Book Exchange Corner!

[Ithilien]

well, I have been running out of good books to read lately, and I don't think I'm the only one. I think it would be a good idea if everyone exchanged ideas on what books you like, which ones you would recommend others to stay away from. Why not include a book review?

[faeriechylde]

Hey, that sounds like a great idea to me. :)
Of course, a lot of things depend on taste... I personally am obsessed with fantasy books aimed at middle-school aged kids (don't ask me why, because I'm almost 20!).
One book (in this genre) that I think you shouldn't read is Eragon, unless you are interested in writing this type of story and want to know what NOT to do. I still am trying to figure out how this book became a bestseller...
What are my criticisms? For one thing, it has no plot. It's a sequence of short climaxes with disappointing conclusions. After a while, it gets monotonous (until the end, which is worth reading, but by then I was so tired of the book that I couldn't enjoy it). Secondly, everything in it is a rip-off from something else. The concept of dragon riders comes straight from Anne McCaffrey's books, the species that inhabit the land are straight out of Tolkien, and the young boy who is suddenly thrown into crazy adventures, guided by an old, wise mentor, can be found in way too many tales (Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain come to mind, not to mention Merlin with young Arthur, Dumbledore with Harry Potter, or Obi-Wan with Luke Skywalker!).
There are a couple of things I enjoyed in this book, though. One of them is the werecat. For all I know, he isn't an original idea, either (he kind of reminds me of Salem in Sabrina the Teenage Witch, lol), but his lines are at least witty and amusing to some extent.
Now, if you want to hear what I recommend that you DO read... well, start with The Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia C. Wrede, or The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander. These both have sympathetic characters, semi-original ideas (or else at least parodies on old, worn-out ideas), and a lot of witty humor.

[Daughter of Eve]

I have to disagree with faeriechylde.

I recommend Eragon. I really really enjoyed it. Sure, it's been used before, but the twists were a little different, and you know, it's AWFULLY hard to come up with a completely original idea for fantasay anyways nowadays as so much stuff has been written. I adored the story, and am waiting breathlessly for Eldest to come out.

I also highly recommend The Chronicles of Prydain as well. I love them very much, and the tales are quite good. I got a little impatient in several parts, lol.

Along the same fantasy lines, The Pendragon Cycle by Stephen H. Lawhead is EXCELLENT! Quite possibly, nay, it is definitely, my favourite version of the Aurthurian legends. I love it. I've read Taliesin, Merlin, and Aurthur, and just recently found out about Grail, Pendragon, and the other one. So I'm trying to get my hands on those. :D

[Dernhelm]

I second both "The Enchanted Forest Chronicles" and "The Chronicles of Prydain"! Also other books by the same authors except "The Boy and the G....n" (I cannot remember the spelling for the life of me... something like Gangoin...only that's not it) by Lloyd Alexander. It's horrible!
All books by J. R. R. Tolkien, of coarse!
Sherwood Smith I have...recomemded before, but I'm going to do it again...she's a good writer, she write's interesting books, and nobody's ever heard of her:(.
You can look at reviwes of her books here:http://www.sfsite.com/02a/cro50.htm
and here:http://www.bookloons.com/cgi-bin/Review.ASP?bookid=2151
They don't do justice to her books, but they give you an idea!~

[Ithilien]

Now I shall I continue after I was rudely interrupted by the bell...

I must agree with Faeriechylde on Eragon. The book seems to be more of a scrapbook of various materials and small details drawn from other books. It is boring, typical, and generally, terrible.

The book I would reccomend to all sci-fi fans out there is Isaac Asimov's "I, Robot". Unlike the movie, which is actually drawn from the second novel in the series, the book is a collection of short stories about artificial intelligence, and how strange incidents and loopholes can still occur within the 3 laws every robot is bound to. Excellent book!

[pacifiquesea]

If you're looking for something outside of the fantasy realm, a fantastic book is Memoirs of a Geisha. It's written by an American but he did extensive research on geisha lifestyles, especially the lifestyles lead before and during WWII. The main character is a girl from a fishing village who becomes a prominent and successful geisha, and it follows her through her whole life.All of the characters are interesting and well developed. This book was not out of my hands from the time I picked it up until the time I finished it. When I finally put it down, I desperately wished for it to be a true story.

[Sojourner]

Another good series out side of the Fantasy realm is Zion Chronicles
now within the Genre of Fantasy I would recommend anything written by Tamora Pierce

[tgraveline]

Oh i've heard lots about Stephen Lawhead. I want to read the pendragon cycle too. Shoot, i have too much to read these days. AHHHHHHHH

Oh and the fantasy element, there are new ways of implementing it i believe, you have to begin to mix it with other genres i think. Thats sort of what i am doing with my books. So we'll see if it works now, lol.

tg

[rosymole]

Terry Practchett! 'nuff said the man is a genius!

[tgraveline]

Ok, what about terry goodkind? I see his name all over the place, but I have never read him. Also the runelord series, anyone read that? I forget the name of the author of that.

tg

[faeriechylde]

Another good series out side of the Fantasy realm is Zion Chronicles
now within the Genre of Fantasy I would recommend anything written by Tamora Pierce
I agree with you on the Zion Chronicles (though I personally think the Zion Covenant was a much better written series). I haven't read Tamora Pierce, but my sisters have and don't really like her. What is it you like about her books?
I agree that Terry Pratchett is good, though I've only read one of his books...
Stephen Lawhead is also amazing, though I found the books I read of his (the Celtic Crusades) to be a little dry and wordy. I still enjoyed them immensely, though. Besides, I've heard his Pendragon Cycle is amazing.
Right now I only have time to read for school, so I'm afraid I can't give a whole lot of recommendations. (Unless you want me to recommend Virgil's Aeneid, lol. I just read it for World Lit. It's really good if you get the right translation... I also read Goethe's Faust, which I didn't enjoy quite as much.)

[Dernhelm]

Another good series out side of the Fantasy realm is Zion Chronicles
now within the Genre of Fantasy I would recommend anything written by Tamora Pierce
I would dissagree myself; my friend reomended Tamora Pierce, and everybody says that anyone who likes Sherwood Smith will like her, but I think S.S. is much better than T.P., you get a good story without the bad ethics and false gods.

[faeriechylde]

I would dissagree myself; my friend recommended Tamora Pierce, and everybody says that anyone who likes Sherwood Smith will like her, but I think S.S. is much better than T.P., you get a good story without the bad ethics and false gods.
I have not read S.S., but I will have to sometime... My sisters had very much that complaint against Tamora Pierce: she seems to glorify a sort of ruthless feministic independence that I would find distasteful. I'm not saying that I always have to agree with all the ethics displayed in a book, but I don't usually enjoy the book if the author makes his or her immoral views too pervasive in the story.
I have another series I want to recommend: The White Pine Chronicles by Hilda Stahl. It's a sappy romance series, I admit, but it has some really good historical content. If you ever thought that Michigan history was boring, you should read these books. They'll change your mind. I have read them several times each and I never get tired of them. I think Hilda Stahl is one of the greatest authors of Christian historical novels I know of.
While I'm on the subject of historical novels set in Michigan, I would also recommend The Loon Feather by Iola Fuller. If you are interested at all in books about interaction between Native Americans and white settlers on a personal level in the early 1800s, you should definitely read this book. I've read it several times and like it more every time I read it.

[faeriechylde]

Hey, Dernhelm, I'm thinking of grabbing a couple of Sherwood Smith books from the library: do you have any specific ones you would recommend?

[Dernhelm]

"Crown Duel" and "Court Duel" probubly have the best writing; her other books "Wren to the Rescue", "Wren's Quest", and "Wren's War" are also very good. If you like them, please e-mail Firebird Books and ask them to pub. more; she has almost 40 books that are unpublished!

[Capstick]

I've read a bunch of Stephen Lawhead's books, and I'd certainly recommend The Pendragon Cycle to everyone, but with some caveats:

I think it is a good series, and I especially liked the fact that Lawhead writes as a self-conscious Christian - however, I do not think he is a very good writer. He is not very good at setting up dramatic tension - often his situations end up in anti-climaxes; I didn't care too much for his anachronistic-style of writing: he kept going back and forth in his time periods; Arthur deals with one point in time, but then the next book in the series backtracks - it can get a bit confusing at times, and it destroys any suspense that is built up. For example, I thought that Grail was the best book in the series; however, it was not as good as it could have been because, after having read Arthur (the 3rd book in the series) I KNEW how the ending would work out - obviously Lawhead can't kill off certain characters because we know that they survive.

As much as I enjoyed the Pendragon Cycle I thought it could have been a lot better. Another example: Lawhead sets a situation up early on in the series where there is a conflict between the Druids: there are those druids who want to follow Christianity, and convert, and those druids who want to go back to the old ways of human sacrifice and paganism. This could have been developed into a really neat situation, but we really don't get anything more about this conflict - its almost as if Lawhead decided to drop it as a plot point.


Conclusion: The Pendragon Cycle is worth reading - if for nothing else, its nice to see a book on Arthur that is written from a Christian perspective. However, I wouldn't recommend getting any of Lawhead's other books - for the most part, I thought they were pretty borring.

[GrayCloak]

True Chappy, but I will give Lawhead hats off on the fact that he knows his Welsh mythology. The first book in the series 'Taliesin' has parts which are so similar to the original legend of Taliesin that they could have been copied and pasted. Not to slam the author, but I thought that alot of his work was reminiscent of Mary Stewart's 'Merlin Trilogy' which was published a good deal before the first of the 'Pendragon Cycle'.

Personally I thought the 'Merlin Trilogy' was a much better series of books then the 'Pendragon Cycle' but I would still recommend Lawhead's Arthur books, if nothing else for the Merlin character in them who was, to me, the perfect portrayal of the 'druid' councilor.

And just my two cents, but I think everyone who likes King Arthur should read Le Morte d'Arthur by Sir Thomas Malory.

[DryadofLanternWaste]

On the topic of Lawhead has anyone read his Song of Albion Trilogy? They're pretty interesting though they start off dreadfully slow and end with kind of a what not fair/couldn't you come up with something better. I think the only charcter I truly appreciated was Tegid.
anyway moving on.
Another author I liked, though the writing style is simplistic, is Robert Don Hughes, he's pretty original, though mostly out of print. His Pelmen Trilogy offers more promise and doesn't fulfill it and is in that light saddening. Still, I would recommend them. His two prequels: The Forging of the Dragon and the Faithful Traitor are better.
Madeline L'Engle is good for elementary/middle school first time around, I didn't find them as good the second time. Someone mentioned before anything Tolkien: I agree.
The order I would recommend is LotR, Sil, UT, Lays of Beleriand (If you like poetry). I personally disliked the Hobbit. *throws up hands to block angry Hobbit Lovers mob*
Screwtape letters, Space Trilogy, anything Lewis...
If I think of anything else I'll post it.

[faeriechylde]

Thanks, Dernhelm, I'll check those out.
Dryad: Watch out! I'm the Angry Hobbit Lover! Haha, just kidding. I do love The Hobbit, but I won't beat you up...
I disagree with you on Madeleine L'Engle, too. She has written some books in which nothing supernatural (at least overtly) ever happens, and I find those to be so boring I could barely read them the first time, not to mention "the second time around," as you put it. However, I think her time/space travel books are amazing works of art, especially Many Waters and A Swiftly Tilting Planet. I have read those several times and never get tired of them. I think they have some deep thoughts in them that few elementary/middle-schoolers could fathom, so I would be wary of giving them up utterly after that age.

[Ithilien]

I highly recommend the book the Neverending Story. In my opinion, it is the best fantasy ever writtn. It is about ever reader's dream of being magically transported to the world in the text. It is beautifully written and has a dreamy quality. It is definately my favourite book of all times.

[faeriechylde]

That's interesting... I've read The Neverending Story, and I didn't like it very much. The first half, I thought, was good, but after that it seemed to drag on and on with no real conclusion. I think part of it may have just been that it wasn't a very good translation: the original Neverending Story was written in German, and when a book's original language isn't English, one has to be careful to get a good translation or the book can be ruined. Who translated the one you read, Ithillien?
Yay! The Sherwood Smith book I requested came in at the library. I have to go pick it up, now.

[Dernhelm]

O, good!:p Which one? (I don't mean to bug you about it; please tell me if I'm being to pushy!)

[faeriechylde]

I got Wren to the Rescue, and yes, I like it a lot so far, but I can't read very much because I have to read other stuff for school. :( I'll let you know what I think of the whole book when I get done. (No, I don't think you're being pushy: it's okay.)

[Aeryn]

I'm new here. I have always been a Narnia fiend. I have to buy a new set - mine are worn out!

I would recommend Guy Gavriel Kay's 'Fionavar Tapestery' trilogy. What a wonderful series! Not too many heroes make me cry.

If you can find it, Joy Chant's 'Red Moon, Black Mountain' is another good one.

I just finished book 4 of Robert Jordan's 'Wheel of Time' series. 4 down, at least 7 more to go, but what a series.

I have read 3 books of Terry Goodkind's 'Sword of Truth' series and enjoy that one too, but he does seem to have a sadistic streak.

Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series is a fun read, too.

I LOVE Pern. Todd's new book is out in hardcover now.

[faeriechylde]

Welcome, Aeryn! :) Sounds like you have good taste, lol. At least, all the books you mentioned sound really good. I've never read any of them (except Narnia, of course). :D But I hope to someday! Especially the Wheel of Time series. I've heard a lot of good things about it.
By the way, you should introduce yourself in the Introduction thread (it's in the forum called "Tea with Mr. Tumnus"). That's probably a good place to start when getting to know this site... Have a great weekend!

[Soli_Deo_Gloria]

For those of you who like historical fiction about the middle ages (Fantasy readers might) I suggest The Black Arrow by Robert Louis Stevenson and Robin Hood by Henry Gilbert. Black Arrow goes into a discussion of the ramifications of war in the second part. The Robin Hood story is drastically different then any other version I have read. Unfortunately both of these books are somewhat hard to find in print. Luckly they are both on the web at http://www.kellscraft.com/blackarrow/blackarrowcontents.html and http://www.kellscraft.com/Robinhood/robinhoodcontent.html respectively. More recently is the book Gideon's Dawn by Michael Warden. Great analogies of Christian life. He's not Lewis but he's good. WARNING: The publishing date for the sequel is up in the air due to a publisher switch. The wait is almost as bad as waiting for LWW to come out on the silver screen. Another set of cool books is the Kingdom Series by Chuck Black. All are analogies to various points of Biblical history. Off the Fantasy/Middle Ages kick is the author Ted Dekker. Fanasty readers will like Black, Red, and White. The Guardian-King Series by Karen Hancock is not bad either. The plot winds alot, but overall not bad. For those who don't mind Middle School level reading the Redwall series by Brian jacques is great.
I second Lewis's Space Triliogy. I feel cautious about Eregon, while I enjoyed the story despite its obvious borrowing from other series, the scene of fortune telling is unnerving to me. Useing bones to tell the future is obviously witchcraft in our world. It mimics actual occultic pratices too closely for my taste. I have the same reservations about the Redwall series.

[faeriechylde]

I understand what you mean about the "fortune-telling" in Eragon, Soli_Deo_Gloria (may I call you SDG?), but we need to be careful about judging books because they have something that (in our opinion) approximates witchcraft. Obviously a secular writer is not going to have his characters pray to God before making a decision or trying to figure out the future. In fact, even Christian writers sometimes have God speak to their characters in weird ways (C.S. Lewis openly has his centaurs read signs in the stars, and Tolkien has the hobbits glimpse the future in Galadriel's mirror).
I think the more important element in a book is its overall moral tone. Is there a defined good and evil? Are the "good" characters really fighting for the good? Does the author condone or condemn his or her "good" characters for making bad choices? If a "good" character is using some kind of supernatural power (such as "fortune-telling"), it is only justifiable if the source of the power is good (or at least neutral) and the reason for using it is good.
That's where my real concern with Eragon lies. I couldn't find much morality in the tale. The whole ethical system seemed turned on its head: instead of Eragon being the protagonist because he is fighting for the good, Eragon is the protagonist, therefore whatever he fights for is good. That is a crucial difference.
Okay, sorry, I'll stop philosophizing about this now. :) If what I'm saying doesn't make any sense, feel free to call me out on it.
Sorry for debating with you as soon as you joined, SDG! I really do appreciate your warning for those who are uncomfortable with reading books containing certain magical practices. It is an area requiring a lot of wisdom and discernment. While you're posting warnings like that, I'll help out and say that The Chronicles of Prydain, which I recommended earlier, have similar methods of fortune-telling in them, as well as other moral implications that I disagree with. I still think it's a good series, but be warned! ;)

[Soli_Deo_Gloria]

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I had not thought the actual moral basis. Interesting point. Then again finishing the book at 0300 did not help the whole comprihesion thing.
SDG sounds fine, way easier to type too.

[faeriechylde]

Wow! Someone who actually thanks me for my advice. :D You're very welcome, SDG. You can call me fae, by the way. Everyone does. :)

[jennyjenjen56]

I loved Eragon, Ive read it more than once. Although I feel a bit of a kinship with the author, he is only a year older than me and lives only two hours away from me. IF you have ever seen paradise valley you know where the spine came from. Or if you live in Montana you can see the world Eragon lives in. The way the weather acts and everything. I haven't read those other dragon rider books so the way the dragon acts is a new concept to me and I love it. I can't wait for eldest. :)
I recently read a series called the lost years of merlin. I really like it, certain books are better than others but they are all really good. Its about merlin as a kid. Very fun!! Im also currently reading the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy, very good! :) I know some of you might not like harry potter but at a harry potter site, www.mugglenet.com (http://www.mugglenet.com) they have a section called the book trolly. Its written by a pastor, he reviews books. He also puts in what kind of content they contain. heres the link http://www.mugglenet.com/booktrolley/index.shtml. He has over views of tons and tons of books. Most of them fantasy, not all of them are but most. Its cool! :)

[Ithilien]

[QUOTE=faeriechylde]Who translated the one you read, Ithillien?
QUOTE]

I read the version translated by Ralph Manheim...Are there any others?

[faeriechylde]

:D I don't know if there are any other translations or not, but the one I read was Ralph Manheim, too. I guess the book just wasn't to my taste. Or maybe it was the mood I was in... I'll check it out again in a few years, maybe.

[Ithilien]

hmm....that should help...I used to love Susan Cooper. I pcked it up again recently and just couldn't get into it. Maybe the opposite might happen to you!

[faeriechylde]

Augh, i hate susan cooper, lol. well, at least, i didn't like Darkness Rising very much, which is the only one of her books that i read. i think that was susan cooper, right? :confused:

[waterhogboy]

Has anyone read these books. I've read all 10 in the series and am on the prequel to it - A New Spring - at the moment. They are some of the most amazing books ever written. They're quite different from other books of the same genre.

[faeriechylde]

Yes, the Wheel of Time series has been discussed here before. Everyone so far has shared a very good opinion of it. I haven't read any of the books yet, though. School has kept me too busy. :(

[tgraveline]

of course, of course! I have read the books, just not new spring, i'm just hoping good ol robert lives long enough to finish the series. Very addicting series it is and well writting beyond most. Glad you like it.

tg

[faeriechylde]

Hey, Dernhelm, I finished Wren to the Rescue, and I really liked it. Thanks for recommending Sherwood Smith to me. I unfortunately don't have the time to read any of her other books right now (I'm behind in my school reading!:(), but I'll make sure and recommend her books to people.
Hey, everyone! If you like fantasy books for elementary to middle-school aged girls, you will really like anything by Sherwood Smith! ;) I couldn't put Wren down! :D

[Dernhelm]

:D I'm so glad you liked it!

[DryadofLanternWaste]

I just finished Quo Vadis and I suppose I would recommend it. Its not terribly exciting, but I enjoyed it. It is a book about the founding of Christianity and there are some gruesome things about the martyrdom of the Christians and some shall we say briefy "icky" parts involving Nero's court, but nothing really descriptive. The story is a romance with a widening plot that goes beyond the them into the history of Rome. there is a *very* slight shakespearen feel to it in the language. It was good, but it dragged. Worth trying even if you don't finish it, but find a good translation unless you can read Polish.

-DoLW

[faeriechylde]

Hmm... sounds interesting.
I'm reading The Brothers Karamazov right now for my Russian Lit. class, and I would highly recommend it. So far, anyway (I'm not even halfway through). It is very long and philosophical, though, so don't even try unless you're ready to think. However, it's not only philosophical, or I wouldn't like it. It also has an intriguing plot and a couple of sympathetic -- or at least very interesting -- characters. It's a great study of human struggles with faith and temptation, the effects of broken families, and a lot of Russian culture. If you do decide to read it, make sure you get the Vintage Classics version, translated by Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky. I hear it's the best translation out there.
Caution: Because of the lifestyles of some of the characters in this book, I would definitely rate it PG-13.

[The Prince]

Good books to read... well the halo series is good so are all the different Star Wars books and theres another one i enjoy Soldier Boys Well thats all i got

[LadyMe]

I suggest "The Giver" by Lois Lowry...it's really well written and it's kind of realtity/fantasy.
The Madeleine L'Engle books ("A Wrinkle in Time"; "The Wind in the Door", ect) are great books too....I like the way that she really makes you think.
And of course LOTR books are great.
Another "not well known series" is the "Dragons in Our Midst" series by Bryan Davis (www.dragonsinourmidst.com). They're exciting, and I reccomend them to all....
that's all I can think of right now. I love to many books to name, though. :)

[DryadofLanternWaste]

I suggest "The Giver" by Lois Lowry...it's really well written and it's kind of realtity/fantasy.
The Madeleine L'Engle books ("A Wrinkle in Time"; "The Wind in the Door", ect) are great books too....I like the way that she really makes you think.
And of course LOTR books are great.
Another "not well known series" is the "Dragons in Our Midst" series by Bryan Davis (www.dragonsinourmidst.com). They're exciting, and I reccomend them to all....
that's all I can think of right now. I love to many books to name, though. :)

I read The Giver in sixth grade and found it rather creepy, I suppose it was in the same sense as Brave New World, which I read this year. It leaves you to think, and gives some realizations that are somewhat frightening. Definately a good book though.
You all know my stance on Tolkien already, lol.
LadyMe out of curiosity, do you know what reading level Dragons in our Midst is at?

-DoLW

[LadyMe]

12-16 maybe? I think that people over 16 might enjoy it too. I lent the books to a friend of mine and she let her brother read them and he is 19 and he loved them. So I guess it just depends.
They aren't really mystical and "scary" in that kind of way (if you know what I mean) it's more of a "king arthur" kind of story. Actually, there is a lot in there about King Aruthur...just not so "magical", I guess you could say.
Oh, and it's a christian book, which makes it really good! :D

[Ithilien]

If you like The Giver, I reccomend the book, "1984" by Orwell and "Fahrenheit 451" by Bradbury. They're about similar societies. In 1984, the ending is rather an anti-climax. Otherwise, it is quite good. There actually many more books that are similar to The Giver but I just can't think any at this moment!

[Ithilien]

I just finished reading the greatest book! (I feel like I am monologuing!) Any Ender's Game fans out there? I just finished reading the last of the Shadow series, Shadow of the Giant. It is amazing! I highly recommended it to sci-fi lovers!

[minime]

I loved Ender's Game, and along with it Ender's Shadow and down the line. I also loved many of the books mentioned here. For those who like fantasy, good humor, and lovable characters, I recommend The Princess Bride by William Goldman. Goldman wrote the screenplay for the movie, as well, but it's a pale representation to the book.
Out of curiosity, since they really haven't been mentioned on this thread, is there a moral opposition to the Harry Potter books on this site?

[Thanatos]

I read Lightning by Dean Koontz. But i dont know if that has been mentioned yet. There were a lot of pages to read, and i really didnt feel like going to every single one. SO if someone already mentioned it, ignore me.

Personally i am not a big Harry Potter fan, actully i dont like them at all. I dont really know why, but many think i would b/c i enjoy mainly fantasy novels. I think it is b/c the whole wizard plot has been done too many times, and is getting old. (please dont flame me) I kinda see it as many of the great fantasy novels all put into one, and unoriginal. (yea everyone hates me now) But that is just me, please dont kill me.

[Ithilien]

I find Harry Potter a little uncreative too. It's entertaining but not fulfilling. Speaking of fantasy and wizards, has anyone read the Wizard of Earthsea? It is my second favourite fantasy book of all times. It has such a romantic mood.

[GrayCloak]

I find Harry Potter a little uncreative too. It's entertaining but not fulfilling. Speaking of fantasy and wizards, has anyone read the Wizard of Earthsea? It is my second favourite fantasy book of all times. It has such a romantic mood.

That about summs up how I feel about HP-I've never read the 'Wizard of Earthsea', but only because I haven't had enough pocket money to pick up the first of the books at Barnes and Noble.

On an un-related book genre, has only else here read the book 'Phantom of the Opera'? I just started it-very interesting. The Phantom's certainly not the man portrayed in the movie.

[waterhogboy]

There is some discussion of the Harry potter books in the Relationships between CoN and Christianity thread...

[Thanatos]

I thought for sure that i was going to be screemed at.
I want to read The Wizards of Earthsea. My cousin has the book, and he hasnt let me borrow it yet. I dont have any money (anything i get i have to save for my Japan trip) so i cant go buy it.

[pacifiquesea]

I read Earthsea and was unimpressed. There was little character development, though it spanned four books! The world was very interesting, and the plot was oK, but I certainly didn't love it. It was lacking that essential spark that makes a book great.

[nickumsix]

well, gosh, i'm really surprised. all these fantasy recommendations and nobody brings up philip pullman's 'his dark materials' trilogy. well, i'll bring it up. i think they're really fantastic (they're the ones titled the golden compass[or the northern lights], the subtle knife, and the golden compass). they do have a tendency to be a little abrasive as far as political/religious views go, so i wouldn't read if you're easily offended and would raise a stink about it. the church is the main motivating villain in the story, and lots of plot devices hinge on the thin balance of morals and religion, but they really are an amazing example of fantasy writing. i highly highly recommend them.

while we're on fantasy, i second the recommendation of michael ende's the neverending story. it's the book i most closely associate with my childhood, so it will always hold a place in my heart. another book i'd recommend is momo, also by ende. it's a little bit hard to find, but it's worth it. truly beautiful writing. the only gripe i have is the translation. whereas the neverending story is, in my opinion, beautifully translated, momo is very roughly done. ralph manheim is a brilliant translator (i've actually read a few books just because he translated them), the way he phrases things are so much more... meaningful sounding i guess than most translators. this is most evident in his translation of grimm's tales for young and old. i've actually sat down with a couple of other editions and compared specific phrases, and manheim's are the only ones that really do the trick. his translations make it hard to believe they were written in german originally. i'm almost finished with his translation of gunter grass's the tin drum. i really recommend it to any one with patience and a strong stomach. i don't really know how describe it in any other way than, well. it's just really good. other non fantasy books i would recommend:
the world according to garp by john irving
a heartbreaking work of staggering genius by dave eggers
a tale of two cities by charles dickens (the best book i've ever read in school, which is weird since i really don't like anything else by him)
pretty much anything by truman capote
the grapes of wrath by john steinbeck
the child garden by geoff ryman (this is actually sci fi, the only book i've ever enjoyed in the genre)
lolita by vladimir nabokov (truly disturbing and unsettling, but superbly written)
midnight's children by salman rushdie
underworld by don delillo (not the movie. it's about a baseball)
interpreter of maladies by jhumpa lahiri
ragtime by e.l. doctorow
the tin drum by gunter grass (i know i already talked about it, but it deserves being mentioned again)

well, that's a short list. i read a lot. that was just a list of favorites off the top of my head. i'm going to stop typing now.

[Ithilien]

I think I put the neverending story in my first post on this thread. That is my favourite book (His Dark Materials ranks close!). Nickumsix, what other books did Manheim write and are they good?

[Thanatos]

I love His Dark Materials!!!! I was a little dissapointed with the ending, but the rest of the series made up for it. It sure was a great series!

[holyboy]

harry potter is a graet book to read for kids that are reading seriously for the first time. i no i hated reading books of anykind, fantasy action sci-fi, u name it, i hated it. but then i got harry potter and i literally threw it on the ground, finding the perfect place to put it. like under my bed.

however, i actually read it 2 try it out, and the first chapter didn't set up the story, but rather, start it. Other books spend the first chapter explaining, but JKR split the chapter in half, with some explanation and some action.

Without HP i wouldn't have enjoyed reading, and i would have never read some great books like CoN

[Ithilien]

well, there are many books out there that are better than HP. I just finished reading Brave New World. It was so wonderfully creative! Somehow, it still didn't quite measure up to the Giver (probably just because I read that first). I'm starting Asimov's Foundation series and its pretty good!

[rosymole]

I love His Dark Materials!!!!

Oh yes- I loved the originality beind them - not necesarily the creation of worlds etc, but the treatment of the characters - very adult themes but in a way that is easily understood- some peopla may critisise them for the anti-God message in them but I didn't feel affected by that really, not that I am mega-religious anyway, but any leanings I have i that way weren't bothered at all- Philip PUllman is a very clever man!

[Hope96]

Okay, I'm gonna throw some author's names out there that haven't been mentioned yet. They aren't along the fantasy theme, which seems to be the majority interest here, but I'll put it out there anyway. :-) I'm a HUGE christian fiction reader, it's hard to name specific books because I've read so many, but here are a few of my favorite authors:

Frank Peretti --- one of the best christian fiction writers out there. He's got some unbelievable books that deal w/spiritual warfare. His writing really makes you picture what the spiritual realm would look like if we could see what's going on. I've read so many of his books I wouldn't be able to count them all.

Two other author's that I really like are Bill Myers and Alton Gantsky.

These three are probably my favorite (outside of C.S. Lewis of course.) You wouldn't go wrong reading any books by any of these authors.

[waterhogboy]

His Dark Materials are good. Ive only read Amber Spyglass and Half of Northern Lights so they dont make much sense to me.

[Ithilien]

I'm not too sure if the series is anti-God like some people say. In fact, I interpret it as the fall of Satan.

[she-elfwarrior19]

im reading a book called rabbit ship down. It is quite good it is a bout a rabiit warren it really shows the real life of rabbits on a rabbits perspective

[Thanatos]

im reading a book called rabbit ship down. It is quite good it is a bout a rabiit warren it really shows the real life of rabbits on a rabbits perspectiveI thought that book was called Watership Down. Mayb that is just here it is called that. If it is the same book we are talking bout, then i have read that book also.

[Ithilien]

I only know a watership down too. It's pretty violent, eh?...something enexpected of little bunnies.

[Ithilien]

No response? how depressing...Anyways, new topic: has anyone read Brave New World or 1984?

[waterhogboy]

Ill reply - I sort of watched the Tv series but would usually turn over cos it was quite boring - funny theme music..........

There - I replied!!

[rosymole]

1984 is an incredible book, and look out, it's coming true..ish!

[Ithilien]

thanks you two, you have preserved my self-esteem.

Anyways, on the topic of 1984, I thought it was a bit of a let-down. It didn't seem to really stand out in its depiction of a totalitarian state. I thought Brave New World was much better. Would you actually mind living there?

[Mudpuddle]

May I suggest The 1001 Arabian Nights? Yes, there are a 1001 stories in this classic. I would recommend the E. Powys Mathers translation over the one by Sir Richard Burton (which is online - http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/index.htm)
The Mathers translation is in four volumes and can be ordered on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415045398/002-2624603-8842431?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
Complete - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415045436/qid=1118554077/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-2624603-8842431
There is an excellent translation by John Payne of these tales, which unfortunetly is out of print. His translation can be found online however. It is much better then the truly archaic and dense Burton version, without caving in completely to modern English as the Mathers translation. It has a nice feel and flow to it. The Payne is the one I would have in my bookcase if it was ever reprinted.
http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Payne/tnon/tnon01.htm

[she-elfwarrior19]

Whats are they exactly about? I think i have an idea but i wanna know more

[Mudpuddle]

The 1001 Arabian Nights are short tales of enchantment and magic basically. Some are cautionary tales - look before you leap, don't be too greedy, be ready to show mercy rather the wrath etc....Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves and the voyages of Sinbad the Sailor are the best known stories from this collection. For those who want a good sampling but not the whole nine yards, Signet Classics has a version edited by Jack Zipes I could recommend - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451525426/qid=1118592789/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2624603-8842431?v=glance&s=books

[waterhogboy]

I did not like 1984 at all. I have argued this many a time with my friend. He only likes stories and films that end depressively, whereas I cannot stand such things. Any thing that ends sad is just stupid IMO!

[she-elfwarrior19]

I love to read but a very good book(not my fave) but a very good book is called "Perloo the bold". Its great its like a fantasy but better. It is about this rabbit. Well they are pretty much rabbits, but bigger the walk on there hind legs like humans and use there big feet as ski's. Its great how they live in the story. Anyways im getting a bit carried away, but anyways he has a big task, he doesnt want his people to go to war with thses bad fox dudes. Has anyone ever heard or read this book?

[she-elfwarrior19]

It would also be nice and wicked if they made a movie out of it. Lol even if it was from a small movie company. Another great book is called Montmorency i think iv'e mentioned that one before but if you have read it before you will probably have loved it as much as i did.

[she-elfwarrior19]

It would also be nice and wicked if they made a movie out of it. Lol even if it was from a small movie company. Another great book is called Montmorency i think iv'e mentioned that one before but if you have read it before you will probably have loved it as much as i did.Even better if they made that book into a movie. Anyways im getting carried away. Has anyone ever heard of these books ive mentioned?

[Ithilien]

Yeah, WHB I completely agree. Why read about depressing things when life is already depressing? 1984 was a huge let-down. Anyways, what exactly is Perloo the Bold about?

[waterhogboy]

Yeah, WHB I completely agree. Why read about depressing things when life is already depressing? 1984 was a huge let-down. Anyways, what exactly is Perloo the Bold about?

Exactly!!! Just my thoughts - could you ring my friend and tell him that so he'll shut up!!

[Ithilien]

Um...sure. Would that be long-distance? I wouldn't mind phoning a good-looking Brit!

[waterhogboy]

No I sed to phone my friend not me :D

[Ithilien]

HeHe! Oh, WHB, you didn't exactly cross my mind when I was thinking of phoning a good-looking Brit!

[waterhogboy]

HeHe! Oh, WHB, you didn't exactly cross my mind when I was thinking of phoning a good-looking Brit!

:(

I'll just go sit in my cupboard now....

[Ithilien]

whatever, Harry Potter...

I can't believe i just said (or typed!) whatever! ach!

[Johan 72109]

I did not like 1984 at all. I have argued this many a time with my friend. He only likes stories and films that end depressively, whereas I cannot stand such things. Any thing that ends sad is just stupid IMO!

And guess who's here, WHB... :D

1984. Absolutely amazing. If you look at the way communism worked, 1984 is chillingly accurate. I also like the way that our main character, rather than being a cheesy cliche of a hero, is in fact a pathetic, lecherous, cowardly guy at the end of middle-age... As weak and frail as anyone else. And I find the final part fascinating - the way that a situation can come about where power will never be disposed of, ever... terrifying really, how easy it is. I could go on, but I won't.

Brave New World is good, but not my favourite dystopian novel... It's a little too surreal, and unrealistic... The glistening... almost perfection of the world that has been built, a world without any responsibility, is slightly hard to believe. And I disliked the way the various communities of savages had such a melange of cultures, even if that IS how they would be in reality. Also, I found myself confused by the way the POVs jumped from one character to another... kind of unnecesary.
But I liked the ending... Hehehe, WHB's right, most of the things I like are depressing... Although I do indulge myself with the odd happy film or book from time to time.

In my weaker moments... ;)

[Johan 72109]

Books to recomend. Right.

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, The World Jones Made, and, most importantly, A Scanner Darkly. Indeed, read anything by P.K Dick, except his short stories...

All Raymond Briggs' stuff. They're essentially childrens' comic books, but his art is so amazing, and the stories are definately meant for older people. Especially the likes of Where The Wind Blows, which I (unfortunately) have only seen the film of, and Gentleman Jim. The guy manages to combine humour and playfullness with sorrow and pathos in an amazing way.

H.G Well's War of the Worlds, mainly because the film is out, but partly because it's such a good book.

John Wyndam's books, (but his short stories are better) are all great. His endings are somehow... rushed however, almost as if he just stapled a happy ending on at the end, which doesn't quite fit the subject matter.

There are more, but I am painfully aware that I'm writing a full essay here, so I'll stop. :D

[waterhogboy]

Well as you can already see!! Johan is very odd - thats why I thought he'd settle in well :D Only joshin mate!

I might have to read Brave New World cos its mentioned in my RE course. We're doing bout the ethics and religious views on cloning....

[Sunrise]

Getting back to the fantasy genre, one of my favorite authors is Robin McKinley. She is a master of language and is worth reading just to enjoy the delicious way her sentences slide through one's mind, and she specializes in good strong female characters. I'll list her works, from my favorites down:

The Hero and the Crown - a misfit princess becomes a dragon-killer and saves her country from invasion by an evil magician. Geared toward teen to young adult - I wouldn't go younger than about fifteen due to some vaguely implied extra-marital activity.

The Blue Sword - I put it here because it's a prequel to Hero - a tomboy from a prim Victorian-ish background discovers her true magical heritage in an exotic land.

Beauty: A Retelling of Beauty and the Beast - Exactly that, told from first-person Beauty's perspective and giving some wonderful personal twists to the old fairy tale. *hint: she's NOT beautiful, and she's a bookworm!* Easily geared toward older kids and tweens, but delightful at any age. Even my husband loved it.

The Outlaws of Sherwood - Traditional Robin Hood story, focusing on the tensions between Saxons and Normans. Marian is, predictably, the coolest character in the book, but McKinley doesn't get carried away with her. Robin is the most human you'll ever see him.

Rose Daughter - Another retelling of Beauty and the Beast; slightly more sophisticated than Beauty, but still readable by young teens. I found it somewhat ponderous.

Deerskin - A princess escapes from a traumatic past and with magical intervention rebuilds her life as an enigmatic character. Dark and NOT FOR YOUTH as the trauma involves incest. As disturbing as it is, it's a masterfully written story.

Spindle's End - her version of Sleeping Beauty. A good read, but I feel like she tried too hard to make a simple fairy tale overly complex. Still, it's interesting, if not as engaging.

She also has a couple collections of short stories. Anybody else familiar with her work?

And I have to throw out another plug for Chronicles of Prydain, which are still my favorite books ever.

[Johan 72109]

Has anyone read the Gormenghast Trilogy by Mervin Peake?

[Ithilien]

Nope, but I'm sure you read the Chrysalids! (John Wyndham?!) I really reccomend it to everyone out there. Its wonderful sci-fi!

[holyboy]

Nope, but I'm sure you read the Chrysalids! (John Wyndham?!) I really reccomend it to everyone out there. Its wonderful sci-fi!

You got to read that for school! Instead of reading that, I had to read Of Mice and Men (GAH) Stupid devil english teacher! :D jkjk, she was good, but the book was boring in most parts...

[Ithilien]

That was a good book too. I did it for my ISU. It was a little depressing and pessimistic, though. I prefer it over the Pearl.

[waterhogboy]

You got to read that for school! Instead of reading that, I had to read Of Mice and Men (GAH) Stupid devil english teacher! :D jkjk, she was good, but the book was boring in most parts...

YUSS!! Sorry Rosy - someone else on mine and Inkspot's side!

[unleavened]

I hated most of the books I had to read for school.

[she-elfwarrior19]

the books i had to read for school, were my choice, we just had to do a book report on everyone we read, actually i remember sometimes we would have to read maybe a chapter or two from a book, then answer questions, the book was Harrypotter, so i didnt have to do it,(because Im a chrioctian, and im glad i wasnt the only person who was allowed.

[unleavened]

We spent an entire quarter of the school year on Don Quixote! How? I don't really know. All I know is it was a big waste of time. There's really not that much content. Lots of words, but not much content.

[GrayCloak]

We spent an entire quarter of the school year on Don Quixote! How? I don't really know. All I know is it was a big waste of time. There's really not that much content. Lots of words, but not much content.

I actually loved the book Don Quixote! - (suprising if you know me, because I disagree completly with the underlying theme) I enjoyed the writing style and, I don't know, I just thought it was a really sad book. I could relate to certain aspects of it.

[unleavened]

It was an ok book, but not nearly good enough to spend 9 bloomin' weeks on! I actually enjoyed some of it, but "active reading" (don't ask) and paper writing has a tendency to ruin even the best of books.

[borntofly]

I hated most of the books I had to read for school.
yeah, me too. The only one I enjoyed this year was To Kill a Mocking Bird.

[moonchild]

First off I just have to say Of Mice And Men was bad, compared to all the great books i've read this one just sucks.. the movie was terrible too. I hate the books they make us read at school, Did anyone read Shane? it was bad too
Oh, Ithilien (and whoever else agrees) The Neverending Story was FANTASTIC it's honestly the BEST book I have ever read. I reccommend it to everyone and think that it should replace those crappy books they make us read at school.

Now for some recommendations...
Irvine Welsh - Trainspotting, Porno (Two GREAT books about scottish junkies I can't wait for Porno to come to video)
C.S. Lewis - Out of the Silent Planet ( Some of you im sure have read the series.. I have only read this one but I plan to read the rest. This book was great I really loved it)
Robert W. Chambers - The King In Yellow (grea collection of short stories/plays although the last few ones kinda suck)
ahh i'll be back with more once I remember them

[she-elfwarrior19]

ya to kill a micking bird is good, i love the movie

[heartstringz]

There's a great trilogy by an Aussie author (Trudi Canavan) called The Black Magician Trilogy - the first book is called 'The Magicians Guild'. I really enjoyed it and I highly recommend it.

Getting off the topic of fantasy, I also recommend:

White Oleander - by Janet Fitch (I would probably rate this 15+ for adult themes, sexual references and violence so bare that in mind). This is really good. It is also a movie but the book is so much better. In summary - the girl's mother goes to prison for murder so she is sent through foster home after foster home and the book shows her experiences, struggles, challenges etc.

White Gardenia - by Belinda Alexandra. This synopsis is taken from the HarperCollins site (http://www.harpercollins.com.au/title.cfm?ISBN=0732276276&Author=0018805) - Opening in a small village on the Chinese-Russian border under Japanese occupation in the final days of World War Two, White Gardenia tells the story of a White Russian mother and daughter, separated by war. From the glamorous nightclubs of Shanghai to the harshness of the Siberian wasteland, from a desolate island in the South China Sea to a new life in postwar Australia, and finally to Cold War Moscow, White Gardenia sweeps across cultures and continents. Both mother and daughter must make sacrifices to survive. But is the price of survival too high? Most importantly of all, can they ever find each other again?

The Tomorrow Series - John Marsden. There are seven books in all and I would highly recommend them. They are basically about some australian teenagers camping in the bush and when they get back to their farms they figure out that the country has been invaded and all their families taken prisoner. Being some of the few people who are free they go into hiding in the bush and become guerillas - fighting back to defend their country. It also goes through the dramas, pain and heartache caused by war and the personal struggles and triumps suffered by each one of the teenagers. John Marsden is on of my favourite authors and I would really recommend this series. I'd probably recommend it for late teens or 15+ though because of the violence and adult themes.

[she-elfwarrior19]

im just re-reading LWW. A book i recomend is called Montmorecny, its great/

[Johan 72109]

The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy - a Trilogy in Five Parts. Brilliant series. Absolutely hilarious. The occasional swear word, and one or two scenes with adult themes, so probably a 12 series... It also, being sci-fi, backs up the idea of evolution and can sometimes be offensive towards religious belief... But, to be honest, it pokes fun at science and atheism just as much as it does at religion. All in all, a hilriously funny read.

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

I'm reading The Cross and the Switchblade. It's a really good book, kinda dark, but very spiritual.

[Checkmate]

I recommend the Sword of Truth Series by Terry Goodkind, the Rendragon Series by DJ MacHale (Journal of the Adventures through Time and Space, not Arthur, and not Uther), The Bartimaeus Trilogy (Very inciteful of creatures beyond the physical being such as Imps, Afrits, Djinn, etc.) The Wheel of Time Series... oh boy... A Child Called It.

[holyboy]

I recommend...The Wheel of Time Series

WHB WHB! ANOTHER WoT LOVER!!!!

What book are you on Check? I'm on Book 3 :( but I'm getting there....

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

Oh no, not another.

[waterhogboy]

WHB WHB! ANOTHER WoT LOVER!!!!

What book are you on Check? I'm on Book 3 :( but I'm getting there....

WAAAAAARGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Why didnt I notice that before!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :D

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

God save us.

[Dernhelm]

Great.

(10)

[Johan 72109]

Oh no, not another.
I completely agree. Allow me to spit venom when I say that the Wheel of Time has to be the most overrated, piece-of-junk fantasy series in the history of writing. I liked them up until Book 4, where they weren't quite as bad, but beyond that it's too much... Robert Jordan's taken it too far. :mad:

Hehe... bitter, me? Never :D

[waterhogboy]

Hey HB?? You got the arsenic. If you send it by post to Leeds, I'll slip it into his drink. ;)

[Johan 72109]

:eek:

I will never. Ever. Drink anything. While around WHB. (Or for that matter eat anything... Yes... Probably safest...)

[waterhogboy]

:eek:

I will never. Ever. Drink anything. While around WHB. (Or for that matter eat anything... Yes... Probably safest...)

WHATEVER!!!! Think about it mate - YPF???

[Johan 72109]

Gaagh... *thinks of appetising food and drinks to be had*
Well, I guess I'll just have to go by the adage 'To live is Christ, to die is gain' :) Just one more of the many reasons why the Bible is still applicable to modern life. :)

[Johan 72109]

Woah... it say's 'Senior Member' underneath my name... :confused:

But... I'm a n00b! :(

[waterhogboy]

Anyway - back on subject (tut tut Johan).

Loved Screwtape Letters. Loads of those 'OH how embarassing - I do that' moments. Enjoyed it v. much and am planning on getting myself a copy. A bit rude to ask my sender to pay postage everytime I wanna pick it up again!!!

[holyboy]

Woah... it say's 'Senior Member' underneath my name... :confused:

But... I'm a n00b! :(

Congrats. You have now posted more then 100 posts, which menas you have been accept intot he ranks of members who actually post longer then a day of joining. Welcome to thr club :D

[Johan 72109]

WOOO!!! PARTAY!!!!! :D :D

*notices WHBs baleful expression*

I mean... erm... Ah yes, BOOKS! :o

[waterhogboy]

WOOO!!! PARTAY!!!!! :D :D

*notices WHBs baleful expression*

I mean... erm... Ah yes, BOOKS! :o

OOoooo - baleful!! I'll add that to my 'words to use in intelligent conversation' list!

[holyboy]

OOoooo - baleful!! I'll add that to my 'words to use in intelligent conversation' list!

Must be one short list :D jkjkjkjkjkjkjkjkjk

[waterhogboy]

Gives baleful look to HB.

*puts tick next to baleful on list*

Oh wait, I said 'intelligent' conversation.

[Checkmate]

WHB WHB! ANOTHER WoT LOVER!!!!

What book are you on Check? I'm on Book 3 :( but I'm getting there....
I haven't read them but my brother has and he told me a lot about them.

[Johan 72109]

Argh... the plague is spreading...

[Johan 72109]

Ooh... one book well worth reading for people interested in this kind of thing, (but a bit slow and confusing at times, being a translation,) is Das Boot, by Lothar-Gunther Bucheim. It's based closely upon his real life experiences in German U-boats during WWII, which makes it all the more amazing/heart-breaking to read.

[Thanatos]

IM currently reading the Wastelands (the third book of the Dark Tower series) by Stephen King. This series is nothing like his other books. I abosutly adore these books so far. I cant wait to get to the last one, book 7 The Dark Tower.

[unleavened]

WoT?



10 thing

[borntofly]

what ? WoT? Those are the books Thanatos is reading, is that what you are confused about unleavened?

[Sam]

Hmmm, it seems as though the time is ripe for me to confess a book that I really enjoyed, (any scorn at how nerdy I am will merely glance of my shoulders, so don't bother ;) )

Magician, by Raymond Feist. It was so exciting, and good and fat so the enjoyment went on for a while. There are about a million (ish) sequels, but this is far better than any of them.

[unleavened]

what ? WoT? Those are the books Thanatos is reading, is that what you are confused about unleavened?
What's WoT?

[waterhogboy]

Whats WoT!?!?!?!? How dur you!??! (Anyone wathc Max and Paddy??? ok.. never mind...)

WoT stands for Wheel of Time. Its a series by Robert Jordan which is excetionally brilliant. Book 11 comes out next month and I cant wait!!!!!!

[Johan 72109]

*jumps up and down with glee sarcastically*

Of all the money-spinning schemes in all the world... *mutter grumble whine whinge* :mad:

[unleavened]

Whats WoT!?!?!?!? How dur you!??! (Anyone wathc Max and Paddy??? ok.. never mind...)

WoT stands for Wheel of Time. Its a series by Robert Jordan which is excetionally brilliant. Book 11 comes out next month and I cant wait!!!!!!
Oh. Never heard of it.

[Johan 72109]

It's a fantasy series set in a world that's an interesting blend of medieval and 17th century technology, where there is very little in the way of fantasy creatures, apart from the evil Trollocks and other darkspawn, and the benevolent, long-lived Ogier. Magic is known as the One Power, and is generally treated with great distrust and hatred, as all male practitioners of it are cursed to go insane, and all female practitioners of it (Aes Sedai) are renowned for manipulating and tricking ordinary people. We follow the course of the lives of three friends from a backwater village in the middle of nowhere, and what happens to them in the aftermath of their village being attacked by trollocks, only saved by a visiting Aes Sedai.

Sounds pretty cool idea? Well, for the first few books, it is, genuinely, brilliant... Sure, there's some cliches and naff bits there, but it's good. Then, in my opinion, we get more characters than we can handle, the author tries to add soap opera bits with men and women being matched up left right and centre, and characters get harder to believe.
However, many people like it... Depends on what you want from books I guess.

Phew, that took a while...

[Sam]

And did you know... books one to ten are all available in Bratislava's friendly local English book store. And that means quality, that does.

[waterhogboy]

It's a fantasy series set in a world that's an interesting blend of medieval and 17th century technology, where there is very little in the way of fantasy creatures, apart from the evil Trollocks and other darkspawn, and the benevolent, long-lived Ogier. Magic is known as the One Power, and is generally treated with great distrust and hatred, as all male practitioners of it are cursed to go insane, and all female practitioners of it (Aes Sedai) are renowned for manipulating and tricking ordinary people. We follow the course of the lives of three friends from a backwater village in the middle of nowhere, and what happens to them in the aftermath of their village being attacked by trollocks, only saved by a visiting Aes Sedai.

Sounds pretty cool idea? Well, for the first few books, it is, genuinely, brilliant... Sure, there's some cliches and naff bits there, but it's good. Then, in my opinion, we get more characters than we can handle, the author tries to add soap opera bits with men and women being matched up left right and centre, and characters get harder to believe.
However, many people like it... Depends on what you want from books I guess.

Phew, that took a while...

Oh you are disgustingly sarcastic Johan. You're British gone horribly wrong......

They are brilliant books. In fact I'm glad Johan dislikes them because it means every normal person will love them. Fair enuff Johan, some one doesn't die on every page, the main character doen't realise he's a psychopathic killer at the end, and there is some of that, horror of horrors, thing called humour in it!!! :eek: I can see its not to your taste......

[LadyEm]

I looooooooooooooove those books! I think I have all the books on my shelf...let me check...yes the whole series to date. :D
Very well written with lots of very unexpected twists.
Sooo goood.

[Jadis]

I don't know if anybody would be interested in books about mommies but ever since I became one I have been. There's two in particular called Babyville and there's Little Earthquakes. Very good books, if you're interested.

[Johan 72109]

Oh you are disgustingly sarcastic Johan. You're British gone horribly wrong......

They are brilliant books. In fact I'm glad Johan dislikes them because it means every normal person will love them. Fair enuff Johan, some one doesn't die on every page, the main character doen't realise he's a psychopathic killer at the end, and there is some of that, horror of horrors, thing called humour in it!!! :eek: I can see its not to your taste......

In what way sarcastic?!? I meant it, the first few books ARE brilliant...

But his point about everyone liking 'em because I don't... Hehe, probably a good argument... :o

And I do like humour, just... in books designed to be humerous, not 'serious' fantasy... :o

[Sam]

So Johan, how about throwing out the name of a book you like unreservedly? (not Narnia, HP or anything else that we almost certainly have read.)

[Johan 72109]

Erm... Hmm... Long list here... :rolleyes: For WHB's benefit, I'll put in brackets which are Johan-ish and which aren't... ;)

1984 (Johan), Animal Farm (Johan), Noughts and Crosses (slightly Johan but read all the same), Farenheit 451 (Johan), Asterix and Obelix (hehe, NOT Johan at all), Dune (Not REALLY Johan), The Forever War (ditto), Das Boot (slightly Johan), Jeeves and Wooster (see Asterix), The Children of Men (Johan), A Scanner Darkly (Johan), Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep (Johan), Day of the Triffids (Not really Johan), Smash (Not really Johan), Brother in the Land (Johan), The Imperial Infantrymans Uplifting Primer (don't ask), anything by Terry Pratchett really (Not Johan), and Fight Club (Slightly too Johan-ish even for ME :eek: ).

[Dernhelm]

I don't think I follow; if it's "(not Johan)"...then why do you like it?

[Johan 72109]

Okay, read 'not exclusively Johan, i.e the sort of thing which only Johan / people like Johan could enjoy, where all adorable puppies get eaten on page 1, and the story revolves around the hero getting taken down a peg or two by the villain (if there is a villain of course, and not just the hero going mad...) If you're not Johan / like Johan, you will still enjoy this.'

Hehe... you can see why I shortened it to 'Not Johan'... :D

[Sam]

Mmmm, good list- a nice mix of stuff I love and stuff I have not read, nothing which made me go aaarrrghhh :eek:

And, in spite of them being non-johan, your ventures into the world of humour are very tasteful.

As for 1984- (sorry I can't see the name without feeling a rant swell up in my chest) if you ever want to hear Sam's thesis on how this book is COMING TRUE, just give me the nod. Although, I'd think twice if I were you. And you probably will. Still, it's brilliant, but unbearably depressing.

[Johan 72109]

Agreed... 1984's simply one of the most terrifying things I've ever read... When I think of hell, I think of the world set up in 1984, simply because there is no conceivable way to tear it down. It truly IS the eternal defeat of mankind. :(

But, I've thought twice, and I'm intrigued... I mean, yes, I can see some of the applications to modern life within it, but there isn't as many as, say, Farenheit 451... Also a very scary book I may add...

So tell... Hehe, trust me, you're talking to one of the few people who likes to read rants... :D

[Sam]

Yay!

Well, it's been a while, and I can't remember everything, but there are two things that stand out for me.

Firstly, the fact that they don't live in countries so much as massive states (Oceania etc). This reminded me so much of the whole 'superpowers' thing that exists now. American, Europe (because the E.U. creates laws etc. for the whole of Europe and is a sort of centralised government), China. I know it's not exactly the same, but it does seem that because communication, travel, etc is so much easier now, large areas are being homogenised into similar places. I mean, the differences between countries are being lessened, people can travel all over, live all over, large areas can be surveyed and governed.

(note: I'm not totally against all this, nor am I like 'aaggh end of the world' conspiracy theorising. I'm not a total loon.)

And of course, the globabl balance of power is a major issue for various governments. At the moment America's the big man about town, but who knows whether or when that will change. So the political dancing around one another does remind me of the 'wars' and 'alliances' between the states in 1984.


Secondly, (and for me, as a literature student and complete old-fashioned lover of the English language, more poignantly) is the newspeak thing. Because I do believe (to a certain extent) that language helps give expression and shape to our own thoughts. when we give words to feelings etc. it helps us understand them and cope with them. Of course, it is also vital to communicate them. Nowadays, I think people really are trying to simplify and reduce the language- and a lot of the time they have pretty good reaons. but if we simplify language, and take out nuances, then we are forced to make our communication less subtle, and everything has to be black or white. Even the fact that teachers were given some rule that they can't put criticism on work, is in my opinion a bad thing. If we take away criticism then there ceases to be a standard, or any real motivation to push yourself beyond your perceived boundaries. it's all doubleplusgood or whatever.

anyway, I can't think of lots of examples of this off the top of my head- it's the sort of thing that comes into my mind occasionally when I read something in the papers that makes me go 'nooooo....' big brother is watching me!

Come to think of it.... the fact that almost all our personal information, plus our whereabouts, is available on computers etc. (not easily, and not to anyone, but still) does sort of worry me. I feel vaguely sad that I live in a world where it is basically impossible to be anonymous.


Rant over. Hope that wasn't too boring, Johan. Sorry everyone else!

[Johan 72109]

No, not at all :D ... I'm the same, I get a nagging feeling whenever I hear about the latest developments in GPS or satellite technology. On the other hand, it's not as if the governments we live under are communist nightmares... I think that communism as a phase is (very very slowly) beginning to disappear, replaced by commercialism and corporate industy states, which isn't as overtly oppressive. Well, as of yet. :(

On the language thing... I'd agree, the language is becoming simplified. But it's not really being simplified in a 'controlling measure' way in my opinion... It's more an attempt not to make people feel bad about themselves and not to feel isolated, at least from my (very limited, you'll know far more about it than me, so I'm probably wrong :o ) point of view. Which is driving people more to becoming semi-morons than obedient citizens, more interested in TV and media than the power of the written word.

[Sam]

Oh, I promise I don't know anything more than you. Believe me, I look to you for feedback on my thoughts. I may sound sure of myself, but it's so much hot air a lot of the time. :)

[unleavened]

END TIMES!!! END TIMES!!!
Yes, the world is drawing closer to a one world govt all the time just like it talks about in Revelation. I'm so glad I have the hope of a Chistian. I'm still on sorta the right subject right.

New book! Les Miserables. Anyone? Ok, if you do, be sure to find the abridged version otherwise you'll find yourself reading a 1200 pg book. Oh, and be sure the version you have is translated into english too. It's a good book. I believe Victor Hugo got saved before he wrote it. It's hard to believe he's the same guy who wrote Hunchback of Notre Dame.

[Neevil]

I tried to read Les Miserables once, I didn't get too far. It wasn't for me. I read Oscar Wilde's 'Picture of Dorian Grey' That was good. And then there was Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Very boring. All those perfectly constructed sentences almost made me go cross-eyed with boredom. 1984 and Animal Farm were very entertaining. The Beach by Alex Garland was insightful (I'm sure you all recall the 'The Beach' with Leonardo DiCaprio, which movie was based off of). 100 Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez was beautiful, intelligent with a wry sense of humour.

Want some soppy English fashionista soap-drama books? Little White Lies by Gemma Townley and Can You Keep a Secret by Sophia Kinsella were really cute. Ladies who love the damsel in distress stories, might like the book aptly named 'Knight in Shining Armor' by Jude Devreaux.

Anything by Sara Douglass-- Wayfarer Redemption series and Dragonstar Series, also the Troy Game series. Tapestry of Fionavar by Guy Gavriel Kay was gorgeous and I finished the entire volume in three days. Robert Jordan and Terry Goodkind for high fantasy. Dune by Frank Herbert, but only the first book... I found the rest were completely unnecessary. Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlien for the sci-fi guys-- it was a little slow and completely different from the movie.

Harry Potter by JK Rowling and the Anita Blake series the first book being Guilty Pleasures which is the name of a vamp/ were-thing strip club.(there are 12 books with another two due out in 2006) by Laurell K. Hamilton for the alternate world type of settings, although Anita Blake is NOT for the faint of heart, trust me. If you are easily offended don't read them but if you like vampires, werecreatures and other creepy-crawlies then you'll like it. Bitten by Kelley Armstrong is about a woman who turns furry when the moon is full, I like it but I have a pet peeve for present tense first person perspectives.

[unleavened]

Dorian Gray: I have to read that for school this year. I think it sounds interesting. Does he blather? I get really annoyed with blathering pagon authors. They make me mad, but at the same time I want them to see Christ, but most of them are dead. It's frustrating. I want them to stop blathering and listen to me, but...obviously that doesn't work.

[Sam]

That's a book that I thought was really good when I first read it. Then, when I had to do it again recently for an essay I found it a bit shallow. I think it probably is the Christian perspective that makes it so, cause Wilde's theories about aesthetic lifestyles and beauty are so frustrating for anyone who actually believes in the moral life. Still, it's definitley worth reading. I'd be interested to know what you think.

[Inklet]

Any of the twenty or so Discworld novels by Terry Pratchett (I'm currently reading Thud). His books are to fantasy what Douglas Adams's are to science fiction. Pratchett seems to actually like people, though. Some of his books are social satire, and some lampoon the fantasy genre itself. It's early going on Thud but I'm getting hints it may turn out to be a parody of The DaVinci Code, which could certainly use it. (UPDATE: Solid Discworld book, but not his best. I wasn't completely wrong about DaVinci-like elements.)

He co-authored a book with Neil Gaiman called Good Omens, which I could recommend, but that's really just a bridge to Gaiman so I can rave about Neverwhere. It's a surreal story set in a parallel-existence London. Lots of action, thrills and (black) humor. The best villains I've ever encountered.


P.S. Didn't Oscar Wilde convert to Catholicism in the end?

[Sam]

I don't think so. Sadly, I think Wilde ended his life unhappy and unfulfilled, having lost his creative inspiration, his family, his friends and reputation.
Phew, that's so sad. He certainly needed Christ.

I love Terry Pratchett, and I thought I'd read nearly all of them, but I haven't heard of the one you're reading, so thanks! I'm going to look out for it.

Has anyone heard of an author named Eddison? 'The Worm of Ourobos' (or something like that). I saw it in a shop the other day, and my curiousity was piqued.

[Sam]

ok, I've doubled checked. the name is 'the worm Ouroboros'.

[Inklet]

I've heard good things about Eddison, but have only read this excerpt (http://users.crocker.com/~lwm/conjuring.html) from Chapter 4 of the book, and I don't think I could get through a whole book like this. That, of course, is more of a comment about me than about Eddison. On the other hand, the whole middle part of "The Once and Future King" can be a difficult read, too, and I think it's wonderful. It depends on whether the "high" language immerses you into the story or distracts you from it, and an excerpt can't answer that question.

So, all in all, a useless post.



By the way, Sam, I was pretty sure about Wilde, and if you trust Wikipedia, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wilde#After_his_release) supports the deathbed conversion story.



All right, I admit it. The stuff about Eddison was just an excuse for that last bit. I'm a petty man! (Or maybe just a "gregarious squabbler" (http://www.narniafans.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41511&postcount=13)?) :)

[Sam]

lol. A don't mind being corrected in a good cause, and as a devotee of Wikipedia, I am now convinced.

thanks for the insight- I love to hear of people who found Christ before they died, it's so gladdening. :D

[unleavened]

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - very well written. Not a happy message. I'm surprised I liked it, but Steavenson was such a good writer.

[ChildOfAslan7]

Pay It Forward by Catherine Ryan Hyde. It is very touching and eye opening. A very good read.