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The Socratic Club A club that Lewis founded at Oxford. A forum devoted to general philosophical and spiritual discussion

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  #1  
Old 02-28-2016, 05:57 AM
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Default If only we meant something.

Going through a patch where I crave meaning and some kind of purpose. Christianity offers or even promises a lot. It offers meaning to our lives and talks of great purpose. I would truly love for God to be a real being and for humanity to have a purpose.

There is so much meaninglessness in the world. So much dross and nonsense. Christianity rises above that and shows hope - if only it were a real hope. I guess deep down inside I actually do believe it is a real hope. Yet one which is so far away.
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Old 02-28-2016, 08:31 AM
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I wonder what exactly you mean by 'meaning'.

In any case, your post puts me in mind of something I've read elsewhere...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes ch 1
1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:
2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.
I shan't quote the whole book - you can look it up for yourself. At the risk of spoiling the ending, though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes ch 12
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:54 AM
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Honza, let me tell you something that happened when I was in my twenties.

I was doing lawn-and-garden work outside my house, and was kneeling in the grass, when I saw a beetle crawling around. Mere inches from the beetle, a spider was also crawling around. The beetle never knew how close it was to death just then, and the spider never knew how close it was to lunch. Both creatures rambled off in different directions, and only I, watching from above, saw the whole picture.

Life can appear meaningless to us, because we don't see the whole picture. But God sees it all.

At the time of my beetle-and-spider incident, I was married to my first wife Mary. Her eventual death by cancer would have seemed meaningless to many witnesses; but God made ME aware that He was using her ordeal to root out the last vestiges of unrepented sinful attitudes from deep inside her heart. Thus, when she was called away, she could meet Him without ANY "wood, hay and stubble" remaining on her foundation to be removed.
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Old 03-19-2016, 05:17 AM
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Dear Honza,
It sounds like you are really wrestling with the gap between present reality, and the hope and meaning extended to us through knowing Christ. Your observations remind me of what the apostle Paul said in Romans 8:14-28:

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.


As Paul notes there is a stark contrast between the sufferings of the present world and the glorious hope we have as believers in Christ. It is hard to see the connection sometimes between our needy world and our loving savior and eternal hope. And let's face it, knowing Christ does not exempt you from disappointment and suffering. After all Christ suffered too and knew betrayal and tortuous agony and death. But here is the difference: for those who love God, even the pain and disappointment and suffering in your life can be used by Him to transform you into the person God created you to be. I am not talking pain for pain's sake, but personal transformation and character growth. In Christ life is infused with meaning because God is using even the darks and lights in your life to create a masterpiece.

Does this make sense to you?
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Old 03-19-2016, 11:23 AM
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Hi Benisse; you have hit the nail on the head.

Funnily enough I just wrote this post at a spiritual forum that I visit:

Quote:
Despite all the talk of universal consciousness and so on....I still feel we are not going deep enough. We have left behind a big secret. I understand the principle that I am reality and God - but what we tend to overlook is what happens when God is reality and we are part and parcel of God being God.

My feeling is that we are creatures of love and pride and charisma; beings like Prince Charming and Cinderella. We are Disney like beings or Fairy Tail like beings. We are morale, virtuous and honourable. Nobles - lords and ladies.

In God's world everything is perfect.....we tend to forget the I AM and concentrate upon more important and meeker subjects.

My fear is that the I AM tends to overlook our humanity and personality and just aim for the "I" and the consciousness. But there is so much more to reality than that.

We are CONSCIENTIOUS beings - not just conscious beings. But we have been buried in the profane and spiritually cold material plane.
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Old 03-19-2016, 02:28 PM
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The material plane is not bad through-and-through just by _being_ material. That way lies Gnosticism. That way lies Mary Baker Eddy's "Christian Science" cult (with _both_ words in its name being lies).

Jesus pointedly returned to life in a body which still was physically real and touchable. The material world cannot be our _goal_ in itself, cannot be permitted to possess our hearts; but it is _included_ in God's good creation.
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:26 PM
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Honza, forgive me if I'm wrong, but everytime I poke my head in here it's the same thing. Are you trolling? As someone who has done that myself admittedly, it's fairly easy to spot. I understand considering the topic and what's at stake, everyone here has to assume you're not.


Just remember, everyone here, has your genuine interest at heart.


And if I'm out of line, I apologize.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:00 PM
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I can't, and I don't.

I'm looking over your threads. You're an obvious troll.

You all are wasting your time.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:06 AM
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Read the book of Hebrews. It tells you can't really ever go back to your old ways. You can't just go back to being just a nice guy, because it would all be meaningless if you did and you would know it. You think you are depress now, how would you feeel if you looked at the light of God and then felt you had to reject it because you didn't want to wait for Him to meet some earthly desire that meant nothing in the end.
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