White Which=kirtle Lady? Jadis is the Emerald Witch

[Y. Fish]

Hey, maybe some of you guys can help me settle a long-standing debate between my friend and me:

I think that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are the same person. They act in similary evil ways and we already know that the Witch has changed her appearance and name once before (Jadis), plus in the edition of the book where they give you the guide to the characters they say they're the same person.

My friend says they're different people, because the White Witch got killed in LWW. I dunno... somebody that evil would be hard to keep dead...

What do you all think?

[andrea]

nah, I dont think it is the same witch. You have good points but still, there are probably other of her kind.

[faeriechylde]

Originally posted by Y. Fish@Mar 12 2004, 10:20 PM
we already know that the Witch has changed her appearance and name once before (Jadis)
Wasn't her name always Jadis? It was in TMN and LWW. I would say definitely not the same person. There are subtle differences in the characters, but I don't have time to go into that now...

[Y. Fish]

Well, yes, I guess I didn't phrase that right-- I meant that she changed from Jadis into the White Witch, not vice-versa. I was just kinda musing-- they probably are different people, I just thought it would be interesting if they were the same.

[andrea]

Originally posted by Y. Fish@Mar 15 2004, 05:32 PM
I meant that she changed from Jadis into the White Witch, not vice-versa.
no she was always Jadis... the "White Witch" was what the Narnians dubbed her, that's all.

[Y. Fish]

Okay, okay-- you guys are right, she was always named Jadis and she's not the same person as the Lady of the Green Kirtle. Guess my brain just got fuzzied up on the story. I probably need to re-read the books, just after I finish the book I'm reading for English, and the book my brother told me to read, and the book my friend's dad wrote, and the book I still need to return to my other friend that I've had in the bottom of my locker for a year... :blink: oy vei, I've got a lot of reading to do...

[Between_the_Worlds]

Hmmm, I knew that Jadis and the White Witch were the same person, and I've always thought that J/WW was the Lady of the Green Kirtle too. But now I'm not sure. J ate the Apple of Youth and so I would assume that she wouldn't die. But then that makes me confused as to why the WW was destroyed in LWW. So, I'm just as puzzled as you....guess that didn't help much. But yeah, I've always wondered.

[Specter]

Okay, just read something interesting:
in my narnia books, under "Cast of Characters":

JADIS. The last Queen of Charn, which she herself destroyed. Jadis arrives in Narnia with Digory and Polly in The Magician's Nephew and has taken over the land as the White Witch in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Completely evil, she is also very dangerous in The Silver Chair.

I don't know about you guys, but I think the publisher might be right about her being the same woman, albeit her means of attack and attitude is a bit different.

[Y. Fish]

Yeah, that's the thing that got me thinking, too...

[Culfintariél]

I am reading MN right now and had the thought that perhaps when Aslan and P, S, L, and E defeated the White Witch something like Tolkien did with Sauron happened where her spirit lived on, but had to come back underground...that would explain why it took her quite a while to take over the underworld and make the plans to retake Narnia....

just a random thought

[Specter]

Maybe when Aslan pounced on her, he slammed her THROUGH the ground! :o

[Lunis]

What interesting theories(and jokes)! :rolleyes: [snickers :lol:] You guys have pudding brains :lol: (just jk)... :D

[Lunis]

You know, it never says anything about the "Green lady" being large, a giantess.
And Lewis is always commenting on Jadis's grandness and her height. Just a thought. ;)

[Gleeleaf]

Yup, I'm pretty sure they are not the same woman or Lewis would have brought it into the story somehow. Authors don't make a connection like that for no reason, and since there is no reason, I see no connection. (*crosses arms stubbornly across chest*) ;)

[faeriechylde]

I agree with Leafy... there is no reason for Lewis NOT to point out that she's the same person if she is, so why doesn't he? I don't know why the publisher said it was the same person, though... I'd like to know what brought them to that conclusion.

[Lunis]

Originally posted by faeriechylde@Apr 15 2004, 02:44 PM
I don't know why the publisher said it was the same person, though... I'd like to know what brought them to that conclusion.
Lunis raises an eyebrow,"As would I, my dear Fae."
Thinks aloud, "May be the publisher is a bit dim-witted." :mellow: ;)

[Y. Fish]

Originally posted by Lunis@Apr 15 2004, 09:53 AM
You know, it never says anything about the "Green lady" being large, a giantess.
And Lewis is always commenting on Jadis's grandness and her height. Just a thought. ;)
:mellow: (tried to find a smilely that looked like it just heard an interesting thought, this was as close as I could get)

I hadn't thought of that before, Lunis. Good point.

[Lunis]

Thanks Fish. I try to have good points, so I'm thankful for my analytical mind. B)

lol... :lol:

[Gleeleaf]

Um ... that's weird, I didn't know no one had thought of that. :huh:

[MissPole]

JADIS. The last Queen of Charn, which she herself destroyed. Jadis arrives in Narnia with Digory and Polly in The Magician's Nephew and has taken over the land as the White Witch in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Completely evil, she is also very dangerous in The Silver Chair.

Thats the publishers opinion, not C.S. Lewis's. Those "Bios" weren't in there when he was alive.

Jadis and The Lady Of The Green Kirtle are totally differant people. Just look at their personalitys

[Specter]

Welcome MissPole. Yeah, we'll have to look for something that Lewis may have written about the two characters. Maybe in the Letters of Lewis books.

[faeriechylde]

Well, once you've thoroughly researched it, let us know :D

[Lunis]

Yes, Spec, do inform us.

Oh, and Miss Pole, a hearty (and a bit late) WELCOME to you!
I hope you find that some of us are worth talking to! :D
(jk- all of us are worth conversing with, I'm sure, well, may be not :huh: ). :lol:

[Gleeleaf]

Nope, not all. I'm not, for instance. :D You can ask anyone who talks to me often (espescially Fae), and they'll tell you that I'm annoying and boring, and bothersome ... :rolleyes:

[Lunis]

Ha, as your sister I must disagree with you on that statement. :P
I haven't gotten bored living with you, infact I find you amusing, if not slightly entertaining! :lol: ;)

[Gleeleaf]

Thanks, Luni, but as my sister, you may be obligated to say so. :lol: Does anyone here think my posts are any good, or am I boring you?

[Y. Fish]

Your posts are plentiful, but far from dull.

By the way, does anybody know if it's pronounced "JAY-dis" or "JAH-dis?" :huh:

[Lunis]

Whoa, my universe is rocked! I always knew it as Jay-dis, but perhaps it could be pronounced differently. :blink:

[Y. Fish]

yeah, me too! I always thought it was jay-dis, but when I was talking about Narnia with a friend of mine and I said her name, he said "No, you're pronouncing it wrong. It's jah-dis. I should know, I've listened to the books on tape recorded by Lewis's son" and blah, blah, blah. Show-off know-it-all. <_<

[faeriechylde]

Yeah, come to think of it, isn't it pronounced jah-dis in the BBC films? hmmm.... it's probably all a matter of British vs. American pronunciation. :rolleyes:
But really, Leafy, I also must insist that you are NOT boring!
And most of the time, I only pretend you're bothersome. I thought it was a joke, but if you don't like it, I'll quit picking on you. Please forgive me? :(

[dawntreader77]

im rusty sence reading lww are you sure it said aslan killed the wich or just delt with her. :huh: and im new to the site.could some one pm me that knows what theyer doing?i have question on when i post a reply
:blink:

[Lunis]

Hmm, I'll try to get Specter, the web-master to help you...or someother very experienced person. ;) Hang in there.. :lol:

[dawntreader77]

thankyou lunis.it worked now. :D ;) B)

[dawntreader77]

or maybee notor wait.now it is.my computer is old and weary;that probably has something to do with it :lol:

[Lunis]

Ha ha, my computer's not that great either, but it works! :lol: ;)

[faeriechylde]

In answer to your question, DT, I'll quote some of the end of Chapter XVI, "What Happened About the Statues", and some of Chapter XVII, "The Hunting of the White Stag," from LWW.

[Aslan] flung himself upon the White Witch.... Then the Lion and Witch had rolled over together, but with the Witch underneath....
When those [enemies] who were still living saw that the Witch was dead they either gave themselves up or took to flight.
Hope that helps :)

[Gleeleaf]

Ah, yes, see? She is dead. There's no way they could be the same person. It wouldn't make any sense.

[Lirimaer_senshi]

Hi Guys
This is my first post on this site!

I've had this conversation with people many a time and this is my theory.
The concept that Jadis/White Whitch and the Lady of the GK are the same person is an idea that only came to be when the BBC versions of the CoN were released. This confusion came about because the same actress was cast in both parts, and so sounded (and of course looked) very similar. She also played the hag in PC
I hope this helps

God bless
Liri

[Gleeleaf]

Welcome, Liri! I hope you stay for a while and enjoy the site! :D Thanks for the tip. I had no idea that the same woman had played both parts. :huh: I mean, I was only a little kid when I last watched those things. :rolleyes:

[Y. Fish]

I don't think it came from the BBC movies. I've never seen them, and I still got the idea from the books that they were the same. But that might be because of the characters page in the beginning of some versions of the books, which might have been written after the movies and been influenced by them.

Oh, and I just realized that I mispelled "witch" in the title of this topic. Only now do I see that.

[dawntreader77]

oh man!!! i got it!!! i figgured it out!!! ok maybee jadis is a spirit and took on different bodies and only the bodies dies not jadis ;)

[Gleeleaf]

Um ... nice idea, Treader. :rolleyes:

[dawntreader77]

well lets here youre conclusion leafy! <_<
lol just playin

[Gleeleaf]

My conclusion? My conclusion = you're weird. :lol: The whole with/body thing doesn't sound like something C.S.Lewis would have thought of. I don't think so. But since I know you were just kidding, I won't say anything further on your srange behavior. :D ;)

[dawntreader77]

yes i am weird and proud!!! thats W.A.D. ;) well i dont know it was just a guess...trying to solve yalls problem and world hunger ;)

[May Lafay]

So is the debate over yet.... two different people then? (been living under a rock for a few months.)

[Gleeleaf]

I think the debate will continue until our World ends! :lol: Everyone will keep their own opinion, with no proof to what was true, seeing as C.S.Lewis is dead, and he might not have really known himself! :lol: ;)

[eustace]

she isn't dead.
remember in prince caspian, when the narniansare losing the fight and have almost lost hope.
the hag whom nikabrik brings into counsel says
'you needn't worry about the White Lady being dead... who ever heard of a witch that really died? you can always get them back'

so it's quite possible the lady in SC is Jadis if someone in the intervening period called her back.
However, if it is her, where did she aquire her new power to turn into a serpent? On the other hand, if it's not her, where did the lady of the green kirtle come from?

Personally i do not think that it is Jadis. she has a different method and temperment.
it's an interesting debate though!

any thoughts?

[Y. Fish]

That's the point I was trying to make before, that even if Aslan killed the Witch in the LWW battle, she wouldn't really be "dead." Also, she ate the apple in MN, which was supposed to give her a sort of immortality. So that's gotta count for something. Plus, look at big bad guys in other books: Sauron-- Killed, but didn't stay dead because of the Ring, eventually came back to power. Voldemort-- Once again, killed, but hung around as a kind of limp mist for a while before once again regaining power. Bad guys are coming back form the dead all the time; that's why there are so many blasted Dracula movie sequels.

[NiennaTinuviel]

nevermind, deleted post *blushes*

[jasonc65]

Green Lady = White Witch?

Maybe she had a horcrux. Rilian probably destroyed it, lol.

[sukapesta]

that's what i thought too the first time i read the silver chair... but towards the end wasn't there a description that she came from the same country as the white witch or something of that sort (prompting me to infer that she isn't the white witch)

[WolfsBane]

I don't think they're the same person. And while we're on the subject what's a Kirtle?

But no.

Aslan took down the White Witch, I doubt very much she would've come back. Maybe if it had been one of the other characters...

What's more in PC it's implied that there are ways to bring her back...(the hag and the werewolf in the hut) but that would mean someone had to bring her back and that person is not anywhere in The Silver Chair.

Yeah, the publishers are dorks...they messed up the order of the books didn't they? *eye twitching*

Voldemort came out after CoN so you can't really imply that somehow inspired this...and if it's a trope of fantasy fiction, again it wouldn't work because it's post CoN. :o

If you go by canon alone (which arguably you should) then you cannot say with any certainty that Jadis is the Green Witch since there is no clear connection.

[rogue123]

Aslan is the great lion right, and the emperor over the sea, so if anyone has the power to defeat the white witch it is definitely him!
I dont think the lady of the green kirtle really is the white witch but maybe just the same race and seeing as though jadis had giant blood in her and the LGR has like an agreement with the Harfang giants then maybe she has giant blood too?!?
Just wonderin.

[WolfsBane]

Well I'm in the middle of "The Silver Chair" right now, and there's really no mention of her size or anything like that (like there was with Jadis) that said, rogue I have to agree your idea is more probable than Jadis/Kirtle Lady being the same person.

She obviously had some kind of understanding with the giants, but the only reason I could think of that she is not the same race as Jadis is (and I don't remember so if I'm wrong please correct me) but they couldn't transform could they? :confused: Because the Witch can turn into a serpent...where Jadis is never said to have any kind of transforming powers.

I mean...they don't have to be the same person right? There wasn't one villain running through the course of the stories...you know?

[Faun 3.0]

Jadis becomes the Queen of the Underworld

[PrinceOfTheWest]

How many times do we have to go through this in this forum? There's no textual support at all for Jadis and the Emerald Witch being the same person. Apparently the same actress played both roles in the BBC series, which led to a lot of confusion, but in Lewis's world, there's no connection other than a passing reference to the "Northern witches".

[PrinceOfTheWest]

what's a Kirtle?A belt (girdle)

As you can see from my posting, I 100% agree with you.

[rosymole]

A kirtlke is dress/tunic..a bodice..if you will..Thee's apassage from SC where Pudleglum says that the LotGK and the WW are 'similar..it's been said before..I can't find it..it'll be said again (I'm not concentrating!)

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Well, that's interesting, Rosy! I'd been told it was "kirtle", an older form of "girdle". I'd never heard of a "kirtlke" - but frankly, that makes more sense. There's never a mention of her belt, but lots of references to her green dress.

[rosymole]

Thinking about it in a sort of logical way you'd reckon that 'dress' would be more noticeble..'lady in the green dress' is more obvious than 'lady who wears green belt'!
Even though she is a saucy fox..and a terror!

[WolfsBane]

rosymole, PrinceOfTheWest thanks guys...it's just kirtle didn't ring any bells and I've read medievil fiction before...so...oh, and my dictionaries didn't have it either...so I didn't bother with the online ones...LOL Thank you.

And yeah, PrinceOfTheWest you're totally right, There is NO Textual evidence of Jadis and the Green Lady being the same...it's not canon.

You can speculate, about other things but, I don't think Mr. Lewis would have missed that at all...I mean...he was writing all the books simultaneously no? At least that's what I got from this site's description of the books oh, and *madglompsnarniafans.com* they suggest using the original publication order for reading the books, the same way they're going to do the films...LOL I love that...its the best order I think...sorry...so off topic, but its an obsession of mine...LOL

Now you mention it rosymole she was a fox (not in the animal sense like she was a serpent...LOL) but in the sense that she had to use allure to lure Rillian away from his quest for vengeance...and she so easily fooled the children. I don't think Edmund ever thought Jadis was beautiful or any of the other children either...hmm...

And on a last note...if Jadis is the devil (satan) couldn't the Green Witch just be the serpent in the garden? *shrugs* Maybe? I know it's a strech...but I'm looking for symbolism in SC.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Well, there's always room for finding unintended symbolism such as the snake motif (it would have been very odd to have the witch morph into, say, an antelope). The think to keep in mind is that each book was written independently, and without consideration that there would be one following. Lewis didn't set out to write seven books (like Rowling has); he set out to write one, then when there was demand wrote a second, and so forth. Such sporadic writing makes for a lot of loose ends, and the identity of the Emerald Witch and her connection (if any) to Jadis is one of those loose ends.

[WolfsBane]

Well, antelopes aren't menacing...LOL but she could have been something else lethal...like say...a dragon? Or maybe a tiger, or any number of other creatures so that's why I thought maybe you know the serpent wasn't coincidental...JKR is soooooooooooooooooo not coincidental...drives me nuts I swear...but I love it...LOL

But I thought he wrote the books all one after the other and kind of muddled, I mean that's what it said on the site...hmm...surely after the second or third he knew he was going to go on for a bit, no? I dunno. :o

[inkspot]

Hi, WolfsBane, I don't remember seeing you post before, but I haven't had time to be online a lot lately.

I like your style, and especially like your support for publication order when reading the books, it is really the best way.

I am agreeing with you and PoTW that Jadis and the Green lady are different people, but I do not think the serpent motif is coincidence: the serpent in religious works is nearly always evil.

(Wonder what that says to Christians about Harry Potter and the evil snake he's been battling? Could JKR be using biblical symbolism?! I hope so. :p )

[WolfsBane]

Hi, WolfsBane, I don't remember seeing you post before, but I haven't had time to be online a lot lately.
Hello...yeah, I'm new, I don't get on a lot either...LOL :D Nice to meet you.

I like your style, and especially like your support for publication order when reading the books, it is really the best way.
That's how I first read them...and I'm just stubborn...I can't see them anyother way...chronological order isn't always the best...that's why author's use flashbacks and flashforwards...

I am agreeing with you and PoTW that Jadis and the Green lady are different people, but I do not think the serpent motif is coincidence: the serpent in religious works is nearly always evil.
Well, I just thought...someone was making an argument for Jadis being the devil, and that made sense, and since The Green Witch isn't Jadis (but I'll get to that in a minute) she might possibly represent another character from the Bible right? She was obviously a serpent, I mean, as I said before she could have as easily been a panther or a full fledged dragon but she wasn't...and I thought...well snake...and she spoke so prettily too how she fooled everyone as much by her words as her appearance...so...maybe? LOL

(Wonder what that says to Christians about Harry Potter and the evil snake he's been battling? Could JKR be using biblical symbolism?! I hope so. )
Well the Gryffindors are lions ;) and she did say she had read C.S. Lewis, I can't believe she called him dry though...I really think that she meant something else...oh well. But it could also be that it's unintentional on her part...but...that's for another thread... LOL

Okay so about the White Witch/Lady of the Green Kirtle (this is tickling my brain, a green lady...isn't there one in the Arthur legends?) anyways, I just finished The Silver Chair, and I read this:

"And now they all saw what it meant; how a wicked Witch (doubtless the same kind as that White Witch who had brough the Great Winter on Narnia long ago) had contrived the whole thing, first killing Rilian's mother and enchanting Rilian himself."

It's in the Chapter 15 "The Disappearance of Jill" pg. 226 of my paperback.

The important part, I think is that statement...Mr. Lewis says: "...the same kind..." not the same one *shrugs* sounds to me like maybe there's something to be said for that theory she was of the same race...but not that they're the same person.

[MrBeaver]

The forward of my copy od SC (I have the Harper collins collector edition) implies it's the same person.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Yeah, I just found that out in another thread. It was an editor being presumptuous - there's zip support in the text for that assertion.

[tcrab]

This is just an idea that i didn't see posted so i thought i would add it.
Ok well if Jadis is pronounced Jay-dis it sounds like it is derived from the word Jade. Jade is a green rock. And the Lady of the Green Kirtle obvious trate was here green kirtle so there might be some connection

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Wow, that's a stretch for ya!

Keep in mind that Aslan killed Jadis at Beruna. Despite what the hag in Caspian said about how you can always call back witches, that experiment was never tried - and even if it was, it would not mean a reincarnation.

[scumhorror]

they aren't the same person...the silver chair mentions that the lady of the green...came from the north LIKE the white witch i forget exactly witch chapter but i am sure it was in the silver chair

[queen_aravis]

hmmm...not so sure about that. I'm not saying the Lady of the Green Kirtle was exactly the White Witch, but some odd re-encarnation? Perhaps...

I believe that what was written on the ruins of the ancient giant city, which said something like: Though now -insert right words over here- and throneless I shall be, while I ruled the Earth was under me...

...or something like that. I don't believe it was written by an old giant king. Perhaps the Witch wrote it when she created that world Underground?

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Well, according to what the Witch told Rilian, it was written by an old giant king, so if you are going to say it isn't, you'll have to find support for that somewhere.

[queen_aravis]

I know that is what the Lady of the Green Kirtle told Rilian, but here's my reason for thinking there is indeed some deeper connection between this lady and the White Witch: I don't know if the LoTGK is a very reliable source...she could have, very well, lied to Rilian.

And there is another thing as well...we know how Queen Jadis (or the White Witch) was brought to Narnia, how is was all a rather complicated mistake. Wouldn't it take another thing like what happened to Polly and Digory (TMN) to bring the Lady of the Green Kirtle - a witch of the White Witch's kind - to Narnia? I think that wouldn't be very probable, thus it is more likely that there is some kind of connection between both witches, that maybe she is the White Witch in some other form.

Just a theory, though.

[raheel]

there is definitely some connection between the two figures but they cannot be the same person as the white witch was killed in LWW.

[Srob]

And there is another thing as well...we know how Queen Jadis (or the White Witch) was brought to Narnia, how is was all a rather complicated mistake. Wouldn't it take another thing like what happened to Polly and Digory (TMN) to bring the Lady of the Green Kirtle - a witch of the White Witch's kind - to Narnia? I think that wouldn't be very probable, thus it is more likely that there is some kind of connection between both witches, that maybe she is the White Witch in some other form.

Just a theory, though.

I agree with you. The only other "occurence" such as Digory and Polly's and the Pevensies + Eustace and Jill would be the Telmarines. So what if the White Witch, while she was away from Narnia (for what 1000 yrs?), got married(well, she just married to get the kid---I'm trying to say this as delicately as possible b/c the presence of children) and left a lineage?

I am writing a fan-fic--about 12 pages in---and it is about the white witch. Coming sometime----lol.

[queen_aravis]

Finally! Someone who shares my theories! Yay!

Well, I don't really know if the White Witch had a child, but perhaps she experimented, while in life, with ways to remain in Earth even if she was physically gone...does anyone get that?

Anyway, if you ever read Harry Potter you'll understand what I'm saying: just look at Voldemort and how he remained "alive" even after his body was destroyed.

[Srob]

Well, I don't read HP, so I don't know what your talking about.

BUT I understand completely. I know in the Star Wars series, u think the Emperor dies after The Return of the Jedi, but then he returns later in the series because he(as a sith) figured out how to keep his soul from going into the force--or whatever--- and had a ton of clones of himself.

So, maybe the White Witch did that, or she had some kids.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

You guys are busily importing other mythological strains into Lewis' cosmology. He never wrote that sort of thing. You, of course, are free to imagine what you wish, but please don't go saying that Lewis wrote that sort of thing into the Chronicles, because he didn't.

[Christine Marie]

They're not the same people. The book states that The Lady of the Green Kirtle is of the same breed of Northern Witches as Jadis, so they're not the same person.

This person gave a good response to the question

"Reader: In the LWW the witch was destroyed by Aslan. So I want to know how she came back to be the Lady of the Green Kertle in the Silver Chair.

The Professor: The Lady of the Green Kirtle is a different witch altogether than the White Witch. She is also called the Green Witch and Queen of Underland. She is a lot like the White Witch—beautiful on the surface but ugly underneath. But your question is understandable because we never learn where she came from. In Magician's Nephew, Narnia is newly founded by Aslan and Digory accidentally causes the Queen Jadis (from another world) to be brought into Narnia, bringing evil with her. The Tree of Protection protects Narnia for a time—but not forever. Eventually Jadis returns in the LWW and casts Narnia under her spell of winter for 100 years. Then, you're right—she is killed. So one might think that would be the end of evil. But unfortunately, it's not. If the White Witch was the same as Satan—the ultimate source of evil on earth—then you would think that her death would put a stop to witches and the like. But she is not the equal of Satan, just a picture of the presence of evil. And so, we can assume that evil, once entered into Narnia, bred more evil and resulted in evil beings such as the Queen of Underland. Narnia isn't totally delivered from evil until the Last Battle, just as earth will not be totally delivered from evil until after the end times when Jesus returns and defeats Satan once and for all."
http://www.roarofnarnia.com/ask_the_professor.aspx

So it goes back to The Magicians Nephew when Digory accidently brought the Witch into Narnia and Aslan says "Evil will come from evil" and "As Adams race has done the harm, Adams race should help to heal it", which probably explains why Aslan calls upon the children from our world to help Narnia from the forces of evil, but that's a different discussion :D

While Jadis was alive she created and gathered many enemies of Narnia who would continue to breed and, therefore, continue the reign of evil throughout the land
So, basically, when Jadis (evil) was brought into Narnia, evil would continue to fester in Narnia until the end of its world

[lavagirl28227]

i think they are like realeted or something because evey on came form somewhere mabey there sisters or something

[Saruman]

I just...just...JUST cannot see how people come to these misassumptions about Jadis and the Lady of the Green Kirtle! They have nothing to do with each other, whatsoever! Read The Silver Chair again, and you will find out how they are NOT related.

Excellent thoughts on the matter, Christine Marie.

[lions mane]

I just...just...JUST cannot see how people come to these misassumptions about Jadis and the Lady of the Green Kirtle! They have nothing to do with each other, whatsoever! Read The Silver Chair again, and you will find out how they are NOT related.

Excellent thoughts on the matter, Christine Marie.
uhh what? :confused:
they have everything to do with each other, cause they're the same lady!

[Saruman]

uhh what? :confused:
they have everything to do with each other, cause they're the same lady!

Where's the proof of that? Is there something directly out of the Chronicles you can quote or help to back your assumption?

[lions mane]

Where's the proof of that? Is there something directly out of the Chronicles you can quote or help to back your assumption?
u know what i'll have to get my books and look through them, but just everything that it says points to that fact. ;)

[Srob]

You guys are busily importing other mythological strains into Lewis' cosmology. He never wrote that sort of thing. You, of course, are free to imagine what you wish, but please don't go saying that Lewis wrote that sort of thing into the Chronicles, because he didn't.

Well I am definitely NOT saying that Lewis wrote that the White Witch had clones or anything. I SAID it could be a possibility. I for one, do not think that. I believe that the White Witch had followers-----because how would evil stay around if the White Witch was the only evil-----b/c Aslan definitely didn't create evil. ANYWAY. I don't go around saying that Leis wrote that....

[Malacandra]

u know what i'll have to get my books and look through them, but just everything that it says points to that fact. ;)

Well, everything except the bits about the White Witch being Delta Echo Alpha Delta, and the GKW being another one of the same sort, and not performing anything like the same kind of magic, at any rate. :rolleyes:

[inkspot]

There's a misconception because when the owls are all talking at the beginning of SC, one of them says something about these "northern witches" being all of the same type. But even that would imply that they are different witches of the same type, not the same person. People get that impression because BBC had the same actress playing both witches, but there is nothing in the books which says Jadis and the Green Lady are the same person.

[Christine Marie]

People get that impression because BBC had the same actress playing both witches,
Bingo :)
I never saw the BBC series so I was never tainted with that confusing image, thankfully

[DunadainofArrakis]

There is not enough textual evidence to conclude with reasonable certainty that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are one and the same. However, just because you can't prove something to be true with 100% certainty doesn't make it not true. Based on what CSL put into the books I could see how people might come under the conclusion that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are the same person. I for one like that idea, but I guess I've been tainted by the BBC series because I think I saw that before reading the chronicles. Regardless, if people want to believe that that is the case, they can go right ahead because there isn't anything in the text that says they aren't the same person. And even if there are differences between the two characters that doesn't mean they still can't be the same person. They both represent the same thing--evil, and evil can present itself in various forms, whether it is in form of an evil person who likes the color white or an evil person who likes the color green.

[~JadisTheWhiteWitch~]

There is not enough textual evidence to conclude with reasonable certainty that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are one and the same. However, just because you can't prove something to be true with 100% certainty doesn't make it not true. Based on what CSL put into the books I could see how people might come under the conclusion that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are the same person. I for one like that idea, but I guess I've been tainted by the BBC series because I think I saw that before reading the chronicles. Regardless, if people want to believe that that is the case, they can go right ahead because there isn't anything in the text that says they aren't the same person. And even if there are differences between the two characters that doesn't mean they still can't be the same person. They both represent the same thing--evil, and evil can present itself in various forms, whether it is in form of an evil person who likes the color white or an evil person who likes the color green. your right

[Malacandra]

There is not enough textual evidence to conclude with reasonable certainty that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are one and the same. However, just because you can't prove something to be true with 100% certainty doesn't make it not true. Based on what CSL put into the books I could see how people might come under the conclusion that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are the same person. I for one like that idea, but I guess I've been tainted by the BBC series because I think I saw that before reading the chronicles. Regardless, if people want to believe that that is the case, they can go right ahead because there isn't anything in the text that says they aren't the same person. And even if there are differences between the two characters that doesn't mean they still can't be the same person. They both represent the same thing--evil, and evil can present itself in various forms, whether it is in form of an evil person who likes the color white or an evil person who likes the color green.

Look, Jadis was bleedin' demised. She was deceased. Bereft of life she rested in peace. She had rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. She had shuffled off this mortal coil. This witch wouldn't voom! if you put 5000 volts through her! She wasn't pining for the fjords, she had ceased to be. She was no more. This. was. an. ex-. Witch!

There's no 100% proof in the text that Narnia wasn't a Matrix simulation run on Professor Moriarty's cunning improvement of Charles Babbage's visionary Engine of Differences, but there is also no evidence to support the assertion. The Lady of the Kirtle was no more Jadis than Coriakin of Dufflepud Island was the Wizard of Oz. What is this desperate hunger people have to see Jadis alive again? Because she was, like, totally cool and, y'know, kicked ass? :confused: What gives people the idea there couldn't be, I dunno, more than one Wicked Witch in Narnia over the space of a thousand-odd years?

[PrinceOfTheWest]

You don't happen to be a Wodehouse fan, do you?

[Malacandra]

You don't happen to be a Wodehouse fan, do you?

Plum has his moments, but the tirade above owed more to Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" sketch. :D

[PrinceOfTheWest]

That's right, I remembered that a little later. Must be that English strain of the ridiculous. Lots of fun, though!

[Valkyrie]

See, when I read "The Silver Chair" I was pretty sure that the green witch was in fact Jadis (I hadn't even read those cast of character things). What sprang into my mind was that the white witch was the winter version of herself, and now it is springtime (a renewal of sorts). Also, Jadis tempted the boy with and then ate the apple in the first book. Wouldn't it make sense for her to be a snake, as in the snake from the bible? Does anyone REALLY die within Narnia? Or do they just die "in that time"?

[Malacandra]

See, when I read "The Silver Chair" I was pretty sure that the green witch was in fact Jadis (I hadn't even read those cast of character things). What sprang into my mind was that the white witch was the winter version of herself, and now it is springtime (a renewal of sorts). Also, Jadis tempted the boy with and then ate the apple in the first book. Wouldn't it make sense for her to be a snake, as in the snake from the bible? Does anyone REALLY die within Narnia? Or do they just die "in that time"?

We never find out what would have happened to any of the children had they died in Narnia; there was some speculation on that topic in LB. But every Narnian inhabitant who dies stays dead as far as Narnia is concerned (as the conclusion of SC shows us, those faithful to Aslan are resurrected by him in his own country). It's open to question as to whether Jadis would "only" have been returned to Charn if Charn had still existed when she died in Narnia, but given that it didn't, the question is not a useful one.

If you really want to believe that Aslan was just a lion puppet operated by a man behind a curtain, well, the books never explicitly state that he wasn't... :cool:

[TisrocofCalormen]

See, when I read "The Silver Chair" I was pretty sure that the green witch was in fact Jadis (I hadn't even read those cast of character things). What sprang into my mind was that the white witch was the winter version of herself, and now it is springtime (a renewal of sorts). Also, Jadis tempted the boy with and then ate the apple in the first book. Wouldn't it make sense for her to be a snake, as in the snake from the bible? Does anyone REALLY die within Narnia? Or do they just die "in that time"?

I don't think they're the same. I think they are just similar. maybe there sisters or something.

[Malacandra]

I don't think they're the same. I think they are just similar. maybe there sisters or something.

Y'all maybe missing a book or two? One thing they aren't is sisters - by the time Jadis got to Narnia, she had no surviving relatives. The Magician's Nephew explains why. I'd say it was odds-on she was a descendant of some sort; presumably a many-times-great granddaughter as Jadis was not inherently immortal (see MN again) and there's no reason to suppose her immortality was inheritable. But given the Green Lady's unusual power of herpetanthropy :p I'd say her paternal parentage didn't bear close inspection. :eek:

[Tsukiko]

oK< I have the horse and his boy book..so yeah anyways, there is a charatcer page and it says about Jadis "She is even more dangerous still in the silver chair"

i was always debating amongst myself if that really was Jadis in SC

[I♥Georgie]

no she isn't give me some proof

[Elf Of The Grey Havens]

I do not think that the Emerald Witch and Jadis are the same person, but I have a theory, pretty far-fetched. Could the Deplorable Word not truly kill people, but simply transfer them to other worlds? Could the Lady of the Green Kirtle simply be another Charnish witch?

[Tsukiko]

i did!! it said that Jadis is even more dnagerous still in the silver chair!!!!

[Elf Of The Grey Havens]

You say this is a quote from Horse and his Boy? Show me.

[Tsukiko]

NO! There is a charatcer page in my horse and boy book and read Jadis's descrption and it said she was the witch in the silver chair...and all witches like Nikibrik said in prince caspian that they can come back 2 life

[Elf Of The Grey Havens]

Well then your book is wrong... No offense, but they aren't the same.
EDIT: I see these threads were merged.

[inkspot]

iMerge with an older thread on this topic.

Some back-cover copy on some editions of the books or BBC videos say Jadis and the Green Witch are the same person, but there is nothing in the actual text of the stories which says so.

[Tsukiko]

ohh..well i dunno..my opion is that they are the same person

[inkspot]

But do you have any evidence from the text that they are the same person? i don't think there is any.

[Tsukiko]

well i remember in the silver chair that someone mentioned the white witch and someone thought that maybe that was not her but of the same crew...i forgot who said it though..

[PrinceOfTheWest]

well i remember in the silver chair that someone mentioned the white witch and someone thought that maybe that was not her but of the same crew...i forgot who said it though..
That's from the conversation with the older dwarfs and the owls in the cave after the travellers are rescued - the important point is "of the same crew" - not the same person.

[Tsukiko]

Yes, but in Prince Caspian..Nikibrik says there is always a way to call a Witch back..but I dont think it was her? but how else could the emerald witch come into Narnia??

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Try reading back through this thread, TN - this is all discussed much earlier. You can skim through and just note the salient points. There's been lots of supposition on the point, but no support from the stories themselves that they're the same person. Hasn't prevented people from doing lots of imagining and speculating, but I'm a textual literalist. If Lewis didn't write it, then it wasn't so in Narnia.

[Tirian of Narnia]

I do not think that the Emerald Witch and Jadis are the same person, but I have a theory, pretty far-fetched. Could the Deplorable Word not truly kill people, but simply transfer them to other worlds? Could the Lady of the Green Kirtle simply be another Charnish witch?
Yeah, maybe she's her sister. That would make sense.

[Malacandra]

I do not think that the Emerald Witch and Jadis are the same person, but I have a theory, pretty far-fetched. Could the Deplorable Word not truly kill people, but simply transfer them to other worlds? Could the Lady of the Green Kirtle simply be another Charnish witch?

Well, if you ignore the fact that Jadis said in The Magician's Nephew that the DW killed everyone but her, and the fact that this took place in Charn before Narnia even existed, and the fact that Aslan spoke in TMN of an evil having entered the new-created world (by which he meant Jadis), and the fact that Jadis was not immortal until she stole the apple and so presumably her sister would not be either (which raises the question of how she would live through the centuries from TMN until SC), and that the descriptions of the Green Kirtle lady don't make her look anything like Jadis, and that the magic she works is quite different, then yes, that theory flies.

It's a bit like a theory that Stonehenge was erected by the Egyptians at the same time as the Pyramids - all you have to do is ignore the lack of evidence for Egyptians being in the country at the time, the difference in architecture, the different dating of the two artifacts, and a few more minor details. In most circles where the word "theory" is treated with any respect though, people would point and laugh. :p

Yes, but in Prince Caspian..Nikibrik says there is always a way to call a Witch back..but I dont think it was her? but how else could the emerald witch come into Narnia??

Not sure whom you mean by "her", but it's plain in PC that there was some magic proposed that would either resurrect the White Witch or summon her ghost. That said, when Nikabrik says "Whoever heard of a Witch that truly died?", there is no evidence whatever that he is speaking from personal experience, and it may be only an appeal to superstition and commonly-held belief.

How else could the emerald witch come into Narnia? In a world in which there are Hags and Cruels and Werewolves and retired (or disgraced) stars living quietly on islands in the eastern ocean, there's no difficulty in assuming the existence of a wicked witch or two. She could have been a descendent of the WW, or a student of hers (or someone who followed a tradition started by people who admired Jadis, in the lands where she lived before she conquered Narnia), or... fill in the blanks as you please.

[Wunderkind]

Hum,they might be related to each other or something,but I don't think they're the same person..

[the_white_witch]

I do believe that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are one and the same person. Because, 1) Jadis is the only survivor of her world, therfore, there can't be any other charninan witches nor anyone of her same bloodline 2)It does say in PC that you can bring a witch back to life 3) Jadis was always a master at transformation and disguise, which fits with GK turning into a serpent 4) Jadis is the only witch to ever be imortal (meaning that her spirit, not her body is immortal), and it says that GK was around since the beginning of the Narnia, this tells me that it must be Jadis 5) Just because she doesn't look the same as Jadis doesn't mean that she isn't her, she could have taken on a new form 6) The idea of Jadis having descendants is totally out of the question, Jadis was the most evil being in all the world and would never want to share power with anyone, not even her own descendants
Those are all the point I can think of at this moment but I am sure I will think of more. I have never seen the movies but I have always thought the two were the same, only by reading the books.

[LifeMaiden]

I don't believe they are one in the same person, only of the same 'kind' meaning that they were of the Jinn race, perhaps. And Jadis did have a sister, but she was destroyed along with the rest of Charn when Jadis uttered the forbidden word.

[Malacandra]

I do believe that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are one and the same person. Because, 1) Jadis is the only survivor of her world, therfore, there can't be any other charninan witches nor anyone of her same bloodline 2)It does say in PC that you can bring a witch back to life 3) Jadis was always a master at transformation and disguise, which fits with GK turning into a serpent 4) Jadis is the only witch to ever be imortal (meaning that her spirit, not her body is immortal), and it says that GK was around since the beginning of the Narnia, this tells me that it must be Jadis 5) Just because she doesn't look the same as Jadis doesn't mean that she isn't her, she could have taken on a new form 6) The idea of Jadis having descendants is totally out of the question, Jadis was the most evil being in all the world and would never want to share power with anyone, not even her own descendants
Those are all the point I can think of at this moment but I am sure I will think of more. I have never seen the movies but I have always thought the two were the same, only by reading the books.

Taking these in order:
It's true that there was no-one left alive in Charn except Jadis, and no way anyone but her could have come from Charn to Narnia, so this correctly rules out anyone else from Charn being the GKW. But it doesn't rule out the possibility of descendants (discussed later).
All we know from PC is that Nikabrik, the Hag and the Werewolf all believed that a witch could not be truly destroyed. But if there was no other witch than Jadis, how could they have come by this belief? Not by example, obviously. And however they came by it, is there any evidence that the belief was true - or that these three would have successfully brought Jadis back in material form?
Jadis was seen to successfully disguise herself with magic, but not to transform herself into another creature. Also, in her normal form she was strong enough to break iron with her bare hands - and transforming into a serpent would have been less effective than defending herself in Witch-shape.
Where's the quote for GK having been around since the beginning of Narnia? I don't remember that. Until Aslan killed her, Jadis's body was immortal - ageless, that is; clearly she could be killed - as a result of eating the apple from Aslan's garden. There's no evidence that her spirit was any more or less immortal than anyone else's.
Why would she do this? No-one left in Narnia knew what Jadis looked like, except Aslan, and she could hardly have hoped to deceive him if they had ever met. The GK's physical form was plainly much feebler than Jadis's; it was the work of a moment for the Prince to kill her.
Evil and powerful people have been known to want descendants before now - even if only as feeble copies of themselves that they can feel superior to. It might have pleased Jadis to have great^n-granddaughters running about the place, a race of naturally gifted Witches and none of them more than a feeble and short-lived shadow of their immortal foremother. We don't have direct evidence either way, but my point is that either view can be argued for.

@IceMaiden - We have only Mr Beaver's word for it that Jadis was half a Jinn and half a Giantess. It's highly doubtful that he had direct evidence. :)

[inkspot]

I think Mr. Beaver knew what he was talking about! Djinn she was.
:)

[Malacandra]

I think Mr. Beaver knew what he was talking about! Djinn she was.
:)

*does the steepled-fingers thing*

While in no way wishing to impugn the inestimable expertise of the splendid Mr. Beaver, I'm obliged to ask where we are supposed to think he got the information - and how this ties in with Jadis's Charnese ancestry as it was later established. Which is most plausible: that Jadis was untypical of her race (while physically resembling the other Kings and Queens in the Hall of Thrones); that the people of Charn were all cross-bred from Djinn and Giants; or that Mr. Beaver was merely repeating one of a host of groundless rumours flying around Narnia throughout the hundred years' winter?

*peers over spectacles*

Hmm?

Logic! Why don't they teach logic in these schools?

[LifeMaiden]

Taking these in order:
It's true that there was no-one left alive in Charn except Jadis, and no way anyone but her could have come from Charn to Narnia, so this correctly rules out anyone else from Charn being the GKW. But it doesn't rule out the possibility of descendants (discussed later).
All we know from PC is that Nikabrik, the Hag and the Werewolf all believed that a witch could not be truly destroyed. But if there was no other witch than Jadis, how could they have come by this belief? Not by example, obviously. And however they came by it, is there any evidence that the belief was true - or that these three would have successfully brought Jadis back in material form?
Jadis was seen to successfully disguise herself with magic, but not to transform herself into another creature. Also, in her normal form she was strong enough to break iron with her bare hands - and transforming into a serpent would have been less effective than defending herself in Witch-shape.
Where's the quote for GK having been around since the beginning of Narnia? I don't remember that. Until Aslan killed her, Jadis's body was immortal - ageless, that is; clearly she could be killed - as a result of eating the apple from Aslan's garden. There's no evidence that her spirit was any more or less immortal than anyone else's.
Why would she do this? No-one left in Narnia knew what Jadis looked like, except Aslan, and she could hardly have hoped to deceive him if they had ever met. The GK's physical form was plainly much feebler than Jadis's; it was the work of a moment for the Prince to kill her.
Evil and powerful people have been known to want descendants before now - even if only as feeble copies of themselves that they can feel superior to. It might have pleased Jadis to have great^n-granddaughters running about the place, a race of naturally gifted Witches and none of them more than a feeble and short-lived shadow of their immortal foremother. We don't have direct evidence either way, but my point is that either view can be argued for.

@IceMaiden - We have only Mr Beaver's word for it that Jadis was half a Jinn and half a Giantess. It's highly doubtful that he had direct evidence. :)


Malacandra, Mr.Beaver said she was a descendant of Lilith and the giants, not giantess and Jinn. Together, Lilith and the giants created the race KNOWN as the Jinn.

And that's the basis of my fanfiction story :D

I personally DO NOT believe that Jadis nor or sister had any descendants. If they did, they would have most likely been on Charn, and again, that world was destroyed in its entirety when she uttered the forbidden word.

[LifeMaiden]

*does the steepled-fingers thing*

While in no way wishing to impugn the inestimable expertise of the splendid Mr. Beaver, I'm obliged to ask where we are supposed to think he got the information - and how this ties in with Jadis's Charnese ancestry as it was later established. Which is most plausible: that Jadis was untypical of her race (while physically resembling the other Kings and Queens in the Hall of Thrones); that the people of Charn were all cross-bred from Djinn and Giants; or that Mr. Beaver was merely repeating one of a host of groundless rumours flying around Narnia throughout the hundred years' winter?

*peers over spectacles*

Hmm?

Logic! Why don't they teach logic in these schools?


I don't question Mr. Beaver's information since CS Lewis obviously was the one who came up with the theory. And is it really all that important to you? :D

[Malacandra]

I don't question Mr. Beaver's information since CS Lewis obviously was the one who came up with the theory. And is it really all that important to you? :D

I reserve the right to argue about pointless trivia as long as I like.

That which the character says is not necessarily that which the author knows to be true. C'mon, you know this stuff!

Descendents on Charn? Well, they'd all be dead. But she could've, y'know, done the nasty while she was in Narnia and got children that way...

[inkspot]

If you read fantasy like George McDonald's "Lillith," I think it leaves a world of possibility open for how she might have populated Charn with djinn.

Beaver knows his stuff. He rocks. :)

[~JadisTheWhiteWitch~]

we may never know

[Cyon Corell]

While I may deeply respect C.S. Lewis' writing ability and his extensive knowledge of Christian theology and philosophy, I believe that the use of and understanding of the nature and origin of the race known as the Jinn is a bit lacking in some respects. As some may know the Jinn are a race of beings made of a smokeless fire, first mentioned amongst the Arabs. In occult literature they are divided into subraces based on their alignment with one of the four Platonic elements. They were not created as the offspring of Lilith and Giants, but by God. The only Giants I've heard of Biblically (since Judaeo-Christian mythology was the basis for a lot of the CON legends,etc.) would be the offspring of the Nephillim (fallen angels) and the daughters of man. Lilith, at least according to my understanding, procreated with both these half-breeds and normal humans (those mentioned in Genesis [the people of Nod, etc. {not Adam and Eve's offspring}]). She didn't stay with Adam, 'cause she wouldn't, to put it bluntly, submit to him. So I can't really see how the Beaver's tales are true, unless the demons that we hear that Lilith procreated with (besides her other husbands) are actually the Jinn mentioned in the CON, all based on whether or not Lewis had a deep knowledge of the Hermetic Sciences, (which do make mention of a Djinn, the king of the fire element, along with his servants, the Ifrits) or Islam. This might make some sense, but at least as far as I know, a clear explanation wasn't provided, just rumours provided by various characters, most notably the Beavers. Just thought I might explain a little about the Jinn, though I'm sure you all have at least some aquaintance with the REAL Jinn, as presented in the Islamic tradition, to which I adhere. I personally would think it uber cool if the Emerald Whitch were Jadis in disguise, 'cause she didn't get enough screen time in my opinion (only two novels). Well, geuss that's it.

See ya on the flipside,

Cyon Corell

Iarri Acolyte
And
Student Mage

http://www.fatumoperandi.org

http://www.theveritasacademy.net

[inkspot]

Welcome to the discussion, Cyon. You are one smart cookie.
:)
I have a djinn in my shrimp story ... but for my purposes, he is just one of the "sons of heaven" which I think they told us over in the Islam thread is what the djinn are ...

[LifeMaiden]

For now, I'm going to stick with the Beavers' idea that the Jinn were descended from giants and Lilith because that is at the core of my fanfic story. Although your facts there are very interesting, Cyon, and something that I did not know anything about.


And as far as the Green Kirtle Lady, I already have theories in my head as to how to explain her existence and her relationship with Jadis, which of course, will make its way into my fanfic in future chapters. They will definitely be related by blood. :D

[inkspot]

Sweet!
your story is so cool.

And, to stay on topic, I don't think they could have been the same person because Aslan killed Jadis at the end of LWW.

[Malacandra]

And, to stay on topic, I don't think they could have been the same person because Aslan killed Jadis at the end of LWW.

Gosh, if only I'd thought of that single vital point. :rolleyes:

I agree, but there's no end of argument about how the White Witch could have been brought back to life. You have read the thread, yes? :p

[pappy]

so have we reached any conclusions here? I would agree that the WW and the witch in the SC are not the same person. The WW is too much of an egomaniac not to brag that she was not completely defeated by Aslan. There are some similarities in them both being evil but there are too many differences for them to be the same person.

But what about the origin of the WW that we see in the MN and mr. beavers' comment about her origin? Do these match up? if so, how? did cs lewis make a mistake or just change it for the sake of writing the last book?

[~Lava~]

Little reminder when Aslan takes some one out it is for good. He decides who lives or dies. Aslan killed Jadis!! The thought though probably came from the chronicles themselves where Lewis said that they were doubtlessly of the same type. Maybe the Lady of the Green Kirdle trained under Jadis.

[Darth Sparhawk]

It is interesting that in my edition it is written that they are the same person, but it always sounded weird to me.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

You'll probably find that the only place it is "written" is in the cover blurb. There's no indication in the text itself. People who write cover blurbs are employed by the publishing firm and sometimes know very little about the book.

[Copperfox]

Let me repeat here what I said to LifeMaiden in her story thread. When I read a Russian-language translation of "The Silver Chair," the translator proved to have taken an unauthorized (no pun intended) liberty: he made the Russian text say that the Green Witch WAS Jadis herself. I wrote to Douglas Gresham to tell him about this, pointing out that it would compromise Aslan's omnipotence if Jadis could come back after He killed her. But Mr. Gresham, whatever his reasons, told me that it didn't bother him.

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

in the character and cast names in the beging of the book it says they're one and the same.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

The character and cast names? What, they have some kind of list? If so, it was drawn up by the publisher, not Lewis, and is a mistake. The text itself does not state that they are the same, nor does it give any indication or even hint to that effect.

[Darth Sparhawk]

The character and cast names?
Yeah, it was befor book one and it was something like "Jadis is very dangerous as you can see in "Magician's Nephew", LWW and Silver Chair"...
But it was from the publisher, not the author, of course. I remember than in BBC series the witches were different.

[~Lava~]

They were played by the same person in the BBC version, but they are not the same.

[Darth Sparhawk]

Thanks for the info. :)