Things you'd never noticed

I always envisioned them moving west along the north side of the river, since Beruna was downstream from Beaversdam (which was indeed at the site of the Beaver's home). That means when they recrossed at Beaversdam, they'd return east. But that was always just an assumption of mine, I never researched it carefully.
 
Well, that would certainly make more sense. Maybe Lewis envisages that the river crossing heads slightly downstream, so when they cross the north bank was on their left, but then they turn upstream to head for Beaversdam. I don't know.

Peeps
 
There seem to be fewer things I hadn't noticed before in VDT, but here's another.

2) The text description of the dragon says that it has "yards of tail", and Pauline Baynes' illustration shows the tail trailing all the way up the valley, so that it is more like a snake with wings. The illustration of Eustace as a dragon also shows a lot of tail coiled up behind him, and the text mentions that he used to "lie curled up like a snake". This is quite different to how I had always pictured dragons, and how they are depicted in the film and TV series.

Peeps
 
3) The Magician was dressed in red (I'd always seen him in blue, for some reason) and he wore a "chaplet of oak leaves" (presumably something like a laurel wreath) on his head.

Peeps
 
4) Now here's a question. The Telmarines had stayed away from the sea, forbade the study of navigation, and knew so little that the seven lords had to travel in a Galmian ship manned with Galmian sailors. Yet within three years of Caspian's accession to the throne, he was able to find a Narnian captain who talks as if he has spent his whole life on the sea. Where did Drinian get his maritime experience? And, indeed, why?

5) Here's another question too. In which direction do the Narnian stars move across the sky? It cannot be east to west, as on Earth, because then the constellations visible in the Eastern Sea would be familiar in Narnia, which they aren't. It is clear that the stars do move, since Lewis notes that the stars had changed position during the night that the travellers sat at Aslan's Table. Moreover, the constellations also change through the year, as it is noted in PC ch 9 that the Ship, Hammer and Leopard are summer constellations. Therefore, I assume that the Narnian stars must move across the sky from north to south (or from south to north) night by night, but also that (as on earth) the stars move slightly faster or slower than the sun, so that over the course of the year the constellations change. Moreover, though the stars move on the north-south line, the sun still crosses the sky from east to west each day.

Another alternative is that the stars do not move in a circular orbit at all, but instead do a kind of dance, which is repeated night by night and year by year so that their positions are predictable (and thereby usable for navigation), but not in regular circular motions as in our world.

Addendum: I've just seen that Ramandu also says that Coriakin had been a star of the southern winter sky, which seems to rule out the south-north rotation hypothesis...

6) According to Ramandu's daughter, the three sleeping lords arrived with others, sailors. So what happened to them? And if they returned to the west, why did no-one know anything about what lay to the east?

Peeps
 
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Ah! great observations and questions. I like your thoughts about the stars. The Telmarines are a strange bunch. They get their name from the land of Telmar, but when I read "Telmarines," what stands out to me is the word MARINE, which is aquatic-related. Yet they hate the sea. But why should they? In Prince Caspian we read:

"Many years ago in that world, in a deep sea of that world which is called the South Sea, a shipload of pirates were driven by storm on an island. And there they did as pirates would: killed the natives and took the native women for wives, and made palm wine, and drank and were drunk, and lay in the shade of the palm trees, and woke up and quarreled, and sometimes killed one another. And in one of these frays six were put to flight by the rest and fled with their women into the center of the island and up a mountain, and went, as they thought, into a cave to hide."

I guess their fear of the sea had more to do with Aslan, who was said to come from the East. Although, many stood and listened to Aslan speak at the end of Prince Caspian.

Yeah, Caspian got to work really quickly. Perhaps he shared some of Doctor Cornelius' books with Drinian, who did nothing but study navigation for three years. Caspian also had Cair Paravel re-built rather quickly, as Trumpkin was said to be there in VDT.
 
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I think it is odd that while Jill was such a great tracker in TLB and knows the stars really well, here in SC she doesn't know her compass directions. :rolleyes:
 
It is wired that she learned the Narnian stars so well. Her travels was in the northern lands in the late fall. If it is like Scotland at that time of year it is mostly overcast, not like clear summer night. I really think it is an inconsistency on Lewis's account. I feel he want to the girls in his later books in a more stronger light. Being able to fight in battles and being more involve in the adventures. But I am not making any broad judgments.
 
2) I'm sure I've seen this before, but it struck me with renewed force just how dumb they must have been not to recognise Rilian earlier. I mean, he even tells them that he has come from another place, but doesn't remember it. And they know the story of him being abducted by a beautiful woman, whom they had earlier met. So even before he was put in the Chair they could have had reasonable grounds for guessing who he was. And even when he invokes the name of Aslan, they still don't guess. Puddleglum incorrectly says that Aslan told them to obey the instruction so given, but in fact the sign was that the one so invoking would be Prince Rilian.

3) Although TSC was published before HHB, HHB was clearly written earlier, since there are two references to its story in TSC. I had heard this before, but had forgotten. Consequently, for those who read in 'publication order', like me, the order should put HHB fourth in the sequence, between VDT and TSC.

Peeps
 
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Hhb

I'm now onto HHB, and here are my first couple of observations.

1) Bree and Hwin must be younger than Shasta. This is because Shasta was born (or discovered by Arsheesh, anyway) in the first year of the Tisroc's reign, the same year in which Narnia was liberated from the White Witch. However, Bree's description of Narnia makes no reference to winter and is clearly a description of conditions in summer. He also refers to Beaversdam, which is presumably a name acquired post-LWW, since it is not used in that book. Therefore, at the very least Bree's capture was more recent than Shasta's birth, if not his own birth.

In our world, at least, horses have a typical lifespan of 25-30 years, so I suppose Shasta could have been about 12, and Bree about 10, and captured at the age of 4 or 5, but in horse-years that would be the equivalent of being captured at 12-15 and held in slavery for 15-18 years, and now being 30.

2) Edmund expresses the confidence that the Splendour Hyaline could sink any Calormene ship that came after her. But by what means would she sink them? Does Lewis envisage that she has guns? That would be most unlikely, since guns do not appear anywhere else in the books.

Come to think of it, the ship itself seems quite out of place in the medieval world that Lewis depicts. In our world, big sailing ships entered the scene in the era of exploration, after guns had been developed. During the era of swords and spears, there were no ocean-going ships, I don't think. The most you would have is the kind of boat you would need to cross the English channel. Viking longboats are perhaps an exception to this, but those are quite different in style to the Splendour Hyaline. And to the Dawn Treader too, come to that.

Peeps
 
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Horses are generally considered mature at the age of four years and some are capable of reproduction as early as 18 months. Remember, wild animal maturity is vastly different than human maturity. Wild animals only have to deal with when they can survive without help, which generally is when they can reproduce.

Cannons were the first battle use of gunpowder. In fact, the first guns are described as hand cannons. Having cannons in use in naval battles, which was the case not only for the Splendor Hyaline, but also for the Archenland vessel that tried to rescue baby Cor isn't too far fetched.

Now what would be odd is that the technology never advanced in the thousand years between the Pevensie's rule and Caspian's rule, especially in the Southern states of Archenland and Calormen as well as the island nations.

MrBob
 
Yes, although whether the rate of maturity of talking animals is the same as that of their dumb counterparts is an interesting question... is it the talking and social aspects of being human that make our childhood and adolescence so much longer than the rest of the animal kingdom, and therefore would talking animals need the same extended period of childhood?

Regarding cannons, I just looked up and saw that the first use of cannons was in the 13th century, which is earlier than I thought. But they were used on land long before being adapted to use at sea. It is therefore odd that in the Narnian world there is no mention of cannons being used on land at all.

Peeps
 
Roman ships were quite large and had rams that could be used against other ships to sink them. I am sure you've seen Ben Hur. Greek and Roman ships went as far as the North Sea, sailed around Britannia, and may have explored the Norwegian Sea. What kept them from going west in the Atlantic is that they had no knowledge of anything of worth that way. Asia was to the East, just as in Columbus' day. No one went West just as no one went East beyond the Lone Islands before Caspian in the CON. The Romans were very superstitious.

The Roman world:

Roman world Karte_Pomponius_Mela.jpg
 
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Yeah, I wondered about that. But Roman ships were galleys rowed by slaves, were they not, whereas the Splendour Hyaline is a sailing ship, which would not take a ram nearly so easily.

Anyway, for observation #3:

3) The text clearly says that Aslan tore Aravis's back with his right claw. So I am wondering how she got 10 scratches. The text seems to rule out the use of the left claw (though it is possible that it was left then right and Shasta only sees the right), and two uses of the right seems unlikely. The exact text says:
HHB said:
And now all three - Aravis, Hwin, and the lion, were almost on top of Shasta. Before they reached him the lion rose on its hind legs, larger than you would have believed a lion could be, and jabbed at Aravis with its right paw. Shasta could see all the terrible claws extended. Aravis screamed and reeled in the saddle. The lion was tearing her shoulders.

Peeps
 
The Splendor Hyaline may have been like the Dawn Treader which was a hybrid of a sailing ship with a galley. In no wind, the Dawn Treader had lines of oars. This could be the same for the Splendor Hyaline as well as the Calormen and Archenlander warships.

As for cannons, unlike as I assumed, there were no specific references of them. The only thing we know they did with gunpowder was make fireworks during the rule of Miraz, which we know predated cannons in China by hundreds of years.

Regarding the ten cuts, Aslan easily could have slashed at Aravis more than once.

MrBob
 
It can be inferred that the Splendor Hyaline was larger that the Dawn Treader and faster. We know that the Golden Years Narnia and Archenland ships were much faster than Calormen ships. The Dawn Treader had only one main mast and a mizzen mast. In order for the Splendor Hyaline to be faster it would need multi mast. I would envision a galleon type ship like this:

galleon ship.jpg

Remember that the crew of the Splendor Hyaline was more experienced and could control a larger ship better than Caspian's crew. The Splendor Hyaline was big enough to hold elegant parties while the Dawn Treader was a simple ship though it had good lines.
 
MrBob said:
Regarding the ten cuts, Aslan easily could have slashed at Aravis more than once.
I'm not disputing that he could have done it, but as I read it that doesn't appear to be what the text is indicating.

Peeps
 
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