Edmund In Tlww

[TurkishDelight]

I was re-reading TLWW (again!) today and I got thinking...how much do you think C.S Lewis meant for us to loathe Edmund and was Edmund a villain? For nearly the whole book Ed behaved like a total arse (especially towards poor Lucy) and betrayed his siblings, Aslan etc to the White Witch for his own selfish reasons alone..

It's like Edmund was meant to be the villain of the story, the one we're supposed to hate and only the White Witch was worse than him in terms of evil, especially when compared to the other characters who were all good, loyal and brave...

Yet for me, I couldn't hate the kid. I actually thought he was the best character if only because he had flaws, to me he seemed the most fleshed out character in the series. I don't think it's enough to excuse his behavior but in the story Lewis did give something of a reason for why Edmund was the way he'd been through most of TLWW "that horrid school where he'd seemed to go horribly wrong" (or something...can't remember the exact quote). Plus you can argue that he was drugged by the witch, but then personally I think Edmund largely knew what he was doing and was in control of his own mind (save from the intense craving of Turkish Delight but if he had been good like the others he probably could've found a way to overcome it...or could he? I'm not too sure actually) when he betrayed everyone so that doesn't count much for me... And really, the boy redeems himself pretty well in the end, destroying the White Witches wand and nearly dying in the process, surely enough to help us to forgive him right?

Anyway what are your opinions on this?

[Rhindon]

I think a lot of what Lewis was trying to show was just our own rebellious nature. Edmund had the same feelings of entitlement that we all have and in a way, the same sense of entitlement that Adam and Eve fell under in the garden. Was the serpent wholly to blame for the fall of man? No. But it was on him the greatest curse fell. Even though both Adam and Eve made the choice themselves.

[cslouis]

Yeah. I think the most powerful thing that was said about Aslan and really about being faithful is that one in faith is always good, but one in faith isn't always safe. That is something that we have foregotten as a culture: that being faithful does not mean being nice, kind, or weak, but most certainly good. Beaver says, "Aslan is not safe. He is good."

[rosymole]

i think the Ed was there to show that all people have floors and can act in a 'bad' way - but he was also used to show the goodness inothers, that they could forgive and sacrifice themsleves for him. he is an ablsoute swine for most of the book, but i think that mkes me like him more in the later stories - especially in VD

[Jene Sai]

:unsure: I don't agree with cslouis on the interpretation of "Aslan is not safe. He is good."

Biblically being described as good is a reference to deity. Jesus once questions why someone calls Him good when none are good but the Father (I'm flipping through the concordance but I can't seem to find this particular verse).

Faithfullness, as far as my limited theology has taken me, is equated mainly with obedience. But, as we will not be perfected until the resurection, we could not even remotely consider ourselves good (non-deity sense).

Please let me cslouis if I have misunderstood you.

[Rhindon]

I think that when the man called him good, Jesus was making a point that no one can be really "good" except the father.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

But we all know that Jesus was good since he and the father were the same in deity.

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

As for the safe but not good, of course God isn't safe. Tolkien used the same thing in his books. Gimli asks if Treebeard is dangerous. "Of course he is. Just as I am dangerous. And just how Aragorn and Legolas are dangerous. Even you Gimli, are dangerous."

[cslouis]

Originally posted by Jene Sai@Sep 28 2004, 11:52 PM
Please let me cslouis if I have misunderstood you.
Well, I am just quoting "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe" when Mr. Beaver described Aslan as Good but not Safe. Is all. That made sense to me because in popular culture and in the church, men are becomming less attracted to faith because faith feels so feminine sometimes and I like to be reminded that faith is Good but not Safe as well. It is very scarey sometimes. Is that more clear?

[Lewis is my hero]

I think he represents each one of us. For this he is my favorite character. I felt like him especially when he is crowned at the end and called "Just". It speaks to me of God's mercy. Even when we sin through pride (to want to be a king) or sensuality (turkish delights) God still can forgive us. Each time we betray God or others in a serious way, we choose death. Edmund deserved to die from his sin but Aslan took the justice on himself and died in his stead. I like the scene of him talking to Aslan in the background soon after he returns to his brothers. It reminds me of the Sacrament of Confession. I like to place myself in Edmund's shoes and imagine myself speaking to Aslan. It is a good place to begin to pray to Christ our King, who is the child recently born in a manger. We have to all be a warrior.

[Lewis is my hero]

I like how the kids go away for a long time and come back as if nothing happened. I think it shows how every moment there is an entire battle for our souls. Right now we must choose the good. Right now we can be warriors. Right now we can be valiant and also sadly right now we can renounce our place in Aslan's ranks through sin and grasping "turkish delights" when it is not given to us.

[Jacksie]

I always loved Eustace and Edmund the bestest! I love reading their little heart to heart after Eustace stops being a dragon in Voyage.
I don't think Lewis intended people to hate Edmund. I think all the things like being picked on and resenting the attention Lucy got and the magical turkish delight are there for a purpose. And even when I read the books as a child I always felt sorry for him, rather than angry at what he'd done.
It's a children's book, children can easily identify with the way Edmund acts. I don't have older siblings but I have a cousin who used to lord it over me all the time when I was a child and because I worshipped her I got her back by being horrible to her. If a witch had offered to make me a princess and make my cousin my servant I'd have taken it up, no worries.

[Deep_Magic]

I think Edmund was like that to show us how we can all be selfish at times - as he went to the White Witch as he wanted to become King of Narina, amongst other reasons. It just shows us how we can be selfish at times but have good intentions and morals that sometimes are clouded by selfishness and jealousy, etc.