Aslan's Reference To Male and Female Characters...

Lucy Fan

Lucy Fan

New member
I am almost finished with this book in my new purchase of the book series with colored pictures...wow what a different experience. Anyway, Aslan refers to any male and female characters, whether they are human or animal as his son and daughter. Why is that? I would figure that would be something God would say and since Aslan represents Jesus it seems wrong. Granted I am not religious so maybe I am wrong in my thinking.

Also, it's weird that in the animated version of LWW Aslan refers to the children as Sons of Adam and Daughters of Eve. I know it's a completely different book.

Anyway, just curious--thanks. :)
 
Because Aslan represents jesus, who is in a manner of speaking on the same bar as god. I don't agree that they are one and the same, but in the context of Aslan they are.
 
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When Aslan says "Son of Adam" and "Daughter of Eve," this refers to humans being ACTUALLY DESCENDED FROM Adam and Eve. This reference, furthermore, is one of the ways in which Mister Lewis made it clear that he WAS NOT making up some OTHER omnipotent God. Remember that in "Magician's Nephew," Aslan showed the ability to create SOMETHING FROM NOTHING. Only the actual God has, or ever could have, that power. Thus, Mister Lewis asserted simultaneously that Aslan IS Jesus, and that JESUS is Almighty God.

Like every Christian, Lewis believed that no God exists anyplace or anytime, EXCEPT the God of the Bible; and that this God exists in the Three Persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Lewis would never have knowingly misled his readers into believing that there could be ADDITIONAL Gods if you could just look in other dimensions. Thus, Aslan IS NOT merely "someone who slightly resembles a hint of an allegory of a parable of a likeness of a suggestion of a character vaguely like Jesus." Aslan IS JESUS, the same Jesus Who lived in our history, merely assuming a different external form. If this were not so, Lewis would not have had Aslan say in "Dawn Treader" that He was also present in our world.

To say that Aslan is omnipotent, AND can be found in our world, but is NOT the God of the Bible, WOULD be to say that someone else in our world is ALSO omnipotent God BESIDES the God of the Bible. No Christian would ever give people even a slight encouragement to believe that!

Thus, if you pay attention to what LEWIS HIMSELF said, Aslan is Jesus Christ, peer-ee-od. And since He is Jesus, when He addresses characters as "My son" or "My daughter," this refers to the relationship that is created by the new birth in Jesus.
 
Copperfox said:
When Aslan says "Son of Adam" and "Daughter of Eve," this refers to humans being ACTUALLY DESCENDED FROM Adam and Eve. This reference, furthermore, is one of the ways in which Mister Lewis made it clear that he WAS NOT making up some OTHER omnipotent God. Remember that in "Magician's Nephew," Aslan showed the ability to create SOMETHING FROM NOTHING. Only the actual God has, or ever could have, that power. Thus, Mister Lewis asserted simultaneously that Aslan IS Jesus, and that JESUS is Almighty God.

Like every Christian, Lewis believed that no God exists anyplace or anytime, EXCEPT the God of the Bible; and that this God exists in the Three Persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Lewis would never have knowingly misled his readers into believing that there could be ADDITIONAL Gods if you could just look in other dimensions. Thus, Aslan IS NOT merely "someone who slightly resembles a hint of an allegory of a parable of a likeness of a suggestion of a character vaguely like Jesus." Aslan IS JESUS, the same Jesus Who lived in our history, merely assuming a different external form. If this were not so, Lewis would not have had Aslan say in "Dawn Treader" that He was also present in our world.

To say that Aslan is omnipotent, AND can be found in our world, but is NOT the God of the Bible, WOULD be to say that someone else in our world is ALSO omnipotent God BESIDES the God of the Bible. No Christian would ever give people even a slight encouragement to believe that!

Thus, if you pay attention to what LEWIS HIMSELF said, Aslan is Jesus Christ, peer-ee-od. And since He is Jesus, when He addresses characters as "My son" or "My daughter," this refers to the relationship that is created by the new birth in Jesus.
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I could add my own comments, but I would basically just be paraphrasing everything you just said (but still no clearer than you've already made it!). Yes, Aslan is Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is God. "For there are three that bear record in Heaven and these three ARE ONE."
 
I always thought that Jesus and God were two different people (or beings, not sure which is correct). I can see how how Aslan would be both God and Jesus now when CopperFox mentions how Aslan created something out of nothing, by creating Narnia from darkness. That was one of my favorite parts in the book. I feel so naive sometimes, but I haven't been educated in religion like most of you people but I feel like I'm learning more and more.

I appreciate the information. :)
 
Yes, the Trinity is a mystery - it isn't irrational, but a reality that cannot completely be comprehended by reason. For us, one person = one being. But God is three Divine Persons in one being. Thus it is accurate to say the Father is different than the Son who is different than the Holy Spirit, but they are all the One God. Or, to put things in Narnian terms, the Emperor-Over-Sea is not Aslan, but they are both God in that world.

Question: where is the Holy Spirit in the Narnia world? I have my own thoughts, but I'd like to hear what others think.
 
Nothing in the Narnian world is _explicitly_ identified as the Holy Spirit. Some say that when Aslan breathes His power into people, _that_ is really the presence of the Spirit (as per Hebrew ruakh and Greek pneuma, each meaning both physical air and immaterial spirit).


Lucy Fan said:
I always thought that Jesus and God were two different people (or beings, not sure which is correct). I can see how how Aslan would be both God and Jesus now when CopperFox mentions how Aslan created something out of nothing, by creating Narnia from darkness. That was one of my favorite parts in the book. I feel so naive sometimes, but I haven't been educated in religion like most of you people but I feel like I'm learning more and more.
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Lucy Fan, dear heart, if you were to hear the _ridiculous_ notions >I< imagined before I got to know God--!! :rolleyes:

G.K. Chesterton, Mister Lewis himself, and other Christian thinkers have explained that, by _containing_ three parallel personalities _within_ His own being, God could and did enjoy the benefits of _companionship_ even before He created anything. I believe that this is the reason why it pleases God to be a Trinity.

All three Persons have one perfect nature and one righteous will, but They are _just_ separate enough to be able to _interact_ with each other -- to have what someone calls "the I and Thou." To the extent that any Person within the Trinity distinctly takes the lead or originates a plan, it is the Father, while the Son and the Holy Spirit are "distinguished" by having Their own specialties for dealing with the created universe. The most easily pointed out specialty for the Holy Spirit is having inspired the prophets and the Bible authors. The obvious specialty of the Son is -- having become a Son to the Father in human form, _besides_ having already had a "son-like" relationship with the Father in all previous eternity.

If God were not "compartmented" in this way, He could never have been entirely _inside_ the human identity of Jesus of Nazareth. Since God sustains the universe, He needed to keep on existing _outside_ of Jesus' human life as well as _inside_ that life. But because God the Son is to an extent separate from the Father and the Holy Spirit, He _could_ submerge His _own_ God-nature inside the experience of _being_ Jesus Christ, leaving the other two Persons to keep the universe running. This in turn means that when He died on the Cross, God-the-Son-a.k.a.-Jesus experienced a _real_ death. If God had not been able to "fit" Himself _completely_ inside human life, He would _not_ have truly died, and would not have needed a Resurrection.

Muslims have a big problem with Jesus being God Incarnate, because they get the mistaken idea that Christians are somehow saying that there's more than one God, or that someone who was _only_ a man could then _become_ God. It really would be blasphemy to claim that; but that _isn't_ what Christianity teaches. What Christianity teaches is that God the Son _already_ was part of the total being of the One God, and then _also_ became a man.
 
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One thing to note which I find interesting on this topic: Did you know that people are in a sense a trinity themselves? Not that we are trinity in the sense that God is, but there are three components to our existence, and they are: The spirit, the soul, and the body. For a long time I thought that the spirit and the soul were the same, but a wise older Christian explained to me that while our spirit is our essential being and existence, our soul is more like the mind and emotion element of our spiritual existence. Then of course there's the body that our spirit and soul are inside, but that part is pretty self-explanatory.
 
Actually, you're right, CF: Aslan's Breath is the expression of the presence of the Holy Spirit. Read through the Chronicles and see where Aslan breathes, and the effects.

I don't know about the rest of your explanation - I'm pretty certain that's incorrect in places. For instance, the Persons of the Trinity are not "just separate enough" - they are more distinct beings than you and I. And the Second Person of the Trinity did not "submerge" His divinity into the human named Jesus - He was fully human and fully divine at the same time, having two complete natures. (see the Chalcedonian Creed for further description.) But that's not what this thread is about, so we needn't go into it.
 
PrinceOfTheWest said:
Actually, you're right, CF: Aslan's Breath is the expression of the presence of the Holy Spirit. Read through the Chronicles and see where Aslan breathes, and the effects.

I don't know about the rest of your explanation - I'm pretty certain that's incorrect in places. For instance, the Persons of the Trinity are not "just separate enough" - they are more distinct beings than you and I. And the Second Person of the Trinity did not "submerge" His divinity into the human named Jesus - He was fully human and fully divine at the same time, having two complete natures. (see the Chalcedonian Creed for further description.) But that's not what this thread is about, so we needn't go into it.
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No worries, Prince. No deviation in theology was intended, only an effort to be understandable for the benefit of persons lacking a theological education. I only used the word "submerged" as a way of expressing that Jesus DID get all the way inside being human, NOT saying that in any way He ceased to be fully God. And I only used the phrase "just separate enough" in an attempt to prevent the uninstructed from inferring that I was advocating "three gods." My Trinitarian doctrine, as far as I can tell, is actually the SAME as yours.

Meanwhile, Sir Tom said:

One thing to note which I find interesting on this topic: Did you know that people are in a sense a trinity themselves? Not that we are trinity in the sense that God is, but there are three components to our existence, and they are: The spirit, the soul, and the body. For a long time I thought that the spirit and the soul were the same, but a wise older Christian explained to me that while our spirit is our essential being and existence, our soul is more like the mind and emotion element of our spiritual existence. Then of course there's the body that our spirit and soul are inside, but that part is pretty self-explanatory.

Let us quickly disarm the objection "You don't HAVE a soul, you ARE a soul." It's true that we can be referred to as "being" souls, but there is also the example of the Psalmist calling on "his" soul to bless the Lord.

Imagining soul and spirit to be the same is a very harmful mistake. The soul -- call it the mind -- is indeed MORE THAN the instinct-controlled body; but it still is EARTHLY, focused on "local" concerns of the present life. Too many unbelievers flatter themselves that they are "being spiritual" if they enjoy ANYTHING that rises above the grunting-pig level, such as appreciating the beauty of a sunrise. But they're not being spiritual, they're only being soulish. The beauty of a sunrise is not an answer to the questions of sin and redemption.
 
Copperfox said:
Nothing in the Narnian world is _explicitly_ identified as the Holy Spirit. Some say that when Aslan breathes His power into people, _that_ is really the presence of the Spirit (as per Hebrew ruakh and Greek pneuma, each meaning both physical air and immaterial spirit).




Lucy Fan, dear heart, if you were to hear the _ridiculous_ notions >I< imagined before I got to know God--!! :rolleyes:

G.K. Chesterton, Mister Lewis himself, and other Christian thinkers have explained that, by _containing_ three parallel personalities _within_ His own being, God could and did enjoy the benefits of _companionship_ even before He created anything. I believe that this is the reason why it pleases God to be a Trinity.

All three Persons have one perfect nature and one righteous will, but They are _just_ separate enough to be able to _interact_ with each other -- to have what someone calls "the I and Thou." To the extent that any Person within the Trinity distinctly takes the lead or originates a plan, it is the Father, while the Son and the Holy Spirit are "distinguished" by having Their own specialties for dealing with the created universe. The most easily pointed out specialty for the Holy Spirit is having inspired the prophets and the Bible authors. The obvious specialty of the Son is -- having become a Son to the Father in human form, _besides_ having already had a "son-like" relationship with the Father in all previous eternity.

If God were not "compartmented" in this way, He could never have been entirely _inside_ the human identity of Jesus of Nazareth. Since God sustains the universe, He needed to keep on existing _outside_ of Jesus' human life as well as _inside_ that life. But because God the Son is to an extent separate from the Father and the Holy Spirit, He _could_ submerge His _own_ God-nature inside the experience of _being_ Jesus Christ, leaving the other two Persons to keep the universe running. This in turn means that when He died on the Cross, God-the-Son-a.k.a.-Jesus experienced a _real_ death. If God had not been able to "fit" Himself _completely_ inside human life, He would _not_ have truly died, and would not have needed a Resurrection.

Muslims have a big problem with Jesus being God Incarnate, because they get the mistaken idea that Christians are somehow saying that there's more than one God, or that someone who was _only_ a man could then _become_ God. It really would be blasphemy to claim that; but that _isn't_ what Christianity teaches. What Christianity teaches is that God the Son _already_ was part of the total being of the One God, and then _also_ became a man.
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I love it when you do that, the dear heart part, because it's what Aslan does and when you say that it's almost like Aslan speaking. :D I promise I read everything you said though not just that. I just wanted to comment on that.
 
In the Heaven Is For Real book, the book that was made before the movie...Colton tells his Dad that God is three people and I think he said one of the people is blue, I don't know why that is but I always thought of God as one person (like a combination of the trinity).

One some days when it's nice (sun is shining, blue sky, green grass) I stop and think how beautiful it is and how heaven is like 1,000 times better I cannot imagine that, but look forward to it.

 
Dear heart, I'm glad you like the "dear heart;" and yes, I remembered how Aslan says that.

If it helps, think of the Trinity as God's way of doing Himself a favor. Having three awarenesses inside Himself enables Him to experience one thing He could never experience when relating with His creation: conversations BETWEEN EQUALS.
 
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