Hinduism

[theorangejello]

- so yea i wasn't sure where to put this, but since the reincarnation thread has opened up - i think most people have realized that I'm a hindu..and i know that a majority of people on here are Christian. I just felt that it would be nice on my part to share something about my religion and why I am a hindu.

I found this on facebook under this wonderful Hinduism group and I found this a very informative and touching story.

First of this is a true experience of a friend of Mr. Venkat Ramani (the original poster)

True experience of a friend

WHY I AM A HINDU-

Four years ago, I was flying from JFK NY Airport to SFO to attend a meeting at Monterey , CA An American girl was sitting on the right side, near window seat. It indeed was a long journey - it would take nearly seven hours.

I was surprised to see the young girl reading a Bible unusual of young Americans. After some time she smiled and we had few acquaintances talk.I told her that I am from India

Then suddenly the girl asked: 'What's your faith?' 'What?' I didn't understand the question.

'I mean, what's your religion? Are you a Christian? Or a Muslim?'

'No!' I replied, 'I am neither Christian nor Muslim'.
Apparently she appeared shocked to listen to that. 'Then who are you?' 'I am a Hindu', I said.

She looked at me as if she was seeing a caged animal. She could not understand what I was talking about.

A common man in Europe or US knows about Christianity and Islam, as they are the leading religions of the world today. But a Hindu, what?

I explained to her - I am born to a Hindu father and Hindu mother. Therefore, I am a Hindu by birth.

'Who is your prophet?' she asked.

'We don't have a prophet,' I replied.

'What's your Holy Book?'

'We don't have a single Holy Book, but we have hundreds and thousands of philosophical and sacred scriptures,' I replied.

'Oh, come on at least tell me who is your God?'

'What do you mean by that?'

'Like we have Jesus and Muslims have Allah - don't you have a God?'

I thought for a moment. Muslims and Christians believe one God (Male God) who created the world and takes an interest in the humans who inhabit it. Her mind is conditioned with that kind of belief.

According to her (or anybody who doesn't know about Hinduism), a religion needs to have one Prophet, one Holy book and one God. The mind is so conditioned and rigidly narrowed down to such a notion that anything else is not acceptable. I understood her perception and concept about faith. You can't compare Hinduism with any of the present leading religions where you have to believe in one concept of god.

I tried to explain to her: 'You can believe in one god and he can be a Hindu. You may believe in multiple deities and still you can be a Hindu. What's more - you may not believe in god at all still you can be a Hindu. An atheist can also be a Hindu.'

This sounded very crazy to her. She couldn't imagine a religion so unorganized, still surviving for thousands of years, even after onslaught from foreign forces.

'I don't understand but it seems very interesting. Are you religious?'
What can I tell to this American girl?

I said: 'I do not go to temple regularly. I do not make any regular rituals. I have learned some of the rituals in my younger days. I still enjoy doing it sometimes..'

'Enjoy? Are you not afraid of God?'

'God is a friend. No- I am not afraid of God. Nobody has made any compulsions on me to perform these rituals regularly.'

She thought for a while and then asked: 'Have you ever thought of converting to any other religion?

'Why should I? Even if I challenge some of the rituals and faith in Hinduism, nobody can convert me from Hinduism. Because, being a Hindu allows me to think independently and objectively, without conditioning. I remain as a Hindu never by force, but choice.' I told her that Hinduism is not a religion, but a set of beliefs and practices. It is not a religion like Christianity or Islam because it is not founded by any one person or does not have an organized controlling body like the Church or the Order, I added. There is no institution or authority..

'So, you don't believe in God?' she wanted everything in black and white.

'I didn't say that. I do not discard the divine reality. Our scripture, or Sruthis or Smrithis - Vedas and Upanishads or the Gita - say God might be there or he might not b there. But we pray to that supreme abstract authority (Para Brahma) that is the creator of this universe.'

'Why can't you believe in one personal God?'

'We have a concept - abstract - not a personal god. The concept or notion of a personal God, hiding behind the clouds of secrecy, telling us irrational stories through few men whom he sends as messengers, demanding us to worship him or punish us, does not make sense. I don't think that God is as silly as an autocratic emperor who wants others to respect him or fear him.' I told her that such notions are just fancies of less educated human imagination and fallacies, adding that generally ethnic religious practitioners in Hinduism believe in personal gods. The entry level Hinduism has over-whelming superstitions too. The philosophical side of Hinduism negates all superstitions

'Good that you agree God might exist. You told that you pray. What is your prayer then?'

'Loka Samastha Sukino Bhavantu. Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti,'

'Funny,' she laughed, 'What does it mean?'

'May all the beings in all the worlds be happy. Om Peace, Peace, Peace.'

'Hmm ..very interesting. I want to learn more about this religion. It is so democratic, broad-minded and free' she exclaimed.

'The fact is Hinduism is a religion of the individual, for the individual and by the individual with its roots in the Vedas and the Bhagavad-Gita. It is all about an individual approaching a personal God in an individual way according to his temperament and inner evolution - it is as simple as that.'

'How does anybody convert t Hinduism?'

'Nobody can convert you to Hinduism, because it is not a religion, but a set of beliefs and practices. Everything is acceptable in Hinduism because there is no single authority or organization either to accept it or to reject it or to oppose it on behalf of Hinduism.'

I told her - if you look for meaning in life, don't look for it in religions; don't go from one cult to another or from one guru to the next.

For a real seeker, I told her, the Bible itself gives guidelines when it says ' Kingdom of God is within you.' I reminded her of Christ's teaching about the love that we have for each other. That is where you can find the meaning of life.

Loving each and every creation of the God is absolute and real. 'Isavasyam idam sarvam' Isam (the God is present (inhabits) here everywhere - nothing exists separate from the God, because God is present everywhere. Respect every living being and non-living things as God. That's what Hinduism teaches you.

Hinduism is referred to as Sanathana Dharma, the eternal faith. It is based on the practice of Dharma, the code of life. The most important aspect of Hinduism is being truthful to oneself. Hinduism has no monopoly on ideas.- It is open to all. Hindus believe in one God (not a personal one) expressed in different forms. For them, God is timeless and formless entity.

Ancestors of today's Hindus believe in eternal truths and cosmic laws and these truths are opened to anyone who seeks them. But there is a section of Hindus who are either superstitious or turned fanatic to make this an organized religion like others. The British coin the word 'Hindu' and considered i as a religion.

I said: 'Religions have become an MLM (multi-level- marketing) industry that has been trying to expand the market share by conversion. The biggest business in today's world is Spirituality. Hinduism is no exception'

I am a Hindu primarily because it professes Non-violence - 'Ahimsa Paramo Dharma' - Non violence is the highest duty. I am a Hindu because it doesn't conditions my mind with any faith system.
A man/ woman who change 's his/her birth religion to another religion is a fake and does not value his/her morals, culture and values in life. Hinduism was the first religion originated. Be proud of your religion and be proud of who you are.
Om Namo shiva……………
RVR

Personally, I'm a hindu because of the non violence as well.
and as the last line says
be proud of your religion.
:D

[Copperfox]

Nothing new to me here, except some of the non-English words.

My God IS personal and DOES care for me as an individual. I'll take that over Samadhi anytime. And I care about YOU as an individual, knowing that you WILL exist eternally AS YOUR OWN SELF.

Gandhi's nonviolence was able to get someplace because of the amount of CHRISTIAN conscience that survived among the British. If it had been Nazis or Imperial Japanese against whom Gandhi's followers were protesting, the protesters would simply have been mowed down by thousands. And the REASON why it WASN'T Nazis or Imperial Japanese against whose rule Gandhi was protesting was because we icky intolerant Westerners (with the Chinese, Burmese, Filipinos, etc.) FOUGHT the Nazis and Imperial Japanese and BEAT THEM BY ARMED FORCE. No other earthly reason at all.

Also, as I've pointed out before (and it was true then, too), the Hindo-Buddhist position is misleading in its claim to be more tolerant by being less specific about deities. The only difference there is in the WAY of being specific. The Eastern religions hold the SPECIFIC position THAT you can't be specific about one identified God. In this, you are as dogmatic as anyone. Your position contradicts mine EVERY BIT as much as mine contradicts yours. You have your own horse in the race as surely as the rest of us have.

[Nikia]

Personally, I'm a hindu because of the non violence as well.
and as the last line says
be proud of your religion.
:D

But don't many major faiths preach non violence?

I don't mean that to pick on Hinduism, but many major religions claim non violence, though few (I'm speaking historically here) have followed it.

I am very interested in world religions, but I lack the knowledge in which to be comfortable discussing any (Judaism and Christianity are the exceptions). I know very few of Hinduisms beliefs, but I would like to know more if you wouldn't mind sharing.

[Near]

You don't need to be a certain religion in order to believe and hope for peace. It simply depends on the individual. However, obtaining peace is difficult. Sometimes a little force is needed.

[Darth Sparhawk]

Theorangejello, thank you for the post! It was very interesting and touching. I especially liked the part:
"' I reminded her of Christ's teaching about the love that we have for each other. That is where you can find the meaning of life."
That's what I believe as well, and it is one of the reasons I respect Hinduism, even if I find some rituals in it... weird.
But I think that it is not immune to violence, to bad deeds. Humans will always be able to justify their desire to do ill, they can use all religions, and can kill for whoever they want - be it God or man:(

[EveningStar]

I am rather heartsick to see the absolutely horrid violence going on between Pakistan and India. It's hard, I know, to separate the Hindu religion from the culture of India and human nature the same way it is to separate Christianity from the culture of Europe and human nature.

That being said, however, India represents a majority of the Hindu community and it exists here and now with two world wars, a cold war, and the information age to guide it. Still, blood is shed, hatred is expressed, trust is gone. That is something Hindus everywhere will have to try and explain away, and I don't envy you the task.

A lot of people may not catch on to what I am about to say (patience, Copperfox! ;) ) but if you stop thinking of religions as explanations of God and think of them as explanations of how people got to be the way they are and where they need to go next, the major difference in Hinduism and Christianity is a view of sin. In Hinduism people are born with a burden to overcome, a natural burden that is lifted through a form of spiritual evolution. That clearly states that it is natural--and has always been this way--for people to have this burden. Christianity starts out with innocent people who are in a sense very close to a state of Nirvana and who made wrongful choices that caused this to go away. We were and are incapable of repairing this damage. It was not the intent of God for us to start life in a state of damage. And we need God's grace to survive and eventually achieve this Christian Nirvana once again.

So there I bottom lined it. Christianity is a religion of a God that made us at the top and we fell to the bottom. Hinduism is a religion where the Godhead made us at the bottom and we rise to the top. I can't state the difference any more succinctly than that.

Of course I will save all of you the trouble of mentioning the idea that Adam and Eve in the garden actually brought sin into the world by having sex. I've heard this Hindu theory and I don't buy into it. Again, we have two fully functional genders capable of mating and we are expected to believe it degraded us to do the things you see rhinos doing on the Discovery Channel.

That is the other major problem. That the physical world is the source of pain and evil and that we as dual creatures of physical and spiritual must throw off the physical to reach the spiritual. In Christianity God made the world and said that it was good. There is nothing evil about being carbon based.

So being in a body tempts us. I suppose being out of a body could also tempt us if we had the power to smite people who angered us. The simple fact is that a righteousness based upon having all temptation hidden away is not righteousness. A toddler in a padded room is not going to break anything but that doesn't make it a well behaved child. If we can't be righteous in these bodies, I don't see how dying, or living a lifestyle of pretended death (asceticism) is going to make us better people.

Now that the differences are laid out, we can meaningfully discuss and debate.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

The biggest and clearest difference between Hinduism and the Faiths of Revelation (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) is the view of how God relates to the universe. As ToJ's post clearly states, Hinduism understands that the created order is God - that he is simply the Sum Of All That Is.

The Faiths of Revelation believe that God is different than His creation. He existed before it, He created it and sustains it, but it still utterly other from it. He in no way depends upon the created order to exist, and if all creation were to cease, He would be unchanged. It is true that He is present to all parts of His creation - which we call His immanence - but He is still separate from them.

Thus, though the author whom ToJ quotes lifts a passage from the Christian Gospels ("The Kingdom of God is within you" - more accurately translated "in your midst") he interprets it in a radically different way than Christianity does. The Christian understanding of that passage is worlds away from his interpretation.

It's also interesting to notice his condescension. Interpreting his questioners point of view, he thinks, "Her mind is conditioned with that kind of belief." What he does not even consider is that his mind is conditioned to a belief of its own, and he would probably have a more difficult time stepping out of his belief structure than she out of hers.

(just an admin note, ToJ - we try to discourage lengthy cut-and-paste posts from outside sources. I'm sure you understand our rationale - we've had "discussions" on other threads that degenerated into parties just cutting and pasting posts other people made on other sites. Quotes and excerpts are all right, but we prefer you to post your own words, even if they're distillations of what someone else says.)

[EveningStar]

Someone might speculate the God of the Christian/Judaic tradition could possibly be one of many gods and goddesses. Many nations throughout history had what amounted to a "national" god who was the best and usually the one that created the world, but they did not deny the existance of other gods, be they rivals, partners, or also-rans. In fact it was common for Romans to also worship the Egyptian Isis.

That being said, however, the Christian and Jewish religious concepts of the Godhead assign him a number of attributes that do not play out well if these attributes are the pooled resources of a group of gods. In short the group is limited by debate, consultation and coordination. They are only perfect while their teamwork is perfect, and that brings up a very important point.

Ganesha, the best known and most widely worshipped deity in all Hinduism, has an elephant's head. He did not start out that way. He was beheaded when Shiva wanted to go in to Parvati whilst she was in the bath and Ganesha stopped him. Of course it's comforting to know Shiva regretted murdering a fellow god and replaced the chap's head.

Jehovah would never have a wife, never cut a child's head off for saying "She's naked in the tub now". That's the sort of cool-thinking level-headed God we believe created the Heavens and the Earth.

And that is why Christians do not try to include Hinduism in their belief structure the way Hindus are willing to acknowledge Christianity. There is no room in the Judeo/Christianic Godhead for sex and impulsive violence, especially a situation where one led directly to the other.

And this is not meant to be nasty. Rather, it emphasizes the nature of the Christian Godhead as the number ONE. As in ONE truth, ONE life, ONE will, ONE plan, and ONE faith.

Without understanding this, one cannot understand Christianity.

[Darth Sparhawk]

Yes, a God can not be almighty when there is another God who limits his power. So that's why Christianity is monotheistic and Hinduism is polytheistic. :)
Yet I like the way some Hindus are respecting Christ and think - and this is my opinion - that there is some divine revelation in their religion, which they understand in a very different way. Although I personally remain monotheistic - to me polytheism makes for enthralling mythology, but - to me - it is not very logical, because it makes the gods to human-like, a bit like other fantastic beings.

[Laura Lee]

Thank you for the story theorangejello, I enjoyed it! :) The prayer is similar to what is often in my thoughts... question about the last bit though, where he says "A man/ woman who change 's his/her birth religion to another religion is a fake and does not value his/her morals, culture and values in life." ... what's a person to do if they're born into a religion that encourages intollerance? That to me seems like a good reason find one's own beliefs.

[theorangejello]

Yes, a God can not be almighty when there is another God who limits his power. So that's why Christianity is monotheistic and Hinduism is polytheistic. :)
Yet I like the way some Hindus are respecting Christ and think - and this is my opinion - that there is some divine revelation in their religion, which they understand in a very different way. Although I personally remain monotheistic - to me polytheism makes for enthralling mythology, but - to me - it is not very logical, because it makes the gods to human-like, a bit like other fantastic beings.

To potw = sorry! ill keep that in mind next time
To ES - It's also because Ganesh is his son and his wife threatened to leave him - but there are other mythological stories that are much nicer.
most of this is based on the fact that God is punishing the sinners (or the ones with Bad karma). If you follow in God's footsteps and follow your dharma (job) God loves you with all his/her heart. Yet if you are full of badness, and sin and only care about material desires.
He will punish you - until you learn what is right (which in a way is harsh)
To Darth Sparkhawk - We are not polytheistic thats a BIG MISTAKE to say we are.
To us God is in everything and everyone, yet our God known as Bharma has no shape, no form,no sex it is just this energy inside of everything. (of course don't take my full word on it -I'm only a 16 nearly 17 year old and i'm still learning about my own religion ;)
The Deities such as Ganesh, Shiva, Vishnu and etc are 'avatars' of this energy, but together they form this energy - that's the best i can explain it.
We prefer to be called I think the word is hedonistic.
It's also why we have female and male deities
the Female deities as one create the 'female' energy and the male deities create the 'male' energy.
And Hinduism is more like a basic way of living
not every hindu prays to idols. Some pray without idols.

- I think someone asked me to talk about other beliefs/rituals
I'm not sure what you want me to talk about.

[Darth Sparhawk]

theorangejello, I am sorry for the mistake. Thanks for correcting me. I honestly thought that you are polytheistic. Now I see that you are not. Is your idea of God similar to the... to say, the Force in Star Wars? If gods are avatars of the same energy, how can they fight and quarrel between each other? And - I hope that I am not breaking any rules here - what about the bad ones, the ones we translate as "demons" (rikshas, rakshas?)

[EveningStar]

It is my understanding...and I may be wrong...that Hinduism has a definition of "gods/goddesses" that overlaps our concept of angels and archangels. In other words eternal people who are very smart and have special powers. Many of the "deities" that are said to live in local places like healing springs are probably what would be considered in Christianity as "guardian angels". Perhaps the disciples of Christ that could cast out unclean spirits and heal by laying on of hands would have been considered gods had they not been mortal and subject to ageing.

[theorangejello]

theorangejello, I am sorry for the mistake. Thanks for correcting me. I honestly thought that you are polytheistic. Now I see that you are not. Is your idea of God similar to the... to say, the Force in Star Wars? If gods are avatars of the same energy, how can they fight and quarrel between each other? And - I hope that I am not breaking any rules here - what about the bad ones, the ones we translate as "demons" (rikshas, rakshas?)

To Es - yes in an extent you can say that the Gods such as Krishna and Ram - are guardian angels for us.
I see it as they are both avatars of Vishnu who is the presever of the Earth and he'll come down as often as he has to
they say he has ten forms - nine which he has already taken and the tenth is too come (either now or REALLY Into the technological future).

Rakshas/Demons - I feel as if they have been around as long as the Gods have.
Like there' no actual beginning to them
They reperesent the misery, sorrow and failure in life and that must have been how the ancient indians saw it.

I've never been a Starwars Fan - thus i'm not so sure.

In many of our mythological stories God has descended down to Earth to fight evil - and thus quarrels do come up.
In another aspect they have families - I think in a way to relate to our own human families ( like for instance Ganesh once said that the whole world was around his parents - similarly, Indian Kids are taught to respect and value their elders).
And like in every family you have quarrels - I suppose it's just way of stories teaching us life lessons.

[inkspot]

I am curious about Laura Lee's question on the previous page: the Hindu in th story says if you leave the faith you are born into, then you are a fake.

Clearly we are seeing this attitude reflected in terrible violence against Hindus who chose to follow Christ in Orissa state and elsewhere in India, ever since last August. There is something in Hinduism that greatly discourages people from leaving it, even to the point of violence against them.

But if you discover the religion your are born into isn't true, or you no longer agree with its precepts, what are you to do? Are your only choices to become a "fake" as the man in the story says or to stay in a faith you no longer love?

[shortangel]

here's a book recomendation of differnt religions and beliefs

world religions made easy

[Pardine]

here's a book recomendation of differnt religions and beliefs

world religions made easy

If they were really so easy, would there be all this war and strife? :)

[EveningStar]

They don't have the guts to sell a book titled "Religion For Dummies" ... :D

[MRW]

Oh, yes they do. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=religion+for+dummies&x=0&y=0) :P

[dawnpatrol]

What I don't understand is other religions showing a degree of respect for Jesus of Nazareth and some like muslims actually holding Him in very high regard as a great prophet yet still denying that He is Who He claimed to be:

1. The Son of the Living God
2. God Incarnate
3. The Only way to God the Father

If He is none of these then He's hardly worthy of respect. Dismissal as a lunatic maybe, even contempt as an outright deceiver but certainly not respected as some great moral teacher.

I believe Jesus is Who He claimed to be. Therefore I have to dismiss Mohammhed, Buddha, Joseph Smith et al. as false prophets/teachers or worse.

[MRW]

It's because, regardless of whether or not he was who he claimed to be, he had good things to say, so whether or not you believe Jesus was God, valuable things can still be learned from his teachings.

[dawnpatrol]

It's because, regardless of whether or not he was who he claimed to be, he had good things to say, so whether or not you believe Jesus was God, valuable things can still be learned from his teachings.

Jim Jones had good things to say as well.

[Copperfox]

Of course, Dawnpatrol is not at all suggesting that Jesus' words were empty--but rather, that anyone may borrow true words without living the life that backs them up. Jesus did not ONLY teach; He lived a life without sin, which qualified Him to pay off completely what a Hindu would call our karmic debt, leaving NO NEED for any reincarnational penalties.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Lewis pointed out several times that Christ didn't come to proclaim a new moral order. How could He have, when both He and His immediate herald, John the Baptist, proclaimed the message of repentance and forgiveness? Someone who doesn't know that he's sinned doesn't need a message of repentance; someone who is aware of his sin will respond to it. This message resonated not only with the Jewish people to whom it was first proclaimed, but to all the world at that time - including Hindu India, where St. Thomas the Apostle preached and founded a Christian church that endures to this day.

Lewis documented repeatedly that the bedrock moral teachings of all cultures are essentially the same - drawing several of his examples from the Baghavad Gita. But as dawnpatrol and CF point out, the value of Christ's work went well beyond His teaching. Furthermore, intermingled with His moral teachings were claims so outrageous that no reputable prophet would have even come close to making them. Nobody who truly apprehends what Christ said, particularly in the context He said it, would consider Him just a prophet.

[theorangejello]

I'm slightly confused, how did we get from Hinduism to Jesus...
can we try to stay on topic please?

[Benisse]

...In many of our mythological stories God has descended down to Earth to fight evil - and thus quarrels do come up...

Hi Orange Jello,
I have a question that come to mind after reading this thread:
According to Hinduism, where does evil come from?

[theorangejello]

Hmm , you know what I'll have to ask an expert about that ;)

[dawnpatrol]

And that is why Christians do not try to include Hinduism in their belief structure the way Hindus are willing to acknowledge Christianity.


That and the self-evident and irreducible principle of non-contradiction: If two claims contradict each other they can't both be true.

[theorangejello]

Um...so we agree to disagree.
Cause - I'm going to agree with my religion and you are going to agree with yours.

I think in a sense, Hinduism is not a religion it's our way of life and also we've been around for 100000 of years - Why didn't we convert when the British came in? We accepted Christ as a God, yet kept our own religious affiliations.

hmmm - right.....I still need to develop the above paragraph though.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Well, that all depends on what you mean by "religion". A careful examination of the principles of Buddhism would argue that it isn't as much a religion as a life philosophy - yet it is routinely referred to as one of the world's great "religions". So everything hinges on definition.

So how do you understand the term "religion"? What differentiates a "religion" from a "philosophy", or a "way of life"? What components are essential to make something a religion?

[Copperfox]

Narrowly defined, religion is largely about particular sacraments, observances, rituals, teachings, etc. Broadly defined, religion is virtually ANY belief people might hold about the ultimate meaning (if any) of the universe. It is in that broad sense that we can say (as I often say) that atheists have their own religion to uphold, so that they have their own horse in the race as much as the rest of us do and are NOT "neutral."

[dawnpatrol]

What differentiates Christianity from all other beliefs, religions, philosophies etc. is that it's actually not so much a religion as it is a relationship. You literally have fellowship with the Creator of the universe. Not only is Christ Jesus our Lord our God and our Savior, He is our Friend.

[EveningStar]

While I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent, posting a thread about why you don't belong to the vastly predominating religious viewpoint of the members is sure to invite uncomfortable questions and statements.

It's a bit akin to me going to Salt Lake City and standing outside the Tabernacle fence on a soapbox to shout out why I'm a United Methodist and would never consider being a Mormon.

Which, I might add, I have never tried....

[theorangejello]

oO....
that would be strange if you did.

I think we should just accept the fact that not everyone is going to follow Christianity or Hinduism or Islam or Judaism.
And I had frankly made this thread to just share my religion with others on here, as I've leant alot about Christianity from just browsng through the forums
Not so we could get into fights about what is religion.
:)

[Near]

What differentiates Christianity from all other beliefs, religions, philosophies etc. is that it's actually not so much a religion as it is a relationship. You literally have fellowship with the Creator of the universe. Not only is Christ Jesus our Lord our God and our Savior, He is our Friend.

I'm sure someone from another religion would say the same thing. Basically, you are saying Christianity is 'better' then all the other religions out there. why? Because it's a personal relationship?

I can have a personal relationship with one of my own created characters, but society would look at me like I was a nut case. Once again, why? Because everyone knows that character is made up and not real.

[theorangejello]

I'm sure someone from another religion would say the same thing. Basically, you are saying Christianity is 'better' then all the other religions out there. why? Because it's a personal relationship?

I can have a personal relationship with one of my own created characters, but society would look at me like I was a nut case. Once again, why? Because everyone knows that character is made up and not real.

I have to agree
I feel as if I have personal connection with Goddess Durga because she's my family Goddess.

[dawnpatrol]

I can have a personal relationship with one of my own created characters, but society would look at me like I was a nut case. Once again, why? Because everyone knows that character is made up and not real.


Exactly. And you would be a nut case for having a personal relationship with a made up and not real character.


For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. - 2 Peter 1:16

Basically, you are saying Christianity is 'better' then all the other religions out there.

Let me put it this way: Jesus isn't a better way, He is the ONLY way.

[Near]

I think you missed my basic point here, Dawn. I know my character is make believe. Because there is no evidence besides maybe something that I write that suggests that this character exists.

And as far as Jesus being the only way, once again you are stating in one form or another that your faith or religion is better then let's say, Buddhism or Judaism. After all, neither of those religions believe that Jesus is the savior of mankind.

[theorangejello]

I think you missed my basic point here, Dawn. I know my character is make believe. Because there is no evidence besides maybe something that I write that suggests that this character exists.

And as far as Jesus being the only way, once again you are stating in one form or another that your faith or religion is better then let's say, Buddhism or Judaism. After all, neither of those religions believe that Jesus is the savior of mankind.


Yup.Just saying that he is the ONLY WAY to salavation is just rubbing dirt on others faces.

I don't think Hinduism is the best religion out there.
I don't think any religion is teh best out there.
Mainly because they were 'created' by a bunch of men AND woman, who were unsure about their world and found comfert in teh fact some higher being/beings created this land for them.

Also - such statements can lead to bad arguments on here - so lets play nicely..
most of us non christians are already outnumbered on these board (socratic club)

[dawnpatrol]

Yup.Just saying that he is the ONLY WAY to salavation is just rubbing dirt on others faces.

Actually, Jesus Himself said He is the ONLY way. So once again we're back to either He was a lunatic, a liar or He is Lord. He leaves us no other choices.

I don't think Hinduism is the best religion out there.
I don't think any religion is teh best out there.


Instead of better or best how about true or false? It comes down to that.

[Solya]

I have to agree
I feel as if I have personal connection with Goddess Durga because she's my family Goddess.

That sounds so awesome! :) The personal connection with a deity through one's family... I like that idea, and it is something I think many Christians who've been 'brought up in the fold of Christianity' will identify with...

To me, the deities I have followed before I followed Christ again are no less real than He is. They have had their time and place in life, for me, and I respect and appreciate what I was taught by my experiences with them. Yet, it was Christ alone who outstretched His hand towards me and beckoned me to walk beside Him. That experience with Him outlived the experiences I had with patron deities of my past, causing me to turn back to the one religion I had sworn I would leave behind...

My point is this: the existence of other deities besides Christ the Lord is not something I question. Rather, my question lies in the following... what makes you enter a relationship with any deity, including the Christian God, and continue your work with said deity? That is the real question in any faith. What makes us follow, what makes us move mountains, that kind of thing... what about our chosen deity -- or the deity that chose us -- is so special that we are willing to give our lives for this?

[Near]

I'm not getting mean spirited here, just posing some questions.

So, what you are saying, Dawn is that Christianity is the true religion and all other religions are false? Maybe you are wrong and the person who is Buddhist could be right?

I could sit there and say that the Flying Spagetti Monster is the ONLY way.

[theorangejello]

I'm not getting mean spirited here, just posing some questions.

So, what you are saying, Dawn is that Christianity is the true religion and all other religions are false? Maybe you are wrong and the person who is Buddhist could be right?

I could sit there and say that the Flying Spagetti Monster is the ONLY way.

Haha the flying spagetthi monster.

The other diference between Hinduism and even Buddhaism with Christianity is the fact that we say the the way to reach salavation is just being faithful - and choosing the right path.

For Christians it's the fact that Jesus has already chosen the path for them.

[kingcaspian]

I have some questions for you, orangejello.

Question One: Just exactly how many gods does Hinduism have? Earlier you mentioned something about a goddess Diaga or something like that, and that being your god(I'm not for sure that's what you exactly said. I've just been quickly skimming over these posts, but I still get the main point of this thread) I heard on the radio last summer from a Christian who was from India or was from that area that the last count of Hindu gods was at least 13,000, or something like that. I do think it was in the ten thousands. How do Hindus worship that many gods? Doesn't it get to mind-boggling for you? I know it might not be that strange to you, but coming from a Christian who worships only one God, worshiping thousands is just confusing.

Question Two: I've learned that Hinduism doesn't promote violence. However, it also promotes the free-mindedness and free will(I'm paraphrasing it in someway because I have forgotten what exactly what it is.) If it promotes open-mindedness, don't you think that some person will get so angry at another person that diplomatic ways are useless and that person murders the person he's angry with? Hate and murder are one of the things that are involved in human nature, sadly, and even if Hinduism wants non-violence violence will still exist.

Question 3: The simplest question of all: How do Hindus believe the world was created?

[Copperfox]

According to the Upanishads, Brahman (more or less God) sort of cut himself apart, a portion of himself BECOMING the visible universe--which, however, is really "maya," meaning illusion.

[theorangejello]

I have some questions for you, orangejello.

Question One: Just exactly how many gods does Hinduism have? Earlier you mentioned something about a goddess Diaga or something like that, and that being your god(I'm not for sure that's what you exactly said. I've just been quickly skimming over these posts, but I still get the main point of this thread) I heard on the radio last summer from a Christian who was from India or was from that area that the last count of Hindu gods was at least 13,000, or something like that. I do think it was in the ten thousands. How do Hindus worship that many gods? Doesn't it get to mind-boggling for you? I know it might not be that strange to you, but coming from a Christian who worships only one God, worshiping thousands is just confusing.

Well Indian have ONLY ONE GOD - the God without a name a form or image.
everyone of the other Gods or DemiGods are just avatars of this God.
Goddess Durga represents female power (she's also known as Shakti).
Also the names of many Gods is different depending on the language spoken.
My Telgu friends would call Maa Lakshmi (the Goddess of wealth) something differently than I would.

For me personally these are the Gods I pray to for different things.

1. Durga - she was created when a Demon had asked to be only killed by a woman (believing this would give him immortality) - she is seen riding on a tiger and represent teh strong female power.

2. Krishna
He was the i Think seventh or eight avatar of Lord Vishnu (the presever)
He was teh eight son of a king and queen who were put in Prison soon after their marriage, because the Queens brother was a tyrant and he knew that her eight son would kill him - he was eventually killed by Krishna who had been born and had his father sneak out of jail to keep him with an another family.
He is immensely popular in Gujarat (and i'm not from there)
because he was apprently born there.
HE is also the the God mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita.

3. Ganesh
I think most Indians love Ganesh.
He's got the elephant head and even though he got it because of a violent act. what he stands for is different - he removes obstacles from your life and is the first God you pray to before you pray to any other God.

4. Ram - Lakshman and Sita

Ram - Is another avatar of Vishnu. He came down to Earth to defeat Ravan (our most famous demon) Ravan was a smart but malicious man who kidnapped Sita (Ram's wife) which led to his downfall by Ram.

Sita - Is Ram's wife - she was adopted by her father after he found her in teh fields in a hole. Sita means daughter of the Earth.
When she died she went back into the ground.

Lakshman - Was Ram's best friend and half brother *same father, different mother*
Even though Lakshman had a twin brother himself.
When Ram was exiled by his youngest mother (the third wife) Lakshmand and Sita refused to stay back and instead came with Ram.

The fesitival Diwali is used to celebrate many things including Lord Ram and his small families return to the Kingdom.

Saraswati - The Goddess of Learning/arts/creativeness - also the wife of Bhrama the creator
Paravati - Lord Shiva's wife

All of these Female Goddess i've mentioned are all representations of the female side of the God - known as Bhrama (spelling may not be correct)

For every Indian Family it is slightly different.

Question Two: I've learned that Hinduism doesn't promote violence. However, it also promotes the free-mindedness and free will(I'm paraphrasing it in someway because I have forgotten what exactly what it is.) If it promotes open-mindedness, don't you think that some person will get so angry at another person that diplomatic ways are useless and that person murders the person he's angry with? Hate and murder are one of the things that are involved in human nature, sadly, and even if Hinduism wants non-violence violence will still exist.


You can but then again we do have Karma and Dharma.

Karma - you sow what you reap.
I mean most people take this in the sense that if you murder someone in this life you'll suffer in your next.
Not true, if you murder someone then you can be tried and put to jail or worse be killed yourself.

Dharma
your duty
As a teenager/child it is my duty to listen to my parents/elders
and study.

So even thought there is free will, there is still a structure in which that free will is kept known as Dharma.

Question 3: The simplest question of all: How do Hindus believe the world was created?


Well we do have our own creation story - I don't remember it fully - if you want it's probably online somewhere and i can try to find it.


Hope this helped
:)

[Copperfox]

>> everyone of the other Gods or DemiGods are just avatars of this God.

That's what I was referring to: everything being just a hunk of Brahman, its individual separate existence being an illusion to be gotten rid of.

So really a Hindu creation story should be called a sort-of-creation-but-not-really-because-it's-an-illusion story. Which, for those who subscribe to the Earth resting on four elephants who in turn stand on a giant tortoise, relieves you of bothering to wonder what the tortoise is standing on.

[EveningStar]

Is taste in religion like taste in music? Where the person that likes rock should at least learn to appreciate a little classical, and the long-hair fan with his Beethoven and Brahms should at least try a bit of the Beatles? Broadening the horizons, hmm?

Or is religion like mathematics, where every student in the class has a different value of PI but there is really only one correct value?

And if you think math can't kill, try dividing the number of passengers on a steam liner by the number one lifeboat can hold. Get the wrong answer and the question isn't whether someone will die, but who. I would hope not to get some sort of moral relativist designing my ship, who thinks that his way of deciding how many lifeboats to include is as good as anyone else's.

Religion is not a matter of personal taste but personal judgment. The world got here one way, not several ways. So if there are several accounts of how the world got here, they can't all be right. Neither can several viewpoints on what whatever God that did it expects from mankind. You can choose. So can I. You might be wrong, I might be wrong, and both of us may be wrong but BOTH OF US CAN'T BE RIGHT.

Please don't reduce mankind's relationship with God to the level of choosing the decor of your living room or the type of car you'll drive. You don't get to choose a God that meets your needs or appeals to your taste.

The difference in the great monotheistic religions and other religions is that the monotheists don't think they get to choose a God to follow. They think there's only one out there. That's not arrogance or prejudice, nor is it cultural fascism or mob rule. It's a quest for the value of PI. Just like PI, God never terminates or repeats, and there is just one correct value.

[dawnpatrol]

So, what you are saying, Dawn is that Christianity is the true religion and all other religions are false? Maybe you are wrong and the person who is Buddhist could be right?


Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. More specifically Jesus Christ is the truth - the objective and absolute truth that what you or I believe has absolutely no bearing on.

[dawnpatrol]

Is taste in religion like taste in music? Where the person that likes rock should at least learn to appreciate a little classical, and the long-hair fan with his Beethoven and Brahms should at least try a bit of the Beatles? Broadening the horizons, hmm?

Or is religion like mathematics, where every student in the class has a different value of PI but there is really only one correct value?

And if you think math can't kill, try dividing the number of passengers on a steam liner by the number one lifeboat can hold. Get the wrong answer and the question isn't whether someone will die, but who. I would hope not to get some sort of moral relativist designing my ship, who thinks that his way of deciding how many lifeboats to include is as good as anyone else's.

Religion is not a matter of personal taste but personal judgment. The world got here one way, not several ways. So if there are several accounts of how the world got here, they can't all be right. Neither can several viewpoints on what whatever God that did it expects from mankind. You can choose. So can I. You might be wrong, I might be wrong, and both of us may be wrong but BOTH OF US CAN'T BE RIGHT.

Please don't reduce mankind's relationship with God to the level of choosing the decor of your living room or the type of car you'll drive. You don't get to choose a God that meets your needs or appeals to your taste.

The difference in the great monotheistic religions and other religions is that the monotheists don't think they get to choose a God to follow. They think there's only one out there. That's not arrogance or prejudice, nor is it cultural fascism or mob rule. It's a quest for the value of PI. Just like PI, God never terminates or repeats, and there is just one correct value.



Once again, well said Evening Star.

[Near]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. More specifically Jesus Christ is the truth - the objective and absolute truth that what you or I believe has absolutely no bearing on.

All you keep saying is that Jesus is the truth? How is he the truth? Is he the answer to everything? I don't think so. I can't write Jesus down on a math problem and expect to get it right.

Sitting there and saying that Jesus is absolute truth means that you have given up on finding truth to the mysteries of the universe, simply saying that it's either Jesus' or gods' will.

I on the other hand, because I don't believe in Jesus or god, I look for actual answers the problems that humanity asks everyday.

[inkspot]

All you keep saying is that Jesus is the truth? How is he the truth? Is he the answer to everything? I don't think so. I can't write Jesus down on a math problem and expect to get it right.

Sitting there and saying that Jesus is absolute truth means that you have given up on finding truth to the mysteries of the universe, simply saying that it's either Jesus' or gods' will.

I on the other hand, because I don't believe in Jesus or god, I look for actual answers the problems that humanity asks everyday.
That's so cute, Near, how you assume that believers in Christ don't look for answers because Jesus is the answer. But that sort of discounts the way believers in Christ have been providing answers for the hopeless and hurting a couple thousand years. Hospitals, schools, soup kitchens, emergency aid, the list goes on ... These are not people who are sitting around doing nothing while the world goes to hell in a handbasket. They are actively promoting the cause of Christ and in so doing, bringing people to a regenerated way of living that makes life worthwhile.

Not to hijack the Hinduism thread, but one sort of drawback of eastern religion, if you will, is that it is quite passive in the face of adversity. In part, the idea that you deserve what you're getting because of past-life karma, contributes to this passivity. One reason the Dalit (untouchable) people of India have been encouraged by their leaders to abandon Hinduism is that the religion teaches them to patiently bear their mistreatment as payment for bad karma rather than standing up and seizing human dignity and opportunities.

In this, Christianity has everything going for it ... charity, mercy, etc.

[EveningStar]

"Jesus is the answer" is a misnomer. Jesus HAS the answer.

That being said, God made man a creature of curiosity and ambition. It would strangle and decay the human race to hand us the answer to all our questions, because for us the journey to the truth is half the excitement of learning something new.

[Pardine]

All you keep saying is that Jesus is the truth? How is he the truth? Is he the answer to everything? I don't think so. I can't write Jesus down on a math problem and expect to get it right.

Sitting there and saying that Jesus is absolute truth means that you have given up on finding truth to the mysteries of the universe, simply saying that it's either Jesus' or gods' will.

I on the other hand, because I don't believe in Jesus or god, I look for actual answers the problems that humanity asks everyday.

Also not to hijack.. But how long have you been an atheist, Near? What is your intention here? What are you trying to do? Take some advice from a longtime agnostic/atheist/seeker (depending on the way the wind blows, it seems) , there are too many angry atheists in this world, and not enough people that want to be kind in this world.

It goes back to the whole "two wolves" story.. a Native American proverb.. where the chief tells the growing man:

"There are two wolves at struggle in my heart. One is cold, calculated, evil, and ruthless. The other is caring, compassionate, loving, fair, and friendly."

"Which one will win?"

"The one I feed."

Feed the right wolf, Near.

[EveningStar]

Jarrod is right. Is it so urgent to convince someone that there is no God before they die? What are you afraid will happen to them if they die while they still have religious convictions?

[dawnpatrol]

Misery loves company?

[TheShadowlands]

All I know about Hinduism is that there is Bhrama, Shiva, and Vishnu. There are no formal teachings except what is found in the Bhaghad Gita. Other than that, it seems to teach about reaching an Ultimate reality. I guess that's like Nirvana in Buddhism? That's all I know.

TheShadowlands

[theorangejello]

Yea...hinduism is basically a way of life
it has rules and regulations that tell us how to live.
(Kharma and Dharma).

And Siddartha or Buddha was a hindu prince, so many of the ideologies are closely rooted.

[Truman]

Many of the themes in the show "Lost" are based on Hinduism.

[Darth Sparhawk]

Theorangejello, recently I studied about Mahatma Gandhi at University. What is your opinion about him? I was very impressed by his views about politics and religion.:o

[Sir Benjamin the Lion]

The girl is very rare to not know what Hinduism is. In World history, and in the Culture, you learn of Hinduism because India and Hinduism is completely and wholely together.

[MRW]

Many of the themes in the show "Lost" are based on Hinduism.

Really? That's interesting. As a pretty avid Lostie, I'm curious: can you expound on that? I know that the initiative that brought Ben to the Island was called DHARMA, and the show deals heavily with destiny and dualism. Perhaps I just don't know enough about Hinduism to spot it.

[Truman]

Yep, "Dharma" is a big one... But there are various other things like the whole concept of time being a cycle. Trying to "change one's fate" correlates to the hindu "Wheel of Samsara" which is a metaphor for being stuck in a certain position in life and you can only get off the wheel by acheiving "Moksha." Sort of like how the wheel was "off balance" when the "wrong person" (Ben) turned it instead of Locke.

The total of "the numbers" is 108, which happens to be the number of beads on the Hindu prayer beads.

Richard Alpert and a few others talk about the "path of enlightenment," and there's a book he reads called Be Here Now which elaborates on that.

Desmond constantly says, "See ya innanotha life, brotha!" -- reincarnation.

...But apparently the writers are incorporating things like Christianity now (as you can see in the episode shown tonight). :rolleyes:

[theorangejello]

Theorangejello, recently I studied about Mahatma Gandhi at University. What is your opinion about him? I was very impressed by his views about politics and religion.:o


My view
well i honor him of course

but before i carry on i want you guyst to know that we do have other independence heros who are close to our heart as well. I mean 'westerners' seem to make a bigger deal about Gandhini than we do, like a lot bigger.
Yes, he was a peaceful man who was fighting for our rights agasint the british.
but then again so were many other people (they just weren't that peaceful)

Right back to what i think
I grew up knowing more about Gandhi than the other guys. My parents never really taught me about him, I just picked up about him from family and friends and of course i went to school in england were they taught about him. I sometimes wonder how awesome it would have been if my own grandma or grandpa had met him.

If you are intersted in Gandhi
i would watch these two movies

one is a funny romantic movie that takes the idea of GAndhini's non violence

its called Lage RAho Munna bhai

and the other is Gandhi my father (it's from his son's point of view)
of course you can also see Gandhi the ben kingsley movie.


and yea
many indians are hindus.
but, we do have few christians (esp in the south)
and a few jews
and parsi's
and even muslims
and sikhs
and jains

so yea

[MRW]

Thank you, Truman. Those are interesting points that I hadn't picked up on. I did notice that quite a few characters are named after philosophers, and that they were setting Locke up to be a messianic figure, but the numbers and Desmond's catchphrase went way over my head. Now, I'm curious to know what JJ Abrams' personal beliefs are.

[theorangejello]

The girl is very rare to not know what Hinduism is. In World history, and in the Culture, you learn of Hinduism because India and Hinduism is completely and wholely together.

huh, what girl..
yea like i said before

majority of indians are hindus
BUT
we have to remember we also have

Jains
Sikhs
Christians
Muslims
Parsi's
and etc in India as well.
:D

[Darth Sparhawk]

Yeah, and Buddhism also comes from India... theorangejello, thank you for your kind answers about Gandhi. I was really impressed of him, because he was so peaceful and tolerant... he seems such a good person to me.
Thank you again...