White Jesus?

[thelawtman]

Ok this is really annoying me. As u well know i am astrong athesit but why the heck do people portray all the bibical figures as white? They were NOT white they were middle eastern. Also why do christians not want to accept that jesues was a jew. Well frankley i dont want to hear ur replies but to all u people Jesues was NOT WHITE!!!!!!!

[Parthian King]

thelawtman, I'm not sure with whom you are speaking. I don't know of a single Christian who denies that Jesus was a Jew. We're proud He was a Jew. Not only was He a Jew, but also all His disciples were Jews, and most of the early Church were Jews. It was a big deal to let Gentiles (any non-Jew) into the Church. Similarly, I haven't spoken with anyone who seriously contends that Jesus or any other Middle Easterner (meaning pretty much anyone in the early Church outside of perhaps Europe) was white. I know some people have painted pictures that way in the past (i.e., Jesus with blonde hair and blue eyes, etc.), but I know of hardly any Christian who takes those pictures seriously. The early believers were dark or olive skinned, of course.

As for movies, well, actors are picked for their ability to act, their looks, and their fame, so white people get cast in those roles. But I don't think too many people base their beliefs about the early Church on Hollywood's version of things.

[Gibby]

Boy, there sure are alot of hasty generalizations and hostility in this forum today, whew!

[EveningStar]

Some go the opposite direction. There is a very devout black family in my neighborhood that sets up a Creche in the front yard every year with a black Baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and Wise Men. And I see nothing wrong with this.

Those of us who believe man is made in God's image think that every face born, dead, or yet to be is only a subset of the greater whole. God is white, black, yellow and red; male and female; Jew and Gentile; and many faces and voices no man has ever seen, or at least associated with God.

[Gibby]

Hollywood's version of Jesus actually makes me chuckle. A couple of months ago, some co-workers and I went to a comedy club in Denver. The female comic that was on the stage was joking around saying she thought Jesus from The Passion was "hot".

[Saruman]

Some go the opposite direction. There is a very devout black family in my neighborhood that sets up a Creche in the front yard every year with a black Baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and Wise Men. And I see nothing wrong with this.

I do. It's a message of racism, because this family assumes that Jesus, Mary, Joseph, etc., were all black, when, in truth, they were much of an olive complexion familiar with the Middle-eastern region of the earth. I can't stand the way people are only skin-deep in their thinking. May the Lord have mercy!

Those of us who believe man is made in God's image think that every face born, dead, or yet to be is only a subset of the greater whole. God is white, black, yellow and red; male and female; Jew and Gentile; and many faces and voices no man has ever seen, or at least associated with God.

Hmm...I wouldn't go so far as to say that God is "white, black, yellow and red; male and female; Jew and Gentile; and many faces and voices no man has ever seen, or at least associated with God." God is not male or female; He is not white, He is not black, He is not yellow, He is not red, nor does He speak with many different voices (unless He speaks through us, His servants, by His Holy Spirit). This philosophy on God reminds me of the discussion between Jesus (God in the flesh) and the Samaritan woman at the well, when she said that her fathers believed God should be worshipped in Samaria, but the Jews believed that God should be worshipped from the Temple Mountain. Jesus answered and said that the day would come (and now has) in which God would be worshipped neither from Samaria nor from Jerusalem, but that, being a Spirit, those who truly worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

God is a Spirit, and as such it is not correct to state that God is all of these things.

[Queen Swanwhite]

Ok this is really annoying me. As u well know i am astrong athesit but why the heck do people portray all the bibical figures as white? They were NOT white they were middle eastern. Also why do christians not want to accept that jesues was a jew. Well frankley i dont want to hear ur replies but to all u people Jesues was NOT WHITE!!!!!!!

What do you mean, christians don't want to accept that Jesus was a Jew?? :mad: Of COURSE we know that! We DO accept it!!! :mad: :mad:

[Parthian King]

I understand Chakal's intent, but Curumo I'm with you. We worship a God who is, who came into human history at a specific point as a specific kind of man. We may not be able to locate His precise hue on the color wheel, but we can get in the ballpark. To depict Him that way is a testimony that glorifies Him as Incarnate and merciful--not because we think olive skin is "hot," or we are olive skinned, or whatever; to deliberately depict Him as we would have Him to be (i.e., like us, whatever color that might be) is to reduce the miracle of the Incarnation and make Christ a servant to our agendas--it glorifies us.

No thanks. He's not a tame Lion. I can buy a kitten at the corner pet shop, but Aslan is Aslan is Aslan.

And Gibby, I'm with you on that stuff about hostility today. What's with that?

[PrinceOfTheWest]

What do you mean, christians don't want to accept that Jesus was a Jew?? :mad: Of COURSE we know that! We DO accept it!!! :mad: :mad:I believe what you're seeing here is a common tactic of bigots, Swanwhite. They set up a false image either out of ignorance or hatred, revile that, and then feel they've done the world a favor by calling everyone's attention to the object of their hatred. What they don't seem to realize is that most half-educated people can see right through their ranting, and it is they who end up looking foolish, not those they are bigoted against.

[Jay7]

lawtman you sure love finding things to complain about :rolleyes:

Please take no offence but i'd rather you think about starting these kinds of threads before you post them, lol.

Also, we dont say hes white, its the media and all who have started drawing pictures and whatever, and for your information, nearly every country has a version, America England and Australia seem to use the same one, but i've also seen many others, theres also a black version of Jesus.

Nobody knows what Jesus looks like.

[Lord Rhoop]

I agree. Although we don't know what the Lord looked like, I can think of a good explanation for why many of the paintings and such portray Jesus as a white/tanned man. One reason I have found is that mostly all Jews in the Lords time were white(or tanned lets call it), unlike the dark skinned Middle-Eastern men around them. Joseph and Mary were Jews as well, making it very possible that the Lord Jesus could have been tanned skin color. But that was only the Lords earthly body. We don't know, and probably can't imagine, what he will appear to look like when we get to Heaven!

[Parthian King]

Well, yes, that might be possible. I'd be curious to hear your sources on the idea that the ancient Jews were lighter than their other Semitic neighbors. In any case, when it comes to the Lord, only Mary's DNA would figure in, right?

[inkspot]

Did you all know that Christmas song ...

Some children see Him lily white
the infant Jesus born this night
Some children see Him lily white
with tresses soft and fair

Some children see Him bronzed and brown
the Lord of heav'n to earth come down
Some children see Him bronzed and brown
with dark and heavy hair
( with dark and heavy hair! )

Some children see Him almond-eyed
This Saviour whom we kneel beside
Some children see Him almond-eyed
With skin of yellow hue!

Some children see Him dark as they
Sweet Mary's Son to whom we pray
Some children see Him dark as they
And, ah! they love Him so!

The children in each different place
Will see the Baby Jesus' face
Like theirs but bright with heav'nly grace
And filled with holy light!

O lay aside each earthly thing
and with thy heart as offering
Come worship now the infant King
'tis love that's born tonight!

I like that. It's love that's born tonight -- who cares what color He is? And of all people, why should thelawtman care what color He is? For him to start this thread is funny, because it would be like me saying, "Why can't you people understand the Easter Bunny, which doesn't exist but if it did exist, is a black rabbit?!"

Something's in the water today ...

[underthefryingpan]

look at our lady of chestohova (sp?) or our lady of good council: they are both black modonnas. there's all sorts of pics of biblical characters, depictiing them from many races/coultures. if you dig deep you can find them.

but the pics are to remind us of their good examples, not to be aesthetically pleasing and acurate pieces of art.

[thelawtman]

i see ur point when a character isnt't real u can make him look any way u want.

[inkspot]

And if He is real, you can make Him look anyway you want, too -- if Dali painted your portrait, I bet we wouldn't recognize you, either.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

i see ur point when a character isnt't real u can make him look any way u want.Oh, Jesus is real, all right. The question is: are you?

[underthefryingpan]

i see ur point when a character isnt't real u can make him look any way u want.
you weren't talkin gto me, were you?
:confused:

[kirke]

i dont know any christians wo deny that jesus was a jew... that is the reason that god seperated the races jew and gentile... to insure the lineage of christ.

As for Jesus being white, no one can be sure exactly what he looks like, though i do think he look arabian (though i do not a guy who is half arabic and you can only see it if you know that he is). I think people persieve him to be white due a very old picture that was painted of Jesus praying at the garden of gethsemany, and people have just continued to make him look similar to that.

[Gibby]

Jesus' existence is a fact. H.G. Wells even knew that.

[Parthian King]

Something's in the water today ...

Inkspot! You're being pithy!

Your point, along with Prince of the West's (which is also quite pithy), is right on, of course. Reminds me of the time I asked a friend of mine who suddenly claimed he was an atheist what God had ever done to him to make him feel that way. He began to answer me with a list of perceived offenses before he realized where he was on the theological map, i.e., LOST: A God that doesn't exist can't have offended you! (Fortunately, he came around.)

Most atheism isn't the pure intellectual variety, it's just plain rage and hate.

[EveningStar]

The moment this stops being a civil discussion, I will lock it. The frank expression of your honest opinions is fine and dandy. Just be ruthfully polite while being ruthlessly honest....

[kirke]

how can you say that Christ didn't exist? Even atheists from the time of Christ and shortly after the ascention of Christ acknowlledge atleast his existance...

try reading something of:
Flavius Josephus
Carius Cornelius Tacitus
Suetonius
Pliny the younger

[EveningStar]

The idea of the "Aryan Jesus" traces back to Alfred Rosenberg. Yeah, the war criminal who was hung in 1946 for crimes against humanity.

Not a very encouraging pedigree for serious scholarly debate, hmm? ;)

Let me point out that I absolutely will not under any circumstances try to squelch the free expression of ideas here on the basis of personal likes or dislikes. Someone PM'd me about that, but I thought it best to let everyone know I never "smite" people whose ideas clash with my own.... :D

[inkspot]

The moment this stops being a civil discussion, I will lock it. The frank expression of your honest opinions is fine and dandy. Just be ruthfully polite while being ruthlessly honest....
It's okay, Chakal, PK and I accuse each other of being pithy all the time! nothing to worry about ...

[Jay7]

i see ur point when a character isnt't real u can make him look any way u want.

You dont know what i look like, do i exist?

Plus read these, its always good for somebody with an open mind to read. :rolleyes: :

http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/who.php
http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/why.php
Proof that he existed: http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/existed.php
http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/foretold.php
http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/came_back.php

[EveningStar]

It's okay, Chakal, PK and I accuse each other of being pithy all the time! nothing to worry about ...

It wasn't that. I knew you liked each other too bad to get really pithed at each other. :D

[inkspot]

It wasn't that. I knew you liked each other too bad to get really pithed at each other. :D
ROFL!!!
That was a good one.

[CSLewisFan]

Pithy :D I learned a new word today, I shall use it all the time now :D Pithy... ::chuckles::

It really doesn’t matter what Jesus looked like. I grew up thinking he was white with brown hair (all the pictures ;)). A mostly African American church I really respect has a picture of a black Jesus in their church.

Historical precedence suggests that he would have been fairly dark skinned.

But what does it matter, really?

-Austin

[Gibby]

Pithy is a word we use to describe a peach or nectarine that is bad and not juicy when you bite into it and your first reaction is to spit it out.http://www.narniafans.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[kirke]

lol thats my reaction to all peaches :-P they have to be canned for a very good long time before i can stand the taste

[Rhyanidd]

Ok this is really annoying me. As u well know i am astrong athesit but why the heck do people portray all the bibical figures as white? They were NOT white they were middle eastern. Also why do christians not want to accept that jesues was a jew. Well frankley i dont want to hear ur replies but to all u people Jesues was NOT WHITE!!!!!!!

A).I think part of it is that people when thinking of other people always tend to make them like the people they are always around...So I think that if I was mostly with Africans I would think of Christ as Black....I dont think its cuz we are ashamed...In Bruchko (sp?) The guy is a missionary and when he tells the South Americns about Christ he can tell that they instantly think of him as South American dressed like them and Did what they did....only without sin.....
B).I am not ashamed of Christ being a jew...I never really think about...I dont find it importent.....so what about where he came from??Its just natrual for me growing up with it I guess.

[Green Knight]

Isn't there a passage in the Bible that said that Yeshua ben Yosef had skin of bronze and hair like lamb's wool?

[inkspot]

And with a sword for a tongue!

Revelation 1:14-16
His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

[Jadis]

Jay7, I totally agree with you. It's really hard to know exactly what Jesus looked like. We weren't alive in the time of Jesus, so how do we know.

And to the original poster, if you're such an atheist why should it matter to you? I know that you think it's a whole racist issue but you yourself have said that you are an atheist, which means that you don't believe in God and if you don't believe in God then you more than likely wouldn't believe in the teachings of the bible,so why are you so worried about how they are protrayed?

Just a question.

[lions mane]

Ok this is really annoying me. As u well know i am astrong athesit but why the heck do people portray all the bibical figures as white? They were NOT white they were middle eastern. Also why do christians not want to accept that jesues was a jew. Well frankley i dont want to hear ur replies but to all u people Jesues was NOT WHITE!!!!!!!
O.K. escuse my languge (for i have christian beleifs) if u don't want replies then why the heak r u posting. I mean seriously. And don't froget that Jewish people are very resemblance to cuacasion people. (ecscuse my spelling).

[waterhogboy]

This is actually quite interesting cos this discussion came up in Britain this Christmas. Some really good Christian society managed to advertise on the Radio (which is a huge thing in a predominantly secular Britain) and the advertisment went as follows:

'Do you think Jesus was black or white? Vote now on <insert website name which I've forgotten>'

I went and checked it out and it was surprising to find that 2/3 of the British public who voted decided that Jesus was white. I think this clearly shows an Athiestic prejudice, not a Christian one, in which those who don't know alot about Christianity 'believe' that Christians think Jesus was white.

In fact, going slightly off subject, it annoys me that Christianity is considered a 'white man' religion. In fact, whites were the last people to become predominantly Christian. The first were Middle Eastern, blacks and Medittereneans.

[inkspot]

The attempt to classify humans into discrete racial groups is greatly complicated by the fact that human populations have been migrating and intermingling for hundreds of centuries. There are no pure races in any meaningful sense, only large geographical groupings whose genetic histories can never be fully known. The traditional names for these groupings—Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid (or Caucasian), and in some systems Australoid—are now controversial in both technical and nontechnical contexts and are likely to give offense no matter how they are used. Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively—and erroneously—to mean “white” or “European” rather than “belonging to the Caucasoid racial group,” a group that includes a variety of peoples generally considered to be nonwhite. This ambiguity, along with the growing aversion among many people to the racial terminology of earlier anthropologists, suggests that Caucasian may soon go the way of the -oid words and disappear even from local police blotters. 2
Of course, the existence of racial differences between peoples remains an obvious, if scientifically indefinite, fact with important social implications. But the terminology of race has shifted in recent years from anthropological classifications toward a more flexible language of geography, culture, and color.
Sounds like everybody is a mutt, really. Nobody is really WHITE except people with albinism that prevents any color in their skin, hair or eyes. And nobody is really totally black, either. So Jesus was somewhere on the spectrum like all the rest of us, but what difference does it make? He can be green if he wants ...

[PrinceOfTheWest]

In fact, going slightly off subject, it annoys me that Christianity is considered a 'white man' religion. In fact, whites were the last people to become predominantly Christian. The first were Middle Eastern, blacks and Medittereneans.That's certainly true! I know a priest who belongs to the Syro-Malankar rite, which was founded on the west coast of the Indian subcontinent by St. Thomas the Apostle. They've been consistently Christian ever since! Yet there's an "ethnic purity" Hindu movement that wants to throw all Christians out of India because they represent a "colonial influence" - and here these Syro-Malankar folk have been Christian longer than Europe has!

[Parthian King]

Yes, some of my studies into cultural imperialism and mission have come off rather odd on this point. Not only did the Church start that way, it is coming full-circle. It is telling that the largest basilica in the world is in Ivory Coast, and the church with the largest congregation is in South Korea. Africa and South America are in a footrace for placing first as the most Christian continents on the planet, outstripping both Europe and North America in both rate of growth and numbers of Christian adherents. And folks, the really powerful growth is post-colonial and indigenous. Thank God for the colors!

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,“Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”--Revelation 7:9-10

[inkspot]

Beautiful, PK!

[onlymystory]

again on the race bit, my history class last semester spent several weeks discussing how the idea of race is completely wrong. there is no such thing as race within one species. a dog is a different race from a cat. but a st. bernard is not a different race than a labrador, they are just variations on the same one. The human race is the exact same. All the colors, cultures, and attitudes of individual people are simply variations on the human race. Its ridiculous in reality for people to even be using the term race because it is an ignorant term.

Sort of following that semi-ingrained prejudice, did anyone watch Glory Road? It struck me that though everyone applauds that fact that America has supposedly moved so far along the way towards equality, we really have gotten worse. It used to be we judged people based on what we could see on the outside. And now we judge based on what we think is on the inside. There's something seriously wrong with us when we judge based on a person's soul when we're only human ourselves. (Note that by saying this I will never back down from my belief that Jesus is the one and only way to heaven. But knowing that doesn't mean I should consider someone inferior just because they don't agree with me yet.)

[Queen Swanwhite]

I believe what you're seeing here is a common tactic of bigots, Swanwhite. They set up a false image either out of ignorance or hatred, revile that, and then feel they've done the world a favor by calling everyone's attention to the object of their hatred. What they don't seem to realize is that most half-educated people can see right through their ranting, and it is they who end up looking foolish, not those they are bigoted against.

So, obviously you're saying i'm not educated because I say Jesus is middle - eastern? Christians DO accept that Jesus was a Jew. That's all I'm saying.

[onlymystory]

Swanwhite, I can't answer fully, but I think POTW was actually just commenting on the manner in which thelawtman posts. He tends to rant and rave at people instead of calmly discussing something. However, I do think you might want to do a little research on Jesus. In his human form he was middle-eastern and so darker in color. He would not have been white. Although as I posted earlier this business of differentiating by race is ridiculous.

[Rhyanidd]

Onlymystory, I agree with you on your point about how "races" is ignorant but I want to say that...
...weather or not what Onlymystory says is true in the words of Luis Palau (I saw him live a few months ago) he said "This is what heaven will look like, this festival right here, Blacks, Hispanics, Whights, Koreans, and all other colors of the skin/hair/eyes, and nobody will care just like right now we have you all standing here worshiping next to somebody completely different, the only thing you have in common is your love for God" At least thats what I remember...I might have added a bit, because I started thinking that and got confused but that Is definatly what he meant...I am sure of it!

[onlymystory]

maybe I wasn't completely clear. I realize and wholeheartedly embrace the idea of different skin colors, cultures, and backgrounds in Heaven. I don't think we will suddenly become all the same color. How boring would that be? No, what I meant was that the idea that humans can be defined by race is a sign of ignorance, because the word race is actually a fairly new one in that context. Also, when I say ignorance please note that ignorance means "not knowing" not stupid. Sorry if I was confusing earlier.

[Aslan's Son]

Ok this is really annoying me. As u well know i am astrong athesit but why the heck do people portray all the bibical figures as white? They were NOT white they were middle eastern. Also why do christians not want to accept that jesues was a jew. Well frankley i dont want to hear ur replies but to all u people Jesues was NOT WHITE!!!!!!!

You're right-Jesus wasn't Caucasian. He was a Jew; if he'd been Caucasian, he'd have been declared 'King of the Gentiles' or 'King of the Romans' in my personal opinion, not 'King of the Jews'. He would've been dark skinned, with either black or dark brown hair, and muscular (not bodybuilder type muscular, but from all the work he did as a carpenter, he would've gained a bit of muscle, not the slim person we often see him as portrayed). Also, I've never been completely sure whether he actually looks like we all see him portrayed (the long hair, the short beard, and the mustache), because that image actually came from places like Turkey and other Middle Eastern countries-not Israel. :/

[EveningStar]

Maybe we'll all be ultraviolet so nobody can say "I told you so!" It also means if we put on sunblock we can walk about invisibly and do al kinds of mischief. :D

[Rhyanidd]

Chakal you arent supposed to do that in heaven!!LOL!

Onlymystory I wasnt disagreeing with you and I understood perfectly....maybe I was the confusing one....I was just trying to make the point that ugg how to put into words...that skin color doesnt matter so why does the starter of this thread have a problem with it???

[purplemonkeyhunter]

I go to a Catholic high school, and they are pretty big on art there and there are 3 statues/sculptures they have by the 2 main entrances of the building. One is Mary (I believe holding a baby Jesus), another is Joseph holding a, oh lets say 2 year old Jesus, and the last is of Jesus himself. All 3 have blue eyes, blonde hair, and very pale skin. And that is extremely unrealistic to what Jesus, Mary, and Joseph would have looked like. I think most Christians know Jesus wasn't white, but people are used to imagining him that way, doing art of him in that style. I would say mostly because of tradition, that was/is how most people depict Jesus in drawings and artwork, and maybe a little because people want him to be white, they wouldn't be comfterable worshiping a God didn't like them or was the popular image or w/e. I kind of have a problem with it, but I'm also into a lot of artwork that show Jesus as a black man, I've seen pictures of him with dreadlocks. I think it's more of the artists preferance and/or how they picture Jesus. I think, or hope at least, most Christians do realize and understand Jesus was Jewish, he had Jewish parents, and practiced that religion. There really isn't any room to interpret it diffrently in the bible, Jesus was Jew, it's a fact.

[onlymystory]

sorry reepicheepfan, I guess we had a little miscommunication. As far as what the starter of this thread said, to be honest, I would just ignore him. His questions generate good discussion, but I've yet to see him genuinely contribute and very often make rude, inconsiderate remarks towards others and their beliefs.

[Queen Swanwhite]

However, I do think you might want to do a little research on Jesus. In his human form he was middle-eastern and so darker in color. He would not have been white.

Excuse me? I know rightly that Jesus was middle - eastern. That's what I was saying! I don't need to do 'research'.

[onlymystory]

So, obviously you're saying i'm not educated because I say Jesus is white? Christians DO accept that Jesus was a Jew. That's all I'm saying.

k, maybe i'm confused. i thought that right here you were saying you thought Jesus was white. Did I miss read that?

[Queen Swanwhite]

Sorry, I said that I thought Jesus was white. He's not. That's what I was trying to say. And also, just because I put :mad: this symbol doesn't mean I'm genuinly angry. I know that Jesus was a Jew and I don't know how thelawtman got the idea that christians didn't believe that Jesus was a Jew!

[onlymystory]

sorry, my bad too. yeah that thelawtman likes to get people blood boiling. I really don't care too much for his attitude.

[Gibby]

sorry, my bad too. yeah that thelawtman likes to get people blood boiling. I really don't care too much for his attitude.

Your right, I think he does too. He makes me chuckle when I see his responses because he wants to see us get all worked up. For some of us, it has worked on a few different occasions.

[Queen Swanwhite]

That's true, but I don't think we should gang up on him. :)

[Parthian King]

Actually, I was never miffed at thelawtman; he is what he is, and until a Higher Power sees fit to move him, and him respond, that's the way he will stay. There are others who read these threads and don't post, however, and it is good to set the record straight for them. Some charges, no matter how absurd, still need to be answered. I take that as part of the reason we are here (i.e., on the planet, not just in this forum).

Besides, isn't it fun talking about Jesus, whatever the reason we got started doing it?

[Gibby]

That's true, but I don't think we should gang up on him. :)

I don't think anyone has. In fact, everyone has been doing an awesome job of being patient and reaching out to him.

Romans 12:20-21

20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=12&verse=19&end_verse=21&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-28251b)] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

[inkspot]

Nothing but love for thelawtman. He's cute, because he's trying so hard to get Christians (and others I guess) mad at him -- in one thread, he declared that he had burned copies of LOTR (to enrage fantasy fans) and the Bible (to enrage Christians). And I agree with PK: talking about Jesus and our faith in Him is a good thing, no matter who starts the thread with what erroneous statement.

[onlymystory]

I enjoy talking about some of the questions he's posted and I do hope he listens. My issue is just that on several threads he has turned mean, swearing at people and calling names (some very inappropriate). Despite our issues as far as faith go, there is absolutely no excuse for people who behave like that. I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me but I have a very big problem who call me a 'brainwashed idiot who can't think' and then wonder why I'm upset. If you disagree, then rationally and logically post your thoughts. Being inconsiderate and downright rude is never an appropriate way to deal with people. And anyone who does act like that is immature, wrong, and needs to refrain from talking until they can treat people with respect. That probably sounds harsh to some people but that is more than just a pet peeve with me. I find it very offensive and it is extremely difficult for me to respect or even remain interested in people like that on any level. This is why I don't care for him. He can have his opinions all he wants but discuss them politely the same way everyone else on this site does. He's the only person I've met so far; atheist, christian, or otherwise who talks like that with so little regard for people's feelings. I may be wrong, but I have a difficult time getting past that.

[Gibby]

Luke 23:34

34Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

[Parthian King]

Onlymystory, you're right. Gibby, you're way, way right too. Forgiveness is not saying, "That's no big deal" (often, it is a big deal). Neither is it saying, "So I don't rot inside from bitterness, I'm going to let this one go" (though you will if you don't).

Forgiveness is saying, "By the love of the one who loved me, I will act as He acted and treat you as the potential prince or princess that you are. I release you from any emotional or spiritual debt you may have incurred."

Thelawtman needs that from us, and I'm glad to give it.

[NkandSKforever]

I agree totally Parthian King.

[inkspot]

Somewhere in Lewis' writings (it's probably Mere Christianity and I will bump into it in the next week or so as we continue with the reading group in the other Thread), he says that for all we know, even the mean guy who insults may be making the very best possible use he can of a poor upbringing and bad background -- and some of us who have a Christian heritage, supportive family and the benefit of a great background could be functioning so far below our Christian potential, that we're even worse off than the insulting guy. Does that make sense? No doubt thelawtman would like to feel as sure of his place in the universe as we feel in Christ, but he can't, and it's no wonder he's angry. I just hope, if he reads this, he gets the truth of it: Jesus still loves him! And Jesus' flawed followers here love him, too, as best we can.

[Queen Swanwhite]

I don't think anyone has. In fact, everyone has been doing an awesome job of being patient and reaching out to him.

Romans 12:20-21

20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=12&verse=19&end_verse=21&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-28251b)] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

I was talking about TALKING about him.

[the Large Voice]

I have no idea what Jesus will look like, all that I know and care about is that I love Him and can't wait to see him in the rapture and/or Heaven!:)

[Black_Coffee]

Let's get it straight: painters in XV or XIV century didn't have the SLIGHTEST idea if he was white or not, because NOWADAYS we have more information.

And do U know that painters in XV-XIV had that "habbit", when drawing, following RULES, I mean, even If they KNEW that he isn't white, they wouldn't DARE to draw him not white... The church would've been scandalized and would've burned them all out.

That's why they drawed him white.
I suggest, that you should buy yourself one of those "History of art" encyclopedias.

[Gryphon]

Jesus spent all day out in the sun, im pretty sure he had a really good tan and that was probably as pale as he got.

[gunndreams]

Jesus, in His incarnated human form, is both fully man and fully God. Yet, He was Jewish only on His mother's side! He did not have a human father. I'm very sure He looked like every other Jewish man out there, but he certainly did not look like Joseph!

Jesus's lineage was from Shem, of the seed of Abraham, of the seed of the woman Mary. His lineage was not Hamitic, so I don't see a reason why many African-Americans are claiming that He was black other than to lionize their race-based political agendas. His lineage was not Japhethic, so of course He could not have been Caucasian or Asian. But never mind that. God promised Abraham that through his seed "all the nations of the world will be blessed." This promise has clearly been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, Yeshua Ha Mashiach.

[onlymystory]

ouch, gunndreams. we can all state our opinions, but lets do it in love. Not everyone claims Jesus is white or black or orange or purple for political agendas. Many people just either haven't thought about it or it gives them more comfort to think about it that way. there's no need to attack them for that. just calmly correct them.

[inkspot]

It's such a silly issue, anyway, considering Christ was [whatever color He was] for only 33 years of His eternal existence. If you're basing your self esteem on His race for those brief years, it's kind of like basing your pride in your grown-up son on the fact that he learned to walk at one year old ... who cares, really? It's fun to speculate, and we all have an image of Jesus, but it's not that pivotal if it's not the correct one. I mean, none of us alive today ever saw Him as He was back then, so we're all mistaken in some point or another ...

[onlymystory]

and if we think about it. God says man and women were created in His image. Well, since that's the case, I'd say we're all getting just one side of God when we limit him to one color. But he certainly must have had fun creating us in all our differences.

[Spare Oom]

Has anyone else read Antonia Forest's books about the Marlows (Autumn Term, The Ready-Made Family, etc)? In End of Term the girls at Kingscote School put on a nativity play. They assume that Miranda, a Jewish girl, won't want to take part but she says that she ought to be in it, really, because the characters in the play were "Jewish. All of them. Mary. Joseph. The shepherds. Practically everyone in sight." Only one girl, Lawrie, can't see this, insisting that Joseph and the others were "Christians, of course." :)

I believe that Antonia Forest had a Jewish father and a Protestant mother, but she converted to Roman Catholicism as an adult.

Enjoyable books, which touch on some thought-provoking themes. A bit surreal to read though, as they were written in different decades from the 1940s to the 1980s and each book is set in the decade in which it was written, even though the characters only age a couple of years over the series of about a dozen books.

Sorry, I've gone a bit off-topic here, but End of Term does relate to the above discussion.