Sacrifice seem weird to you?

[kelsey18]

I think the whole symbolic issue of sacrifice shows how much religion plays a role in the movie and the book for that matter! I mean...it was very weird the whole religious....thing...i dont know how else to describe it..somebody find some words...

[EveningStar]

Love is not yours until you give it away.

Until you become vulnerable in love you can never grow strong in it.

Greater love hath no man than this: that he lays down his life for his friend.

[Gryphon]

The sacrifice was crutial. "FOr the wages of sin is death." someone had to pay the wages...

[kelsey18]

Yes, I agree, it was crucial, but definitely it revolved around redemption..which is a christian idea...

[onlymystory]

newsflash hun, CS Lewis was a Christian. He's most famous for his radio talks on it and his book "Mere Christianity"

[Aslan's Son]

Yesh, C. S. Lewis itended the sacrifice of Aslan at the Stone Table for Edmund to symbolise Christ's crucifixion and the sacrifice he made for all humanity (not just one person) so they wouldn't die as the price of their sin. So no, it's not weird at all-it's what Lewis wanted people to see. :)

[inkspot]

Kelsey18, welcome, I don't remember seeing you post before. I think we are maybe not understanding what you are meaning by the sacrifice being "weird." Did you find it weird in the book, because you are not a religious person? Or did you find it weird in the movie, because it was somehow different than you remembered it in the book? Or did you find it weird in the movie because you did not expect them to leave so much of the Christian symbolism in the movie? Perhaps you could elaborate?

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

Thanks for the welcome!! :) I appreciate it! This is kelsey18.....lol...my other account. Anyways, I meant that it was just weird a little bit just gruesome...also...i go to a really religiously diverse school where there are hindus...jews..christian..LOTS of religions! I mean a bunch! but anyways, i just don't like open displays in religions...especially in such a reknowned movie/book...i am not one religion or another..i just think that sometimes it provokes weird feelings...

[inkspot]

Yes, open displays of religion will invoke diverse emotions! What good would religion be if it didn't resonate with its adherents? Why is it you dislike this concept -- or why do you feel religion ought to be hushed up? (In this case, the word would have been "censored" had you removed the pivotal sacrifice scene from the movie, because it is clearly the centerpiece of the book ...

[candleman]

The sacrifice was crutial. "FOr the wages of sin is death." someone had to pay the wages...


AMEN !

SOMEONE THAT UNDERSTANDS ! !

listen to www.NarniaStory.Com for an EXCELENT explanation of the movie and how the sacrafice relates to Salvation and Christianity.. 16 minute audio.. its incredible

to all Christians.. listen to
www.HellsBestKeptSecret.com (its nothing to do with Hell..)
I got saved through it.. so did my wife

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

I know exactly how it relates to the movie, and I agree, it is important! But my Hindu and Muslim friends were a bit offended by it, other religions have different view than you, you have to acknowledge them as well and not just expect them to acknowledge you! What makes your religion the main one?

[she-elfwarrior19]

C.s Lewis planned Aslans Sacrcrifice to remind us about Jesus's sacrifice for us.

[~JadisTheWhiteWitch~]

yes thats what its showing us

[candleman]

I know exactly how it relates to the movie, and I agree, it is important! But my Hindu and Muslim friends were a bit offended by it, other religions have different view than you, you have to acknowledge them as well and not just expect them to acknowledge you! What makes your religion the main one?


We all have a conscience.. wether you like it or not you knoe right from wrong.
God wont send you to hell because you dont accept Jesus, He will send you to hell because you have openly rebelled against Him, and you have willfully chosen to go your own way.
look at Gods standard, and examine yourself.

You shall have No other gods before me
You Shall not bow down to any idols
You shall not take the Name of the Lord in vain "God will not hold him guiltless who take his name in vain"
You shall keep the sabbath Holy
Honour your father and mother
Yous shall not Kill
you shall not commit Adultery "whoever LOOKS upon a woman to lust, has committed adultery already with her in his heart" (Matt5)
you shall not steal "No thief can enter heaven (1 Cor 6)
you shall not lie "ALL liars will have their part in the lake of fire" (Rev 21)
you shall not covet

Examine yourself by his law... if you have told one lie,you are a liar. stolen one thing you are a thief..
No impure thing can enter heaven. and God will give you the death penalty
"The soul that sins, It shall die"

BUT

Jesus Christ took the punnishment that was meant to fall on you.. and ONLY if you Repent (Turn away form your sin) and trust in Him alone.. will you be given the pardon form the penalty.. because Jesus took the suffering in your place.

No other religeon has EVER said that their god has power to forgive.
Alla was a great man.. but thats all he was
Budda was a great philospher.. but he's still dead.

ONLY Jesus is alive.. and THATS why Jesus is the only way.. He rose from the dead.. no other religeon can even come close to that.

[Gryphon]

I know exactly how it relates to the movie, and I agree, it is important! But my Hindu and Muslim friends were a bit offended by it, other religions have different view than you, you have to acknowledge them as well and not just expect them to acknowledge you! What makes your religion the main one?
Everyone has a diffrent world view. You cant go through life and not offend anyone. If you went out and made a Hindu movie or a Muslim movie im sure that nobody would get offended, so why is Christianity so offensive? Because as Christians we weren't taught tolerance, we were taught love and truth. Why else can you be a witch AND a buddist? Because other religions claim that they are tolerant. What makes our religion the "main one"? Try this on for size, we are the ONLY religion to be saved by grace and not works. We are also the ONLY religion who's messiah came back IN HUMAN FORM AND FLESH. And He is the only messiah to turn death backwards ALL FOR YOU AND ME! And Christianity isnt supposed to be a religion either, Jesus didnt die for religion, he died for a RELATIONSHIP with a Bride His father created for Him. What a wonderful loving maker that He would come and die for His own creation!!

By the way candleman, thats an amazing testimony about you and your wife, welcome to the Christ family!!! I cant wait to meet you in Heaven!!!

[Aeradaan]

I know exactly how it relates to the movie, and I agree, it is important! But my Hindu and Muslim friends were a bit offended by it, other religions have different view than you, you have to acknowledge them as well and not just expect them to acknowledge you! What makes your religion the main one?

These books became renowned BECAUSE of their Christian undercurrents. These books would not BE the same books or have the same story WITHOUT those Christian undercurrents.

As for as your Muslim and Hindu friends being offended--well that's too bad. Someone's always going to be offended at something, and as a Christian, I am not going to hide my Christianity so as not to offend a Muslim. I don't see any Muslims hiding their belief so as not to offend me. As a Christian, I will live my life FOR God, and not for the POLITICALLY CORRECT.

You'll always offend someone, no matter what. The best way to live is by what you believe, and not by what everyone else believes. I believe in God, and I believe in Christ and what he did for me. Christ DIED a tormenting death to save ME. How DARE I pretend that didn't happen and how DARE I act as if he doesn't exist so as not to "offend" people who DON'T believe in him? HOW DARE I DO THAT?

"I don't know the key to success, but I know the key to failure is to try and please everyone."

Oh and, where I come from (A small country town in Mississippi) it's still "Merry Christmas" "Christmas Tree" "Silent Night" and "Christmas Holiday Break"...not "HAPPY WINTER SOLSTICE DAY!".

I refuse to bow down to political correctness, and forsaking the glory of my savior in the process.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

But the person before the person above me seems to think that the world revolves around HIS religion! Well, try this one for size, IT DOESNT! I mean, come on people, be accepting to other peoples thoughts and religions! OK? I mean, yes, ok, everyone is going to get offended some time in their life, but ACCEPT OTHER PEOPLE! DONT BE DISCRIMINATING! OK? I mean, no your religion is not the most important, to you, yes, it is, and I accept that, but to me or to my best friend, maybe it isn't.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

try looking at Judaism...person above the person above me

[Srob]

[QUOTE=Gryphon]Everyone has a diffrent world view. You cant go through life and not offend anyone. If you went out and made a Hindu movie or a Muslim movie im sure that nobody would get offended, so why is Christianity so offensive? QUOTE]

GREAT POINT!!!!!!!!! I was just gonna say the exact same thing. So why is Christianity SO SO SO offensive? Why are we fought out of government because we supposedly "leave" others out and accused of being "intolerant"?
Why do even "religious" people push for tolerance? Like it has been said, Jesus didn't die to make a religion, he died to have a relationship. That is what it is 100% about. RELATIONSHIP!!! So why are we offensive? 'Cause it is powerful, 'cause the love we have for Jesus causes us to change, and cause it is TRUE.

It is fine if a Channukah(sp.??) Candle is on a courthouse's or a picture of Buddha is in a Chinese restaurant. But HECK NO if there is a picture of Jesus in a restaurant/business or a nativity on a courthouse's lawn. The world isn't pushing for tolerance at all. If that was the case, they wouldn't be persecuting Christians. They are pushing for a total annihilation of a Christian society, plain and simple. Unfortunately, it is working and as more and more "religious" people push for tolerance, a one world religion will start to shape up. Hmm.... sounds like today society huh?

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

Funny that you notice that the religion that HAPPENS to be on bills (money) and in the song kids sing in schools.....is CHRISTIANITY!

[Gryphon]

Channukah(sp.??) Candle
you mean a Menorah?

[Gryphon]

But the person before the person above me seems to think that the world revolves around HIS religion! Well, try this one for size, IT DOESNT! I mean, come on people, be accepting to other peoples thoughts and religions! OK? I mean, yes, ok, everyone is going to get offended some time in their life, but ACCEPT OTHER PEOPLE! DONT BE DISCRIMINATING! OK? I mean, no your religion is not the most important, to you, yes, it is, and I accept that, but to me or to my best friend, maybe it isn't.
you just dont get it do you? I accept the people but i dont accept the religion. Love the people and hate the sin, im sorry you feel as though i hate people who dont know the Lord, what i AM saying is that i would everything within my power to tell those people that dont know Christ how much He and I both love each other and how they can know His love too. Because Christians can get so desperate and so on fire for God people get afraid because sometimes the fact is that they dont understand it. They dont understand truth. Some dont want to understand it. Some dont want to obey truth. The world doesnt revolve around my "religion" but without my God the world wouldn't revolve at all. You say that we get plenty of attention, but do you also know that we CANT sing those songs in school anymore, and that people have been trying to take it OUT of money? It's true. If nobody else will stand up for the God i love, then i will. i refuse to let my friends stumble in the dark.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

U JUST SAID THAT YOU DONT ACCEPT THEIR RELIGIONS! that is unfair and very .....i dont know...weird?

[Gryphon]

U JUST SAID THAT YOU DONT ACCEPT THEIR RELIGIONS! that is unfair and very .....i dont know...weird?
I dont have to accept thier religion, but i DO accept and love people. Cant you understand that? Just because i hate their gods doesnt mean i dont love them. I dont want to bash them over the head with a bible, i want to love on them and show them the love of my savior. Why dont you understand that? Yes, it does make me VERY weird but then again lots of people thought Jesus was strange, it only makes sense that i am too. And you know what? JESUS CHRIST AND I BOTH LOVE YOU TOO! Why? Because God lives within me and He loves you too. Thats what i want to tell people. God STILL loves you, it doesnt matter what you've done. Does He hate your gods? YES! Does he love you? YES! Does he want to have a relationship with you? YES! Thats my whole point. You say that it is unfair for me to not accept other gods, but you hate theivery dont you? You hate lying dont you? You hate adultery dont you? In the same likeness i hate idolitry. Do i hate a theif? no. Do i hate liars? no. Do i hate idoleters? no. Is it REALLY unfair for me to hate other religions? I dont think so. I love the people, please try to understand that.

[Aeradaan]

Firstly, Gryphon, AMEN!

U JUST SAID THAT YOU DONT ACCEPT THEIR RELIGIONS! that is unfair and very .....i dont know...weird?

Yes, everything is weird to you, isn't it? Far be it for a Christian to not accept a religion that is BLASPHEMOUS against our God who created us, and our saviour who died for us. Our society has come to a point to where soon we're going to have to be tolerant of paedophillia because it's how the pedophiles are "born" and it's their "choice" and their "way of life."

You're telling me I have to accept a religion that is blasphemous against my God, the God of everything and everyone, and no other? NO CHRISTIAN...no real CHRISTIAN will accept that.

You said I think the world revolves around my religion.

There's so much wrong with this statement.

First off: Oh no, this world doesn't. This world that he created has been ruined by evil men intent on destroying all goodness with their wicked ways, their false religions, and their sins.

Secondly: This isn't about "RELIGION" to me...this is about GOD...MY WORLD revolves around God...or it should. I have failures in my life where I don't do as I should, but everyone does.

[inkspot]

Hey y'all, let's stop all the YELLING. Surely we can have this discussion with our caps lowered.

Kelsey, I understand what you are saying: Christians assume our religion is true and act accordingly, but that automatically sets up the prejudice in us that anyone of another faith is wrong about their God. At the same time, those people think they are right about God because they have been raised in that faith ... so why do we expect them to abide by our rules or enjoy our movies or whatever?

Short answer: we can't. I can so no reason why someone who does not believe in a personal God -- in this case in Christ -- would enjoy the Chronicles of Narnia, because the Christian themes are so intricate to my enjoyment of them. I don't expect anyone else to love them for that reason, but at the same time, I don't expect anyone else to demand that I gut them of the very thing that makes them personal to me, just because someone else doesn't believe in Jesus.

Does that make sense? That the stories have Christian themes in itself is not offensive; no one is forced to see the movie and dwell on the Christian themes.

Let's take a look at the movie Brokeback Mountain. To my moral standards, the idea of an illicit love affair between two men that causes one of them to break up his family is offensive. Is it my best course to:
A. demand that they remove the gay love story from the movie, or
B. not go see the movie?

The answer, of course, is B. If I am misled by advertising and think it's a cowboy movie, then go see it and find it is a gay love story, am I best served to:
A. walk out,
B. see the entire movie and warn other people that I know have my same beliefs not to see it, or
C. demand they remove the gay love story?

See what I am saying? Offensive things find their way into movies, and people just shouldn't go see them, or if they accidentally see them and get offended, they can just warn others not to go cuz it's offensive. But we shouldn't single out Christian themes and declare them the most offensive and demand they be excised, that's just silly.

[Gryphon]

ok, im not trying to offend anyone, but Jesus wasnt politically correct and neither am i, im sorry. Also, if your right and your rude, your wrong. Im not trying to be rude im just trying to say that i dont accept other religions, however i DO love the people.

[inkspot]

I know, Gryphon, I agree!
We can't accept other people's religions as Truth, or we would be untrue to our own Truth. But we can accept other people, whatever their religion.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

Thank you! I just think that other people accept your religion and sing a song about your religion in school, so you should try and at least accept (you don't have to believe) other people's religions. They accept yours in their own way and you can try. I agree, they shouldn't go see the movie, but I was just saying that a lot seems to revolve around Christianity these days...

[Gryphon]

ok, what Inkspot JUST said is what ive been trying to tell you for the last 24 hours. i refuse to acept other people's religions but i accept them no matter what the religion. I love them but hate the lies that i believe satan tells them.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

I am officialy done with this conversation..we disagree now I am agreeing to disagree got it?

[Gryphon]

im sorry you feel that way. Be blessed! :D

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

ok....watever...thanks...the end folks!

[inkspot]

Kelsey, you don't have to leave ... The thing with these threads is, they can go on and on as new people read them, and everyone can express their opinion ... I don't want you to go away mad from your own thread.

peace!

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

How do you close a thread?

[inkspot]

LOL -- only a mod can close it. Why do you want to close it?

[Gryphon]

yeah, if you dont want to debate it any further then you dont have to and we cant make you. not like we'd want to.. anyway, theres really no point in locking it, we can just change the subject, but would that be spamming?

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

i want to close it because it was obviously a stupid idea and a lot of people on this site are christian and i dont like offending people :o

[Gryphon]

everyone has diffrent world views and if they are going to come to this part of the forum then they need to be prepared to be offended anyway.

[inkspot]

No, Kelsey18, you are not offending anyone! You have a right to your opinion, as do the other posters -- as as Gryphon says, everyone knows not everyone is going to agree with them. Let's leave the Thread open, you never know, someone might come along who agrees with you. I don't think anyone was offended by your Thread, and it certainly is not a stupid topic, it is a very valid one.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

i am offended by Gryphon!

[candleman]

there are NO religious activities in public schools.. ( i speak for NZ)

say the Name of Jesus and people cringe.. because
"it is the only name under heaven given amoung men, whereby we must be saved"

He is "the Way the Truth and the Life," no one comes to the Father but by Him

remember..
"You cannot serve two masters,you will either love the one and hate the other..."

[inkspot]

i am offended by Gryphon!
Oh, I see. It wasn't that you were afraid you were offending people, it was because you felt offended. Sorry about that. I am sure Gryphon did not intend to offend you. I think she meant the same thing I said: that she accepts people of all religions, or no religions, but she does not accept that any religion is True except Christianity. I am sure she did not personally mean to offend you, Devil's Advocate. Please accept that apology, and we'll leave the Thread open in case anyone has further thoughts.

[Gryphon]

i am offended by Gryphon!
well, that is a shame isnt it? and i agree with Inky totally. Apparenlty i wasnt able to say it in a way that made sense to you that Inky was capable of.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

do you have to get rude about EVERYTHING?!?!

[Gryphon]

no, how was my last post rude??

[EveningStar]

Religion and culture are not the same. Neither are religion and philosophy.

Religion, if you're going to have one, is your relationship with God or The Gods. Like any relationship, your level of committment and your personal investment determine how much you get out of it.

Religion transcends cultural differences, just as cultures transcend religious differences. The same is true for philosophy and religion. One can be a platonic Christian or a platonic Jew...or even, as was Plato himself, a platonic Olympian. Christians can be Arminian,Calvinist, or Neo-Platonic.

But while one cannot assert cultural superiority without arrogance or philosophical superiority without boorishness, there is a duty everyone has to worship God the best way they see fit, and that involves making a real commitment. It is good to accept and love people of other religions, but to the Christian there are those who believe and those who don't, not a panoply of equal but different belief systems. The same is true for the Jew, the Muslim and the Zoroastrian. Whatever you choose to be, be it as well as you can. If the depth of your commitment doesn't matter to you, neither should your choice of religion because it's not worthwhile without commitment.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

ok inkspot or chakal please close this thread!!!!!!!!!!! :o

[Parthian King]

Chakal, I find myself fully agreeing and profoundly disagreeing at the same time. Such is the quandary that the postmodern age throws us in! Your statements are based upon a number of assumptions (every statement is), and it is the nature and content of those assumptions that rub me the wrong way. To name the principal one, there seems to be an assumption in your words that there is intrinsic value in committed religious practice as such, that we should be committed to whatever religious paradigm we adhere to firmly in order to "get the most out of it."

It seems to me, however, that the very theme of this thread that Kelsey18 so generously opened for us is at loggerheads with that concept. Christianity in the final analysis is not religion (though it may be expressed religiously), but a relationship with God through a unique sacrifice that He initiated. Religion is the human practice of reaching toward God (or as you say, the Gods); Christ on the Cross is something entirely different--it is God splitting the heavens. Perhaps it is for this reason that the New Testament says almost nothing about ceremony, cultic practice, and church governance. Each of these things finds a unique expression in the varying cultures in which the Church finds itself (which are a whole bunch), hence making Christianity supra-cultural (not to be confused with being acultural), while other world religions are invariably tied to certain cultural norms (whether through language, cult, or art forms). The Cross also submarines the idea that we should relate to God with "getting something out of it" as a starting point, or even a significant ingredient. To behold the Cross is to see at the same time that any effort in that direction is both futile and vain: Futile because anything other than the Cross is powerless, and vain because the Cross provides all we can ever need even as it lays bare all our selfishness. For the Christian, the issue is not intensity of committment (to whatever religion), but abandonment to Truth, who became flesh and walked among us. We serve God because He is who He is, and although He richly rewards us for it (indeed, He is the reward), we'd do it whether we got any reward or not. It is hard to believe that Paul, when citing his litanies of trials, thought much about serving Christ in terms of "getting something out of it," at least in the modern religious sense of that phrase.

Of course, you are likely doing your best to be diplomatic and curteously pluralistic in the context of this forum, playing the advocate, and if this is the case call me the boor! I still have not figured out in this age of hyper-tolerance how we are to handle ourselves when two worldviews lay claim to the same paradigm or person (e.g., Jesus) in contradictory ways.

[EveningStar]

Parthian King, there are three other people that made the same mistake you did. Thinking that I said it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you're sincere.

I said something similar. That it doesn't matter what you believe if you're NOT sincere. As in all religions are equally useless to the insincere.

Sift through my post to the statement where I said "to the Christian there are two groups...those who believe and those who don't."

Perhaps I should redo my sig graphic to say "I'm NOT Universalist, folks!" :D

[Parthian King]

Chakal, you write so smoothly that I missed the whole thing. But it did give me the opportunity to write some really cool stuff about the Cross that I was just itching to get into the thread :).

[EveningStar]

When I hold a discussion with people about religion, I always use a polite form of address for each belief I discuss, whether it is my belief or not.

THE STORY OF PHILEMON AND BAUCIS: JUST THE FACTS

"Once a long time ago, though it really never happened because this is Greek MYTH and not in the Bible, there supposedly--according to the heathens--were two people, a woman named Philemon and a man named Baucis. They probably didn't exist, but that's what they say. And, though we know it COULDN'T have happened, they SAY that two of their false gods Jupiter and Mercury went through their village disguised as mortals..."

That's why it's traditional in a scholarly context to discuss beliefs as a "sympathetic third person".

[inkspot]

Perhaps I should redo my sig graphic to say "I'm NOT Universalist, folks!"
Please do! I am the one who made that mistake before about something you said ...

Devil's Advocate, I don't want to close your thread just because you feel Gryphie is being rude to you -- she isn't, really, and if she were, rudeness isn't really a reason to close the thing as long as she is not outright calling you names or something -- or using coarse language. And as you see, there are other erudite folks here who are also enjoying the topic of your Thread. Let's leave it open for now ... maybe you and Gryphon wil get to be friends, who knows?

[Gryphon]

maybe you and Gryphon wil get to be friends, who knows?

yeah, that would be nice if we could leave on good terms...