Destiny?

[Danny]

Does anyone here believe in fate/destiny? :confused:

I am a strong believer, as recently I feel that every turn of event that has transpired in my life has been leading me inevitably to where I am today.

(This probably explains my fascination for Homer!) :o

The only thing that bothers me is that if destiny is true, then people that suffer in life are pre-defined to suffer. However, it would also give meaning to our lives, in that we are all working towards a common goal. This is probably why I find the theory so attractive.

[onlymystory]

I believe in free will. I will allow that fate exists but only on a small scale. Its that age old debate which comes up especially when one reads Oedipus. Was it fate or free will that caused his problems? I personally think that while fate may place a choice or opportunity in front of you, its your own free will that decides what to do with it. fate can't make you do anything.
however, I don't think this allows us to conclude in a lack of meaning in our lives. For me, the meaning in my life comes from my Savior. And since He gave me my free will, I just have to work hard to make good decisions.

Btw, welcome to the site Danny.

[CSLewisFan]

Does anyone here believe in fate/destiny? :confused:

I am a strong believer, as recently I feel that every turn of event that has transpired in my life has been leading me inevitably to where I am today.

(This probably explains my fascination for Homer!) :o

The only thing that bothers me is that if destiny is true, then people that suffer in life are pre-defined to suffer. However, it would also give meaning to our lives, in that we are all working towards a common goal. This is probably why I find the theory so attractive.

I believe I have the power to choose.

I can choose to take a sip of my Wild Cherry Pepsi or I can choose not to.

::Takes a sip::

It wasn't my "destiny" to take a sip of my Pepsi, it was my choice.

-Austin

[Spare Oom]

I believe we have free will. It is up to each of us to follow the best path we can in life.

If individuals have no power to make their own choices or decisions, then you cannot hold people responsible for their own actions. That means that you cannot justly punish murderers, rapists or thieves.

[inkspot]

Welcome, Danny. I am a believer in Christ, so I know my eternal future, is that what you mean by destiny? Here is what I think about fate/destiny/predestination ... it's kind of a word picture.

Think about a cruise ship bound from Great Britain to New York. The destiny of everybody on that ship is to arrive in New York. There's no avoiding it. But, while they are on the cruise, every passenger can choose to do different things: swim, sun tan, play games, read books, take part in activities, ignore the activities, stay in their cabin ... So while our ultimate fate (New York) has been decided, our everyday choices are well within our reach.

Now if you decided to jump ship mid-Atlantic and try to swim back to England, a wise captain would send someone in a smaller boat to rescue you and put you back on board, and in that way, he might deny your free will, but he would also save your life. Perhaps this is how you feel, as regards fate or destiny propelling you a certain way?

[Danny]

Hi, guys. Thanks for the warm welcome.

I can choose to take a sip of my Wild Cherry Pepsi or I can choose not to.

::Takes a sip::

It wasn't my "destiny" to take a sip of my Pepsi, it was my choice.

-Austin

Ah, but what if destiny determined your choice?


Now if you decided to jump ship mid-Atlantic and try to swim back to England, a wise captain would send someone in a smaller boat to rescue you and put you back on board, and in that way, he might deny your free will, but he would also save your life. Perhaps this is how you feel, as regards fate or destiny propelling you a certain way?

That's exactly what I mean. By our own choice we may decide to stray from the pre-defined path, though doing so would trigger an intervention that will inevitably lead us back on the "true course". That's my opinion anyway.

[Dernhelm]

I belive in predestination. Basically, that God created not only all three dimentions, but also the fourth, time. :p

[Jay7]

I believe in free will, nothing more nothing less. ;) I find pre-defined paths silly. It doesnt go with the bible at all.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

i am a firm believer in choice that whatever you want to do you can. As someone mentioned Oedipus, I mention Macbeth. Was he fated by the witches to kill Duncan, or did he choose? Now there was his wife....:D but I think he CHOSE to do it, he didnt have to lower the knife, and it was his choice

[kirke]

i guess i would have to know your religion.

if you are a christian or a jew- The view is that humans do have freewill. If humans did not have freewill then one of 2 things happened last time you sinned: 1) god made you sin, and god cannot sin so therefore your sin means god is not god. or 2) you didnt choose to sin, therefore when the bible said all have sinned it lied, so the bible is wrong, so god is fake. On the other hand if you do have freewill then god is still correct and still god.

if you are atheistic, bigbang, or darwin believing- The world happened by chance. There was no creator, and no predetermined rules when it came to the evelution of the universe. Nothing could have made whatever determines fate/destiny and therefore it doesnt exist. This means you have freewill.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

i am ....nothing

[CSLewisFan]

Hi, guys. Thanks for the warm welcome.
Ah, but what if destiny determined your choice?

That is what your reason is circular.

If I drop a quarter, is it the quarter’s "destiny" to hit the ground?
Or is gravity and "destiny" synonymous?

-Austin

[purplemonkeyhunter]

I believe that people have a purpose in life, they are created to do something in life, for a reason, but have free will. They can choose wether they want to fullfill their purpose in life, or live their lives the way they want to. People have free will, but they also have a destiny I suppose.

[Green Knight]

Destiny is the path, Fate is the choices that can be made, and Fortune is the success in those choices.

If Destiny exists, then is works on a quantum model. For every choice you make, the path changes. Destiny changes from moment to moment, and it is not written in stone.

[Saruman]

I think inkspot's very simple analogy has hit the nail on the head. She has her can of wild cherry pepsi with her. She can choose whether or not she is going to imbibe the can or not. It's not destiny that she went and purchased a case of pepsi, now is it? Of her own volition she went and did this. Such is an evidence of God and His creation, for He said, "Let Us create man in Our image..." (Gen. ch. 1).

The greatest example I can give is the sinking of the RMS Titanic. A first-class passenger, Miss Edith Evans, had earlier that year visited a fortune-teller, who told her to "beware of the water." When the ship struck an iceberg at 11:40pm, she was sleeping soundly in her A deck cabin. Of course, as most every passenger did that fateful night/morning, she arose, dressed warmly and went up to the boat deck to meet with her aunt and her aunt's two sisters. The next thing happens at about 12:25am: the four women are separated! Two of the sisters safely board a lifeboat and are rescued. Miss Evans and the other lady, however, with the assistance of a gentleman, reach one of the last lifeboats to be lowered. Some have told the story that there was "no more room" left, and so Edith gave up a place for the elder woman. However, there was no doubt more room left (the lifeboats were launched with almost less than half their normal capacity) and Edith made a CHOICE to stay behind, and the words of the fortune-teller no doubt prompted her decisions that night. She was one of four first class women who died that morning.

Were the words of the fortune-teller necessarily true? Absolutely not! There was no validity to them whatsoever! Yet Miss Evans, out of her own volition, took it to be her "destiny." She could easily have found a way into another lifeboat, but for whatever reason she faltered.

The reason why Eve and Adam sinned at the Garden of Eden? It's very simple. God created man to have a relationship with Him: in so doing, He created us with the ability to choose our own path. God certainly wouldn't want any robots going around, programmed to tell Him "we love You! we love You!" whenever He wanted us to tell Him that. Instead, He gave us choice. And with choice came the alternative. Guess what our grandparents did? Yep...they choose the alternative, under the deception of Satan "oh, you'll be just like God if you eat of the fruit of that tree!" Bingo! We see the nasty results of this decision, especially in our times.

[Danny]

But wasn't it Christ's "destiny" to die for the sins of Man? I mean, He was actually sent to earth to die, wasn't He? Could He have chosen a different path in life?

[Saruman]

Could He have chosen a different path in life?

Absolutely! Christ prayed to the Father, desirous that if there could be any other way, let it be so. But He said, "Nevertheless, not My will, but Your will be done." Christ, the living God, both fully God and fully Man (the Father in the form of a Man), willingly gave His life to save us from our sins, so that we might be restored to have that relationship with God the Father. For there is need of One who is blameless, without spot and sin, to perish for those of us who are sinners. Out of His supreme love, God came down to this earth and did thus. A choice now lies before every man living, and only one question will be asked of us when we meet God face-to-face: What did you do with My Son? Do you willingly receive His love and forgiveness, or did you choose to plan out your own destiny, relying on yourself?

Destined for this moment? Absolutely! He fulfilled every prophecy concerning His first coming. But did it remain a choice for Him? You bet it did. I have a little plaque at home that I dearly love, and it's a person asking God, "How much do you love me?" His response: "This much," and He stretched out His arms and died.

[CSLewisFan]

Absolutely! Christ prayed to the Father, desirous that if there could be any other way, let it be so. But He said, "Nevertheless, not My will, but Your will be done." Christ, the living God, both fully God and fully Man (the Father in the form of a Man), willingly gave His life to save us from our sins, so that we might be restored to have that relationship with God the Father. For there is need of One who is blameless, without spot and sin, to perish for those of us who are sinners. Out of His supreme love, God came down to this earth and did thus. A choice now lies before every man living, and only one question will be asked of us when we meet God face-to-face: What did you do with My Son? Do you willingly receive His love and forgiveness, or did you choose to plan out your own destiny, relying on yourself?

Destined for this moment? Absolutely! He fulfilled every prophecy concerning His first coming. But did it remain a choice for Him? You bet it did. I have a little plaque at home that I dearly love, and it's a person asking God, "How much do you love me?" His response: "This much," and He stretched out His arms and died.

No, I think you hit the nail on the head ;)

-Austin

[unleavened]

I believe in both "destiny" and free will. Though I would call destiny God's predestination. It sounds impossible, but I'm also pretty sure that our human brains are too small to understand these sorts of thing. Yes, God predestined us before the foundations of the earth, but God also transends time. So He knew our choices and chose us to choose Him, and the same thing on a smaller scale. We have to make choices, but God knew and planned them ahead of time. I know "Then how is it a choice?" Well, get over it. We can't understand it. That's my take anyway.

[Saruman]

Good thoughts on the subject, unleavened, though I am inclined to believe a little differently in the terms of "destiny" in this matter.

While we know that God knows the end from the beginning (as you basically have pointed out), there remains another factor: we don't know who will be in heaven and who will not. I think what the Lord makes clear through His Word is the fact that He already knows those who are going to choose Him and those who are going to reject Him. Yes, He has chosen us out of this world even before its foundation, but God is not willing "that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (II Pet. 3:9).

So I wouldn't like to say "get over it," as it just might give people the impression that God has destined them for hell. This is not His intent; today is the day of salvation.

[EveningStar]

While I don't believe in predestination, I do believe in predilection.

Think for a moment about Ebeneezer Scrooge in front of his tombstone, turning to grasp the cloak of the Ghost of Christmas Present.

"I realize that certain deeds foreshadow certain ends, but if those deeds be departed from, surely the ends will change? Tell me spirit that I may yet sponge away the writing on this stone!"

In my modified form of belief in destiny, I think there are certain events that are meant to happen. Such as, for instance, the birth of Christ. Those were not up to the tides of human endeavor to sway.

That's not predestination, it's God keeping his promises. When he promises something will happen, he makes sure it does. Not because you can't sneeze or scratch your backside without it being prophesied, but because certain things are too important to leave to chance.

[inkspot]

The Bible says it is in God that we live, and move, and have our being. We ourselves can do nothing that He does not give us the breath and impetus to do ... when we come to Christ, it is because He has called us. If we die in a state of rejecting Christ, is it because He did not call us?

[unleavened]

So I wouldn't like to say "get over it," as it just might give people the impression that God has destined them for hell. This is not His intent; today is the day of salvation.
Oh wow! That's not what I ment AT ALL! I'm sorry if I sounded that way. What I ment was that it's ok that we can't understand it. Sorry! I definately agree w/ you. Again I apologize for how that sounded.

To inkspot: I believe God calls everyone in the sense that the Holy Spirit shows them the truth, but not everyone accepts it. Christians are those who miraculously open their ears to the call accept it. Does that make sense? I'm not sure how you are defining 'call' here, so sorry if I got it wrong.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

i dont think this is a good place to argue religion, we have a christian majority on this site, and we dont want hurt feelings...just an idea :o

[onlymystory]

i dont think this is a good place to argue religion, we have a christian majority on this site, and we dont want hurt feelings...just an idea :o

dear, this is actually the section to discuss religion. and as Christians we should welcome questions from nonbelievers or those believers who are just confused. and CS Lewis was rather a big fan of discussing theology.

[Gryphon]

i dont think this is a good place to argue religion, we have a christian majority on this site, and we dont want hurt feelings...just an idea :o
you just dont want to be offended or offend other people. if you dont want to come back to this part of the forum then fine, dont do it. THis is the part of the fforum where we discuss diffrent aspects of the Christian religion, after all dont we have to tolerate other religions? Shouldnt they also tolerate ours?

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

i didnt mean it that way at all,...and this isnt just the "christian corner"

[onlymystory]

i didnt mean it that way at all,...and this isnt just the "christian corner"

its the "Christianity and Narnia" section. How much more Christian focused can it get?

[Gryphon]

HAHA, yeah seriously, if onlymystory hadnt said it i would have...

[inkspot]

This is the "Christianity and Narnia" section, but everyone is welcome, and even if you don't believe in Christ, you are welcome to post, and everyone will be respectful -- it's just that they may try to tell you why they do believe in Christ.

I forget if Danny, in opening the Thread on Destiny, said whether he was a believer or not, but as the Thread is in the Christianity and Narnia section, he probably knew that a lot of believers would post ...

Could there be destiny if there were no God, I wonder?