Peculiarities of the Russian Language

And the Russian letter _looking_ like our "X" makes the _sound_ of a guttural "KH," as in German "Achtung!"
THE DUTCH G, IT´S THE DUTCH G!! WOOT!:D
Can you pronounce it, CF? Usually English people cannot, and it sounds so funny :D

But i see in this thread definately some similarities between the Russian and the Dutch pronunciation, the ´a´ as in ´ah´ and the ´eu´ sound (from the French), we use those sounds too, they´re completely common. However, i don´t really see similarities in grammar (not many).
 
Yes, I can pronounce gutturals passably.

The probable chief reason for some German words having been adopted into Russian is that Peter the Great, in his campaign to improve Russia academically and technologically, hired many German scholars and artisans to come live in Russia and teach their knowledge and skills to Russians. If you ever see Chekhov's play "THREE SISTERS," you'll see in it an ethnically German character named Tusenbach. Chekhov may have imagined Tusenbach as being descended from one of Tsar Peter's employees.
 
I've made some reference to the difference between vocalized and unvocalized consonants. Many Russian consonants fluctuate between a vocalized and an unvocalized sound, depending on their position in the spelling of a word. That Russian letter which gives the sound of our vocalized consonant V, will sometimes instead sound like an unvocalized F. The Russian version of our vocalized D will sometimes instead sound like an unvocalized T. Vocalized Z can phonetically become unvocalized S....and so on. These changes from vocalized to unvocalized sound are most likely to happen when the consonant is found at the VERY END of a word. This is why you will see many Russian last names written as ending with "-OV," but hear them spoken as if they were spelled ending with "-OFF."
 
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Ready for another oddity? Russian--probably in common with closely-related Bulgarian, actually--is the only phonetic-alphabet language I know of in which a valid WORD can consist of nothing but ONE CONSONANT. These mini-words are prepositions, and as it happens are also visually letters in our own alphabet.

What looks like our letter B, but is pronounced like our V, when used as a preposition, can mean "in," "into," "at," or "on" in the narrow sense of time like "on Tuesday." The letter looking like our C and used for the sound of S, as a preposition, means either "with" or "from"--depending on usage. The letter K (no difference in sound between English and Russian) is a peculiarly specialized preposition, always meaning either "toward" or "to the place of."

To explain that last one a little further:

If I said in Russian that you were walking toward a house, any old house, I could say that you were walking "K" the house. But if I were specifically indicating that it was David Archuleta's house toward which you were walking, since this would be "his place," I would say that you were walking "K" Archuleta himself....even if Archuleta was NOT bodily present in the house at the time you were approaching it.

Sometimes, purely for ease of speaking with no change to the meaning, these three prepositions have an O added, becoming phonetically VO, KO, and SO.
 
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это классно что вы говорите по русский!!! Я тоже!!!

Sorry I'm hopeless at Russian - I think that means 'It's great you speak Russian!!! I can too!!!
 
Yes, W-H-B, what you wrote was understandable--or "PONYATNO." You encourage me to start a more coherent stage in this thread. I am going to begin presenting some building blocks which will make possible the formation of complete sentences.

One thing newbies will need to understand is that, although Russian does have its own form of the verb "to be" (infinitive, containing the "sixty-one," is pronounced approximately "BWIT"), about a hundred years ago Russian usage began to drop off the present-tense form of this. They still have "was" and "will be;" but except for some relatively roundabout ways of expressing it, present-tense "IS" is simply understood without saying it. Accordingly, where we would say "I am in Miami and the weather is fine," the Russian equivalent would _literally_ translate as "I in Miami and weather fine." (They also have no word exactly corresponding to our simple word "the.")

Next, let me add the first verb that I will actually conjugate for you:

идти -- pronounced almost like E.T. as in "Phone home."

This is an imperfective, meaning to move along, especially by walking on foot.
Present-tense conjugation is as follows:

If I, the speaker, am walking, it's pronounced "ee-DOO."

If you, one person who would be addressed as "TU" in Spanish, are walking, it's "eed-YOSH," with a sound like English long O in the stressed syllable (though the letter actually written there is the maddening dotted E which I mentioned in a previous post).

If a plural or formal "you" is/are walking, it's "eed-YOH-tyeh."

If we are walking, it's "eed-YOM" (still the long-O sound).

If he, she or it is walking, it's "eed-YOT" (vowel as above).

If they are walking, it's "ee-DOOT" ("ooh" sound this time, as with ee-DOO).


Now, assuming that I walk quickly, as is good for my blood pressure, with first-person singular pronoun being "Ya," and with a formerly-introduced adverb getting pressed into service, here is a SENTENCE:

Я иду быстро.

Pronounced "Yah ee-DOO BWIS-truh," it means, "I am walking quickly."
 
Now to introduce the antonym of "quickly":

медленно -- pronounced "M'YED-len-nuh," the stressed syllable rhyming with "head." It means "slowly."

Thus, Я иду медленно means "I am walking slowly."


Next, a word about adverbs. In English, adverbs tend to be longer than the related adjectives, because most of our adverbs are formed by ADDING a suffix to an adjective. But it's the opposite in Russian: there, adverbs are more basic and the related adjectives tend to be longer. Russian adjectives also change their endings to conform to the associated nouns in gender and singular-vs.-plural. It's for this reason that I have brought in adverbs ahead of adjectives.
 
Small things can be important; Mr. Lewis wrote something to the effect that "turning point" was not a measurement of size. I will now, therefore, introduce you to The Big Little Three--that is, the three foremost CONJUNCTIONS in the Russian language. They are:


и --pronounced like a Spanish Y, and likewise meaning "and."

но --pronounced "NO," and meaning "but," as in "I want to, but I can't."

а --pronounced "AH," with a meaning sort of halfway between "and" and "but." This conjunction is used when there is a _contrast_ between something and something else, but not a head-on contradiction or total reversal. If in English we said, "Bill is walking quickly but Fred is walking slowly," this would be a case to use "AH," because the actions are different but neither is actually _contradicting_ the fact of the other one occurring. So let's render that very sentence in Russian....


Билл идёт быстро, а Фред идёт медленно.

This is pronounced "Bill id-YOT BWIS-truh, ah Fred id-YOT M'YED-len-nuh."
 
Awhile back, I introduced some one-letter prepositions. Although it is odd that a single _consonant_ should be a word in itself, the oddest Russian preposition in terms of _usage_ is a vowel: У

This vowel, pronounced "OOH," simply does not _have_ any exact counterpart in English or French. A phrase with "OOH somebody" can mean "belonging to the somebody," or "at the home or business place of the somebody," or "as part of the personal experience of the somebody," or even "being taken _away_ from the somebody."
 
Since the use of Russian prepositions ties directly into the use of Russian noun declensions, let me show you an example of how it works with the latest preposition I've introduced. But first a little prepping:

The only form of the basic "to be" verb that survives in _present_ tense in Russian is pronounced approximately as "YEST," and is used only for the _existence_ or presence of something, never to give its qualities. It's as if you could say "THERE IS a bike over there," but you _couldn't_ say "The bike IS RED."

Hold that thought.

Now, the use of the preposition у ("ooh") calls for the associated noun to be declined in what we call "genitive case." Fortunately, genitive declension of a singular noun or name doesn't require very much change; normally, for a masculine noun, you just add an A at the end. Thus, in genitive case the name Frank would become "Franka." Next, we need something for Frank to _have;_ let's give him a book.

Russian for "book" is книга, pronounced "K'NEE-ga." Note that K is _not_ silent.

Now let's put the pieces together in a sentence:

У Франка есть книга.

Lazy, short-cutting teachers will tell you that this sentence means "Frank has a book;" but in order to understand what's going on in the grammar, you need to know that this sentence _literally_ means, "THERE IS a book with, or belonging to, Frank." Strictly speaking, the book, not Frank, is the _subject_ of the sentence.

While I'm about this: do you notice that the third word in the Russian sentence, the one I said would sound like "YEST," ends with what looks like a lower-case letter "b"? That is something I warned you about early in this thread. There are two "letters" in the Russian alphabet which do not have ANY sound of their own, but which _modify_ the sound of a consonant, like the squiggle above a Spanish letter N. This mark looking like a "b" is a "SOFT SIGN," the more-often-used of the two letter-modifiers in Russian. There is also a "HARD SIGN." Each "sign" alters pronunciation in a way which you're just going to have to bring up with a flesh-and-blood teacher who can talk to you audibly.
 
Writing in transliteration for haste and laziness:

An example of the "OOH" preposition meaning that something was taken _away_ from someone would be:

"ON VZYAL U MENYA KNIGU," meaning "He took the book from me."

Note that the second word in that sentence, the verb "vzyal," is all _one_ syllable; Russian is consonant-heavy. Note also the change in the word for "book": from "KNIGA" to "KNIGU." This is because, where "KNIGA" was the _subject_ of the sentence in my previous post, here it is an _object_ which "receives" the action of being taken. This is another declension, called "accusative case."



Grateful_Surrender: if you are a _native_ speaker of Russian, please DON'T hesitate to contribute some teaching of your own! I have no possessive turf-jealousy of this thread as exclusively mine. Come ahead and share your knowledge! (Just bear in mind that most who will see this thread not only don't speak Russian, but have NO understanding of its grammar and syntax except what I've provided up to now.)
 
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Thanks Copper fox but I am not native. I grew up there but was schooled by my parents so I speak russian fluently and can read and write but as for why they say things in the manner that they say them and the structure there of I am not so fluent. but I will contribute as much as I can :D Spaseebo :D
 
Okay, G-S, how about we take on a division of labor? I'm familiar with the _mechanisms_ of language because I've studied several languages in my time; but one thing I never had the chance to do was to GROW UP surrounded by Russian speakers. Therefore, while I continue to expound on "the rules," what say YOU provide some less-formal examples of _conversational_ Russian?
 
Sounds like a deal :D I will get going on that but probably wont post here again till tomorrow.
dasvedanya. eedee s Bogam :D

PS. that is what a lot of the Church members would say at a parting.
 
Okay, let's look at how those words from G-S will appear in Cyrillic alphabet:

До свидания. Иди с Богом.

This farewell expression translates literally as "Until a meeting. Walk with God." It also provides us with illustrations of _two_ noun declensions, one of which I have not explicitly identified up to now (though I hinted at it in an early post).

In the first half, the "DO" is another preposition, meaning "before," often in the sense of covering _all_ the time right up to the moment when the awaited event occurs. This preposition, like the "OOH" preposition, requires its associated noun to be in genitive case. ("DO" here is pronounced more like "DAH," because the O is in "short sound.")

The second half contains the "S" preposition, which I have mentioned before. Used here to mean "with," the single-consonant preposition requires its associated noun to be in what is called "instrumental case." The plainest form (nominative case) of the name for God is "BOG," rhyming with our word "vogue;" in instrumental case it becomes "BOGOM." Instrumental case is tricky; the concept of being "with" a thing or person is only one of its uses.
 
I have mentioned before that Russian is like the Romance languages in having second-person pronouns for a singular-intimate context and a respectful-or-plural context. This extends to the imperatives of their verbs, too.

In the previous post, the imperative of "walk," was given in the familiar form, pronounced "EE-DEE." The formal imperative would be pronounced "EE-DEET-YEH."
 
I saw that Copperfox posted some about formal and informal ways of speech and so I will show the informal and formal greeting.

Friend1 : Preevet, Kak oo tebya dela?
Friend 2: Harasho, a oo tebya?

Person one: Zdrastvoytye, kak oo vas dela?
Person two: Harasho spaseebo, a oo vas?

I am sorry this is not in the Cyrillic alphabet but I don’t have that function on this computer.
 
That's okay, Grateful_Surrender, I'll render them for you. Each of these two exchanges begins with the actual term of greeting. Note that, in the very first word, the second syllable is stressed and so the Russian E gets its "long" sound, thus "preev-YET." Also, let me mention that the very first word in the more formal exchange is one that we learned early in Monterey, in part as an example of how consonant-loaded the written language is....


Intimate Friend 1 : Preevet, Kak oo tebya dela?

Привет, как у тебя дела?

Intimate Friend 2: Harasho, a oo tebya?

Хорошо, а у тебя?


Person one: Zdrastvoytye, kak oo vas dela?

Здравствуйте, как у вас дела?

Person two: Harasho, spaseebo, a oo vas?

Хорошо, спасибо, а у вас?


The word at the end of each initial question is pronounced "de-LAH." It is the plural of a noun which is pronounced "D'YEH-luh," thus almost rhyming with English "yellow." This word refers to business affairs, to particular goings-on, or indeed to practically anything in anyone's life; thus it is used as part of a "How are things with you?" question. "KAK" is the word for "how."

"Tebya" and "vas" respectively are familiar and plural-or-formal second-person pronouns. They are declined in the genitive here because they are coupled with the "ooh" preposition. In the nominative case, as the _subjects_ of sentences, they would be respectively Ты and Вы --using that notorious "sixty-one" vowel.
 
No language exists in isolation from the civilization that uses it. Therefore it is relevant to take peeks into the collective Russian mind. One way to do this is to look at their proverbs and idioms.

One of many colorful Russian expressions consists in referring to the animal characters of a traditional folktale: the Swan, the Crab and the Pike ("pike" as in large fish, not as in long spear). The story in essence is that these three creatures tried to work on a job together, but they were just TOO different from each other to be able to cooperate effectively, even though they were not PURPOSELY working against each other. So a Russian, observing any group of people who are an unlikely match in personalities, may say they are like "LEBED, RAK I SHCHUKA"--the Swan, the Crab and the Pike.
 
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