Expand a Theory

[Euphrates]

I have this theory about Jadis that I would like you all to critic for me. Also, if anyone wants to expand on the idea, let me know. I don't have the necessary time to write a lot, but if someone else does... I can see this turning into a prequel to the Chronicles. Anyway here's the theory, briefly:

Back on Charn, the ruling class (Jadis' people/family) were not corporeal beings. They were spirits that inhabited bodies, and some of the "host" rubbed off on the spirit inhabiting the body. So the "personality" of a spirit expressed through the host body would change in some ways from host to host. Also, when the host body of a spirit (like Jadis) is killed, the spirit is severely hurt but not killed. When Jadis came to the world of Narnia, she was in one host body, and that body (not the spirit) was given certain powers ("endless days" and strength). Jadis dwelled in that body, and came to be known as the White Witch. Aslan killed the host body of Jadis and she (the spirit) passed on into another body, her new host. She moved from host to host for many years, plotting to retake Narnia. One of the host bodies, is called "the hag" in PC. In this body she thought she could trick the Prince into summoning back her previous body, but it didn't work. In one of her following bodies she found a way to enslave the underground people (what were they called?) and get them to start digging a tunnel toward Narnia. Then she changed host bodies again and became what we know as the Lady of the Green Kirtle (the Green Witch). The underground people were then enchanted to think the Green Witch was the same person as had previously enslaved them, so they continued to serve her. She captured Rilian and enchanted him also. When Rilian killed her, the spirit of Jadis moved on to another body. And so on and so forth...

[Warrior-Poet51088]

Well, first I'd like to know if you're asking whether we agree with your theory, or if we think Lewis would support it.

I find it interesting! Correct me if I'm wrong though, but there's not much, if any, support for it from the stories.

I'd say it's a literary device used as sort of a second antagonist.

Before DoLW says it (lol, no offense!), it's spelled "critique." :rolleyes:

[Euphrates]

Right, but one who critiques is called a critic. Replace "critic" with "judge" to make it a little clearer. If I meant critique, I would have said "I would like you all to critique it for me." My use of the word within the sentence like that stems from debate jargon I've learned... except in the debate community it's spelled kritik because of German existentialism.

Anyway, the theory is only supported by the books in a very indirect way. For example, it preserves the WW's death in LWW and also provides support for the view that the hag in PC and the Green Lady are also Jadis. Her appearance and abilities (slightly) change when she moves from body to body.

No one should "agree" with this theory because it's only a theory. Any ideas about how to change it for the better are welcome.

My knowledge of CS Lewis is quite limited, but I don't think he intended on Jadis being anything like "the supreme spirit of evil from Charn", so he probably wouldn't agree with the theory. But I do think he would see its benefits, and how it fits into the overall theme that he established in the Chronicles (i.e. Aslan did not create evil when he created the world, evil was brought into the world by humankind, and evil will not die with the death of a particular individual).

I guess my question is: do you like it? Does it suck? Are you suddenly enlightened by the possibility? Does it not fit into the Chronicles of Narnia at all?

[The Prince]

It sounds good I is probly not what C.S.L whas thinking when he wrote the CoN but it acctully helps make some things more clear so ya I geuss it sounds good :)

[rosymole]

Of course it doesn't suck! No theory can really (unless you count some very bizarre ideas i once had about the 1848 revolutions in Europe..anyway..)
The idea of the spirit of evil being in each of the beings you've mentioned is quite plausible, although I'm sure that's what was intended anyway; the need for an ever present malignant force is required for such stories, and they do seem to follow a pattern- the bewitching of innocents by a temptress, the cruelty under her and then the glorious victory.
There certainly was, supporting evidence can be found in the texts, that Jadis and the WW were in someway connected, and it seems reasonable to believe the Lady of the Green Kirtle was also of the same stuff. The hag in PC i think was just an old hag - maybe linked in some way to the others. But the idea of the host bodies sounds a little to sci-fi for me..
still, good theory tho!

[Eruname]

I like the theory. It helps to explain the Lady of the Green Kirtle and Queen Jadis' similarities...

[Bitter Milton]

There certainly was, supporting evidence can be found in the texts, that Jadis and the WW were in someway connected

If i remember correctly, Jadis was the WW.

This is an interesting theory. I imagine that the Lady of the Green Kirtle was connected to the WW, but i don't know if the Hag was.

[Euphrates]

Yeah, maybe not. But she sure tried to get Caspian to bring back the WW (which, according to the theory, would be to bring back her powerful body).

[rosymole]

If i remember correctly, Jadis was the WW.

.

Der! Yes, they were in fact the same person! Sill Rosy! I think I meant the LotGK - I do this you know, but it's worse if you bring Gandalf and his various forms into- temporal carnage!

[Bitter Milton]

Hahahaha! I was rolling on the floor after that remark about Gandalf!

Yeah, I think its entirely possible that the LotGK and the WW were either directly connected or one in the same.

[Wallis]

I may have found a hole in the theory that Jadis was both the White and Green witch. Chapter 15 of The Silver Chair, the last paragraph in the chapter: ". . . that those Northern Witches always mean the same thing, but in every age they have a different plan for getting it."

This does not mean that Jadis' hatred does not continue to wage against Narnia, as she may have "spawned" the first coven of witches. But as to her being (re-)incarnated as each witch conspiring to overthrow Narnia, I believe that this one sentence pretty much takes the air out of the theory.

[Euphrates]

Well, if we assume the theory to be true, and whoever said that statement was unaware of Jadis' true nature (which it seems everyone in Narnia was, with the possible exception of Aslan), it would have just been out of ignorance. I don't have the book with me, but if that statement was in the narration my theory would not work. But since characters are often mistaken, it wouldn't effect the theory much.

And, actually, that statement could help the theory because "those Northern Witches" could be Jadis. I mean, are there ever more than one "Northern Witch" present in any of the stories at the same time? Maybe every time Jadis moves into another body, she goes back to the north (probably the mountains) and so it seems, to the Narnians, that there are multiple Northern Witches.

[The Prince]

It could very well be so If nothing else idn't Aslan say something about humans bringing trouble to Narnia by bringing Jadis so no matter how you look at it they are in some way connected
Wow I'm Smart :D

[inked]

I have always understood that Jadis was the recurring Northern Witch(es). Rather like Sauron in LOTR, who keeps popping back though in ever-less-powerful modes. In this sense the ambiguity of the remark allows the interpretation without difficulty or straining the context. The increasing weakness over the life of Narnia is shown by the decreasing ambit of power. After the Stone Table sacrifice, Jadis' power was broken over the whole of Narnia. But it did continue to crop up in lesser manners wherever willing subjects were found or were willing to "call up the Witch". Sounds rather familiar in our primary world, doesn't it?

That Jadis was not human is made clear by the Beavers in LWW. Remember, they said she based her claim to governance on the "fact" that she was human when she was not! The animal memories go very far back.

[Euphrates]

In this sense the ambiguity of the remark allows the interpretation without difficulty or straining the context.
I do not know what this means.

[waterhogboy]

I think it means you can make it whatever you want to make it without altering the point of the story? Am I right??

[inked]

I meant that you could conceive of all the witches as Jadis without doing damage to the story. Or you could say they were all different. This one remark by itself won't answer the question. But if you look at all of TCON and how the "main" witch, Jadis, is portrayed and the comments about her, I think my first sentence is the best way to look at the data. But I won't say everyone MUST think that. (But once a witch in Narnia, always a witch in Narnia, I say! :eek: )

So, I believe we agree, Waterhogboy!

[Warrior-Poet51088]

But once a witch in Narnia, always a witch in Narnia, I say!
.........Bear it well, sons of.............wait a minute!........

I knew that sounded too familiar to be right! (lol, I just found the phrase you used to be amusing, and I wanted to expand on it!).

[Wallis]

You might say that evil rears its evil head in many guises. If Lewis wanted to "personalize" the world, the devil, and the flesh as Jadis in one book and as the green witch in another and the ape in the last book, then certainly the evil has not changed--just its appearance or guise.

[inkspot]

Perhaps the devil always has a "white witch" in waiting, not the same woman, but the same spirit -- and it's the spirit which is the evil part of her.

One of my clients who specializes in Bible prophecy and believes there will be a human "anti-Christ," who will actually come to world domination, believes that in every generation, the devil has an anti-christ ready, and when all the other events are in place for his ascension (as it were) the one who is on deck at the time will receive the evil spirit and become the one prophesied.

If that's how it works, that evil Jadis spirit could manifest through any willing person in Narnia -- from the lady in the Green Kirtle in the Silver Chair to the hag in Prince Caspian. In a way it would be Jadis, but in a way, not.

[Lyra Chappell]

[
CS Lewis dubs Jadis (Queen of Queens and the terror of Charn) "half a jinn and half a giantess". The Jinn were the children of the immortal Lilith- Adam's first mate, made to exit Eden following her refusal to lie beneath Adam as his wife- by Lucifer's army of fallen angels. Legends of the Jinn say they are immortal but can assume human or animal form, and that they may do good or harm, as they wish. Stories make them capricious, their humor malicious, but they sometimes protect children and the honest poor, and they enthusiastically punish human greed, arrogance malice and cruelty.
Jadis could be recalled because her immortal essence fled into the great void (the Void Aslan walked out of at the beginning of Narnia's creation). Lewis has a character ask if there has ever been a witch who was really, truely dead. I'm not certain if Hitler was specifically in Lewis' mind, but modern youth's fascination with Hitler, the Third Reich and their occult associations illustrates too well what he was saying.