Disbelivers

[Celine_USA]

u kno my teen weekly said that cs lewis's friend jrr tolken said that the LWW was just a hodgepodge of images. HAHAHAHAHA! look at it now! in his face cuz LWW is WAY better than the hobbit.

[rosymole]

Hey Celine USA, nice to see you here, don't think I've given you full greet!
It's true that Lewis and JRR had different views on who's literary sty;e was better, JRR wasn't ken on aleggory whihc is why he didn't go crazy over CoN, and it's true that as a childrens seruies CoN works much better, but as a more adult orientated collection the LotR trilogy was just as good, but different good..they both have thier merits!

[inkspot]

Yes, welcome Celline. I gotta go with Rosy on this one. LOTR (and Hobbit) are fabulous works and appeal to adults more than CON. I think that Tolkien and Lewis were good friends, and so Tolkien felt free to comment negatively on his buddy's work. He wanted Lewis to tie everything up with complete explanations for each relationship and species, as Tolkien himself did with LOTR and the Silmarillion, etc. But who could even do that besides Tolkien!

[DeplorableWord]

u kno my teen weekly said that cs lewis's friend jrr tolken said that the LWW was just a hodgepodge of images. HAHAHAHAHA! look at it now! in his face cuz LWW is WAY better than the hobbit.

Yes, when J.R.R. Tolkein read C.S. Lewis' books, he said they were crap; but they were writing to "two different audiances" in a way- Lewis was writing to appeal more to the younger audiance mostly children, while Tolkein was writing to an older audiance- mostly old and young adults.

Yes, Tolkein was wrong about Lewis' books, but I don't think that CoN are better than Tolkein's books, which not only include The Hobbit, but also The Lord of the Rings, and others. I tend to put them on an equal level, because they are very different, and you can hardly compare them!

[Celine_USA]

i fully agree w/EVERYONE!!!! i love both of them but i remember my mom reading me LWW EVERY night and i only read the hobbit by myself once.
it wasn't that interesting for me but neither r the movies. everyone's opinions r different. :D glad u shared ur w/me!

[Rhyanidd]

because they are so differnt in their styles, and everthing, I dont think that either can be said to be better,

[thelawtman]

Tolkeins stuff is so boring that I actually took my books that I jsut bought and burned them so I could buy sometime better.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

You burned books so you could buy more? How would burning you had facilitate getting other ones?

[thelawtman]

becuase it gave me room on my bookcase instead of wasting room. i have also burned bibles too.

[Charn_Tim]

becuase it gave me room on my bookcase instead of wasting room. i have also burned bibles too.
Good job thelawtman. Your rejection of thought and logic is to be commended. Keep that Christian truth away from you so you can maintain your irrational beliefs.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

becuase it gave me room on my bookcase instead of wasting room. i have also burned bibles too.Ever consider donating them to a library?

(and to think that the Christian Church has taken heat for burning books...)

[inkspot]

Good job thelawtman. Your rejection of thought and logic is to be commended. Keep that Christian truth away from you so you can maintain your irrational beliefs.
LOL, Tim. I think thelawtman gets a lot of satisfaction from trying to shock people, and I for one want him to know that I am very shocked! Why, thelawtman, how could you? You know the type of people who burn books, don't you? Narrow-minded conservative fundamentalists. Surely you don't want to be lumped with them, do you? I didn't think so!

[Gibby]

LOL, Tim. I think thelawtman gets a lot of satisfaction from trying to shock people, and I for one want him to know that I am very shocked! Why, thelawtman, how could you? You know the type of people who burn books, don't you? Narrow-minded conservative fundamentalists. Surely you don't want to be lumped with them, do you? I didn't think so!

Wasn't there alot of book burning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning)in Nazi Germany and the communitst countries? hmm...

[Basilides]

I sincerely hope that the books never get their revenge

[Gibby]

I know one that will!

[thelawtman]

HaHa I love to see that you people are all offended that I burned a bible. I love seeing how you say I will go to hell and all that. Its quite ammusing that you are actually wasting ur time saying that to me since I disbelive in all that.
As cor Charn_Tim I am sorry that I can not conform to your cult and be brainwashed by a book that was written thousands of years and is used as A tool for comfort so people think they have meaning in their lives.

[polly&digory]

The nice thing about getting together and discussing each others thoughts is that they can share their opinion. Tolkein didn't agree but he was still encouraging.

[Basilides]

You're right. Sharing different opinions can be very refreshing.

[onlymystory]

I want to just shake someone who would burn books, no matter what book it is. That's despicable.

[Basilides]

Hm. What about a book that encouraged people to burn books?

[Green Knight]

Hm. What about a book that encouraged people to burn books?

You only burn books that are so far gone that it is cheaper to just by new versions.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

HaHa I love to see that you people are all offended that I burned a bible. I love seeing how you say I will go to hell and all that. Its quite ammusing that you are actually wasting ur time saying that to me since I disbelive in all that.
As cor Charn_Tim I am sorry that I can not conform to your cult and be brainwashed by a book that was written thousands of years and is used as A tool for comfort so people think they have meaning in their lives.Remember Lewis' point! People always get what they want - but they don't always like it.

[masterofmonks]

Just an observation about the real difference between Lord of the Rings (and associated books) and the Chronicles of Narnia. It comes down to this. J.R.R. Tolkien was writing a history so that he could give his artificial language a background to come from. He was not infact a writer by profession, he was infact a linguist. Where as C.S. Lewis simply started off by writing a story for his God-Daughter. Which is why Lord of the Rings can be boring at points, and is always dry. And by the way the language that J.R.R. Tolkien invented was Elvish, so when you see them speaking elvish in the movies, yes they are speaking a real language.

[Charn_Tim]

Which is why Lord of the Rings can be boring at points, and is always dry.
I disagree. This is simply a matter of opinion. I think he wrote outstanding books and they are not boring or dry-they are fantastic. They might be perceived as such to a generation used to soundbytes and video games, but that is your loss, not his.

[EveningStar]

I have a friend in Germany that is an enormous fan of both LWW and LOTR, and he put it rather succinctly:

LOTR is the mind of fantasy. LWW is the heart. They belong together and form a complete and perfect whole.

[DeplorableWord]

Good show Chakal!! ;)

[Charn_Tim]

And by the way the language that J.R.R. Tolkien invented was Elvish, so when you see them speaking elvish in the movies, yes they are speaking a real language.
This is true, and what's more, Tolkein actually invented 14 languages. For more info, see the book, The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-earth by Ruth S. Noel.

[masterofmonks]

My generation has very little to do with my opinion on LotR. Indeed I have spent much more time reading than playing video games, and usually while playing games I am still reading. As for the opinion, at times J.R.R. Tolkien is, a bit overly wordy. I loved the story, but where Tolkien built his world a grain of sand at a time, Lewis summoned his into existance from nothing.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

The really funny thing was that after the success of The Hobbit, the next thing Tolkien wanted to do was publish a comprehensive guide to the Elvish language - he really thought people would be interested! Fortunately, his friends and publishers talked him out of it, and urged him to get to work on a hobbit sequel. It started out as just that, too - the protagonist was named Bingo Baggins, and Aragorn was originally "Trotter", a loner hobbit who tramped about the wild wearing boots because the Dark Lord's minions had once gotten hold of him and tortured him by mutilating his feet. Odd stuff - I'm glad the story matured the way it did.

[CSLewisFan]

The really funny thing was that after the success of The Hobbit, the next thing Tolkien wanted to do was publish a comprehensive guide to the Elvish language - he really thought people would be interested! Fortunately, his friends and publishers talked him out of it, and urged him to get to work on a hobbit sequel. It started out as just that, too - the protagonist was named Bingo Baggins, and Aragorn was originally "Trotter", a loner hobbit who tramped about the wild wearing boots because the Dark Lord's minions had once gotten hold of him and tortured him by mutilating his feet. Odd stuff - I'm glad the story matured the way it did.

WOWser, that's crazy, I'm glad the story turned out the way it did as well :)

-Austin

[Charn_Tim]

The really funny thing was that after the success of The Hobbit, the next thing Tolkien wanted to do was publish a comprehensive guide to the Elvish language - he really thought people would be interested! Fortunately, his friends and publishers talked him out of it, and urged him to get to work on a hobbit sequel. It started out as just that, too - the protagonist was named Bingo Baggins, and Aragorn was originally "Trotter", a loner hobbit who tramped about the wild wearing boots because the Dark Lord's minions had once gotten hold of him and tortured him by mutilating his feet. Odd stuff - I'm glad the story matured the way it did.
haha, me too!

hmmm, I guess this has turned into more of a Tolkein discussion than a "disbelievers discussion." ;)

[will_moseley_fan_7]

i think burning books should be a crime. why not give them to the poor or underpriveledged. wouldn't that be better? Also, coming to the subject of burning books as a protest, CAN ANYONE BE ANY STUPIDER???? I mean, you pay 15 or so dollars just so you can burn it and as you do, the happy publishing company is printing more so you can buy the books and burn them. i mean, by burning books as a protest, you are actually helping the author you don't like.

okay.....

[thelawtman]

Hey Tolkien was a marvously writter and a very talented person I have lots of respect for him, I just dont like his books.

[Charn_Tim]

Hey Tolkien was a marvously writter and a very talented person I have lots of respect for him, I just dont like his books.
Oh okay, that's cool. That's a lot different than saying you "burn his books" :)

[mrstumnus99]

Yeah, Lord of the Rings and Narnia are so different that you really can't compare them. One's a whole world with a very extensive history while the other is connected to our world. I personally like them both. Lord of the Rings is my favorite but I still love Narnia.

[Nebu]

I pretty sure that if Lewis did add in a lot of information about Narnia's background it would loose a lot of what makes it special. How can he go into long details about where the Fauns came from or something if most of the main characters don't know themselves and are too busy doing important things to find out?

It would be nice, however, if we knew a bit more of the story itself. (Like how Jadis came to power in Narna, for example)

[underthefryingpan]

i prefer narnia to lotr. i didn't even finish reading lotr... but i couldn't put narnia down. ofcourse i read narnia several years before i attempted lotr.
i enjoyed the hobbit but didn't get through the next book. probably because i already knew what would happen so it felt like a waste of time.
*hides from the lotr fanatics*

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Oh, no reason to hide. I held off reading the Trilogy for years because I loved Narnia so much, but once I managed to get into it, I loved it as much as the Chronicles. It does get started slowly, though - I always advise new readers to have great patience. The story picks up once they leave Rivendell. But please give it a chance - don't think that just because you've seen the movie, you know The Lord of the Rings. There's a big difference, and you don't know it until you experience the books themselves. Lewis would want you to!

Oh, yes - there's a love story elegantly embedded toward the end, between Faramir and Eowyn (and, by the way, Faramir is not at all like the movie portrays him *grrrr*). There is another, the story of Aragorn and Arwen, but you have to go to the appendix to get it.

[DeplorableWord]

Yes, I read that story about Aragorn and Arwen and I loved it!!!. And I know, in TTW movie, they made Faramir really mean when he captures the Hobbits and Smeagol, but he was really so nice in the book!

[Charn_Tim]

Yeah, they make Faramir seem more cowardly, mean, and weak, whereas in the book he is noble, brave, and strong. I think they kind of did that to Boromir too. However, Peter Jackson did such a fantastic job overall with the whole thing, that these are hardly things to really get upset about...(not that I'm saying anyone is :)).

[purplemonkeyhunter]

[QUOTE=masterofmonks] Which is why Lord of the Rings can be boring at points, and is always dry. [QUOTE]

Not true!

As for Lewis vs. Tolkien, I think they are pretty hard to compare on another, especially individually, if you compared the whole series of Chronicles of Narnia to the whole series of Lord of the Rings (including Hobbit and Silmarillion), for the writing style they are very different. There are definetly a lot of similar themes in the two however, and they are both wondefull. I like Tolkien better because, for one, his writing style is more mature, and every single time I read any of his books I just find more stuff in them, more things to contemplate, I mean he was just so amazingly thorough with all of them. And so much of it just has such meaning, all this stuff on love and sacrifice and friendship and family and corruption and honor and courage and destiny and I'm going to stop now. I also like Tolkien because it is more of a challenge than Chronicles of Narnia to read for me, and I love how Tolkien describes things. I think Tolkien also does a great job of showing charecters journeys, you can really get into him. I mean the movies are good, but Tolkien just wrote on a whole diffrent level, his talent is amazing.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Lewis and all his stuff. I mean, a lot of the stuff I said applies to him too. I'm just more of a LOTR fan than anything else.

[Danny]

I like Tolkien better because, for one, his writing style is more mature, and every single time I read any of his books I just find more stuff in them, more things to contemplate, I mean he was just so amazingly thorough with all of them. And so much of it just has such meaning, all this stuff on love and sacrifice and friendship and family and corruption and honor and courage and destiny and I'm going to stop now. I also like Tolkien because it is more of a challenge than Chronicles of Narnia to read for me, and I love how Tolkien describes things. I think Tolkien also does a great job of showing charecters journeys, you can really get into him. I mean the movies are good, but Tolkien just wrote on a whole diffrent level, his talent is amazing.



I absolutely agree. I love "The Chronicles of Narnia", but it always seems like I'm observing Narnia as an outsider. With Tolkien you feel like you've actually stepped into Arda and everything feels present and alive. I think this is largely due to the gritty "realism" of Tolkien's work, not so much in "The Silmarillion", but definitely in "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings".
Everything is so rich and detailed that, despite pompous critics dismissing Tolkien's characters as "cardboard-cutout", you feel that these people could have actually existed beyond the confines of the text.
Tolkien, afterall, is the father of "High-fantasy" and the finest writer of the genre even now.

[*IOWW the Iasc*]

I personally like C.S. Lewis's books more than J.R.R. Tolkein. I love both, but C.S. Lewis leaves alot to the imagination and I like writing that does that. But Tolkein writes what happends and ends it there. I'm not saying his writing isn't imaginative, but C.S. Lewis leaves more for the reader. Which, like I said, I really like.

[devils_advocate_for_evil]

I enjoy both soooo much!