What is atheism?

[jesusfreak]

Does anyone now what an Athiest is? I know it's a religion, but what does it teach?

JesusFreak

[Rohan Princess]

ok i'm not an athiest, i've never been an athiest, so i can't give you the perspective of an athiest.
anyway....athiest believe their is NO God, no absolute being, most of them believe in evolution, and think the world today is all we have and no afterlife. that's all i know

[jesusfreak]

thanks Rohan Princess.

[Eveningstarz_4]

Aethiesm isn't a religion, because they have no religion. They really don't believe in anything that isn't seen.

[Aslan's Son]

Atheists don't acknowledge the presence of God, Satan, Heaven, Hell, angels, etc. and don't believe in religion and tend to rely on science for the proof of everything having to do with the supernatural and the world. However, a few atheists I know believe in some sort of higher power, but not God.

[inkspot]

I think you could make the case that atheism is a religion for some people, if you believe a religion is a matter of faith. Some atheists have an outrageous faith that there is no God! despite much evidence in creation which points to the hand of a Creator.

Some atheists are so passionate about their faith that there is no God, they try to force it on other people -- like those who want "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States, or those who want "In God We Trust" removed as the motto of the USA, printed on our coins. They are every bit as devoted to their atheism as some people are to Christ or Islam or Hinduism.

Some are even more devoted to making people believe there is no God than some of us believers in Christ are devoted to introducing people to Him.

In this case, I would say atheism has become, to them, a religion.

What do you think?

[EveningStar]

I think you're right. Any cosmology that relies on faith is a religion. An athiest is someone who has faith there is no God because one cannot design an experiment to prove (or even gather evidence) that God does not exist.

So, by Biblical standards, they have the "assurance of things unseen".

Those who push athiesm are usually bitter because they felt profoundly disappointed when they lost their faith or they were harmed by some other person who was acting in the name of their faith. Some athiests, for instance, might lose a son in Iraq fighting the insurgency and blame sectarian violence. Such a person might think that if people stopped believing in God they would stop fighting wars over him.

They are entitled to their own opinion but I hate having it thrown in my face and I hate disproportional attacks on overt expressions of religion in society. The idea of being offended to see a manger scene in front of Town Hall when it's really no more offensive than a turkey or pilgrim at Thanksgiving or a leprechaun on St. Patrick's Day.

[Jill Pole Queen of Narnia]

I heard on an interview that Skandar Keynes is an athiest.

[inkspot]

I heard on an interview that Skandar Keynes is an athiest.
It's true, I think that was posted here. :(

[DeplorableWord]

In this case, I would say atheism has become, to them, a religion.

What do you think?

That's interesting, inkspot, I never really thought about it like that before--- I agree completely with you now, but it's interesting to think about how atheism could be a religion... I always thought of a religion as more of a faith, or a belief, involving some form of a god. But I can see atheism as one now.

Also, jesusfreak, atheists don't have to believe that there is not a God, Devil, heaven or hell- I guess always they don't believe in a god or a devil, but I have a friend that is an atheist that believes in heaven and hell--- to me, extremely rediculous logic. It's impossible. I try to ask her, "well, then how were (or who created) heaven and hell created?" But, I always drive her into a corner and she says that she "doesn't want ot talk about it." :rolleyes:

[inkspot]

LOL, I don't think a real atheist can believe in heaven or hell, I don't think they can believe in any kind of afterlife. Because I think their faith is predicated on the idea that there is nothing which cannot be scientifically proven. So souls or ife beyond this life can't be proven. But I could be wrong.

The idea of being offended to see a manger scene in front of Town Hall when it's really no more offensive than a turkey or pilgrim at Thanksgiving or a leprechaun on St. Patrick's Day.
LOL! I feel those leprechauns are an egregious breach of the wall of separation between church and state! :) Them and their pot o' gold ...

[PrinceOfTheWest]

In the interest of precise philosophical terms, let me make a differentiation here. The term for a person who believes in nothing more than what can be "seen" (i.e. known through the senses, or "empirically verified") is "materialist"*. By definition, a materialist would be an atheist, since a supreme God would, by definition, be outside the material realm and thus not empirically verifiable.

However, it could be possible for a person not to believe in a supreme God yet still believe in unseen forces. People who don't believe in God yet believe in "auras", lesser spiritual beings, "psychic forces", and the like would qualify here.

There was a strain of materialistic rationalism that started on the European continent in the late 1700s that formed the basis for "The Enlightment". However, it wasn't long before people began to choke on such a dry intellectual diet, and so within two generations you began to see renewed interest in the unseen. Since these people had mostly turned their back on orthodox faith, they turned to cheap substitutes. This is why you see a resurgence of interest in spiritualism, fortune-telling, mesmerism, and other odd stuff in the 1800s and early 1900s. (Interestingly, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, whose Sherlock Holmes was the very embodiment of the triumph of materialistic rationalism, became obsessed with the unseen world and spent a good part of his life chasing reports of fairies and sprites.) You saw "California variations" of this following the 1960's.

Point being: somebody doesn't have to be a materialist to be an atheist. Also, someone can be a theist without that belief having any impact on their moral life. History is full of gods who made no moral demands on their followers.

---------------------
*a common misuse of the term "materialist" is in the sense of "obsessed with material goods." A better term for this would be "consumerist".

[inkspot]

Oh, right, Prince, I mixed up materialism and atheism. So an atheist could believe in heaven or hell, if he thought of them as places where eternal souls go, but with no God to send them there ... It would be a tough fit, I would think.

[Jood]

Atheists believe in NOTHING!! Well, least no spiritual beings around us. Most believe in Evolution (craziness).

[Arona]

I think there is no atheis in this world. many people say they are atheis just because they don't believe in God but they made science, their jobs, their idols ;) or their own to be god in their life. There are many things in this world called god but only Christ Jesus is the real one.

[Señor Puntos]

Atheists believe in NOTHING!! Well, least no spiritual beings around us. Most believe in Evolution (craziness).
Yes, evolution is so logical it's illogical :rolleyes:

I think there is no atheis in this world. many people say they are atheis just because they don't believe in God but they made science, their jobs, their idols ;) or their own to be god in their life.
I have no god in my life. I do what I feel is right but I don't restrict myself by exact rules.
There are many things in this world called god but only Christ Jesus is the real one.
I'm so glad you aren't trying to stuff God down our throats :)

[waterhogboy]

I have no god in my life. I do what I feel is right but I don't restrict myself by exact rules.

Well, couldnt you argue that the god in your life is in fact yourself. In the same way that I might live my life to please the Christian God, you would live yours to please your god - ie. you????

[Mar]

Well, couldnt you argue that the god in your life is in fact yourself. In the same way that I might live my life to please the Christian God, you would live yours to please your god - ie. you????
wow, i never thought of that!
it just seems very empty to me to live your life with no God or porpose.

okay..well im gonna keep my mouth shut cuz i dont want anyone to get mad at me!

[Señor Puntos]

Well, couldnt you argue that the god in your life is in fact yourself. In the same way that I might live my life to please the Christian God, you would live yours to please your god - ie. you????
I live my life to try and please me--and those who I care about. You could say my family and friends are my gods with that argument.

wow, i never thought of that!
it just seems very empty to me to live your life with no God or porpose.

okay..well im gonna keep my mouth shut cuz i dont want anyone to get mad at me!
Never be scared to state your opinions. You have your own opinions, and if people don't like them, well, that's there loss not yours.

[waterhogboy]

Yeh - so you're not really an athiest, cause you have faith in yourself, family and friends. A true athiest, like Mar said, is a very sad person cos their lives are empty and meaningless.

[Señor Puntos]

Yeh - so you're not really an athiest, cause you have faith in yourself, family and friends. A true athiest, like Mar said, is a very sad person cos their lives are empty and meaningless.
I consider myself more agnostic than atheist actually. I don't know what to believe in, so I believe in what I know.

[inkspot]

Good for you. No sense in believing there is no God if it's possible there is One.

[the freak sisters]

Does anyone now what an Athiest is? I know it's a religion, but what does it teach?

JesusFreak


Athiests are ppl who believe there is no God or anything of the sort. They think the store made up the Bible and that us christions made up God cause we were bored. Im not an athiest and never will be. I have only heard it from other athiests. Any other questions please PM me. they think we evovled from apes or something!! Personally I think that if they think a store made the Bible up then they should be able to tell us who amde it.

What do you think?? PM me back please

[LifeMaiden]

Does anyone now what an Athiest is? I know it's a religion, but what does it teach?

JesusFreak


It isn't a religion. It's the belief or idea that there is no God.

[Gondor Knight of Narnia]

Actually it IS a religion, despite how Atheists would protest it's not. It's a belief system,as are other false religions.

[LifeMaiden]

Well, I guess I can see that 'atheism' as a 'religion' ...there's an amazing amount of material that discusses 'why God does not exist'. One of the most prolific writers about atheism is the Marquis De Sade, not surprisingly. I have some of his works, and he usually includes a long chapter or dissertation as to 'why God does not exist...'

Interesting reading.

[Gondor Knight of Narnia]

Mayhaps so, but Curumo phrased this so nicely:
The reality is, no matter what a person chooses to feel or believe, it doesn't take away from reality.I've never been to taiwan, never seen it, and if i choose to believe, then to me it doesn't exist
Isaiah 40:21-25
21[You worshipers of idols, you are without excuse.] Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? [These things ought to convince you of God's omnipotence and of the folly of bowing to idols.] Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22It is God Who sits above the circle (the horizon) of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; it is He Who stretches out the heavens like [gauze] curtains and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in,

23Who brings dignitaries to nothing, Who makes the judges and rulers of the earth as chaos (emptiness, falsity, and futility).

24Yes, these men are scarcely planted, scarcely are they sown, scarcely does their stock take root in the earth, when [the Lord] blows upon them and they wither, and the whirlwind or tempest takes them away like stubble.

25To whom then will you liken Me, that I should be equal to him? says the Holy One.

that may be talking primarily about Idolatry, but it could also apply to those who say "There is no God." there's also this-Psalm 14:1-3
1The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God "
They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;
There is no one who does good.
2The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there are any who understand,
Who seek after God.
3They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

I forget the exact passages, but in Psalms it talks about Creation declaring God being the Creator. If you look closely, you will find things in nature are quite organized.

Man if evolution were true and things were 'formed' randomly from some big bang it'd be really ugly...

[ILoveJensenAckles]

ok i'm not an athiest, i've never been an athiest, so i can't give you the perspective of an athiest.
anyway....athiest believe their is NO God, no absolute being, most of them believe in evolution, and think the world today is all we have and no afterlife. that's all i know
ok well im an athiest and i belive in some type of an afterlife but its not like a heaven or a hell type of thing.
im not really i guess you could call it a mainstream atheist becasue i belive in opposits like good and evil.

[onlymystory]

There's a book I really like called, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist. It just sort of points out all the things an atheist has to believe in to be an atheist and it takes a lot of faith to believe all that stuff.

[IAMAWOMANHEARMEROAR]

Hey. Well, an atheist is not a religion at all. It's someone who simply denies any divine being that created us. Atheists believe that humans were created by many theories other than God's creation or any god for that matter. Agnostics believe that we can never know whether there is a god or not. Have a nice day.

[EveningStar]

The problem with athiesm is that it makes an assertion that can never be proven.

Christians say that God appeared to man and revealed His existance.

Nobody can reveal their non-existance. And something as sophisticated as the existance of a prime mover cannot be inferred or dectected by human ingenuity. The best athiests can do is attempt to show that our world as we know it MIGHT have come about without the help of a God. They can't show that it DID.

John B.

[Aitoren]

Atheists don't believe that there are any gods whatsoever. That religion of any kind is some sort of scam that everybody else has fallen into. Often times they refer to sufferring in the world, saying how could this happen if a god existed, etc., which shows how most of them came to be atheist simply because they weren't educated about their old relgion (if they had one) enough. So to them, the only source of creation is evolution, or the big bang theory, which are alright to believe in even if you aren't an atheist, but they simply believe that they happened spontaniously, with no 'Intelligent force' behind it.

[echoscot]

But atheism isn't just limited to creation, obviously. They don't believe that there are any gods whatsoever. That religion of any kind is some sort of scam that everybody else has fallen into. Often times they refer to sufferring in the world, saying how could this happen if a god existed, etc., which shows how most of them came to be atheist simply because they weren't educated about their old relgion (if they had one) enough.


Welcome to the forum, Aitoren, actually the creation issue was in response to a specific question earlier in the thread where someone asked how do atheists believe the world was created. There are more in depth responses to other aspects of atheism both here and a similar thread in the Christianity section.

[Feet]

in my mind, atheist is believing no God and making a God inside him/herself...so they trust that everything takespart naturally and prayer to God is not so useful...they just believe that evolution...
and they always trust him/herself in every way they do, they thing it's right

[HarryPevensiePotterGirl!!]

Atheism isn't a religion cuz they don't use faith to believe something. They don't believe in that kind of faith. You don't use faith to believe that something doesn't exist. Faith helps you believe IN things. They believe that there is no god or gods but that's all they have in common.

Religions do things like pray, worship, act a certain way, have moral codes, and stuff like that. Atheism doesn't do any of those. Religions have things like gods, prophets, sacrifices, goals, and an afterlife. Atheism doesn't have any of those. It's not a religion.

They believe that there is no god. Christianity believes there is a god. You can't prove that there is no god. And you can't prove that there is a god. Everyone asserts something that cannot be proven. That doesn't make it a problem for Atheism.

[onlymystory]

I'm a little confused by your post. Faith is a belief in something that can't be proven. If you can't prove God doesn't exist but you still believe he doesn't than that seems like faith to me.

[Tweetsie]

Wow... that's actually a good question. It is literally just "No God" because, to an atheist, there is no God, no heaven, no hell, nothing at all like that. But I myself see atheism as just "no religion". I mean, as in, there is no religion, because there is no God, heaven, hell, etc.

EDIT:

Atheism is a belief, not a religion. A religion could accurately also be called a "faith", and since the point is there is no faith in God, etc. that's what it is. A belief, and an idea, and a viewpoint. Mostly the scientist viewpoint. And Skandar... I wouldn't worry about him. Religion wise, I'm growing up in the same type of household as him, (atheist and agnostic, except my parents are both and his are atheist)and people like us read up on stuff and learn about it usually. But we don't neccessarily have to believe in it.

[echoscot]

Wow... that's actually a good question. It is literally just "No God" because, to an atheist, there is no God, no heaven, no hell, nothing at all like that. But I myself see atheism as just "no religion". I mean, as in, there is no religion, because there is no God, heaven, hell, etc.

EDIT:

Atheism is a belief, not a religion. A religion could accurately also be called a "faith", and since the point is there is no faith in God, etc. that's what it is. A belief, and an idea, and a viewpoint. Mostly the scientist viewpoint. And Skandar... I wouldn't worry about him. Religion wise, I'm growing up in the same type of household as him, (atheist and agnostic, except my parents are both and his are atheist)and people like us read up on stuff and learn about it usually. But we don't neccessarily have to believe in it.


Actually the question that has been debated here is that it probably takes more faith to be an atheist, there are certain things that one would have to believe in: The off-chance creation of life in the first place by sheer statistical probabilities is phenomenal, that requires faith; The willingness to live the 70 or so short years on earth with no real purpose or further awareness, and to do so with some sense of optimism, that requires faith; the willingness to trust to the science and wisdom of man alone, that takes tremendous faith.

In addition, people are religious about a great many things other than God. Their cars, tv shows, Harry Potter books, The Chronicles of Narnia ( I know no one here has ever heard of this, but it is a great set of books and I think a couple of movies have been made) :p

Based on that plus more that there just isn't time to write, you could justify atheism as a religion in and of itself.

[Tweetsie]

I don't know. I've never really seen my religionas that. But I may come off as a confused bumbling idiot in this stuff. But I AM more culture than most people. Despite the fact that my parents are atheist/agnostic, they have made sure we know about every single religion out there. (we went to like... 50 catholic churches in Croatia. FIFTY.)And they know about them too. They also support us making our own decisions on religion and things like that. It's probably the best thing, but somehow I wish someone had decided for me. And it does take faith to be an atheist, but I believe it's more of faith in your ideas, not in other people. (Jesus, God, etc.) :eek: I wanna learn about that Harry Potter religion! :p Haha. :rolleyes:

[echoscot]

I don't know. I've never really seen my religionas that. But I may come off as a confused bumbling idiot in this stuff. But I AM more culture than most people. Despite the fact that my parents are atheist/agnostic, they have made sure we know about every single religion out there. (we went to like... 50 catholic churches in Croatia. FIFTY.)And they know about them too. They also support us making our own decisions on religion and things like that. It's probably the best thing, but somehow I wish someone had decided for me. And it does take faith to be an atheist, but I believe it's more of faith in your ideas, not in other people. (Jesus, God, etc.) :eek: I wanna learn about that Harry Potter religion! :p Haha. :rolleyes:

Sounds like you are more of an agnostic, but to your statement of someone making a decision for you, I have to disagree. I think any belief best formed is one that you make for yourself.

I can attest that as a Christian, I do not put much "faith" in a person who tells me they are a Christian because that is what Mom and Dad are. I find a person is better grounded in any set of beliefs because they have discovered for themselves what is true and what is not.

[Tweetsie]

Personally, I just want to be able to discover that. I'm so lost on this religion subject, particularly since it becomes a bigger part of people's lives as they get older, and I just don't know what to be. It would make my life so much simpler if I knew what I wanted to be, it's just, I don't, and I don't want it forced down my throat (and neither does Skandar, I bet *cough*)

I do know a Christians and other religions who only believe in it because their parents do as well. That ticks me off, because it's your life, and what are they going to do when their parents aren't there? Who's going to spoonfeed them with information then? Same goes with politics for that.

[echoscot]

Careful about going into the politics thing, but on the faith side, I can attest that although I have never found a denomination or Church that I 100% agree with, I know that Jesus is the Son of God and the Christ. I have a relationship with Him that has grown through the years. Yes, I have acted like a hypocrite many times and I have screwed things up, but I am still forgiven and know who my Lord is.

That is a discovery each person must make on their own. It wouldn't hurt for you to get some of Lewis other books, like Mere Christianity, and read through it. It can be a difficult read at points, but he asked a lot of the same question you are. I would recommend finding a Bible, one that you can understand there are many good translations out there, and read the Gospel of John. Ask God if He is real that He show Himself to you.

It is up to you dear one what you will ultimately believe, but it will have a critical impact on the rest of your life, possibly forever.

[HarryPevensiePotterGirl!!]

I'm a little confused by your post. Faith is a belief in something that can't be proven. If you can't prove God doesn't exist but you still believe he doesn't than that seems like faith to me.
If that is the definition ur using, then faith isn't a sufficient condition for a religion. Not everyone who has faith in something has a religion. Nothing in science can be proven 100%, as any scientist will confess. But science isn't a religion. Same with Atheism. They believe something that can't be proven, but that doesn't make them a religion. Besides, they don't do things that most religions do, and they don't believe in the kinds of things that most other religions believe in. There's just nothing religious about Atheism.

[Citrus]

I'm an atheist! Basically I don't believe in any god. I have no problem with people of other religions (atheism is not really a religion it just means you don't believe in a god) the only thing that annoys me is when people try to push there religion on you! I could get into why I’m an atheist and why I don’t believe in a god but that usually gets people mad and they start to hate me… My hero is sort of Charles Darwin so that would explain a lot.

[inkspot]

Surprisingly, Charles Darwin began life as a Christian and considered a career as a minister. And we now know, (you can check it out at http://www.narniafans.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6373&highlight=christianity+atheism) that evolution as Darwin described it is a very flawed theory. If you are basing your atheism on Darwin, you might want to make sure you have the facts about what his theory actually says and whether it is valid.

[narniarox]

Atheism is a faith, and a religion. Scientists admit that evolution takes an equal amount of faith as creationism does, so why not the same way with what we view as religion vs. atheism. In order to be an atheist you have to believe that everything is a coincidence, there is no Greater Plan and no Greater Being. You also would have to believe that there is really nothing beyond death. I personally find that far harder to fathom than Heaven. However here is the catch: if a christian dies (and there is no God) He/She doesn't know anything and neither does anyone else, but if an atheist dies (and there is God) then I am sure you know what happens to Him/Her. Atheism Supports living simply for yourself and literally worshiping yourself, and an abyss of lack of hope filled with despair and nothingness. Then we leave no mark and have no consequence (when Logically our every move affects everything and are every action is woven into Time for Eternity). And we can do whatever we want to. Our conscience does not exist, and Love is an irrelevent primordial feeling. Everybody is worshiping something whether they realize it or not. So, to make a long story short Atheism is worshiping of yourself and "Religion" is worshiping a Higher Being.

[HarryPevensiePotterGirl!!]

So that makes Atheism different from a religion. But I thought you said Atheism is a religion.

Like I said before, religions have many things in common. Take a handful of religions and see what they have in common. Then take those things and see if Atheism also has those. Then you'll see that Atheism isn't a religion.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Actually, the modern version is a religion by the admission of one of it's most vocal proponents, a fellow by the name of Feuerbach. (Never heard of him? I'm not surprised - he was kind of a behind-the-scenes fellow. But you've probably heard of a couple of his disciples: Neitzche and Marx.) Feuerbach contended that mankind needed to replace a belief in God with a belief in Man - his capabilites, his future, his betterment. One of his critics pointed out that he was just replacing God with an abstraction - "Man" - but that otherwise it was a religious construct, with faith, a creed, an eschatology, the whole nine yards. Feuerbach did not deny this! Furthermore, those who followed in his footsteps, specifically the facists through Nietzche and the marzists through Marx, were quite explicit about the faith that their respective worldviews required.

Interestingly, even the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized atheism as a religion. In footnote 11 to the Torcaso vs. Watkins decision, they stated:
Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism, and others. See Washington Ethical Society v. District of Columbia, 101 U.S. App. D.C. 371, 249 F.2d 127; Fellowship of Humanity v. County of Alameda, 153 Cal. App. 2d 673, 315 P.2d 394; II Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences 293; 4 Encyclopedia Britannica (1957 ed.) 325-327; 21 id., at 797; Archer, Faiths Men Live By (2d ed. revised by Purinton), 120-138, 254-313; 1961 World Almanac 695, 712; Year Book of American Churches for 1961, at 29, 47.
So here the Supreme Court is recognizing secular humanist atheism as a religion.

[HarryPevensiePotterGirl!!]

Secularism and Humanism believe in the concerns of humanity over the concerns of spirituality and that there is no god. That makes them partly Atheist, but only partly. Atheism is the belief that there is no god. You can add things onto Atheism, like the belief that human concerns are paramount, but that turns the Atheism into things like Secular Humanist Atheism.

All that is to say that there is a different between Atheism and Secular Humanist Atheism. Atheism believes x. Secular Humanist Atheism believes x+y. The "y" part of the belief gives it some religious flavor.

But remember that a brief comment made in the decision of some SCOTUS case does not settle the issue here. Also, SCOTUS was probably using a definition of religion that is more modern, such as: "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."

[echoscot]

Secularism and Humanism believe in the concerns of humanity over the concerns of spirituality and that there is no god. That makes them partly Atheist, but only partly. Atheism is the belief that there is no god. You can add things onto Atheism, like the belief that human concerns are paramount, but that turns the Atheism into things like Secular Humanist Atheism.

All that is to say that there is a different between Atheism and Secular Humanist Atheism. Atheism believes x. Secular Humanist Atheism believes x+y. The "y" part of the belief gives it some religious flavor.

But remember that a brief comment made in the decision of some SCOTUS case does not settle the issue here. Also, SCOTUS was probably using a definition of religion that is more modern, such as: "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."


Your definition of religion is hardly modern. The Bible recounts histories of various religions that can fall under that definition.

Though you have a point that one comment in a SCOTUS case does not settle an issue.

[HarryPevensiePotterGirl!!]

I said the definition is modern because it was the fifth definition in the dictionary out of five definitions. That's how the dictionary works. The first definition is the earliest, and the last definition is the most recent.

But bringing SCOTUS into the issue isn't helpful.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

It is helpful in the sense that it illustrates that educated people have and do recognize atheism (of which secular humanism is a form) as a belief system. In fact, the very quote I excerpted from the decision was intended by the justices to support their contention that a religious system was not necessarily a theistic system. In other words, you don't have to have a god to have a religion.

Nobody knows better than I that a Supreme Court decision does not settle a question. What it does do is indicate that people who carefully study issues are better qualified than those who don't. Thus, when HarryPevensiePotterGirl!! says
Then you'll see that Atheism isn't a religion.but a bunch of the most educated jurists in the land say that it is (as well as many other philosophers and theologians), then I'm more inclined to believe that the jurists know what they're talking about.

[echoscot]

I said the definition is modern because it was the fifth definition in the dictionary out of five definitions. That's how the dictionary works. The first definition is the earliest, and the last definition is the most recent.

But bringing SCOTUS into the issue isn't helpful.


Every dictionary is set-up a little different, but I have never seen one set-up that way. Usually it deals with commonality of usage. The first definition is the most common down the line until the last definition is the least common. That is how Webster's and Oxford are set-up at least. :o

[Tweetsie]

I don't know really perfectly. It's hard to know, when you live in an Atheist/Agnostic household. We stay out of a lot of the religious stuff, but in the US it's hard to avoid religions. But what I find interesting is a lot of Agnostic and Atheist people are a lot more devoted to learning ABOUT other religions that other religions might be. My parents believe we should know about both sides of our family's original religion- Jewish and Roman Catholic. So we celebrate Christmas and Channukah, as well. But I guess, in a lot of ways, that sort of thing doesn't come to me as a religious holiday, but just a chance to be with the people I love- my family.

So I think I'm more cultured than a lot of people in the religion things, and if you came in my house, you'd be amazed at how many books we have on the theory of this religion or that.... it's kind of funny. :rolleyes: But anyway, atheism is just the belief that there is no God or god, heaven, hell, the devil, Jesus, etc. It's pretty simple actually.... What I have to say about taking "Under God" off the coins is just that... some people that aren't Christian or Jewish, don't have that same one "God" as Christians. They have a different one, so why shouldn't we put on the coins "Under Allah". Just pointing that out. It's just trying to keep the equal thing straight.

[Citrus]

I don't know really perfectly. It's hard to know, when you live in an Atheist/Agnostic household. We stay out of a lot of the religious stuff, but in the US it's hard to avoid religions. But what I find interesting is a lot of Agnostic and Atheist people are a lot more devoted to learning ABOUT other religions that other religions might be. My parents believe we should know about both sides of our family's original religion- Jewish and Roman Catholic. So we celebrate Christmas and Channukah, as well. But I guess, in a lot of ways, that sort of thing doesn't come to me as a religious holiday, but just a chance to be with the people I love- my family.

So I think I'm more cultured than a lot of people in the religion things, and if you came in my house, you'd be amazed at how many books we have on the theory of this religion or that.... it's kind of funny. :rolleyes: But anyway, atheism is just the belief that there is no God or god, heaven, hell, the devil, Jesus, etc. It's pretty simple actually.... What I have to say about taking "Under God" off the coins is just that... some people that aren't Christian or Jewish, don't have that same one "God" as Christians. They have a different one, so why shouldn't we put on the coins "Under Allah". Just pointing that out. It's just trying to keep the equal thing straight.

I agree with you. The thing that annoys me with most religious people is that they don't know anything about other religions and claim there's is the best...

And all I meant by my “hero” is Charles Darwin is that I think the theory of evolution is more likely than the bible version. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Oh, no offense. In fact, I admire your faith - it takes a lot more faith to believe in Darwinism than just about anything else, especially in light of modern microbiology.

[inkspot]

I agree with you. The thing that annoys me with most religious people is that they don't know anything about other religions and claim there's is the best...

That is a bit of a generalization. Perhaps "most" of the religious people you know don't know anything about other religions, but many of us, right here in the Dancing Lawn, know a lot about many different religions, and are learning more all the time. In fact, CS Lewis (one of our heroes here at the narniafans) knew a lot about many religons and compared their similarities in a book entitled The Abolition of Man. And yet, knowing all we know about many different faiths and atheism/Darwinism/Evolutionism, we still choose faith in Christ. And not because we are dopes -- some of us are real smarties!
:)

[Citrus]

I've noticed alot of you are more open and exepting to others here. It's nice for a change!

[inkspot]

I've noticed alot of you are more open and exepting to others here. It's nice for a change!
Good, I am glad you think so! We are a pretty nice bunch, and we try in general to be kind with each other.

If you get into any of the theology/religious threads, our rule is never to make a personal attack, but we have all agreed we won't be too sensitive when it comes to someone questioning our theory and beliefs, as long as they do so with logic or scripture, not just by saying, "I think that's a dumb belief!" Usually things perk along pretty well.

:)

[Tweetsie]

I agree with you. The thing that annoys me with most religious people is that they don't know anything about other religions and claim there's is the best...

And all I meant by my “hero” is Charles Darwin is that I think the theory of evolution is more likely than the bible version. Sorry if I offended anyone.
I know what you mean. I sing at an Episcopal (sp?) church, because I have nowhere else to sing, and I like to sing, and people there can be a BIT forceful sometimes. But that is church- and that is different. I do not like it when they all go on about how other religions are bad and so and so because of this and that- especially when it's really not like that. Because of my family's religion- or lack of, my parents want to keep us cultured to the most ANNOYING extent. (We go to SO MANY churches and synagogues and mosques and who knows what else on our vacations...) So I know about a lot of religions because they say it's "your choice" and it is. But sometimes, around the US, it feels like it's not your choice. Especially when you hear people going on and on about their religion (usually christianity) near you, and it's as if they're forcing it on you. But you get used to it, really.