What to make of this...

[Son of Aslan]

http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/Narnia_Chronicles.pdf

I do not know what to make of this. I can not find in the Chronicles, either quotation. I think the comparison between the dancing being a witch's sabat to be a little subjective. But if the part where they chant "Euan, Euan, EU-oi oi oi" is really there, then how can that come from a Christian writer. Someone shed some light on this.

Would Lewis have admonished the calling upon, and invokation of the God of drunkeness, Bacchus?

[EveningStar]

The wine the ancients had with their meals was not allowed to ferment for years to become a strong alcoholic beverage.

Wine was particularly important in the days before hygenic practice. It was a food that retarded the growth of harmful pathogens.

What was referred to in Chronicles of Narnia was more like fresh grape juice.

As for dancing...I was aware while growing up that some folks were uptight about dancing. Some Baptists simply would not, under any circumstances, dance. Some of us are not quite so uptight about an enjoyable physical activity in time to music.

[onlymystory]

also, since first of all is more of a strong juice than wine as we know it its different. Lewis is also referencing old festivals reminiscent of ancient Greeks and Romans. Festivals honoring Bacchus were nothing more than a weekend of fun. It was a chance to gather with others and enjoy themselves without being concerned with rituals or anything. I believe Lewis was pointing out the sheer difference between the calormen rule of laws and policies and rules and the narnian way of enjoying life as each day comes along. He is not referencing at all the newer version of this idea. The witches' sabat is a new take on older festivals as well. Lewis wasn't referring to that.

[Hope96]

I don't know where they got their information from to write this article on. I don't recall anywhere in the Chronicles where they chant, ""Euan, Euan, EU-oi oi oi"

I could be wrong, since it has been about year since I've read all of the Chronicles in full. But I have read them all before, in the past, and I don't recall this. Can someone else pin point where this quote is if it is in fact in one of the books?

[onlymystory]

its in Prince Caspian, when Lucy and Susan go with Aslan while Peter and Edmund find Caspian. its when their with Silenius, Bachhus, and his wild girls.

[Hope96]

its in Prince Caspian, when Lucy and Susan go with Aslan while Peter and Edmund find Caspian. its when their with Silenius, Bachhus, and his wild girls.
And they actually use the chant "Euan, Euan, EU-oi oi oi"?

[EveningStar]

The whole concept of "demigods" is upsetting to some folks because they believe it is an affront to monotheism. Not really.

The whole Judeo-Christian-Muslim understanding of angels as Heavenly beings with superhuman powers fits the Hindu concept of gods to a "T". The Hindus would not hesitate to consider people like the Archangel Michael as gods. To some degree it is a question of semantics.

Demigods are creations to which God gives certain powers to do His will in certain realms. Sometimes they are called "watchers." Think about the ones from our popular mythology such as Jack Frost, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus. How about Father Time, Mother Earth, the Tooth Fairy or the Angel of Death? These are great mythical examples.

But there are also examples that are not universally considered mythical. Otherwise why bother sorting out Catholic and Orthodox patron saints by the professions that should seek their intercession? Why shouldn't an animal shelter clerk wear a St. Cristopher medal or a bus driver a St. Francis medal?

Demigods, if they exist, are entrusted with jobs not because the work wouldn't get done without them, but because they as people wouldn't get done without the work. It is through learning cheerful service and handling responsibility that we become more like God. As we grow, so will our responsibilities, but also so will our joys.

[Son of Aslan]

Well, I wrote my reply on my blog... LINK (http://fellowship-hall.com/weblog_entry.php?e=205)

[onlymystory]

two things. first on the demigod idea that Chakal referenced. It is also important to note that most educated greeks and romans did not believe in many gods. They believed in one god. However they recognized that the common people were not educated and so had difficulty grasping the concept of an omniscient god. By providing lower gods, it was easier for the common person to deal with their problems.

second, Bacchus is actually another name for Dionysius. He represents the intoxicating power of wine as well as its social and beneficent imfluences. He is often seen as the promoter of civilization, a lawgiver, and lover of peace. Bacchus is also refered to as the patron deity of agriculture and the theater. His festivals were looked down upon in ancient times because they were secretive and thought to be plots against the government. The more modern day view of orgiastic festivities were pagan rituals not brought about until much later. Around 300 AD is considered the earliest reference to the orgiastic festivals. Bacchus is also compared to Jesus as he is said to have been born from a mortal woman but fathered by a god, to have returned from the dead and to have transformed water into wine. (I don't think that Lewis was implying he was equal to God but it could have been a reference to yet another side of God's character-the fun loving side-) Bacchus is also a deity that must be believed in by an individual. The general public did not accept him as a god in the same manner as Apollos and Zeus. Bacchus has four main characteristics; the respectable patron of the theatre and the arts, as the effimate yet fierce and phallic mystery-god of the bloodthirsty Maenads, as the mystic deity in the temples of Demeter, and finally as the divine savior who died for mankind and whose body and blood were symbolically eaten and drunk in the eucharist of the Orphic-Pythagorean celibates.

I would imagine that Lewis was referencing a god who was worshipped as a fun-loving god. Emphasizing the joy felt by those liberated by Aslan, after Miraz's stiff rule.

Hope that helps.

[Son of Aslan]

Hope that helps.

Indeed, it brings clarity to my blog entry, with your permission, I have incorporated part of your post into it.

[onlymystory]

absolutely. i just read your post. good summary. the only detail you might want to switch is that Caspian's nurse was not actually referring to Bacchus's own mother. It was simply used by him as a term of endearment. Much as a beloved mentor might refer to someone as their son.

[Son of Aslan]

the only detail you might want to switch is that Caspian's nurse was not actually referring to Bacchus's own mother. It was simply used by him as a term of endearment. Much as a beloved mentor might refer to someone as their son.

Done... and thanks!

[Spare Oom]

What does the chant "Euan, Euan, EU-oi oi oi" mean, anyway? I only know of Euan as a boy's name. :confused:

The idea of Aslan cavorting with Bacchus, Silenus and the Maenads is only blasphemous if you consider that Aslan is Jesus. If you view the Christian elements as only one aspect of the Chronicles, and acknowledge that there are other elements including paganism, animism and Plato, then there is no problem. The story is not a Christian allegory, as Lewis pointed out, though there are some Christian parallels.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

The "Euan" cry was the cry to summon Bacchus, used during the appropriately named baccanalia and during the triumph to celebrate some great victory. I believe Parthian King might be more qualified to comment on this, if he has the time to do so. Chakal's summary was a good one, for Lewis held the view that there were numerous forms of powers under God but above Man which were entrusted with various responsiblities (this comes out more in his Interplanetary Trilogy). They weren't always safe to be around, though - note Susan's comment to Lucy about how she wouldn't feel safe around Bacchus without Aslan present.