Spirituality in TLTWATW

[dude]

What do people think of it? I think it's an excellent part of the book.

Basically what I take from it is:

The role of imagination/perception in reality.

The idea that reality depends on agreement - e.g. laws of Narnia created by magic.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

I'm going to shuffle this over to the "Christianity and Narnia" forum, where the thread suits the focus better than it does the forum devoted to the film. There are several threads of this nature already; it may be best to merge this one with one of them.

[dude]

Well I'd rather keep it a seperate thread because I'd like to discuss these two things that I can't see in any of the others.

[inkspot]

Welcome Dude.

I take it you don't want this in the Christian/Bible Thread because you don't want Christian perceptions on spirituality here? We'll leave it for now, but I fear you may find most people associate Christian spirituality with the stories. :)

[dude]

I dunno it could have been discussed there I guess but I'd rather not dogmatically keep the discussion to Christian spirituality (of which I am fairly well-read but no expert).

Not much of a surprise that most people associate Christian spirituality with the stories.

Personally I think there's a strand of spirituality I think is very true that is common to Christianity and other religions like Buddhism. When I read a lot of what Jesus apparently said I agree with virtually all of it (obviously room for different interpretations here to mine), when I read some parts of the bible it fits less with other religions and my own assessments.

But the nature of imagination/perception and agreements is in my opinion essential to a workable understanding of spirituality and indeed reality.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

The struggle is, we don't have any other appropriate spots. We've discussed whether "Christianity and Narnia" is a mislabeling, because we've got all sorts of discussions in here about non-Christian subjects like Islam, Wicca, and abortion. Of all the places on the site to place a thread on this issue, this is the best one. I think your thread title does a fine job of describing what you want to discuss.

[Narborg]

I gess people can get other messages out of the books if there looking for them. Like you could probablly get a christian mesasage out of any book or movie you want, Ive hered a sermon do on the movie Moulin rouge before. likewise, you could get a non christan message out Narnia. I would be intersted to here what they are.
With regared to the forum name, I wouldnt be against changing it to omeing like religon and Narnia to make it more inclisive.

[dude]

Well from reading lots of stuff about afterlife experiences I think it's fair to say there are other universes apart from this one, like Narnia.

And I think reality is basically agreement between people - they decide on some rules and then they've agreed to look at things a certain way - from there you get perception of reality.

[inkspot]

And I think reality is basically agreement between people - they decide on some rules and then they've agreed to look at things a certain way - from there you get perception of reality.
Come again? I am not sure I understand you ...

[LifeMaiden]

I was told that the Horse and His Boy had a lot of strong Biblical parallels but I've been so out of touch with scripture that I was unable to really see the parallels!! The only thing I could remotely think of was Moses.

[echoscot]

I was told that the Horse and His Boy had a lot of strong Biblical parallels but I've been so out of touch with scripture that I was unable to really see the parallels!! The only thing I could remotely think of was Moses.

The walk of Shasta is very similar to that of Christian, in Pilgrim's Progress. Shasta is learning of a place he was born to, but never been. He is moving into a new "faith" and is guided by the great lion, Aslan, himself. He encounters danger, friendship and dry desert times along the way. That is the "Great Adventure" that comes of being a Christian, then getting to Archenland, to discover he has been made a prince.

There are so many moments that parallel the scriptures, from silly puns:

"Oh great Tisroc, may you live forever."

Read Daniel, you will see that is how the King of Babylon is addressed.

Oh, there are so many things, I really enjoyed that book. Especially when Shasta gets lost in the mist and worries and worries only to discover that Aslan has been with him all along. And he has protected him from a very steep precipice.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

I'd read the story for years before I was able to see those components. The desert is a particularly powerful image, since often our walk toward spiritual maturity requires us to go through dry and difficult periods. These force us to grow in character and accept the burden of serving others.

One thing that stuck with me, even from when I was a kid, was the following exchange. The children and horses had just crossed the desert, forced themselves to outgallop the Calormene troops, been chased by a lion, and Shasta had even gone back and confronted the beast when he appeared to be attacking Aravis. Just when he thinks he's earned a rest, the hermit says:
"This damsel is wounded. Your horses are spent. Rabadash is at this moment finding a ford over the Winding Arrow. If you run now, without a moment's rest, you will still be in time to warn King Lune."

Shasta's heart fainted at these words, for he felt he had no strength left. And he writhed inside at what seemed the cruelty and unfairness of the demand. He had not yet learned that if you do one good deed your reward is usually to be set to do another and harder and better one.
Wow. That line has stuck with me all my life, and every time I do something difficult but worthy and don't get the recognition I think I should, I remember that. Of course, what neither Shasta nor the reader knows at the time is that he's only being sent to save his own kingdom, and that he's got a crown and a royal heritage waiting for him at the end - as do we, if we hold on until the end.

[LifeMaiden]

Oh my goodness...well, those are more subtle than I thought. Strangely I had a picture in my head of Shasta being adopted as Moses was.

[dude]

Come again? I am not sure I understand you ...

Narnia was created by deciding upon rules. Once people have agreed upon the rules they have a certain reality.

You can even forget you agreed to the rules to make things seem more real!

[echoscot]

Narnia was created by deciding upon rules. Once people have agreed upon the rules they have a certain reality.

You can even forget you agreed to the rules to make things seem more real!


Uhhhh did you read the Magician's Nephew? Narnia was created by Aslan singing it into existence. Sorry if that is a plot spoiler for you, but you aren't really making sense.

Perhaps you could clarify or give examples... Who decided, what rules?

[inkspot]

Narnia was created by deciding upon rules. Once people have agreed upon the rules they have a certain reality.

You can even forget you agreed to the rules to make things seem more real!
Oh, sorry, I am still at a loss as to what you are saying.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Oh my goodness...well, those are more subtle than I thought. Strangely I had a picture in my head of Shasta being adopted as Moses was.There was a similarity, in that he was found floating in a basket on the water by the fisherman Arsheesh and informally adopted as a "son" - actually a live-in servant. But the story behind how the Shasta got into the basket in the first place is where the story of the kidnapping comes in.

[QA48]

Narnia was created by deciding upon rules. Once people have agreed upon the rules they have a certain reality.

You can even forget you agreed to the rules to make things seem more real!

So what you are saying is that if we all agree on Narnia being a real place, by doing so it will make it real even though we are not able to see it? :o

[inkspot]

So what you are saying is that if we all agree on Narnia being a real place, by doing so it will make it real even though we are not able to see it? :o
Oh, is that it?! That would be fine, wouldn't it?
:)

[dude]

So what you are saying is that if we all agree on Narnia being a real place, by doing so it will make it real even though we are not able to see it? :o

In some sense - yes.

But of course if we can see it that makes it more real. I think we have that power as a spirit even if that power is reduced in human bodies.

I think we have the power of near perfect communication by some kind of telepathy - I also think we have the power of incredible imagination. (These powers are presumably gifts from God).

So I think one person can think of a place called Narnia and communicate it to someone else exactly. They can then look at it play in it etc and do something else if they get bored. Or they can go a step further and manage to forget that they made it and that they are really characters in the world of Narnia.

[LifeMaiden]

In some sense - yes.

But of course if we can see it that makes it more real. I think we have that power as a spirit even if that power is reduced in human bodies.

I think we have the power of near perfect communication by some kind of telepathy - I also think we have the power of incredible imagination. (These powers are presumably gifts from God).

So I think one person can think of a place called Narnia and communicate it to someone else exactly. They can then look at it play in it etc and do something else if they get bored. Or they can go a step further and manage to forget that they made it and that they are really characters in the world of Narnia.



Now do you guys see what I mean about scientology being a little far out, even for those of you who might not understand everything about it?

[narniarox]

Then Dust Off The Good Book And Start In The Middle Till You Have Found Them All! ;) You Might Want To Look Under "Providence" If Your Bible Has A Subject Index. (don't be surprised if you're drawn to something different in their too! :D ) Happy Reading! And Please Don't Take The Easy Way Out!

[inkspot]

Now do you guys see what I mean about scientology being a little far out, even for those of you who might not understand everything about it?
LOL, IM. You crack me up.
I didn't really think Dude could be serious on this one ...

[Sunrise]

Sounds like one of those sort of Eastern philosophies about creating your own reality to me..."your reality is whatever you believe it to be" etc. It's a tempting worldview because it leaves the door wide open for one's selfish human desires to step in and direct everything.

If only!

[inkspot]

Yes, I don't think the "spirituality in LWW" actually implies that because the children believed in Narnia enough, it was there. Lucy went there before she believed in it, and later, although she still believed, she couldn't get back in ... It would be fun to create your own reallity but I don't think it works. :(

[dude]

Sounds like one of those sort of Eastern philosophies about creating your own reality to me..."your reality is whatever you believe it to be" etc. It's a tempting worldview because it leaves the door wide open for one's selfish human desires to step in and direct everything.

If only!
This isn't an easy concept to explain well! :)

If you can create your own reality well it's certainly nice. Most people can do it in dreams (let's call that a dream universe), but there are certainly rules to follow in this universe.

In TLTWATW Narnia was created with the old magic and then those in Narnia had to live with those rules. I think that's true of this universe too.

[inkspot]

You think that this world was created by certain rules, and so we must live within them? Yes, I will agree with that. :)

[dude]

Certainly if we don't know any better.

The questions I think are interesting are:

Who made the rules?
Can any of the rules be broken?
Are there any other realities/universe that we can access?