Arwens role in LOTR

[polly&digory]

Personal opinion of Arwen was that her role in the movies was pretty big. I like Liv Tyler but i wish they had left in Elronds son. I have to say one of the best moments in the return of the king was when Aragorn saw Arwen.

[DeplorableWord]

Ya, I agree, and I love her!:)

[Kitanna]

I hate Arwen so much in the movies. She was supposed to hang around Rivendell and sew the King's banner. Besides Glorindel was so cool, and alas he was cut from the movie to make room for Arwen. Not that Liv Tyler is a terrible actress, but to make room for her some stuff that should have stayed had to be changed.

Elronds son
Elrond had two sons.

[glamel]

yep, i love her too,
what i like was when she saw the image of her son, and then she return to her father and asked what did he see?,
she is beautiful,realy pretty. :)

[polly&digory]

I hate Arwen so much in the movies. She was supposed to hang around Rivendell and sew the King's banner. Besides Glorindel was so cool, and alas he was cut from the movie to make room for Arwen. Not that Liv Tyler is a terrible actress, but to make room for her some stuff that should have stayed had to be changed.


Elrond had two sons.
Im glad im not the only one who hated the huge role she got. Obviously she wouldn't do the movie unless she had a bigger role.

sorry, i knew he had two i just was refering to the fact that Arwen did the things that one of his sons did in the book.

[Kitanna]

Well, if I was the daughter of the lead singer to Aerosmith I'd want a pretty big part too. Still, that gets on my nerves.

About the Elrond and his two sons thing, I figured you knew, but it would bother me if I didn't point it out just to make sure. ;)

[Impreza]

I hate Arwen so much in the movies. She was supposed to hang around Rivendell and sew the King's banner. Besides Glorindel was so cool, and alas he was cut from the movie to make room for Arwen. Not that Liv Tyler is a terrible actress, but to make room for her some stuff that should have stayed had to be changed.


Elrond had two sons.

Glorfindel: Your boyfriend's out there in the woods with the Halflings. 1 of them is dying. Aren't u going to save him?

Arwen: *Suprised, :eek: stop sewing. "They're in the woods? Owh i must seek them at once!" (taking Glorfindel's horse & sword & ride faster than any horses in Seabisuit)

Hahaha.

Elrond sons: Elladan & Elrohir. They're supposed to appear in LOTR: ROTK if i'm not mistaken.

[Eressea]

arwen was like totally awsome in the book... but in the movie she had a completly different nature and all.. (besides not being any where near as beutiful as she should have been...but that would hvae been impossible )... was it liv tyler that insisted on the larger roles? or did pj decide just to give her them? they actually had planned to have her at helms deep... but thank goodness they changed thier mind.. i mnea, what is she supossed to be? NOT a sword wielding crazy princess..
tolkien did such a good job on the few female charachters that he made... why did they have to muss it?

[cathyrh]

I love Arwen and Liv Tyler! She's sooo pretty and a bloody good actress!

Elronds sons appeared in FOTR, they're sitting beside Elrond in the council scene. I'm sure it's them!!! And they fixed Isildurs sword in ROTK. :P

xP

[purplemonkeyhunter]

I love the charecter of Arwen, in the books and the movies, but I think they changed her too much. She wasn't in the book alot except for the appendices, but I loved a lot of the stuff with Aragorn relating to her, if that makes sense. I think they did kind of focus on her too much.

[Kitanna]

Elronds sons appeared in FOTR, they're sitting beside Elrond in the council

One elf was Figwit and one was Glorifindel.

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

I hated how they gave Arwen a big part in the movies! She is only mentioned in the books a few times! GOSH!!! It bugs me so much! I wish Glorfindel came instead of Arwen, when she safes Frodo, like it supposed to be! And Frodo can take care of the Naguls like in the book! It's is just soooooo annoying! :mad:

[Eressea]

i dont really object to liv being cast as arwen, altho my portrayal of her was totally different, and thats why i think they could have gotten someone better, but i dont like how much they change her... try comparing the movie arwen to the book arwen. they arent anything alike at all really..

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

i dont really object to liv being cast as arwen, altho my portrayal of her was totally different, and thats why i think they could have gotten someone better, but i dont like how much they change her... try comparing the movie arwen to the book arwen. they arent anything alike at all really..

I know and that bugs me so much!!!

[slideyfoot]

Personally, I applaud what they tried to do with Arwen in the film, and strongly support the reasoning behind it; namely, Tolkien's work was a product of his times insofar as its rather sexist. The film attempted to redress this balance slightly, subsuming Glorfindel's role into Arwen's, along with plumping out her screentime. Eowyn is the only female character in the entire book who is elevated at all beyond stereotypical 'female' roles; at least Tolkien made that one concession to 50% of the world's population. ;)

However, I wasn't hugely impressed with Liv Tyler's performance in the film, though I wouldn't say she was particularly bad either; competent would probably be the word I'd choose. The recent Narnia film did a better job of removing the sexist attitudes of the fifties, but thats another thread.

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

Personally, I applaud what they tried to do with Arwen in the film, and strongly support the reasoning behind it; namely, Tolkien's work was a product of his times insofar as its rather sexist. The film attempted to redress this balance slightly, subsuming Glorfindel's role into Arwen's, along with plumping out her screentime. Eowyn is the only female character in the entire book who is elevated at all beyond stereotypical 'female' roles; at least Tolkien made that one concession to 50% of the world's population. ;)

However, I wasn't hugely impressed with Liv Tyler's performance in the film, though I wouldn't say she was particularly bad either; competent would probably be the word I'd choose. The recent Narnia film did a better job of removing the sexist attitudes of the fifties, but thats another thread.

very true, but I loved Glorfindel in the books, so i wish they didn't cut him out, I mean I understand why, but that's just my opion!!!

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Tolkien's work was a product of his times insofar as its rather sexist. I differ strongly. Tolkien's work was a timeless masterpiece. It is our times that have the problem with silly passing fads like obsession with "sexism". Jackson simply displayed more of his misunderstanding of the literary work by bending the masterpiece to the times, instead of presenting the masterpiece as it was and letting the times like it or leave it.

[slideyfoot]

Heh - no work is flawless, and Tolkien's books are certainly flawed. Largely, as I mentioned, this is due to the time in which he wrote them; his opinions are typical of the fifties. The oppression of women, unfortunately, is not merely a 'passing fad'. I only wish it were. I assume what you're referring to is political correctness, which is a rather different issue.

Also, Jackson's version is indeed an adaptation, and as such is necessarily 'adapted' to the times - unless you preferred the sexist attitudes of Tolkien's day and would support them? To find an untouched version of anything, people will obviously look to the original; adaptations, by their very nature, are not supposed to be regurgitated source material.

You're going to set me off now, despite (judging by your birth date) having been around during the original Women's Lib ;) . So, to go a little off-topic:

Its depressing that the efforts of the Women's Lib and various other groups who fought for women's rights often fall on deaf ears these days. 'Feminists' are not some group of jack-booted killjoys confiscating people's lipstick; they are people who believe in women's equality with men on a legal, political and social level. I'm still waiting for the first female US president, the first female chancellor of the exchequer, not to mention equal pay (women are still paid considerably less than men on average), an end to female genital mutilation, an end to deaths as a result of domestic abuse...the list goes on.

Feminism still has a long way to go, and a lot of work to do. Just three reasons why:



The 2005 Annual earnings survey, issued by the Office of National Statistics, shows that the full-time gender pay gap is 17.2% - a reduction of just 12.2% since the Equal Pay Act came into force 30 years ago. The pay gap between women working part-time and men working full-time is 38.5% and has barely changed in 30 years.

The pay gap is also contributing to the shortfall in women's retirement income, which is just 57% of men's.




"I was genitally mutilated at the age of ten. I was told by my late grandmother that they were taking me down to the river to perform a certain ceremony, and afterwards I would be given a lot of food to eat. As an innocent child, I was led like a sheep to be slaughtered.

Once I entered the secret bush, I was taken to a very dark room and undressed. I was blindfolded and stripped naked. I was then carried by two strong women to the site for the operation. I was forced to lie flat on my back by four strong women, two holding tight to each leg. Another woman sat on my chest to prevent my upper body from moving. A piece of cloth was forced in my mouth to stop me screaming. I was then shaved.

When the operation began, I put up a big fight. The pain was terrible and unbearable. During this fight, I was badly cut and lost blood. All those who took part in the operation were half-drunk with alcohol. Others were dancing and singing, and worst of all, had stripped naked.

I was genitally mutilated with a blunt penknife.

After the operation, no one was allowed to aid me to walk. The stuff they put on my wound stank and was painful. These were terrible times for me. Each time I wanted to urinate, I was forced to stand upright. The urine would spread over the wound and would cause fresh pain all over again. Sometimes I had to force myself not to urinate for fear of the terrible pain. I was not given any anaesthetic in the operation to reduce my pain, nor any antibiotics to fight against infection. Afterwards, I haemorrhaged and became anaemic. This was attributed to witchcraft. I suffered for a long time from acute vaginal infections."


An analysis of 10 separate domestic violence prevalence studies by the Council of Europe showed consistent findings: 1 in 4 women experience domestic violence over their lifetimes and between 6-10% of women suffer domestic violence in a given year (Council of Europe, 2002).

- The 2001/02 British Crime Survey (BCS) found that there were an estimated 635, 000 incidents of domestic violence in England and Wales. 81% of the victims were women and 19% were men. Domestic violence incidents also made up nearly 22% of all violent incidents reported by participants in the BCS. (Home Office, July 2002).

- Repeat victimisation is common. The results of the British Crime Survey found that more than half (57%) of victims of domestic violence are involved in more than one incident . No other type of crime has a rate of repeat victimisation as high (Home Office, July 2002).

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Hey, that's nothing. Check out this report: http://www.dcaf.ch/women/pb_women_ex_sum.pdf. Over 200 million women are missing from today's world, thanks to widespread and liberal abortion laws which lead to sex-selective abortions - and not just in third world countries, either.

200 million - 15 times the number as died in the Nazi holucaust. Now that's oppression!

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

Hey, that's nothing. Check out this report: http://www.dcaf.ch/women/pb_women_ex_sum.pdf. Over 200 million women are missing from today's world, thanks to widespread and liberal abortion laws which lead to sex-selective abortions - and not just in third world countries, either.

200 million - 15 times the number as died in the Nazi holucaust. Now that's oppression!

Wow, that's very interesting!

[inkspot]

I loved Arwen's expanded role in the movies, and I loved liv Tyler's portrayal of Arwen. I thought it was great they made Aragron's true love a courageous shield maiden in her own right -- big plus for me. It was too bad they didn't have time to develop the books on screen so Elrond's whole family could have had their due, but I have no problems with Arwen. I thought it was terrific what they did with her role.

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

I think that it would have been funny if Aragorn and Arwen some how got separeted like on the last page of the book! My friend Ariana thinks that, too!

[Gondor Knight of Narnia]

I saw the LOTR movies before I read the books(Except ROTK, i read the book while waiting for the movie :D ), so I didn't think much of Arwen's roll till I read FOTR. I enjoy Arwen's roll in the movie, I think PJ and etc had em look @ who was thinking what that wasn't mentioned in the book...like for example, Arwen's worrying about and supporting Aragorn. I like Arwen's roll in the LOTR movies just fine :D

(I like the Legolas and Gimli dialog on your signature,Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf, that's one of my fave parts of the extended Two Towers :D )

[Eressea]

hm.. some things that pj did with arwen were ok...but others werent... im still objecting to trading her for glor. it wasnt her charachter to be doing that.. it just wasnt...

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

I saw the LOTR movies before I read the books(Except ROTK, i read the book while waiting for the movie :D ), so I didn't think much of Arwen's roll till I read FOTR. I enjoy Arwen's roll in the movie, I think PJ and etc had em look @ who was thinking what that wasn't mentioned in the book...like for example, Arwen's worrying about and supporting Aragorn. I like Arwen's roll in the LOTR movies just fine :D

(I like the Legolas and Gimli dialog on your signature,Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf, that's one of my fave parts of the extended Two Towers :D )

Mine too and the part were Merry and Pippin are fighting out who's taller and fighting over the Ent draught! LOL HEHEHE :D

[narniangirl25]

I really like Arwen but i like eowyn better!!

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

Eowyn Rocks! Talk about girl power!!! :) :D :)

[SacredSpirit]

Eowyn and Arwen both did a great job and thier both pretty

and it was funny when Eowyn just bust out siging at her cousins funeral
she sang horrible and she has a big mouth

[Eressea]

i wouldnt say it was funny... true she didnt have the greatest voice.. but i think she did a fairly good job at making it look like she was really saddend and all...

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

I don't remember that part! That was in the extended right?

[Impreza]

I love Arwen and Liv Tyler! She's sooo pretty and a bloody good actress!

Elronds sons appeared in FOTR, they're sitting beside Elrond in the council scene. I'm sure it's them!!! And they fixed Isildurs sword in ROTK. :P

xP

The ones sitting besides Elrond at the 'Council of Elrond' attended by various races all over Middle-Earth was not his son. It was Figwit, dont ask me who or why...the character appear on the TCG card.

As for Glorfindel where her role was stolen by Arwen. She appeared in the TCG Card as a special edition card but make an appearence at the Aragorn's coronation at Minas Tirith. Look at the person with golden hair on the left just before they gave way to Arwen to set aside the banner...that's Glorfindel!

[slideyfoot]

Hey, that's nothing. Check out this report: http://www.dcaf.ch/women/pb_women_ex_sum.pdf. Over 200 million women are missing from today's world, thanks to widespread and liberal abortion laws which lead to sex-selective abortions - and not just in third world countries, either.

200 million - 15 times the number as died in the Nazi holucaust. Now that's oppression!

Thanks for that - interesting report, though its an estimate rather than empirical data. Strange that you only mention abortion in your post, which in my opinion pales in comparison to the honour killings, acid attacks, 'kitchen accidents', sexual assaults and domestic violence:

Women live in a very insecure world indeed. Many fall victim to gender selective abortion and infanticide (boys being preferred to girls). Others do not receive the same amount of food and medical attention as their brothers, fathers and husbands. Others again fall prey to sexual offenders, to 'honour killings' and to acid attacks (most often for refusing a suitor). An estimated 5,000 women are burnt to death each year in 'kitchen accidents' because their dowry was seen as being too modest. Scores succumb to the special horrors and hardships that conflict, war and post-conflict situations reserve for girls and women. A shocking number of women are killed within their own walls through domestic violence. Rape and sexual exploitation remain, moreover, a reality for countless women; millions are trafficked; some sold like cattle.

[SacredSpirit]

I don't remember that part! That was in the extended right?
yeah, i have the extended version on dvd

[Nolo]

Will the owner of this thread please move it to the 'Other Worlds' Forum. Let's try to keep our topics on the right boards, please. :)
~Nolo

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

yeah, i have the extended version on dvd
Yeah, so does my friend! I've seen them all extended and theatrical, and have all the theatrical, but I'm saving up for the extended; they rock and I'm going to buy TTT first, cause it's my favorite. Then probly TROTK. Then last but certainly not least TFOTR!!! :D

[DryadofLanternWaste]

Eowyn and Arwen both did a great job and thier both pretty

and it was funny when Eowyn just bust out siging at her cousins funeral
she sang horrible and she has a big mouth

How was that funny Anime Kitten? She was singing a dirge, while her voice cracked from emotion. Her cousin Théodred, heir to the throne had just died. Her brother was about to be driven into exile. Her uncle was worse than dead, weakened and controlled by Saruman. She was justified in her grief. The scene was anything, but humorous.

As for Arwen, her strength was in her wisdom and knowledge, not in a sword. She had no business riding out on Asfolath. Considering what happened to her mother, I hardly think the Elrond would allow her to go through anything so dangerous. Galadriel perhaps could have withstood the Nazgúl, but Arwen was not one of the Exiles. I don't think her cannon character could. Another thing that bothered me though, was how Elrond kept trying to make her flee to the havens. Arwen would leave with her father, or remain and become mortal. However, she did not have to make her choice until he left. This whole business of "Arwen is dying" makes no sense. It is true that Elrond was grieved and longed for Arwen not to choose mortality, but he also realized the necessity of her binding to Aragorn for the sake of the line of Elros. He also told Aragorn that he would permit their marriage, however the bride-price was something near impossible, much like the task given to Beren for the hand of Lúthien. I think Arwen’s character could have been done with more gentleness, and greater beauty. I think if PJ had shown more of her wisdom it would have been truer.

As for Éowyn, I think her character wasn’t icy enough, she was weaker than I imagined and less desperate. The Houses of Healing was one of the essential sections in her character development and it was removed as well as her dialogue with the Witchking. The latter showed her mettle and I was disappointed that it was reduced to a few sentences.

Overall, I think that Arwen's character was changed to something it should not have been. While Éowyn's was weakened, her pain not fully explained, and her healing never mentioned.

[Eressea]

hm..... yea

[Kitanna]

and it was funny when Eowyn just bust out siging at her cousins funeral
she sang horrible and she has a big mouth
I thought that was a great added scene. And it wasn't that horrible of sinigng. Besides her cousin was dead and she was doing a lament for him. It was very emotional for her character.

[Eressea]

i think i agree fully with that one...
i likd her singing...

[faithful1]

i agree too, Arwen is of my favorites characters, but it's too bad that ever though her brothers were somewhere in the movie, they had no speaking roles and were hardly on screen. And i didn't it when they put her instead of Glorifindel to find Frodo, she wasn't even supposed to make the flood, her dad and gandalf was supposed too! as for the eowyn singing at her cousins funeral, i thought it was beautifully emotional..if it had really happened to me or if it was real i might have cried..i watched the fotr ee before i read the books, so before the two towers came out i was already done with reading all 3.

[Eressea]

it seems a lot o peoples saw the fotr before reading the books..

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

I think that's because TFotR really got them into LotR!

[Eressea]

yea, i guess... i just cant think of how it would be to have seen any of them afore reading the books at least a billion times first?

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

yea, i guess... i just cant think of how it would be to have seen any of them afore reading the books at least a billion times first?
I know what you mean! That's like the book "Inkheart" is coming out in a movie and I already read the book and if they mess it up i will seriouly hurt somebody! It's like my favorite book! Well not just "Inkheart" but also "Inkspell" it's sequal!

[Kitanna]

if they mess it up i will seriouly hurt somebody! It's like my favorite book! Well not just "Inkheart" but also "Inkspell" it's sequal!
I think what we need to remember (myself included) is that such things are adaptations of the books. The director's one vision of the book.

[Elvess_Leawyn_Greenleaf]

I know it just relaly bugs me! And Inkheart is such a good book if would be a shame to change it! :(

[Twilight]

I liked her role in LotR, even though she did steal Glorfindel's horse! :p I understand that Peter Jackson wanted to maximize the female parts because LotR is a male-dominated series. Liv was a very good Arwen. :)

[Aravis Kenobi]

I hated her role in the books; I hardly even remembering Tolkien mentioning her. Frankly, they widened Eowyn and Arwen's roles more than in the books. Well-deserved, I'd say. Arwen is my second favorite character, next to Legolas. Thankfully, they made Legolas more casual instead of so formal like in the books.

[fernshirehobbit]

In the movies, her role is way more extensive than in the books. At first I hated but now it doesn't bother me as much. I still hate that Glorifindle's role was annexed over to her charictor. In the books I thought he was so cool.

[Tsukiko]

^Oh yeah. That'd would have been kool if Glorfindel had done the riding, not Arwen.

[Aravis Kenobi]

I think he's in ROTK; after Arwen reveals herself to Aragorn at his coronation. He's the blonde-haired elf standing sort of behind Elrond (I think)

[NARNIANKNIGHT]

Personal opinion of Arwen was that her role in the movies was pretty big. I like Liv Tyler but i wish they had left in Elronds son. I have to say one of the best moments in the return of the king was when Aragorn saw Arwen.

Arwen is ok. I like Eowyn.

[Copperfox]

It did no harm to let Arwen have a heroic bit in FOTR helping Frodo in a story so much of which is all male. But I wish the Elf-Lord Glorfindel had been retained in the movie somehow. Did you know that Glorfindel was the one who foresaw that the Witch-King would not be killed by a man?

Speaking of the Top Nazgul: the film script of ROTK should have stated openly that Sauron was giving increased power to the Witch-King, which would explain why Gandalf couldn't stop him. Without that explanation, it looks as if Gandalf is actually LESS powerful than Aragorn, since back in FOTR Aragorn had singlehandedly kicked the butts of five Nazgul INCLUDING the Witch-King.


Joseph Ravitts, author of "Southward the Tigers"