Where does it say in the Bible that Satan was a fallen angel?

[FallOfFingolfin]

Where is it said that Satan was once the chief of the angels, and that his pride and envy was his downfall?

[Lord Rhoop]

I, too, have that same question! In the Gospels, Jesus talks about how he saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning. But I've never found (or atleast don't remeber finding) anything aying that Satan was and angel cast from heaven. The Bible talks about Lucifer and many Christians belive that this was the name of Satan before he was sent from Heaven. But no where's does in mention in the Bible that Lucifer and Satan are the same people. Although there are passages where Lucifer is described and sounds as if he could be Satan it dosn't really say.

[FallOfFingolfin]

I, too, have that same question! In the Gospels, Jesus talks about how he saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning. But I've never found (or atleast don't remeber finding) anything aying that Satan was and angel cast from heaven. The Bible talks about Lucifer and many Christians belive that this was the name of Satan before he was sent from Heaven. But no where's does in mention in the Bible that Lucifer and Satan are the same people. Although there are passages where Lucifer is described and sounds as if he could be Satan it dosn't really say.

Yeah, I've found that most peoples' idea of Satan and his background comes from outside works--ie Milton's Paradise Lost , and NOT The Bible.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

You're right about that - a lot of the "red tights and tails" stuff comes from other sources. However, the main source for understanding about Lucifer's downfall comes from a passage in the Book of Ezekiel, chapter 28, verses 12-17. The chapter begins by addressing the "Prince of Tyre", and in the Old Testament "Prince" almost always means "man" (Tyre, of course, was one of the capitals of Phonecia, just northwest of Israel). There's a dire prophecy to this prince, but then the passage shifts dramatically and begins talking to the "King of Tyre". Here's the actual wording;

"Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, carnelian, topaz, and jasper, chrysolite, beryl, and onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and wrought in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. With an anointed guardian cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you.
Now, all this talk about being in Eden and walking with cherubs couldn't possibly be talking about an ordinary guy, so this passage has universally been seen to apply to the great spiritual being originally called Lucifer (literally "light-bearer", or more accurately "brilliant one"). The later term "Satan", which literally means "accuser" or "adversary" is another name, just as in Tolkien's mythology Melkor was renamed Morgoth by Feanor.

Was that what you were looking for?

[FallOfFingolfin]

You're right about that - a lot of the "red tights and tails" stuff comes from other sources. However, the main source for understanding about Lucifer's downfall comes from a passage in the Book of Ezekiel, chapter 28, verses 12-17. The chapter begins by addressing the "Prince of Tyre", and in the Old Testament "Prince" almost always means "man" (Tyre, of course, was one of the capitals of Phonecia, just northwest of Israel). There's a dire prophecy to this prince, but then the passage shifts dramatically and begins talking to the "King of Tyre". Here's the actual wording;

"Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, carnelian, topaz, and jasper, chrysolite, beryl, and onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and wrought in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. With an anointed guardian cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you.
Now, all this talk about being in Eden and walking with cherubs couldn't possibly be talking about an ordinary guy, so this passage has universally been seen to apply to the great spiritual being originally called Lucifer (literally "light-bearer", or more accurately "brilliant one"). The later term "Satan", which literally means "accuser" or "adversary" is another name, just as in Tolkien's mythology Melkor was renamed Morgoth by Feanor.

Was that what you were looking for?

I found that quote shortly after I posted the topic--I am aware of the fact that in Judaism it is considered to be referring to a mere man.

I do agree--it does strongly suggest that Lucifer is Satan is Lucifer.

Then Fëanor rose, and lifting up his hand before Manwë he cursed Melkor, naming him Morgoth, the Black Foe of the World; and by that name only was he known to the Eldar ever after.

Thanks.

[thelawtman]

Dantes Journey is where the visions of hell we see now comes from. It is not a fun book to read.

[onlymystory]

Actually I believe our views of hell come from a lot more than that. Otherwise I can't understand why so many people I know find it entertaining to be going to hell.

[Jay7]

I don't think burning sounds entertaining. :rolleyes:

[purplemonkeyhunter]

I think it's in the book of Isaiah (I think I spelled that one wrong...) somewhere, I can look it up and post it later. Maybe it's in Revelations too. Hmmm. I'm going to go find out now, I'm curious.

[Gibby]

I think this is it...

Isaiah 14:12-15
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!


13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%2014;&version=31;#fen-NIV-17942c)]

14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High." 15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.

Luke 10:18

18He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven..."

[purplemonkeyhunter]

I think this is it...

Isaiah 14:12-15
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!


13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%2014;&version=31;#fen-NIV-17942c)]

14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High." 15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.

Luke 10:18

18He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven..."

Yeah, thats it!

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Thanks, Gibby - I knew there was a passage in Isaiah as well, I just couldn't remember where.

[Lord Rhoop]

"Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, carnelian, topaz, and jasper, chrysolite, beryl, and onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and wrought in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. With an anointed guardian cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you.


Is that KJV or is it another type?

[Lord Rhoop]

It also calls Satan, "that old serpent" in Revelations 12v9 and so on. Which is refering back to the Edenic form that Satan took on. But I guess that doesn't have anything to do with the fact of Satan being a fallen angel.

[Warrior-Poet51088]

Yeah, I've found that most peoples' idea of Satan and his background comes from outside works--ie Milton's Paradise Lost , and NOT The Bible.

Dantes Journey is where the visions of hell we see now comes from. It is not a fun book to read.


I've read both of those, and when we were studying 'em, wwe cross-referenced 'em with the Bible, and found that, though both are very romantic & enjoyable reads (thelawtman, you have to read Il Paradiso/Paradise to get any "fun" out of Dante's Divine Comedy), neither is strictly accurate, according to the Bible's account.

Nonetheless, I do recommend Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost to anyone looking for an adventure of supernaturally epic proportions!

[Warrior-Poet51088]

It also calls Satan, "that old serpent" in Revelations 12v9 and so on. Which is refering back to the Edenic form that Satan took on. But I guess that doesn't have anything to do with the fact of Satan being a fallen angel.


*DOUBLE POST* :p


In my class's study of said literary works, our teacher pointed out that when he went to seminary, in his Ancient Hebrew class, the first thing his proffessor pointed out was that the passage in Genesis does not directly *say* that Satan was the snake in the garden. Now, I do believe Satan was that snake (because of the verse you mentioned, Lord Rhoop), but also consider the mythos of this "snake" story for the Israelites--they lived in the desert, so naturally, snakes would be a danger.

Just think about it, it's kinda cool to look at Genesis without our Christian presuppositions (i.e., look at it without the the idea that Satan is the snake firmly planted in your head), and think about the practicality of such a belief amongst the Israelites as they wandered the Wilderness...Picture them, sitting around a campfire, Moses recounting their history to them, and starting with "In the beginning..."

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Is that KJV or is it another type?That's RSV. I use http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/rsv.browse.html for easy search (though it didn't help me find that Isaiah passage!) That link has the whole Bible, so I really like it.

[NarniaForever]

Where is it said that Satan was once the chief of the angels, and that his pride and envy was his downfall? I read that somewhere like he was the cheif of angels and he wanted to be as powerful as god, and then god cast him down to the fiery gates of hell to be stan and didn't he have a differnt name before? like michael or something? i've always wondered and people always thought i was crazy.

[Jay7]

Hes old name was Lucifier, and yep your correct on that story ^^

[Hope96]

I read that somewhere like he was the cheif of angels and he wanted to be as powerful as god, and then god cast him down to the fiery gates of hell to be stan and didn't he have a differnt name before? like michael or something? i've always wondered and people always thought i was crazy.
Although, from what I understand myself, Hell was created for Satan and his followers. Hell didn't exist until God cast him out.

[Jay7]

Although, from what I understand myself, Hell was created for Satan and his followers. Hell didn't exist until God cast him out.
Correct i believe. Because God had created angels first, then once he decided to create humans, he decided humans who also dont ask for forgiveness of their sins will also go to hell, eventually lake of fire.