A New Makeover for the Dawn Treader!

Vote for the changes in forums (poll will close in 90 days).

  • Don't delete the top section (sub forums)

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Delete the top section (sub forums) and all the threads

    Votes: 5 50.0%
  • Delete the top section (sub forums) but leave threads active (state which ones in your post).

    Votes: 3 30.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .

BarbarianKing

Knight of Narnia
Staff member
Knight of the Noble Order
Hello dear TDLrs:

The Dawn Treader Forum is getting a makeover soon in order to encourage and increase participation. We are asking for your thoughts, ideas, and opinions regarding which direction this section should go. Although the final decisions will be made by the moderators, we are eager to hear your ideas and will take them into account.

Somewhere in a secret basement decorated with shiny cans and with plenty of cookies, eggnog, and Cheeze Wiz for snacks, yours truly and all the other mods are considering several ideas for revamping this forum as listed below.

1 – We are considering deleting the Let It Snow, Of Silvers and Sovereigns, and Everything Else Subforums and all their threads.
2 – All future RP threads will be located on the main page of the RP subforum (currently the bottom section), to simplify the layout of the RP section.
3 – RP threads will have to be pre-approved by the mods. Do not start a thread without prior approval or it will be deleted without notice.
4 – Narnia related threads will have priority.
5 – Other RP’s may be approved as long as they are in subjects that are important to this forum such as Lord of The Rings, Literature based (such as Shakespeare Related), The Legend of King Arthur, and Christian or Faith based RPs (Catholic and Protestant both are Christian), and others as the mods and especially admin see fit.
6 – Threads that have the best chance of being approved should have themes of nobility, chivalry, faith in God, triumph over adversity, sacrifice, love for others, and Godly or moral virtues.
7 – We plan to write rules for dealing with problem players
8 – The RP creator will have leeway on how the role play should go, the characters and participants, and will seek help from the mods to deal with problems/issues of concern.

Among the other changes, we fully intend to re-instate the Narnia Pirates Thread. Why, do you ask? When the thread is ready and alive, you’ll know why we are doing this.

We especially would like to hear from those who have role played here before. Let us know what worked and what didn’t and why you stopped participating. If you have anything to say privately, you can send me a PM to keep it confidential.

On a last note, the whole of TDL will most likely be moved to a different sever and will use a different software, as stated by Specter on this post so the changes may not happen until after we have a new home (possibly with a new look).

All the mods and admin value your opinion so please don’t be shy. Post away!
 
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I always thought it was a mistake to confine us ONLY to threads about Narnia. Nonetheless, no one tried harder than I did to keep the last Narnian roleplay going. On the other hand, I was NOT AT ALL sorry to get rid of sexy-vampire nonsense.

I am now too busy writing my Grey Eagle novels to carry any more under-supported roleplays on my back, but I might provide a minor character if someone else gets a good one going. I fondly remember being Merlin when Barbarian King was King Arthur. But it will be absolute POISON if players make the rest of us dependent on them -- then, at a point when the plotline CANNOT continue without them, decide to bail out without warning.

In the event that a roleplay requires player-versus-player combat, I have substantial cause to doubt that we can expect refereeing that pays any attention to what actions would really work. Therefore I have an alternate suggestion:

Suppose each player in a combative roleplay creates TWO characters, and secretly decides which one of them is more effective as a fighter. The player tells this to no one else except the creator or judge of the roleplay. Then, in the event of a combat occurring, the "weaker" character can be treated as expendable -- a red shirt, as Trekkies put it. With a little creativity on the part of the "dungeonmaster," there can be real-seeming battles, with casualties, yet a limit is placed on how much "bereavement" a player suffers.

Depending on many circumstances, I might be willing to control several VILLAIN characters, and have a secret agreement with the thread-creator that all of my villains EXCEPT one can be defeated by any good guy who tackles them.
 
First of all, we are going to discourage people from controlling "several" characters in one role-play because that makes a story too convoluted and takes away from the "fun" component of the RP. I believe that for a Role Playing Game to be successful, the primary focus should be for everyone to enjoy it and be able to post what their characters are doing without adhering to so many rules and/or combat "referees."

I know for a fact that the RPGs that were successful in the past were those where no one was told what to do by other players or mods, instead all created a story with colorful characters that were entertaining and fun. I remember that the creator of the thread would post one or two rules and then everyone posted away. Before you knew it, the thread had 10, 15, 20 or more pages of post with people just enjoying themselves posting imaginative scenes for their players.

Now, I understand that this type of RPing will create inconsistencies, contradictions, and unbelievable scenes that should and could not happen. Also, this is where we had problems in the past where people would create silly Role Plays just for the sake of making a new thread (Like one guy who created an RP thread and said: "I myself will not participate but you guys can go ahead an pretend...." Yeah, that's not gonna happen) but with no higher purpose whatsoever. But I also believe that the players are mature enough to solve these inconsistencies and problems on their own, or not, whatever they chose. If real problems arise, then that's why we mods are here to make sure everything is kept within the guidelines of the forum and the Dawn Treader's rules.
 
Although I am totally inexperienced when it comes to rpg, I like the idea of focusing on themes that were important to the Chronicles such as:
"nobility, chivalry, faith in God, triumph over adversity, sacrifice, love for others, and Godly or moral virtues."

I understand Copperfox's concern for situations in which the flow of the story stops because the player behind some character becomes too busy to post. This situation definitely should be addressed in the ground rules or even in a problem-shooting thread (along with how to ensure balance of creativity between all players).
 
I always thought it was a mistake to confine us ONLY to threads about Narnia. Nonetheless, no one tried harder than I did to keep the last Narnian roleplay going.

I really enjoyed the "With Sword, Claws and Teeth Bared" game. Unfortunately, by the time we reached "The Battle of Beruna" there were too few of us remaining for it to be practical to continue. Moreover, my character, the evil Minotaur Zamron, had fled north after the death of the White Witch, whom he served, so it would have been very difficult for him to interact with other characters, although I considered a possible course of action.
 
Perhaps a contract signed in blood, promising that if any player disappears from action for more than one week, that player WILL NOT complain if the thread creator TAKES OVER the indispensable character long enough to make that character perform ONE ACTION that clears the way for the others to be able to continue?

And, of course, the problem of poorly-done umpiring of combat would disappear if there ISN'T any combat. For instance, we could have a roleplay about people attending a fantasy convention, in which the closest thing to an actual fight between characters would be an occasional squabble or hissy-fit (by the characters, I mean, not by the players).
 
Perhaps a contract signed in blood, promising that if any player disappears from action for more than one week, that player WILL NOT complain if the thread creator TAKES OVER the indispensable character long enough to make that character perform ONE ACTION that clears the way for the others to be able to continue?

And, of course, the problem of poorly-done umpiring of combat would disappear if there ISN'T any combat. For instance, we could have a roleplay about people attending a fantasy convention, in which the closest thing to an actual fight between characters would be an occasional squabble or hissy-fit (by the characters, I mean, not by the players).

I'm not sure that's a good idea to take over someone's character to keep the story going. Other options should be explored such as moving on to another arc of the story or just wait. I know for a fact that when people are enjoying the RP, they usually are present to continue with the story. Besides, RP threads should be no different than threads in other sections that have a period of high activity to a period of no activity and then back again. I don't think anyone should try to artificially make the thread go and go and go and go in (for lack of a better phrase) "an unnatural" way.

And there have been RP's where there are no battles at all, at least not between the players/characters. I know of one such thread in existence right now that does not have people (at least not that I have read, but I haven't read the whole thing) battling each other in any way. So while it is unlikely that such a thread be created or approved, it is possible to go to a convention (in an RP) and just hang out with your friends.

For RP's that require battles, such as Narnians against the evil armies, rules would have to be devised, of course, but we already know which army was on the losing side, whether you RP LWW or TLB.
 
I'm not sure that's a good idea to take over someone's character to keep the story going. Other options should be explored such as moving on to another arc of the story or just wait.

And wait, and wait, and wait.

B-King, I've always enjoyed any roleplay that you were part of; but you could have nine out of ten players loving it, and ONE could still roadblock it by refusing to write one little sentence at a crucial point. I wish you all success in outmaneuvering such problems. If I do join a new thread, then unless I fall down dead in the real world (or my wife or my mother or my daughter does), I pledge that no such roadblock will ever be MY doing.
 
I'm not sure that's a good idea to take over someone's character to keep the story going. Other options should be explored such as moving on to another arc of the story or just wait.

And wait, and wait, and wait.


If the RPGs have dedicated role players then they will not inexplicably disappear. If they know they're disappearing they should give warning beforehand and request what they would like the players to do in their absence. If they disappear due to a crisis it would be kind to wait and ask what they would like you to do.

If they are not a dedicated player then that is another problem entirely that is probably not going to be helped by taking control of their character without permission.
 
Which is why I suggested an arrangement of _giving_ consent ahead of time.

For my own part, I have another idea for my character if I join a roleplay. Wherever possible, as I post, I'll have my character _thinking_ in advance what he _will_ do if something happens. For instance: "If there's an ogre around that corner, I'll attack it with my sword." Then I, as my actual self, will positively _plead_ for everyone to assume, if my actual self is forced to be absent, that my character _does_ act as he was intending, so that I _won't_ be the cause of the RPG thudding to a halt.
 
I vote delete the top sections...

I'm not involved enough in any rpg to have a say either way on the actual threads.

Have many old members expressed interest in returning for the sake of the pirate threads? Because if we only get one or two, it might not make much of a difference...

Excited to see the new changes.
 
We especially would like to hear from those who have role played here before. Let us know what worked and what didn’t and why you stopped participating.

I wonder if this is how the Pevensies felt when they were first called back to Narnia... :p

First of all, it should be noted that one of the reasons I didn't continue to participate is simply because I was growing up. When all these changes were happening to the Dawn Treader, my life was also changing significantly. In 2009 I finished college, got engaged AND got married (to Machiathemarshwiggle, for those who are keeping score at home). Then we didn't get internet until last year. That alone makes it difficult to RP effectively. Anyway, that's one reason (excuse, whatever).

As for the more technical reason why I honestly had little interest in the Dawn Treader overhaul....

While I fully understood why the mods/Specter felt the DT needed more...focus (as opposed to the half dozen HP threads, various vampire, random "we're all in HS threads", and so on) and was not going to make it any more difficult for them, it seemed to me that the success (not to mention popularity) of the pirates could have been carried over to the new format. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but the new DT seemed over-structured and rather stuffy. (i.e. "We'll be playing as though we are in LWW and will follow its structure.") BK, not to call you out, but I also noticed a thread you started that had a Roman Numeral outline of the events that occur from beginning to end. Which means: When the story's over, it's over. When we get past this point, there's no going to back. If something isn't working, we just plow through it anyway. Some people may love that style of RP, but since I'm explaining why I wasn't interested in the new DT, threads like that are why.

Yeah, that just doesn't work for me. Which brings me to my point: Why was pirates so much different? Well, I think there are many reasons but the main one for me is structure.

While the FF (The five "leaders" of the pirates) would often carry on long PM conversations as to where we were going to go and what we were going to do, our "plot" boiled down to: "We are pirates who were transported to Narnia by way of the Bermuda Triangle and therefore have powers of teleportation. We sail around Narnia having adventures." Sound ridiculous? It was. For those who are new or those who have forgotten, we were Duffers first. None of us had any real interest in RPing, not realizing that that was exactly what we were doing. In fact, we were a bit outraged when the mods moved us over to the Dawn Treader. (What?? We aren't an RPG! We're just teleporting pirates! Wait, did my post count just quadruple? Maybe this isn't so bad after all... ;):p)

We did eventually "structure" ourselves a bit more, though by way of adding in a few rules and limitations and basic storylines. Two important notes here, though:

First, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the rather defining role PrinceOfTheWest played in our making the successful acclimation from Duffers to RPers. Our posts would be one or two sentences of RPing nonsense, and PotW would come in with his "Morning Reports", long, in-depth, entertaining reports as to the various things that were happening. Those encouraged us to not only make our posts longer and more interesting, but to actually discourage new pirates from coming and posting something like, "Billy walked up on deck and waited for someone to talk to him." Because of that, it was possible to create rather intricate scenes and stories on the fly.

Also, when we did write storylines, they were very loose. Imagine a family deciding that they are going to spend a month traveling across the US, but all they know is that they are starting in Maine and ending in southern California. There are a whole lot of roads to chose from and things to do before reaching the end of their trip. And that's just one vacation!​

The other important note is that if we did end up on a storyline that just wasn't working, we quickly abandoned it and either pretended that it never happened or we just devised some quick way to get ourselves out of it. I'm still not sure why some storylines worked and others didn't, but nothing killed the post counts quicker than a dull story.​

Structure is not just with stories, but also with characters. Two thoughts on characters as well:

First, I'm not sure how many of the new DT threads allowed canon characters, but personally, I'm not a fan of people playing canon characters. For one, I think it takes a lot of cheek, especially if you're playing a Lewis character on a Lewis forum. I think added canon characters creates a difficulty in that both the person playing them as well as the other characters interacting with them have to be incredibly careful not to defame them at all. I think if a canon character is very occasionally needed to do something in the story (i.e. Aslan forgiving someone an offense), it can work if done carefully. But that's just my personal feeling about canon characters.​

The other note I'd like to make about characters is that we cherished ours. Maybe other RPGs were the same, I don't know, but in pirates, our characters were us and we were them. We might occasionally bring in an occasional secondary character, (Fish at one point in time "adopted" a little girl who seemed the only survivor when her village was attacked) but these secondary characters' purposes were to add depth to our main characters. I think when you choose to play as only one character, you essentially ARE them. Perhaps a little less so if you are the villain, but I know I rarely had to "think" about what Fish would do or say in a situation because I am Fish and Fish is me. Or at least, Fish is how I might be in an alternate universe. Just like any story (be it a book, TV show, movie, etc) will fall short if it doesn't have well-developed, interesting characters, so will an RPG.​

A few comments on the other posts:

Copperfox said:
In the event that a roleplay requires player-versus-player combat, I have substantial cause to doubt that we can expect refereeing that pays any attention to what actions would really work.

(Emphasis on CF's post is mine)

Is it really the end of the world if fantastic things happen? We were fairly good at policing ourselves against "god-modding" (we did have one player who repeatedly insisted on god-modding and needed the mods to step in), but if two people were dueling and their characters were doing fantastic things, as long as the players didn't have a problem, why should it matter? Granted, much of our fighting was friendly dueling, but even when it wasn't, we were not going to kill or seriously maim other people's characters. The few times we actually went to battle, it was always against enemies that we would make up on the spot and would each write our characters' own individual duels within that battle. So there again we could write our characters doing as realistic or fantastic dueling as we wanted. (Sometimes I think we'd write something particularly fantastic just for the entertainment value of it!)

Now, the other thought with that, if two characters are dueling and one is being a little too ridiculous, the other person can post something ooc and ask them to tone it down a bit. If the first person doesn't, then the second person can simply have their character walk away and again post ooc that anything the first character to theirs is void.

GG said:
If the RPGs have dedicated role players then they will not inexplicably disappear.

With this debate, I have to agree with GG. Pirates had a multitude of characters, some of who posted all the time, some who posted occasionally, and some who would waver between being really active and hardly active. But it worked out that was a natural correlation between a person's involvement in the thread and their importance to whichever storyline we had going at the moment. Again, because our structure was something that rarely planned for one certain character to do one certain thing at one certain time, we rarely (never?) had to deal with days of "downtime" if that one character disappears. This is probably also because that in the several years pirates went on, I can only remember one reasonably-involved character who inexplicably disappeared. (Our ship's cook, Apollo.)

(I have one more point to make, but apparently my post is too long. The rest will come shortly... :D)
 
(Sorry for the double post, but my response was too long to fit on one.)

BK said:
I'm not sure that's a good idea to take over someone's character to keep the story going.

I would like to make one point about "taking over" people's characters. I think there is a difference between using a person's character in a way that allows you to write a plot exposition as long as you are not developing that character at all. For example:
Fish ran up on deck and found the Captain yet again showing Headless Bill (a random filler character any of us could use) how to tie a square knot.

"Cap'n, ye've gotta see what I just discovered on the charts!" Fish shouted. "IOWW, ye'd better come, too!" she added, motioning to the navigator.

Exchanging a quick glance, the two followed Fish below deck.

"Look," Fish said excited as she pointed toward the lower right corner, "Do ye see the................"​

And from there I would go on to post whatever long and involved thing I had discovered. This is an example of using while not developing another person's character. There is absolutely nothing odd or out-of-character about the ship's captain and navigator being interested in what one of the other leaders has found. It makes perfectly logical sense that they'd follow Fish.

It would, however, be inappropriate for me to post something like this:

Fish ran up on deck and found the Captain yet again showing Headless Bill (a random filler character any of us could use) how to tie a square knot.

"Cap'n, ye've gotta see what I just discovered on the charts!" Fish shouted. "IOWW, ye'd better come, too!" she added, motioning to the navigator.

"Fish, I don't care what the heck ye found!" the captain said. "And what are ye doing going through my charts?!" She walked up to carpenter and shoved her to the ground.​

Once again I'm using QA48's character, but this time in a way that develops her and puts her in an unnecessary negative light, not to mention will probably cause some future rift between Fish and her Captain.

Going back to the first example, some might ask me why I didn't just wait until QA48 and IOWW didn't post themselves that they were following Fish down. If they were online, I probably would have ended my post with Fish coming up on deck. It's more fun to play off their reactions, anyway. But if they weren't online, then Fish is stuck frozen until they come on and respond, and once they do respond, they are stuck until I come back on and explain what Fish found. It's much faster, easier, and makes for a more entertaining story if I can just post something nice and long, even if it involves "moving" someone else's character to a different place.

Lossëndil said:
Have many old members expressed interest in returning for the sake of the pirate threads? Because if we only get one or two, it might not make much of a difference...

I know Machia and I are interested in coming back to at least get a new generation of pirates off to a good start. I imagine Twilight and QA48 will be interested, too. Currently I have the good fortune to be a housewife so I should have a reasonable amount of time to dedicate to getting the new pirates started. However, Machia and I are starting the house search, and somewhere around New Year's our lives are going to be shaken up with the arrival of our first baby, so I can't guarantee how active we'll be in the long-term. (Which begs the question, just what does the offspring of a fish and a marshwiggle look like??? :eek:;)) But.....once a pirate of Narnia, always a pirate of Narnia... :cool:
 
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Thanks for the lengthly post(s), Fish. I have a much better idea what pirates looked like now. I only have vague memories of watching on the sidelines and not entirely sure what was or was not allowed. I shied away from rpgs in general, so once the pirate thread was moved I kind of stopped paying much attention.

Has anyone discussed the possibility of moving the pirates thread back to Dufferland? What difference would or wouldn't it make?
 
Has anyone discussed the possibility of moving the pirates thread back to Dufferland? What difference would or wouldn't it make?

If the mods wanted to leave the DT alone but bring Pirates back, then I think we would fit better in Dufferland. However, as Pirates really is more of an RPG and I'm pretty sure the point of all this is that the DT is dead and is essentially getting "re-overhauled", then it would make more sense to let Pirates stay in the DT and do its part in breathing new life into the RPGs.
 
Thanks for chiming in Liz and Lossy!

I tol' you on FB, congrats to you and Machia. So exciting!

I do not have any experience in RPG'ing but I know the mods who do will take note, and I expect PoTW would be glad to see a revitalization of pirates, especially.

XO
 
Thanks, Inkspot! :)

Have many old members expressed interest in returning for the sake of the pirate threads? Because if we only get one or two, it might not make much of a difference...

I agree that if we tried to bring the Pirates thread back and pick up again exactly where we left off... 3?.... years ago it probably wouldn't make too much of a difference. While I'm sure a handful of the old pirates would come back and be active, I would want the new thread to focus on adding as many new people as possible, in essence starting over with a "new crew", in addition to whatever "old pirates" want to return. Welcoming new people has always been a huge part of the Pirate RPG "culture" and I would hope that would continue in any new thread. :)

That's what would be most exciting to me about having the pirates thread. Sure, It'd be awesome to see some of the old characters coming back, but I'd love to welcome new members and some new pirates and see what they can bring to the extensive TDL Pirate lore. Because in the Pirate RPG everyone was free to add things to the storyline, every single pirate in one way or another added to the overall story. I would want any new thread to be a "brand new chapter" in the Narnian Pirates history, not just an exact continuation of the old story :D

(P.S. I also have some thoughts on the "People holding up the RPG by disappearing" dicussion. Hopefully I'll get time to post those later.)

EDIT: Liz tells me it was 5 years ago since the Pirates were active... :eek: Now I feel really old...
 
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Fish said:
Also, when we did write storylines, they were very loose. Imagine a family deciding that they are going to spend a month traveling across the US, but all they know is that they are starting in Maine and ending in southern California. There are a whole lot of roads to chose from and things to do before reaching the end of their trip. And that's just one vacation!

Couldn't resist... (This joke probably goes over a lot of people's heads).
 

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>> Is it really the end of the world if fantastic things happen?

Since I do roleplays which are _about_ fantasy, I am hardly going to object to fantastic events in a fantasy. I'm trying not to name names and give details; but sometimes an event is played, and even judged, in a way that is _equally_ as absurd in a fantasy story as if it were in a non-fantasy story.

I'll describe a situation _analogous_ to what has irritated me in the past.

Suppose, in a roleplay, two of your typical ultra-Amazon superwomen are having a swordfight to the death. Each woman is determined to win, indeed _needs_ to win, for each woman has something even more precious than her own life riding on the outcome of this fight. Neither one has any spell on her to make her give up or make her commit mistakes; neither has either one been given any special magic that makes her immune to the results of a foolish tactic. Although it's a fantasy, for this _particular_ scene it has been established that a regular _physical_ combat is happening.

Now, suppose that one player, for some odd reason, declares that her character leans back to whirl her sword around _behind_ her for twenty or thirty turns, claiming that this is a wind-up that will result in an unstoppable blow. The other player, naturally, reacts as _anyone_ would react, fantasy or no fantasy: she says, "I don't wait for my opponent to finish this long wind-up; I thrust into her immediately!"

The second swordswoman should automatically win the fight, because the first one made a virtually suicidal error. The story being a fantasy is completely irrelevant at this point. So, if the judge awards _victory_ to the character who did something that would _never_ work, that is flawed judging. And I have encountered something similar to that.

When I joined the last Narnian roleplay, the first character I created was intentionally designed by me to be a nerd and a weakling: a timid Satyr called Exeter the Expendable. I did this in order that I _wouldn't_ be part of any competitions of "I'm _twice_ as omnipotent as you are!" I figured to let others be tough; I would be there to provide someone they were tougher than. So no, it is not a matter of me pouting if I can't be 100 percent invincible; it's a matter of recognizing that _logic_ in a roleplay combat helps it to be fair.
 
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