Barbaric Realities in a Modern World

[The Half-Blood Prince]

I was just thinking today about how many terrible issues there are in the world, in such a modern and more advanced setting. There is abortion, there is rape and murder and theft, there are cases like the Schiavo case, which is currently being discussed, there is such injustice in the judicial systems...the list goes on and on. I was just wondering if other people are bothered by such a vast amount of problems in our world today.

[Elf Of The Grey Havens]

Barbarism in the modern world...
Hm...
*thinks*

[EveningStar]

The term you are reaching for is THEODICY. How can bad things happen to good people if God is good?

I have an answer to that but it may make your ears burn.

In the beginning when God created the world and put Man in it, he knew the future and therefore created the world knowing full well the price for making it a liveable place would be an inevitable march to the Cross.

Therefore we cannot speak of theodicy in terms of "We fell from the originally intended grace so nasty things happen to us due to Adam and Eve."

Rather we must consider that we were provided with immune systems, blood clotting factors, and common sense and turned loose to replace ourselves when we wear out and avoid walking off cliffs. But when we die, our immortal spirits come with the experiences we learn back to the God from which we came and experience eternity.

I call the chances the agreements of physical life in a spiritual universe:

1) Rather than God choosing who would reproduce, we all have a chance to marry and have children. Some do, others do not.

2) Rather than being given a fixed number of years and then to die regardless, we may live to be quite old or we might even die in infancy, but we all have a chance. That keeps the world from being carpeted with people within 10 generations and use limited resources of this planet.

3) We all have free will to choose to accept God that we may be his true friends rather than machines built to make the same ring tone everytime God dials our number.

That form of theodicy presumes that HOPE is something everybody needs to be a full and comfortable person. And that by giving everyone a chance for success, God gives everyone hope. Even on a limited world. To have free will HOPE supplants DESTINY.

Some people may think that's a little cracked, but it's a lot nicer all around than thinking of God saying in his great mercy, "Which baby will I let be aborted today? Eenie-meenie-miney-moe..."

Bad things JUST HAPPEN, but God uses whatever happens that your life may be better if you let him and take the right attitude.

John B.

[Aitoren]

It is kind of disturbing, isn't it? And most people (the world majority woo!) are Christians, and most are supposed to be against many of these issues, yet where did that go? Just my opinion, but if everybody followed their religion closer, regardless what what creed they followed, the world would be a whole lot better off.

BTW, Fawkes, didn't you cover that at school in Religion?

[echoscot]

I was just thinking today about how many terrible issues there are in the world, in such a modern and more advanced setting. There is abortion, there is rape and murder and theft, there are cases like the Schiavo case, which is currently being discussed, there is such injustice in the judicial systems...the list goes on and on. I was just wondering if other people are bothered by such a vast amount of problems in our world today.


I'm wondering what you are getting at, not to discount the eloquent discourse on Theodicy from EveningStar, but you make it sound as if the world was once this wonderful place and only recently became barbaristic. History says otherwise, from the moment of departure from the garden and Cain killed Abel, the world was barbaric and cruel. Justice seemed deprived. America has been blessed for the past 230 years, but there was still barbarism within her borders, slavery, injustice, cruelties. Even in the crown jewel (Yes I am a bit prejudiced towards my country) of the western hemisphere.

But it is a solid reason for Christianity, to plant some hope in an otherwise dark and dying world. :rolleyes:

[Lawrence]

For my money, the question of Theodicy and how you come to grips with it is one of the most important theological questions an individual can answer. I met a young man not long ago who believed that his wife's loss of a baby in the eighth month was a sign from God letting him (the young man) know not to be too prideful.

Aside from distrubing me greatly, I had to really stop and wonder what sort of belief system this kid had been exposed to. It seems to set you up for tremendous dissapointment. When you are in gravy, the Lord is blessing you. When the chips are down, blessings have been removed. I am not so sure the Lord visits temporal punishments on folks for their sins as their is PLENTY of time for that later.

For me, when things are going well I thank God for all that he has allowed to happen to me. When things are not going well I pray for God to rescue me from the evils I am being faced with. I chock the evils of the world up to sin and our fallen natures. God wants things to be better, but we prevent goodness at every turn.

[The Half-Blood Prince]

The term you are reaching for is THEODICY. How can bad things happen to good people if God is good?

I have an answer to that but it may make your ears burn.

In the beginning when God created the world and put Man in it, he knew the future and therefore created the world knowing full well the price for making it a liveable place would be an inevitable march to the Cross.

Therefore we cannot speak of theodicy in terms of "We fell from the originally intended grace so nasty things happen to us due to Adam and Eve."

Rather we must consider that we were provided with immune systems, blood clotting factors, and common sense and turned loose to replace ourselves when we wear out and avoid walking off cliffs. But when we die, our immortal spirits come with the experiences we learn back to the God from which we came and experience eternity.

I call the chances the agreements of physical life in a spiritual universe:

1) Rather than God choosing who would reproduce, we all have a chance to marry and have children. Some do, others do not.

2) Rather than being given a fixed number of years and then to die regardless, we may live to be quite old or we might even die in infancy, but we all have a chance. That keeps the world from being carpeted with people within 10 generations and use limited resources of this planet.

3) We all have free will to choose to accept God that we may be his true friends rather than machines built to make the same ring tone everytime God dials our number.

That form of theodicy presumes that HOPE is something everybody needs to be a full and comfortable person. And that by giving everyone a chance for success, God gives everyone hope. Even on a limited world. To have free will HOPE supplants DESTINY.

Some people may think that's a little cracked, but it's a lot nicer all around than thinking of God saying in his great mercy, "Which baby will I let be aborted today? Eenie-meenie-miney-moe..."

Bad things JUST HAPPEN, but God uses whatever happens that your life may be better if you let him and take the right attitude.

John B.

No, no, ES, you misunderstand me. I am not talking about theodicy. I am discussing the fact that it is so difficult to grasp that such horrible things can happen in such an advanced, presumably more intelligent society. And yet these things are still occurring.

Although I did like your answer. Very insightful, as always.

And echoscot, I am not saying that the world was once perfect. It never has been, never will be. I am simply thinking of all the horrible things that our happening in the world when we have come so far, do you know what I mean? I'm not saying there shouldn't be problems, I'm just thinking about the vast problems we still have. Just a little thought, I didn't mean to make such a confusion or get so deeply into theodicy. And we know that ES's and POTW's posts are eloquent!!

No, Aitoren, we really didn't cover this in school. That bothers me as well.

[Lady Callandra]

*sigh* Yeah, it bothers me, but just because we have grown in gadget intellegence doesn't mean that we've grown in moral intellegence (if that makes sense). We as a race are sliding further and further into the old "lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life", and not to sound like a downer, but I think that it's going to get much worse.

[Ephinie]

No, no, ES, you misunderstand me. I am not talking about theodicy. I am discussing the fact that it is so difficult to grasp that such horrible things can happen in such an advanced, presumably more intelligent society. And yet these things are still occurring.Well the simple answer to that would be to say that we obviously AREN'T advanced or more intelligent. Yes, I think that's a good answer to that. I don't believe for a moment that we have evolved morally or are in any way more enlightened than people who came before us. Yes, we do have more knowledge about a lot of things... but that only serves to re-enforce the idea that knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing. You can build upon the knowledge of a previous generation, and therefore gain more knowledge. However, the only way to gain wisdom is the hard way - through experience. I think that every generation faces the same basic problems, though perhaps in different forms. The burden is on us to solve our societal problems based upon what we do know.

I agree that an advanced, intelligent society should not have the problems we are having. So therefore, I must conclude that our society isn't all that advanced or intelligent.

[LifeMaiden]

I was going to post a topic regarding issues that Christians find most disturbing and pressing in the world today...and I imagine that among them would be controversial issues about life and death, such as abortion and euthanasia.


I must not be the only one who, even in my 'atheist' days or my denial of God days, my pro-choice days...that this country ( well, not to mention the world) needs some serious moral overhaul. Whatever happened to old-fashioned values and courtesy, and innocence when kids didn't play video games which depict people's heads being ripped off?!


I definitely don't think people always ACT intelligently or rationally, or humanely. We see intelligent people doing stupid things all the time. So what is the cure for this? How do we solve this? One start is to do all you can as an INDIVIDUAL to make the world a better place.

I definitely know that as soon as I was able to re-accept God into my life, and want to get to know Him again and study scripture, that I've been able to see the world more positively. Many people believe they cannot make a difference. But even the smallest, most random act of kindness makes a difference, and if we would do more of those things, imagine how we could transform the world.

[♣Teh Deviant♣]

Whatever happened to old-fashioned values and courtesy, and innocence when kids didn't play video games which depict people's heads being ripped off?!


In reply to this thread, I shall quote one of the most thought-provoking songs I've ever heard.

Whatever happened to old values and..fine morals and, good breeding?

Basically it repeats that over and over again. I don't think it's really the world that needs to change, but the people living in it.

[The Half-Blood Prince]

It's almost like when will humans get enough experience, you know? Where is the line drawn where we can take a step forward in making better decisions?

[inkspot]

Let's give ourselves a tiny break. We have come far in the west in putting true morality into action. The abolition of slavery, for one thing, was a huge victory for godliness and morality. We recognized that people of other races are still people, and as such their lives, like ours, are sacred. Then the whole civil rights movement in the USA was another huge victory for morality. We recognized that while our laws gave lip service to equality, that had not translated into real life, and we all worked together to unlearn prejudice. Race relations are still not perfect, but they are far and away better than they were before MLK Jr et al. The Allies stood together to put an end to evil in WWII, and a generation of us were around to celebrate the end of the Cold War -- a nuclear holocaust had been a reality in our brains since the Cuban missille crisis, and somehow, it was averted!

Grand things have happened, and we have made progress. We still have far to go, and it looks for the moment as if we are going backward instead of forward, but as long as there are people who care to look at the issues clearly and address them in light of God's love, there is hope.
:)