Tirian was rubbish!

[rosymole]

Now I can't say that Tirian was all bad- he rallied the troops during the final days of Narnia and was prepared to die for his country, follow the true word of Aslan when all around were lies, admited when he was wrong and place himself in danger etc etc all that's fine..but my beef is he was a king, he ruled a country-yes? -so, how on earth did he not notice that his beloved Narnia was being being slowly torn apart? How is it possible for monkey in a paper hat to convince nearly two entire nations that they are the 'mouth piece' of Aslan?

I guess this is a 2 parter really- how could Tirian have been so blind, and why did people beleive the ape? How could Narnia have reached such depths?

[inked]

Quite simply the news did not travel. Tirian was occupied in a distant part of Narnia. The farce carried out was initially quite localized. The other animals were fooled into obedience by their smarter leaders and convinced that they were serving Aslan.

Comparisons: The slow travel of letters between Britain and the USA allowed the fomenting of the Revolution.

Comparisons: The German people were in a state of economic and political disruption, relatively isolated from the rest of Europe by law and postWWI restrictions and payments, restive under an resurgent nationalism, and LISTENED to Hitler. Even when the rest of the world became aware of him, he was considered an aberration and unfit to listen to, so why would the Germans believe him? But they did because of the circumstances, didn't they?

Comparisons: The re-interpretation of Aslan began in a localized area under the confined communication conditons and the affected area was thoroughly entrenched in the falsehood before Tirian could do anything to counter the false teaching. (To be sure there were individuals who weren't convinced by the Ape and the Donkey-in-a-lion-skin. But they were squelched, weren't they.) This is not unlike th proliferation of sects under the relatively isolated conditions of settlement of the American frontier and the evolution of Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses in the recent past. Nor is unlike what the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church in Canada are attempting to foist off on the Anglican Communion and Christian Church throughout the world.

Unfortunately, Roseymole, Mr. Lewis has demonstrated an altogether too common scenario quite likely to occur in any world like ours (that is, disobedient to its Creator).

[inkspot]

Tirian was not as suspicious as he should have been because Narnia had been enjoying a long age of prosperity and peace. I guess people would have considered him paranoid if he had been always sending out spies to figure out what potential enemies were up to, or even constantly receiving information on what his subjects were doing in all the remote regions ...

Oh, here, let me draw in an obscure literary parallel: if he had become obsessed with keeping Narnia secure, he might have become a tyrant like Woundwort in "Watership Down" and made everyone's life miserable with enforced security protocols -- and then people would have despised him for being so mean!

[rosymole]

I understand all your historical comparisons Inked, there's a similar example for every year since time began (i did a history degree you see!)

I think what my main point of grr abnout this part of the LB is that there's no explaination as to why these things were allowed to happen ( no rememdy for that now I know). Tirian professed to love Narnia but didn't appear to take an active role in loking after it- even while on holiday during the Golden Age Peter et al always made sure that the home fires were kept buring and they knew what was going on.

[sevgi]

He did not now about the false aslan until he got captured and then he understood the ape for who he really was and was tied up for that The Narnians had also not seen Aslan for a long time so they didn't really know what to expect him to be like which might be why they were fooled

[borntofly]

Although TIrian wasn't aware that Narnia was falling apart it had to end sometime didn't it? Tirian did his best to try and save Narnia, but by then the ape had already dug to deep by getting the Calormenes to help him out in this plan of his. Tirian, let alone anyone but Aslan, could not have possibly forseen that because of the donkey in lion's clothing Narnina would come to an end.

Aslan had not appeared to the inhabitants of Narnia for a very long time, so they had no idea of what he would do. The ape took Aslan, something all the creatures in Narnia enjoyed and perverted it. Their minds were pilable enough for the ape to use this to his advantage. Tirian had no idea of what the ape was plotting until the whole story was told and everything was said and done. I don't think anyone could have prevented Narnia from ending except Aslan himself.

sorry if some of what I say doesn't answer your questions, but...

All worlds come to an end

-borntofly

[borntofly]

oh...and Tirian actually didn't know about the false Aslan until Jill got puzzle out of the stable, and he still didn't know how deep the ape's plans really ran.

[she-elfwarrior19]

I fell in love with Tirian. In the books he sounded so attractive and so....muscular *high pitched sigh*- *blushes*

[Eve'sDaughter]

Tirian.....was an odd fellow. I think since the days of narnia were coming to an end, there were so many things going on it confused him ,and as a king in those circumstances he had no idea how to act. All he had to go on were stories of his ancestors. I think he shows how people here in real life will be like when it's the end of the world. Confused and uncertain.

Wow. I need to stop thinking so hard......

[Lady_Tirian]

I fell in love with Tirian. In the books he sounded so attractive and so....muscular *high pitched sigh*- *blushes*
Oh I love Tirian too!! (in case you can't tell...)
Not because he sounds muscular (although I'm sure he is) but because he's so noble- and there's something so poignant about how hard he tries to do what's good and what's right and stay faithful to the real Aslan even though he doesn't know what's going on.

I think we forget (because we know from the beginning that Shift is a fake and we know what the real Aslan is like) that Tirian and the other creatures of Narnia had never seen/met the real Aslan. He'd become a far-away, almost mythical creature that they only invoked and talked about but didn't necessarily feel to be 'real'-- and then Puzzle shows up in his lion-coat and Shift is telling them it's Aslan- they're confused and in confusion, people tend to follow the strongest personality/leader (who, unfortunately, happens to be Shift). Tirian was too far away to personally interfere. (I always thought that the barn and everything took place way on the far borders of Narnia.) So by the time Tirian got involved, it was too late- no matter how he tries.

And in the most simplistic reasoning for why we're meant to like and sympathize with Tirian, he's with the good guys at the end and Aslan praises him for staying true, the last of the true Kings of Narnia.

[she-elfwarrior19]

finally another Tirina fan who has fallen in love with him lol (back off he's mine lol just kidding)

[rosymole]

I do also have a massive crush on Tirian! Despite my original whingings at the start of the thread.
He seems quite reactionary and almost a little arogant (not a good quality, but one that girls do fall for) and, on a very basic level I am sure that he is totally beautiful and would love me should he meet me!

I think my main problem with LB is tha there's no back story as to what happened between Rillian and the last days..I just want more info really!

[she-elfwarrior19]

Sorry rosymole but he's taken lol just kidding.He just seems so hot

[rosymole]

You have him PG19, as long as I can have the older edmund from the movie?! *g*

[waterhogboy]

Dear me - grow up please girls......... :D

[rosymole]

No Susan/Older Susan/Older Lucy or Lucy from the BBC progs for you then naughty!!! :-)

[waterhogboy]

LOL! No - its ok for guys to be like that - girls should act more maturely :)

[rosymole]

Rubbish! Have you ever seen a hen night in full swing- terrifying!

[waterhogboy]

Hmmmm.... strangely enuff Ive not been to a hens night!! But Ill take your word for it!

[she-elfwarrior19]

Alright Rosymole, deal you get older Edmund and i get Tirian ;). Althouhg i must say that older edmund is quite good for looks lol. but nevertheless he's yers

[unleavened]

I like Caspian. SHHHHH! Don't tell anyone. It'll ruin my image of non-romantic tomboy!...yeah, the one I don't have.

[she-elfwarrior19]

unleavened do you like the older caspian? then i think he would be more handsome, but still Tirian is the hottest lol

[unleavened]

No...I don't like any of them...*glances suspiciously in all directions*

[she-elfwarrior19]

uhh, but you just said you did lol. Is there some joke or sarcasm i am not understanding?lol

[Gryphon]

she's being sarcastic dont worry. TIRIAN IS SOOOOO HOT!

[Wallis]

One might look at the other books to understand the constant "falling away" of the Narnians. Quite a representation of the Bible that constantly showed the Jews falling away from God.

When the children arrive in LWW, many doubt. That may explain why so many turned to the White Witch. That Aslan walked among the Narnians helped reinforce their belief. While Christ walked the Earth, so many gathered around him. After his death and resurrection, it cannot be stated that everyone who followed him remained loyal to him.

In Caspian's day, just two hundred years after Aslan's saved Narnia, the Narnians had fallen away.

And so it goes on, like I stated in the first paragraph.

Perhaps so many of us feel that Christians have not fallen away. Yet, a scant one hundred years after the resurrection, Christians were killing Christians over "correct" doctrine. Witness Paul's letters to the different churches to correct their individual wanderings. And, we Christians have divided ourselves over doctrinal and personal issues to the point that, in my opinion, we have lost the fullness of the Light. Let me repeat that: the fullness of the Light.

IN the last battle prophesied in the End Times, we should not be surprised if many people we know and love turn away because the End Times does not pan out the way each of us individually believes will happen.

I feel Tirian is in a dilemma. He feels that Aslan, like a deus ex machina, will come and straighten everything out. He underestimates the strength of Narnians, that once shown the truth they will turn out en masse behind him and the banner of Aslan. The prophets Elijah and Elisha along with the great champions like Samson had to feel helpless at times as well, as the Jews would not align themselves to God even after He showed His power and majesty.

I cannot fault Tirian for his humaness: he is truly like the rest of us, trying to do good when some actions may just lead to doing something harmful to others. The positive part that comes through is that he never lost faith right up to and through the end.

[waterhogboy]

True - a bit like the Jews turned against Jesus when they realised he hadnt come to fight off the Romans...

[she-elfwarrior19]

ya thats true.

[unleavened]

People are so gullible.

Was that random? I can't tell any more.

[she-elfwarrior19]

whatever..

[rosymole]

Lovin' the the lengthy posts guys! ;-)
Wallis' post, (howyadoin ain't seen you for a while guy?!) - make a great deal of sense and to take the thread back from who we all fancy for a bit (i'm as guilty as the next I know), I think Tirian's fear of the known and uinknown has a lot to do with how he behaves. To be put in a situation where you feel as though you have no where to turn and all around seems so unlike it should be, she uses his fear and also the fear of his enemies to strive on lead the faithful NArnians out of the the other side of there troubles..he's not rubbish at all!

[she-elfwarrior19]

ya, i agree with Rosy, there is no way he is rubbish.

[unleavened]

I really liked him b/c he did his best with the time and situations he was given. Out of all of the reading I've done, He's been one of the best examples of this. (Frodo too, but that was obvious b/c I practically quoted JRRT.)

[Tirian of Narnia]

Read the glitter on my banner, just read the glitter. lol

[Tsukiko]

Tirian is the best character in narnia!! although i thought it was mean when he was gonna kill puzzle when he didnt let puzzle defend himself for bieng in a lion skin

[Tirian of Narnia]

As I've said before, how was Tirian suposed to know that Puzzle wasn't as sneaky and evil as Shift? He had no idea, he just new the there was a donkey sitting there pretending to be Aslan and that's not cool. lol

[Isabel Moseley]

This is gonna be short but:I liked tirian

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