Swearing

[PuzzleGlum]

I don't curse, but I certainly live around people who do. A lot. When I ask them why they do it, the response is usually along the lines of

"Oh, everyone curses. They curse so much, that the word has actually lost its meaning. So it's no longer a curse, so it's okay to say."

Now, I don't agree with this, but I'm not sure why? Am I just stubborn? Does cursing and swearing lose its meaning, and cease to be a taboo when used in excess?

What counts as a curse? Am I swearing everytime i say "Darn it!" or "Oh my gosh"?

[dayhawk68]

nah cursing usually has a sexual meaning or so vulgar or hate driven meaning that it becomes terrible to say.

I cuss, but its usually because I mean those vulgar things, especially when Im mad. Sure Im not supposed to do it, but when I need a point across many a colorful word will pop in my head and out my mouth. lol

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Well, there are a couple levels here. One is a curse proper, where a person invokes some divine penalty on someone else, such as "God d**n him!" This is a form of taking the Lord's name in vain (though not the primary meaning of the 2nd Commandment). Other forms of coarse language may not invoke divine penalties, but are nevertheless foul language and prohibited in Scripture. These are more violations of courtesy, and therefore charity, but they are violations nonetheless.

Regarding the "words lose their meaning" argument - we may become numb to the meaning of words, but they don't lose their meaning. Scripture also warns us that we'll be held responsible for every casual word we utter. People may offer that argument, but they don't really mean it, and they prove that by controlling their language in certain situations (e.g. a wedding, or maybe a graduation reception). Truly harmless words are uttered without a second thought; words that are coarse, offensive, or embarrassing are shut off under certain circumstances.

[Copperfox]

The reason why the term "swearing" is used for an area of speech that is now so largely sex-oriented, is because of the way it was in the 19th century.

You will have heard phrases like "May God strike me dead if I don't keep this promise." Expressions like this were prevalent in the 19th century as that era's "bad language," when used frivolously for mere emphasis. A man might say, for instance, "God smite me if that isn't the fastest horse I ever saw run on this track!" In the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta "H.M.S. Pinafore," Captain Corcoran gets reproached when he says, in substance, "May I be accursed if it is not a scandalous thing for a crewman to want to marry my daughter!"

With time, a shift came from saying, "May I be accursed," to more frequently saying, "May YOU be accursed!" And where one area of "boldness" opened up, another area (the sexual) was bound to follow. This led to today's colloquialisms, in which a term for bodily waste is now routinely used to mean almost ANY object or substance, and even to mean many abstract things.

I myself, like Captain Corcoran, can truthfully say that I "hardly ever" use rough language. But the fact is that I have known young men who had simply been raised with it all their lives, and literally DIDN'T KNOW any other way to talk. Most of the time, they really didn't mean any malice by their sewer-speech. And it is very easy for an entirely "clean" speech to be hateful and horrid--as if I were to say to someone, "If stupidity were electricity, you could light up the Western Hemisphere for the next fifty years!"

[~Lava~]

Unfortunately, I have fallen into the habit of using swear words. I really am trying to stop again; it is a nasty habit. In general, I don't swear anymore, but if I get angry, tired, or worked up about something (or some combination of the three) one might mistake me for a sailor. Like I said, it is something I am trying to work on.

I agree that the whole "they lose their meaning" argument is kind of dumb. They lose their shock and some of their forcefulness, yes, but not their meaning. They will always have the meaning that their connotation in today's society is (note: I say connotation for a reason because a good many of the swear words we have are used in a way that was not their original intent; some used to mean something as harmless as "donkey" or "a bundle of wood").

[EveningStar]

Swearing is strong language for weak people.

Chances are, if you could wave your hand at offending people and they would vanish in a puff of smoke, you'd never ever want to curse. People curse as a substitute for being able to strangle the blighter.

There is nothing at all that you can say using profanity that you can't say without it. You can say "I hope you die and spend eternity in hades." Any function of the body can be described, as can any habit, method, or desire, without reference to profanity. That's why I don't consider profanity a matter of freedom of speech. I support freedom of speech, but not freedom of mode. As long as there is at least one approved way to express your opinion, your freedom of speech is preserved. There is no need for a "right" to express a political view in terms of human excrement or mating behaviour.

[Driad54]

Now, I don't agree with this, but I'm not sure why? Am I just stubborn?

Just because you believe in something worthwhile, doesn't make you wrong. If you want to believe in something, then believe in it. [Thats Secondhand Lions for ya]

I'll admit, I curse, when I'm with the guys.
There are places where if you curse, it shows you have no character:
- Out in public.
- In front of women.
- In times of reverance.

Of course, now it seems even women do a lot of cursing. It always shocks me, though I don't know why considering our society.

It's gruff language. You can mean harm by it, or it can be a sign of closeness between you and a friend.

My friend and I, we consider ourselves brothers (were not, but we are) and we just go at eachother. We mean well, and it's something to laugh over. But like my point above, theres a time and a place.

Consistently cursing is unacceptable.

[inkspot]

I don't think there's a time and place for bad language. It's like an assault on the ears. I hate that it's so prevalent in movies! Sometimes I don't even go see a movie I would be interested in seeing because I know the language will be bad. I love seeing these films later on an airplane, where they edit the language! One such was Ghost Town which I just saw on a flight -- but only in the last 5 minutes the plane was descending and they turned the film off! I am dying to know the ending, but I could tell they edited a lot of language out of it, so I don't know if I will ever rent the DVD...

That said, I find almost any really negative language to be oppressive. The other day at Renaissance Fair, a man was walking behind me talking on his cell phone, and he was chewing somebody out, up one side and down the other. He was swearing a teeny bit, but mostly just being so nasty and mean! It started making me nervous and scared -- I finally stepped out of the way and let him pass and walk on ahead where I wouldn't have to hear it. :(

[Bramblefox]

Once my mom and I went to buy a bunch of fruit (peaches and plums, mostly) from a county where Mom grew up, and for lunch we went to a tavern/resturant for lunch. THe whole time we ate, there were three guys sitting a few feet away talking very loudly and offensively. Every other word was the f-word and was just awful. I considered letting out a blood-curdling scream when they swore, just to startle them out of it, but I couldn't get the courage up. Meh.

Personally, I think that any curse-word can be replaced with completely harmless and inoffensive words. For example, I know a family whose dad says 'oh sugar' or 'oh noodle' whenever he's mad (and I've invented 'son of a sugar cube')...you get the point. And the best part is, little phrases like that make me laugh just because of the ridiculousness of them. So if I'm mad and say something like 'oh sugar' I start laughing and it kind of nullifies the anger. :p

[Doffen]

To me, curse words is not of any harm. I don't feel anything specific when someone curse, though I'm carefull not using them myself. Because there are people who doesn't like to hear people curse. Cursing is for people with a big mouth but no inner courage. There are certainly ways to express yourself way more powerful and unique then with a curse word. The plus side with not using curse words is also that people starts respecting you for it. You seem more intellectual.

The problem I have is that when something hurts (Like when I bump a toe into a wall or something) I can suddenly scream out a curse word even if I don't want to. It comes automaticly. That's one thing I have to work with.

[Mrs Gil-Galad Took]

I hate it. I'm raised by people who cursed a lot. My mom and dad could have won the national contest of cursing. It has caused a lot of trouble in my youth. I do admit I curse sometimes when I'm angry but I replace my words more often in something else. Instead of d**n I say Hallelujah! When something happens I look for other words.

[doctor fortunati]

There are places where if you curse, it shows you have no character:
- Out in public.
- In front of women.
- In times of reverence.

Of course, now it seems even women do a lot of cursing. It always shocks me, though I don't know why considering our society.



The idea that cursing in front of a woman demonstrates a lack of character on one's part intrigues me. Why in front of women? Do you think they're going to faint or something? And, also, why the 'even' in '...even women do a lot of cursing'? It suggests that men are expected to, while women aren't. Why is that? And isn't that something of a double standard? We're all human; surely a woman can be just as prone to bad language as a man?

On a personal level... well, I do swear, yes. It isn't something I'm hugely proud of, and I am trying not to (not that I think WHB has noticed any difference). I don't swear in church, and so now I'm trying to train myself to remember that God is everywhere, and not confined to a building. That makes it easier to stop :)

[Jack of Blades]

The idea that cursing in front of a woman demonstrates a lack of character on one's part intrigues me. Why in front of women? Do you think they're going to faint or something? And, also, why the 'even' in '...even women do a lot of cursing'? It suggests that men are expected to, while women aren't. Why is that? And isn't that something of a double standard? We're all human; surely a woman can be just as prone to bad language as a man?

Because it's common courtesy. Why do people shake hands when they meet? It's not like you can't go without it, it's just courtesy. And on a general basis, more women are against swearing than men.

I do curse, but not in excess. I can't stand people who swear left and right with no particular reason, I avoid people in my neighborhood for that reason.

But when I smash my hand in a door, or drop something on my foot, something about "Fiddlesticks!" just doesn't feel right. I honestly don't know what else to say. I realize I could "say nothing", but I don't feel like it's that big of a deal.

I try my best not to involve God's name whenever I do, but I slip up.
I don't swear in front of elders or women, and especially children.


I swear when I'm angry, it's easier than breaking something that I may need.

[Protagonist]

I have a moral code of a donkey when it comes to cursing. I find myself being a hypocrite in a lot of cases, so I've end up not caring about it all together. ( I find the words "Poop" and "Feces" more repulsive / discomforting then the S word. )

[Truman]

Let me just say, I've had a lovely time reading all these thoughtful posts. :) Personally, whenever I hear a curse word, it's not just a sign of "no character" as Driad54 stated, it's also displays the person's lack of vocabulary.

Just say to a person, "Saying such things only shows your limitation to four-letter words to convey your emotions. I find that disturbing, and foolish."

Every time I say that I usually get a "whatever" or a "*** off." :rolleyes: But at least I showed my feelings on their behavior.

Occasionally I use bad language. When used in anger, it's unintelligent anger that shows the limits to the person's knowledge of vocabulary, just as that sign is shown in ordinary, daily language by some people. Sometimes I don't say anything at all when I hear language like that; I just sulk quietly. After all, what can I do?

That's my answer: swearing is a sign of a person's idiocy concerning the English language. There are so many other, much more effective words that can convey the same message... like "puerile." ;)

[Driad54]

The idea that cursing in front of a woman demonstrates a lack of character on one's part intrigues me. Why in front of women? Do you think they're going to faint or something? And, also, why the 'even' in '...even women do a lot of cursing'? It suggests that men are expected to, while women aren't. Why is that? And isn't that something of a double standard? We're all human; surely a woman can be just as prone to bad language as a man?

Don't be trying to pick a fight. Like the quote says below this, it's common courtesy. Ever hear of Chivalry? Well it was a code of honor for men. Women are supposed to be respected and kept from all distainful acts in society.

And no it doesn't suggest men are supposed to curse. You overread it by a mile. I was stating that men are usually more coarse than women. The fact that I see women curse on a standard that almost equals that of a man astounds me, shows degradation of values once held high.



Let me take a crack at guessing: you support women in the military. Just from your response to my two cents, thats what I draw. Such lib crud.. but this isn't the place to discuss that..

Because it's common courtesy. Why do people shake hands when they meet? It's not like you can't go without it, it's just courtesy. And on a general basis, more women are against swearing than men.
Thank you JoB

[theorangejello]

Once my mom and I went to buy a bunch of fruit (peaches and plums, mostly) from a county where Mom grew up, and for lunch we went to a tavern/resturant for lunch. THe whole time we ate, there were three guys sitting a few feet away talking very loudly and offensively. Every other word was the f-word and was just awful. I considered letting out a blood-curdling scream when they swore, just to startle them out of it, but I couldn't get the courage up. Meh.

Personally, I think that any curse-word can be replaced with completely harmless and inoffensive words. For example, I know a family whose dad says 'oh sugar' or 'oh noodle' whenever he's mad (and I've invented 'son of a sugar cube')...you get the point. And the best part is, little phrases like that make me laugh just because of the ridiculousness of them. So if I'm mad and say something like 'oh sugar' I start laughing and it kind of nullifies the anger. :p

i can't stand it when people curse too, not that i haven't myself
i quoted this because it reminds of me of how
at times my current english teacher will

Sugar, honey ice and tea which is basically - a curseword, but it's used in such a way, it's kind of hard to realize it is, when she's speaking.

Also my dad forbids anyone to curse at home, including mom.
So if we end up going of F that.
It's usually trouble with the pops.

[MRW]

I swear a lot, but I try to keep it to a minimum if I'm around people I know it will offend. I personally don't have any issues with it, but not being offensive is a matter of common courtesy.

Other forms of coarse language may not invoke divine penalties, but are nevertheless foul language and prohibited in Scripture.
Where? I'm genuinely curious. I know swearing is generally frowned upon by Christianity, but no one has ever been able to explain why, beyond the commandment about taking God's name in vain, but most swearing doesn't do that. That's something that has always confused me.

[Dernhelm]

The idea that cursing in front of a woman demonstrates a lack of character on one's part intrigues me. Why in front of women? Do you think they're going to faint or something? And, also, why the 'even' in '...even women do a lot of cursing'? It suggests that men are expected to, while women aren't. Why is that? And isn't that something of a double standard? We're all human; surely a woman can be just as prone to bad language as a man?

Don't be trying to pick a fight. Like the quote says below this, it's common courtesy. Ever hear of Chivalry? Well it was a code of honor for men. Women are supposed to be respected and kept from all distainful acts in society.

And no it doesn't suggest men are supposed to curse. You overread it by a mile. I was stating that men are usually more coarse than women. The fact that I see women curse on a standard that almost equals that of a man astounds me, shows degradation of values once held high.



Let me take a crack at guessing: you support women in the military. Just from your response to my two cents, thats what I draw. Such lib crud.. but this isn't the place to discuss that..

Just a hint--whatever their motives, I think it'd be best not to assume that people are trying to pick a fight--it's likely to encourage one to start. ;)

Now, I am anti-feminist, but here are my thoughts on this: if one curses in front of a woman, that does indeed show a certain lack of ...something. But if you curse when you're with guys but not when a lady is present I guess you don't think cursing is wrong--just 'rough.' I believe that it is flat out wrong, and once that viewpoint is taken, it seems to me utter hypocrisy to change depending on the company one is in. Same with the chivalry issue--if you want to behave badly except when ladies are present, well, I think that's disgraceful. If you want to behave with excellent manners no matter the company you're in, but add some frills when ladies are present--that's great. :)

As for the right and wrong of cursing--I believe that it is wrong to use the name of God without meaning anything by it. It is wrong to invoke God's judgment frivolously--'d*mn' etc. Substitutes (in my opinion) are no better. 'Gosh,' 'golly,' 'gee,' 'my goodness' and many others are usually considered innocuous, but they are derived directly from 'God' or 'My ___', and though it's the meaning behind it that counts, not the derivation, I still refrain from using those and others like them. Beyond all that, it seems to me that though using God's name in vain is obviously the worst, God gave us reasoning minds and words to express our thoughts. I think using words in a meaningless fashion is an affront to that. Therefore, no matter how pure the intent behind an exclamation of anger or surprise, I think it highly undesirable. I admit I occasionally come out with 'phooey,' and in the past I've used 'goodness.' I try not too.

I think there was something else I was going to say, but I can barely keep my eyes open. It'll have to wait. :o

[Truman]

Where? I'm genuinely curious. I know swearing is generally frowned upon by Christianity, but no one has ever been able to explain why, beyond the commandment about taking God's name in vain, but most swearing doesn't do that. That's something that has always confused me.
Well, Jesus said,
"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."

--Matthew 12:36
My sister and I always mention "Every idle word" to each other whenever we say something stupid or unnecessary. To curse is to speak idly; condemnation is the implied judgement for swearing in this scripture. Not that you're necessarily hell-bound if you say "d**n," but that you will nevertheless be judged for speaking idly.

Every idle word... :rolleyes:

[The Spanish Inquisition]

I do, but only when:
1. I'm really, really angry.
2. When I'm singing along to something that has bad words.
3. When there are no other words to describe what I'm talking about.

But never in front of my kid sister. And I restrain myself in front of my 13-year-old brother, most of the time.

The only time I do it out loud, really, is with friends my age who don't care one way or the other..

[Frodosgurl]

I myself say "darn it" quite frequently...that and "crud"

But somewhat of my family (my parents only do it once in a blue moon so not frequent) curses. I never have...

From what I've learned...now I doubt everyone will agree... Gosh, Golly, and Gee are using the Lord's name in vain (look it up in a dictionary).

[gair]

zounds too

people like to get round prohibitions on swearing, look at eff.

[Shadow Hawk]

People can swear if they wish, however it does not make them look any "cooler", "better", or "tougher" than the person who doesn't. All it means is the person who doesn't has a larger vocabulary. ;):p

[inkspot]

The problem I have is that when something hurts (Like when I bump a toe into a wall or something) I can suddenly scream out a curse word even if I don't want to. It comes automaticly. That's one thing I have to work with.
I also struggle with this in moments of extreme emotion.
Once my mom and I went to buy a bunch of fruit (peaches and plums, mostly) from a county where Mom grew up, and for lunch we went to a tavern/resturant for lunch. THe whole time we ate, there were three guys sitting a few feet away talking very loudly and offensively. Every other word was the f-word and was just awful. I considered letting out a blood-curdling scream when they swore, just to startle them out of it, but I couldn't get the courage up. Meh.

Once in a while my husband will ask fellows to tone it down if we are forced to be in proximity with cussers. He usually just says, "Guys, do you mind watching your language? My wife doesn't need to hear that ..." or something. So far no one has punched him in the nose! I appreciate it so much, because I do find that language so ugly.
Personally, I think that any curse-word can be replaced with completely harmless and inoffensive words.
I don't know ... I agree with Dernie on this one: anything you reflexively spout as a curse is still a curse. I think the better route is to train yourself not to reflexively blurt out anything in fear or anger, except maybe a prayer. But as you see in my note to Doffen above, I haven't managed this yet!
Don't be trying to pick a fight. Like the quote says below this, it's common courtesy. Ever hear of Chivalry? Well it was a code of honor for men. Women are supposed to be respected and kept from all distainful acts in society.
Yah, Driad, I think your pugnacious answer was more than what Fortunati warranted. He just asked. Take it easy.

That said, I agree with you. Per the example of my hubby above, I really appreciate when he tries to shield me from hearing stuff that's coarse. I think it shows he respects be and believes I am better than that. It's almost the same as if he picked me up and carried me over a mud puddle so I wouldn't ruin my shoes ... Some ladies wouldn't care for that, but some would. :)

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Where? I'm genuinely curious. I know swearing is generally frowned upon by Christianity, but no one has ever been able to explain why, beyond the commandment about taking God's name in vain, but most swearing doesn't do that. That's something that has always confused me.Ephesians 5:3-5 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Ephesians+5%3A3-5&version1=51), for starters. I'll poke around a bit more, because I'm sure St. Paul admonished against coarse speech in at least one other place (the problem is, the translations vary so much that the search is complicated - some say "coarse jesting", others "rude speech", and so forth.)

The idea is that our speech should bless and edify people. Not that we have to be sprinkling every sentence with "amens" and "hallelujahs" (that's a caricature anyway), but what we say should be positive and encouraging. "Not swearing or using coarse language" is sort of a minimum standard, like "not beating your children". The ideal is much higher.

[Near]

I loathe swearing, however, I'm not perfect. I've shouted out quite a bit of those words myself.

When a person swears, more so when they do it on a regular basis, it makes them just look unintelligent.

[Frodosgurl]

People can swear if they wish, however it does not make them look any "cooler", "better", or "tougher" than the person who doesn't. All it means is the person who doesn't has a larger vocabulary. ;):p

LOL...smooth Zack. :p

[Driad54]

Yah, Driad, I think your pugnacious answer was more than what Fortunati warranted. He just asked. Take it easy.

That said, I agree with you.

Point taken.

[Kells]

The idea that cursing in front of a woman demonstrates a lack of character on one's part intrigues me. Why in front of women? Do you think they're going to faint or something? And, also, why the 'even' in '...even women do a lot of cursing'? It suggests that men are expected to, while women aren't. Why is that? And isn't that something of a double standard? We're all human; surely a woman can be just as prone to bad language as a man?

I don't see men swearing as a double standard, but as a threat. Maybe it comes from being a tiny gal, but any man who gushes profanity when he is angry or talks way too often and crudely about sex is bound to be intimidating.

[MRW]

@Truman & PrinceoftheWest:
Thanks. That certainly helps explain it much better.

[NotATameLion]

I've never cussed (as we call it here), and I find it really offensive. I heard enough of it during my years in public school to last me a lifetime, or two. :rolleyes: Because of that, I hate it even more.

I agree with those who have said that there are much better ways to express yourself (even if you're angry or frustrated) than by swearing.

[Nightfire]

In my grade, I can already name about ten people who I hear cursing in the hallways when I pass by them; but they always manage to have the teachers not hear them. It shocks me that they're so practiced that they know the perfect level to have everyone around them hear, but not the teacher.

I admit to have cursed before; but it was because either I was hurt or I was really venting out some hate against someone. I don't consider it BAD, but I certainly don't think you should use it in front of youngsters. Maybe with a circle of your-age friends, but even then....

[Jack of Blades]

In my grade, I can already name about ten people who I hear cursing in the hallways when I pass by them; but they always manage to have the teachers not hear them. It shocks me that they're so practiced that they know the perfect level to have everyone around them hear, but not the teacher.

I admit to have cursed before; but it was because either I was hurt or I was really venting out some hate against someone. I don't consider it BAD, but I certainly don't think you should use it in front of youngsters. Maybe with a circle of your-age friends, but even then....

No, the teachers hear just as much as you do. But if they got onto a kid every time they cursed, they wouldn't have a job.

[DeviaAngelus]

if people in my class mess something up or something, our teachers always go, 'Well you REALLY c****d it up this time, havent you' (rude word meaning male sexual organ) but they get away with it because my schools basically a private one.

[Truman]

Oh! :mad: See, those are examples of people I don't respect. Teachers do this there? They have no honor at all to use such language around students, even if the students themselves use the language. I thought the older generation existed for passing on their example (before the school system got all messed up). They are unrefined as well as they are foolish. I hate it.

[Nightfire]

Actually, Jack of Blades - why would the teachers get fired for doing the right thing?

[Aravis Kenobi]

I don't curse, but I certainly live around people who do. A lot. When I ask them why they do it, the response is usually along the lines of

"Oh, everyone curses. They curse so much, that the word has actually lost its meaning. So it's no longer a curse, so it's okay to say."

Now, I don't agree with this, but I'm not sure why? Am I just stubborn? Does cursing and swearing lose its meaning, and cease to be a taboo when used in excess?

What counts as a curse? Am I swearing everytime i say "Darn it!" or "Oh my gosh"?

To people who live by the Bible's words, "Do not take the name of the Lord your God in vain" swearing is always WRONG. no matter how mild, such as crap or sucks. I am trying my hardest not to use those words, including butt. Why? I've been raised to avoid using "potty-mouth" words. Now, in our world, cursing\swearing has become a norm. But like premarital sex, just becasue it's the norm doesn't make it right or excusable.

This is why I don't hang out with people who curse regularly. It rubs off on me and it's a very easy thing to start and very hard to stop. God doesn't want us to swear in any form *even though I use darn, heck and gosh...trying to stop that* because what's in your mouth reflects what's in your heart.

If you're a Christian, and you're conscious of it, ask yourself this: would God or Jesus want me to talk like this in front of unbelievers? This is one of the most detrimental things to a person's Christian testimony. It's called talking the talk but not walking the walk. It's very easy to say you're a Christian and go to church but if you have a mouth that swears every few words, then maybe you need to re-assess your life\heart.

[DeviaAngelus]

Oh! :mad: See, those are examples of people I don't respect. Teachers do this there? They have no honor at all to use such language around students, even if the students themselves use the language. I thought the older generation existed for passing on their example (before the school system got all messed up). They are unrefined as well as they are foolish. I hate it.

its just that word, and its not very vulgar over here. they dont use it that often, and its only the male teachers.

[Copperfox]

Nightfire: why would the teachers get fired for doing the right thing?

Because of political correctness. If the student using the bad language can claim membership in any more-victimized-than-thou grievance-group, absolutely ANY disciplinary action against that student WILL be self-servingly protested as "racism" or "intolerance."

[Ephinie]

About the teachers as well: They have to "pick their battles." If they were constantly harping on students for every naughty word they hear, they'd be doing nothing but yelling at potty-mouths. That would damage their overall relationships with students (no one likes an authority figure who does nothing but correct and doesn't take or have the time to build a rapore as well), take time away from teaching, and cause them to not be able to deal with more serious issues when they arise. It could be that if they hear a swear word thrown around, they choose to let it fly rather than taking up time and energy trying to find out who said it and then correct that individual when it could be spent a better way.

[Nightfire]

About the teachers as well: They have to "pick their battles." If they were constantly harping on students for every naughty word they hear, they'd be doing nothing but yelling at potty-mouths. That would damage their overall relationships with students (no one likes an authority figure who does nothing but correct and doesn't take or have the time to build a rapore as well), take time away from teaching, and cause them to not be able to deal with more serious issues when they arise. It could be that if they hear a swear word thrown around, they choose to let it fly rather than taking up time and energy trying to find out who said it and then correct that individual when it could be spent a better way.
Some of the students do it so often, though... I just don't understand why the teachers don't at least reprimand them once about it.

Because of political correctness. If the student using the bad language can claim membership in any more-victimized-than-thou grievance-group, absolutely ANY disciplinary action against that student WILL be self-servingly protested as "racism" or "intolerance."
So you mean that they will only be punished if they are using bad language and admit they are part of some gang?

[Aravis Kenobi]

I think what Copperfox meant is that political correctness is so rampant in every day *especially schools* that a teacher can't even spank a child for fear of being sued by the parents! *He didnt' say that but I had to use that example.* I think most people are so afraid of "offending" other people that they set up these rules that you can't get onto a child, can't discipline them, etc...

I know in the state of Texas, it's against the law to spank a child in a school. *which is one reason for all the misbehavior in our world today* it's politically correct it seems to swear in school, students and teachers. It's politically correct to have premarital sex yet preach on "safe sex" *there's no such thing as safe sex unless it's sex inside of marriage*, it's politically correct to be "tolerant" of every religion except Christianity. *a lot of schools have more text on Islam than on Christianity*; it's politically correct to do the wrong thing instead of the right thing. It's politically correct to say, "happy holidays" or "season's greetings" instead of merry CHRISTmas. It's politically correct to not mention the name of Jesus on television, radio or movies except in profanity. *this includes Jeez; a slang term for Jesus.*

Get my drift? I think I'm going along with what Copperfox said, but he's more than welcome to elaborate on his point. :)

[Nightfire]

So the teachers are afraid that they will lose their jobs, but they aren't afraid that these kids can very well affect our society? *sigh*

[Jack of Blades]

So the teachers are afraid that they will lose their jobs, but they aren't afraid that these kids can very well affect our society? *sigh*

...Ephinie is right when she says the teachers have to "pick their battles".

Think about it, how many times do you here cussing in an hour? If teachers got onto the students all the time for swearing (not to mention the other no-nos), teaching would cease to exist and all that would be left would be a correctional facility, not a school.

If a kid has it set in their heart that they're going to do something (swear, fight, etc.) you can't stop them.
And if you weren't aware, EVERYONE swears. Kids doing it isn't going to cause our perfect society to be any worse. Swearing constantly only makes you unpleasant to be around, not corrode society.

And what Copperfox said was not at all what I had meant. In fact, I've never heard such a thing.
What I meant was that if a teacher gave Detention every time they heard swearing, they would have little to no students. Really, I don't think teachers can just send all their students to detention. For one, it allows them to be paid without doing their job. And it hurts the reputation of the school, I mean, once word gets around that all the kids are in detention, parents are going to say "I sure don't want my kid going there". And if that was the case, there wouldn't be a school in America.

[Copperfox]

Aravis Kenobi did pretty well.

A good friend of mine in Illinois was the school psychologist at a high school. It was politically incorrect there even to recognize the possibility that a teenager might do wrong ON PURPOSE and be morally responsible for his own actions. My friend, therefore, was forced to go along with the fiction that any disruptive student invariably was only "troubled," needing "help"--NEVER guilty of deliberate wrongdoing.

[Aravis Kenobi]

@JOB: maybe swearing won't corrode society, but number one,it's made the youth of this country disrespectful. number two, the christians *including those who claim to be* should be the ones to use clean language all the time. Now, explain to me how THAT isn't detrimental, i.e. corrosive. The more tolerant anybody is of anything, things like *EDITED BY MOD*, premarital sex, cursing, violence, etc... the more it becomes a problem. *sigh* I wonder how our culture got to be where it is today? oh wait, I have the answer to that: tolerance. Tolerance of things normally considered wrong.

[Jack of Blades]

@JOB: maybe swearing won't corrode society, but number one,it's made the youth of this country disrespectful. number two, the christians *including those who claim to be* should be the ones to use clean language all the time. Now, explain to me how THAT isn't detrimental, i.e. corrosive. The more tolerant anybody is of anything, things like homosexuality, premarital sex, cursing, violence, etc... the more it becomes a problem. *sigh* I wonder how our culture got to be where it is today? oh wait, I have the answer to that: tolerance. Tolerance of things normally considered wrong.

What are you talking about? We need tolerance!
*EDITED BY MOD*

And you do realize, what the heck is "Tolerating things that are righteous"? What do you think tolerance is?

You're right, Christians SHOULD be perfect, but we're not.
And swearing didn't make "this generation disrespectful", swearing just gave them a tool to be disrespectful with. Children, youth in general, have always been disrespectful. Teens rebelling has nothing to do with cussing, that's like saying video games are the cause for violence.

I don't see how we're tolerant of premarital sex. I've seen all kinds of stuff about trying to get teens not to, but teens have been having sex, well... since ever. I, in my life, have never heard of a parent saying it's alright for their kids to go ahead and have sex. I have heard them telling them to use birth control if they do, because, like I said, you can't stop a kid from doing wrong.

And no, our culture "got this way" because we're very individualistic. Which is why practically every generation is considered a rebellious one. It also got this way because of instant gratification, aka Credit.
I for one, don't agree that swearing has destroyed our great values.

[MRW]

Can we stay away from the *EDITED BY MOD* issue? It's banned on the forums, and derailing this thread may get it locked.

I think what Copperfox meant is that political correctness is so rampant in every day *especially schools* that a teacher can't even spank a child for fear of being sued by the parents! *He didnt' say that but I had to use that example.* I think most people are so afraid of "offending" other people that they set up these rules that you can't get onto a child, can't discipline them, etc...

I know in the state of Texas, it's against the law to spank a child in a school.
And a good thing too. I have no problem with a parent spanking their own child, but when someone who is not the parent steps in and takes that much control, something has gone too far. There are other methods of punishment that are just as effective as spanking.

As far as Jack of Blades' situation goes, I'm assuming he/she goes to public school, which is another reason teachers probably don't/can't crack down on swearing. Some of the teachers probably don't have a problem with swearing, and since there's no solid basis for making a rule against it (society in general doesn't mind swearing and you can't bring religion into it), those who do have a problem with it have nothing to back them up.

The more tolerant anybody is of anything, things like *EDITED BY MOD*, premarital sex, cursing, violence, etc... the more it becomes a problem. *sigh* I wonder how our culture got to be where it is today? oh wait, I have the answer to that: tolerance. Tolerance of things normally considered wrong.
And that's why Christian schools exist. They're not perfectly secluded from these issues, but since they're private institutions, teachers are allowed much more leeway than those at public schools, and the percentage of these issues that you find there is much lower. I mean, stuff still happened at my schools (kids still swore and had sex), but the teachers were allowed to punish them when they got caught. And home-schooling is also an option in most states.

[Copperfox]

Aravis and Jack, I say it to you before a Mod says it: on this forum it is official policy that there is no such thing as--that kind of behavior which there is no such thing as.

But as for tolerance: what it is NOW, is a concept which has been self-servingly inflated beyond its legitimate meaning. As for Jesus "not throwing anyone out for being [what there is no such thing as], He made perfectly clear in His preaching that the moral standards of the Mosaic Law were not simply abolished. He rescued the Adulterous Woman, to be sure; but today's distorted "tolerance" would demand that He encourage her to go right back to her adultery, whereas He actually told her she needed to STOP what she had been doing.

[Truman]

Actually, JoB is right, but only to a certain extent. We need tolerance of Christians. Do you know how many Christians in America (especially in school) are being scorned, and yet one school decides to require a day where everyone gets in Muslim garb and offer prayers to Allah? Tolerance of Christians is what we need. So much receptivity has been given to such sects (gays, fornicaters, other religions, etc.) that this has caused Christianity to be hated by many. Too much tolerance can be a mistake, and give other people a bad name.

*EDITED BY MOD*

EDIT: I understand the "not to be mentioned" word, but it's not like I'm describing what is done. I don't think it's harmful if the word is used as a description to a group, since we all know what that group is anyway.

[Jack of Blades]

But as for tolerance: what it is NOW, is a concept which has been self-servingly inflated beyond its legitimate meaning. As for Jesus "not throwing anyone out for being [what there is no such thing as], He made perfectly clear in His preaching that the moral standards of the Mosaic Law were not simply abolished. He rescued the Adulterous Woman, to be sure; but today's distorted "tolerance" would demand that He encourage her to go right back to her adultery, whereas He actually told her she needed to STOP what she had been doing.

Ok, well I think I'm going to PM you about something that I just can't hold in any longer.

Actually, JoB is right, but only to a certain extent. We need tolerance of Christians. Do you know how many Christians in America (especially in school) are being scorned, and yet one school decides to require a day where everyone gets in Muslim garb and offer prayers to Allah? Tolerance of Christians is what we need. So much receptivity has been given to such sects (gays, fornicaters, other religions, etc.) that this has caused Christianity to be hated by many. Too much tolerance can be a mistake, and give other people a bad name.


It's said in the Bible that we will be hated, it's not something we can stop. What we have to do is try and not give the world a reason to hate us. And even myself being a Christian, I can think of many reasons why people would hate us, and even I'm extremely annoyed I am with us. Christians kind of acted like the Borg and moved to say Bush was right in every decision he did, even though it turned out to be an illeagle war. What annoys me there is how some Christians don't feel the need for a brain, but to follow the crowd.
About whatever school you're talking about, they can't make anyone DO anything.
Receptivity to other sects is what has caused hate towards Christians? I don't even see where you've gotten this idea, or where you even could! We run around saying that they are sinners, perverts, evil-people, that they're going to Hell and will burn in eternal hellfire. I really don't think that we've been TOO tolerant of them, not that no one has been tolerant, I'm just saying, we surely have NOT been TOO tolerant.

[kingcaspian]

At my school, it's really difficult to tell whether or not who's a Christian anymore because it seems like 98% of the students there swear. I can even count the number of people I have never heard ever cuss: 10(that's a estimate) But it seems like they only swear when they are with their friends. I've been homeschooled all the way through 8th Grade, and when I finally went to public school I was shocked at all the swearing that people did. Even some P.E. teachers swear occasionally, yet they correct students that do swear. I have gradually become used to the swearing people do, yet I don't swear. The most offensive word I use is crap, and I don't consider that a swear wod. I mostly use what Wikipedia calls "minced profanities"(gee, gosh, dang, friggin', etc.) I grew up in a home that didn't allow swearing, and nobody in my household swore at all so I didn't really learn to. My dad was really annoyed about how many movies were ruined just because of the swearing, like "Back to the Future" and "Rocky". Mainly, I don't see the point of swearing anyway. And if I ever need to chew someone out, I wouldn't swear. If just more people were like Tony Dungy!(For those of you who don't know, he's the Christian coach of the Indianapolis Colts, a professional football team) He tells his football players "I will never yell at you, or swear at you. If I ever feel like I need to, then you are going to be leaving this team." That's one reason the Colts do so well.

[kingcaspian]

Christians kind of acted like the Borg and moved to say Bush was right in every decision he did, even though it turned out to be an illeagle war.

What do you mean by illegal war? Like he used the idea that Iraq was storing weapons of mass destruction, so we need to attack Iraq? Well, I believe that he actually cares about our national security. Saddam Hussein probably would have used those weapons if he had them, so that's why Bush, who I believe was a victim of faulty intelligence, attacked Iraq. I also think that Bush is a victim of an even more unpopular Congress. But this getting too politcal, so just answer my illegal war question and move on. This too good a thread to be locked.

[MRW]

OK, so I'm ignoring my own advice. Call me a hypocrite.

*EDITED BY MOD* Political debates are technically banned too.

Actually, JoB is right, but only to a certain extent. We need tolerance of Christians. Do you know how many Christians in America (especially in school) are being scorned, and yet one school decides to require a day where everyone gets in Muslim garb and offer prayers to Allah? Tolerance of Christians is what we need. So much receptivity has been given to such sects (gays, fornicaters, other religions, etc.) that this has caused Christianity to be hated by many. Too much tolerance can be a mistake, and give other people a bad name.

Homosexuality is a very small minority. However, it's made out to be a large culture by the media. The gays want their marriage "right" to be passed in courts, not because they want to be married, but so they can get rid of marriage altogether. It'll eventually come to the point where if a man can get married to another man, why not two? Then the heterosexuals will speak up about that and say, "Why can't we have two wives? or two husbands?" Then, why can't there be group marriages? Why can't there be beastial marriage? Why can't there be no marriage at all? After all, it's just a piece of paper with names signed on it; unneeded really.

That's the point of it, and I'm overjoyed that Proposition 8 passed. It's time we fight back!

EDIT: I understand the "not to be mentioned" word, but it's not like I'm describing what is done. I don't think it's harmful if the word is used as a description to a group, since we all know what that group is anyway.

OK, I agree with you about Christianity needing tolerance as much as any other religion. However, I'm going to call bull on the rest of your post.

We don't want to abolish marraige. If we wanted to abolish it, why would we be trying to get it in the first place?! I certainly don't want multiple wives. I just want the option of having my partner be legally recognized as family the way everyone else gets to.

OK, I'm done.

[EveningStar]

This thread has gone way off topic. Now it delves into sexual preferences, Bush, illegal war, and teachers that lack resolve to clean up schools.

From this point on, from this POST on, the official topic is swearing itself. Whether it is good, bad or ugly. How to fight it. Whether it is ever appropriate. Whether or not it is sin. There will be no more mention of sexual preferences. There will be no more argueing whether Christians need more tolerance, or whether people should be more tolerant of Christians.

Those topics that can be discussed in other threads ON TOPIC should be carried to other threads. Those topics which cannot be discussed anywhere else on the forum shan't be discussed here as well.

I am a Yale alumnus. Not the university, the lock. I will either successfully moderate this thread to acceptable forum standards or I will successfully lock this thread to acceptable technical standards.

This is your only warning.

[Aravis Kenobi]

And you do realize, what the heck is "Tolerating things that are righteous"? What do you think tolerance is?

You're right, Christians SHOULD be perfect, but we're not.
And swearing didn't make "this generation disrespectful", swearing just gave them a tool to be disrespectful with. Children, youth in general, have always been disrespectful. Teens rebelling has nothing to do with cussing, that's like saying video games are the cause for violence.

I don't see how we're tolerant of premarital sex. I've seen all kinds of stuff about trying to get teens not to, but teens have been having sex, well... since ever. I, in my life, have never heard of a parent saying it's alright for their kids to go ahead and have sex. I have heard them telling them to use birth control if they do, because, like I said, you can't stop a kid from doing wrong.

And no, our culture "got this way" because we're very individualistic. Which is why practically every generation is considered a rebellious one. It also got this way because of instant gratification, aka Credit.
I for one, don't agree that swearing has destroyed our great values.

I won't reply to this here because ES said not to. I'd very much like to state my other points but as it's clearly been advised against, I'll keep my mouth shut. I didn't realize these topics were banned and it's been so long since I've been here that either it was something I completely missed before I left or it's been insituted recently.

[theorangejello]

right -

I've just come to realize that many of my acquintances and classmates don't see me as the type of girl to swear
and thus when in a state of anger i do end up swearing
They usually ignore my reason of outburst
and instead ponder of when did i learn to swear
or if i do it alot..alone, away from them.

i find it amusing.

[EveningStar]

It is very important that everyone realize this. There are classes where medical students learn how to deliver a baby and do the infamous white glove test on an older man. That is very important and very needful that such things be discussed in detail there. And it's morally right for doctors to learn such things and to settle any questions they may have about them.

There is, however, a proper time and place. One of those doctors wouldn't go home and discuss it with the family over Thanksgiving Dinner.

Let's be honest. You like loud music at parties. You hate loud music when your neighbours blast it while you're in bed. There is a place for everything. We make life on this forum better for everyone by setting down some ground rules. Mods are not Nazi SS men marching about in jack boots looking for someone who isn't gung-ho for the New World Order. We're fellow members who uphold certain standards of safety and comfort to keep the environment friendly to families.

[MRW]

OT:
I'm always interested in the words that various languages and cultures find inappropriate in relation to other cultures. In English, for example, there are certain words that almost all English-speaking countries find vulgar. But within various English-speaking factions, if you will, there are other things that vary a lot.

Take the difference between Britain and America: a rude hand gesture that means essentially the same thing in both countries is performed in two different ways. "Bloody" is a swear word in Britain, and yet over in America it is allowed on primetime network TV.

I'm guessing it's just basic differences in culture, and the history behind the word/gesture that makes a certain group of people consider it taboo.

[Doffen]

Over here in my small part of the word, people start picking up bad-language from other cultures. Mostly from America, but some from Germany and Sweden too. I think the most used curse words are English ones. Basicly because even the CHINESE uses them more then their own.

as mentioned before, I feel nothing bad towards a curse word. I just think it's an unintellectual way of talking. I saw some people sitting in a mall one day, and I randomly picked up a part of their conversation (Now it has to be said that these guys didn't have a 100% of our language, as it seemed they were all immigrants from some eastern countries), and these guys REPLACED a "." (end of sentence) with a very famous curse word from here. I was just wondering "How could those guys even THINK of getting a job..?"

[Truman]

HaHA! It does make you wonder! :rolleyes:

[Nightfire]

Over here in my small part of the word, people start picking up bad-language from other cultures. Mostly from America, but some from Germany and Sweden too. I think the most used curse words are English ones. Basicly because even the CHINESE uses them more then their own.


oh, i've had so much of that happen while i was in russia. for some reason i heard the b-word and the f-word used in their vocabulary of curse words. i was shocked to know that they used them for awhile. and they knew even more. i was just like :eek:

[EveningStar]

Mostly the Irish won't say "Go to H--L!" because they have a superstitious dread of making curses with religious significance. But they will say "May the Devil use your backbone for a ladder!" which means the same thing.

[Doffen]

oh, i've had so much of that happen while i was in russia. for some reason i heard the b-word and the f-word used in their vocabulary of curse words. i was shocked to know that they used them for awhile. and they knew even more. i was just like :eek:

well I got another suprise for ya ;) .. Many of the curse words used in the English speaking countries are based on other languages. I could've named several, but yeah... ^^

[Nightfire]

well I got another suprise for ya ;) .. Many of the curse words used in the English speaking countries are based on other languages. I could've named several, but yeah... ^^

*sigh*. i seriously hope that someday society won't be so low as to use the f-word after every other word in a sentence.

[Ephinie]

*sigh*. i seriously hope that someday society won't be so low as to use the f-word after every other word in a sentence.
I have heard this done before. It sounds quite ridiculous.

[skandar_hh10]

Swearing. Well the words have not changed at all. It's the people using them.

My personal view is summed up in the verse "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man." Mat. 15:18

[EveningStar]

Many of the curse words used in the English speaking countries are based on other languages.All our toys are made in China. All our businesses are outsourced. Even if we curse this state of affairs, we're snookered.... :p

[Doffen]

all our toys are made in china. All our businesses are outsourced. Even if we curse this state of affairs, we're snookered.... :p

lol!!!!!!!

[kingcaspian]

Early on Copperfox mentioned about the swearing in the Navy. Now, I have a question. If you hang around people that swear alot long enough could you get the habit? I know Copperfox was a retired Navy vet and I wondered if he ever got tempted to swear.

[MRW]

Probably. It happens with all sorts of turns of phrase, not just swearing. I use expressions that I never used before meeting certain people.

[skandar_hh10]

Persons I know through my church and friends have their own words that they use when upset. Such as cracker<that's mine!, gee, air plane, etc. Sometimes it helps me lighten up on my perspective of the situation. The dark just keeps getting darker, but shed a little light and the mystery will be made known. ish.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Early on Copperfox mentioned about the swearing in the Navy. Now, I have a question. If you hang around people that swear alot long enough could you get the habit? I know Copperfox was a retired Navy vet and I wondered if he ever got tempted to swear.
I can speak from my experience in the Coast Guard (kind of like the Navy, only better.) The answer is yes! Hanging around people who use coarse and foul language does "rub off". Furthermore, even if you are able to keep your language from containing explicit profanity, it tends to take on a rough, crude edge. It's kind of hard to describe, but you know it when you hear it.

This is one reason why the Wisdom Books of Scripture warn people (especially young men!) about watching who they hang out with, because habits rub off.

It's important to keep in mind that this works the other way, too - if you have a strong enough character and personality, your speech (and other) patterns will rub off on others. When I was in the service, and initially succumbed to the habit of coarse speech and profanity, the Lord spoke sharply to me about whether that was glorifying Him. That started a lengthy lesson about the importance of our speech that went far beyond simply "not swearing" and into learning about how my speech could comfort and edify others. By the time that was over, other guys on the ship would spontaneously curb their speech patterns in my presence, and would seek me out to talk to me with problems. I say this not to blow my own horn, but to point out that when you let God teach you how to follow His instructions for living, the fruit is good and observable.

I'm sure CF could give similar testimony.

[kingcaspian]

Thanks, PotW. I have to admit my language has taken a little bit of a coarse edge ever since I went to public school.

[Nightfire]

I have heard this done before. It sounds quite ridiculous.

Not only does it sound ridiculous, but I think it makes the person seem unintelligent - and they have nothing else to say. Well, unless they're really POed. Then I get it.

[kingcaspian]

I'm wondering now how some of these words were created and why they are considered swear words.:confused:

[Ephinie]

I'm wondering now how some of these words were created and why they are considered swear words.:confused:Well... I have a rather amusing story about how the F word came into existence... it involves the middle ages and the plague, but I don't think any more than that is family friendly. And, of course, I'm sure the story is nothing but hype.

But in general, I agree with you 100%. I love language - not just our own, but other languages. I find word development facinating, and I've always been particularly interested in naughty words. Particularly, I've always been interested in how naughty words earned their reputation as naughty rather than a proper term for a certain thing. It's interesting to look swear words up on wikipedia and read what it says about them, but of course you can't rely on the accuracy of wikipedia. I regard it as just amusing.

[Copperfox]

It is appalling just how MANY foul phrases there are in Russian. Appalling but not surprising, after more than 70 years of the Communists telling people that there WAS NO source of morality except whatever the Party found convenient.

[Nightfire]

It is appalling just how MANY foul phrases there are in Russian. Appalling but not surprising, after more than 70 years of the Communists telling people that there WAS NO source of morality except whatever the Party found convenient.

After living for a few years with kids my age (which isn't very old), I learned pretty much all of them.... I think it's kind of the "personality" that some (some, not all) cities/towns/regions have adopted. For example, in 7th grade, the kids in my class smoked/drank/used VERY foul language. I think it also sometimes depends on background.

[Skandarluver4eva]

I don't curse, but I certainly live around people who do. A lot. When I ask them why they do it, the response is usually along the lines of

"Oh, everyone curses. They curse so much, that the word has actually lost its meaning. So it's no longer a curse, so it's okay to say."

Now, I don't agree with this, but I'm not sure why? Am I just stubborn? Does cursing and swearing lose its meaning, and cease to be a taboo when used in excess?

What counts as a curse? Am I swearing everytime i say "Darn it!" or "Oh my gosh"?

i dont believe you are....i do it to so if you are i am but i dont consiter it to be cursing

[ndfan1993]

I don't curse. Ever.

Well, what is considered curse words.

I say oh my goodness and gosh, but IS that bad to say? Should I just shut up instead of yell something when I stub my toe or hit my head?

I DO protest greatly though when someone uses the Lord's name in vain, and I protest slightly less when people curse around me. I, um, yelled at my friend once, um, on the bus, for cursing God's name.

But because cursing is bad, is it also bad to WATCH movies with cursing? Even one word? It seems my family has this unspoken rule that is how the word is spoken(For example if the person is worshipping God or something and says 'Oh my God, thank you' that is fine, but if they just exclaim it...not so much) and which word(s). Basically if it's one curse word, it's okay. Any more, I'll usually turn it off immediately.

[Copperfox]

To forbid saying "Oh my goodness" would be an ABSURD extreme of prudishness. Notice how, in the BOOK of "Prince Caspian," Mr. Lewis provided Trumpkin with a whole vocabulary of "pseudo-cussing" which was colorful but absolutely harmless.

[Miss.SunFlower]

this is going to be a gigantic shocker to you all but I sometimes swear. :eek: only on two occasions, when I'm joking with my friends, and none of us mean it. (well at least I don't mean it, some of my friends cuss much more than I'd like them to. much much more) and then sometimes when I'm alone I'll swear at objects, like my computer when the internet is down. I never use anything really offensive and I try to find new words I can replace a curse word with, but I do forget sometimes.

[NarnianofGryffindor]

I don't curse often, only when I'm really mad, but I don't mind it when my friend's curse in casual conversation. During a presentation in class or something, I find it very unproffessional, though. So I would say I'm okay with cursing, just depends when and where. I think it's one of things, that will differ with certain people. Some people are ok with it, but some are offended by it. It's all up to you.

[Copperfox]

I wonder how many "proper" souls will rebuke someone else for using technically "bad" language--and ten minutes later, be doing FAR WORSE themselves, not by using the official bad words, but by saying INTENTIONALLY HURTFUL things to others in "clean" but cruel words.

[NarnianofGryffindor]

I wonder how many "proper" souls will rebuke someone else for using technically "bad" language--and ten minutes later, be doing FAR WORSE themselves, not by using the official bad words, but by saying INTENTIONALLY HURTFUL things to others in "clean" but cruel words.

Exactly, people condemn curse words, but people can be hurt worse with "proper" language than with "bad" language. It's really the motive behind the words, than the words themselves.

[Ephinie]

My entire life until I was a Freshman in college, I had never once uttered a swear word of any kind. Having also been raised not to say heck, darn, or dang, I also had never used any of those words. My decision to start swearing at that time had absolutely nothing to do with being exposed to it more. As a matter of fact, I had been constantly exposed to swearing my entire life. My father and my brothers all swore like sailors constantly. When I got to college, I almost never heard a swear word uttered because it was against school policy and could get one fined.

To this day, I still have never sworn in anger or in frustration or in the "heat of the moment." It's just not part of my vocabulary in that way.

So what exactly changed, and in what ways do I swear? It would take a long time to rehash the entire decision making process... but the short of it was that I came to the conclusion that swearing really isn't wrong. Taking the Lord's name in vain is one thing, but other so-called swear words are not the same thing. They are only considered vulgar if used in certain ways, and whether or not they are considered vulgar depends heavily on the culture. Fact of the matter is, they are strong words... and there are times when a strong word describes what you are trying to convey better than a nicer one.

Out of consideration for others, though, I also never swear unless I am speaking to someone who I KNOW is not offended by it.

[Copperfox]

Ephinie, I wonder how many others do the same as you do....but don't have your honesty to admit it?

[Ephinie]

Ephinie, I wonder how many others do the same as you do....but don't have your honesty to admit it?
If you don't think it's wrong, I don't see why there would be any reason not to admit it.

[inkspot]

Yah, Ms-Butter-Doesn't-Melt-in-My-Mouth Inkspot used to swear like a sailor. When I lived in the Caribbean working as a scuba instructor, all the people I worked with swore all the time, and I just fell in the habit of doing this. It wasn't offensive to these people, and it ceased to offend me. And I'd had a good education by Lenny Bruce that "When I use a word, it means exactly what I choose for it to mean." It did not seem to me that these words had any magic-sinful meaning once I chose to use them in everyday conversation instead of other adjectives and exclamations.

When I came back to the USA, went to work in an office, became part of the life of my amazing little niece, and, eventually, began to really grow in my faith ... that whole attitude changed. Could I say I respected myself if I launched an ugly verbal assault on my own ears? Certainly I couldn't say I respected my little niece or family if I felt no compunction about polluting their ear-space. Maybe I didn't mean a literal physical function when I said those words, but certainly that's what those around me understood them to mean.

In short, it occured to me that I had been mistaken back in the islands when I thought it wasn't offensive to use that language. Of course it was offensive. I had just chosen not to be offended. I had lowered my standards to accomodate my crowd. It was hypocrisy to say I wouldn't cuss around the little one or my mother, but I would go ahead and cuss around my grown-up heathen friends because they didn't care. Would I have taken the same attitude about dressing trampy, or stealing or using drugs -- I'll just do it when I'm not around the baby, and that will be fine?

Of course not. There ought not to be a double-standard of behavior based on who you're around. And anymore, I think this applies to the movies I watch and the music I listen to. If it isn't fit for a child to hear, why do I think it is fit for me to hear?

The argument that someone with a foul mouth might be a much nicer person than a Christian who never cusses is a red herring in the case. Someone with a foul mouth might be a much more mean person than a Christian who never cusses. So what? That's a non-issue.

I feel if we need to resort to unseemly talk to express ourselves, then I don't really think Christ has control in our lives. If we act one way with a certain set of people and a different way with another set of people, then I know Christ doesn't have control in our lives, because He Himself warned against the poison of hypocrisy. And isn't that what it is?

I'm not saying I am perfect, and that I never cuss. If I get in a bind, I can still let it out. But it is a shame to me to say that, and I would never advise anyone to take up cussing just because the words only mean what we want them to mean. That certainly is not so.

[SweetWaters]

As a person who believes (as it seems would many previous posters) that swearing is utterly disgusting, immature, and unnecessary, I'm wondering what some of you think about how to deal with people who swear excessively. It's one thing if the people are strangers you overhear in a restaurant, but how about people you live with? Both of my roommates at college consider themselves Christians, and yet surround themselves with ugly language. I've heard one person say that you just need to accept people for who they are, but this is really starting to wear on me. Any suggestions or just general opinions?

[Driad54]

For those who have a very strong distaste for cursing..

...the movie Jarhead is not for you. :D

[EveningStar]

If one guy has repressed anger and curses in front of three, he makes himself feel releaved but makes three others feel uncomfortable.

If one guy has repressed anger and asks three friends for help, he gets great advice, feels better, and makes three others feel important.

And think before you pray or you kiss your mum or your little sister...do you really want to kiss the one you love or pray to your Heavenly Father with that mouth?

I'm not perfect, but I don't think it justifies me not at least trying to be better. I do try.

My two cents.

[Ephinie]

As a person who believes (as it seems would many previous posters) that swearing is utterly disgusting, immature, and unnecessary, I'm wondering what some of you think about how to deal with people who swear excessively. It's one thing if the people are strangers you overhear in a restaurant, but how about people you live with? Both of my roommates at college consider themselves Christians, and yet surround themselves with ugly language. I've heard one person say that you just need to accept people for who they are, but this is really starting to wear on me. Any suggestions or just general opinions?
I would suggest you just talk to them and let them know how much it bothers you. If they have any regard for your feelings, they ought to listen and try to do better. If, on the other hand, they decide you are just a silly old prude and don't feel like they need to respect your feelings... there isn't much you can do. They are adults, and their speech is their own decision. You can't punish them for it or force them to cut it out. If after speaking to them about it respectfully, they decide to disregard you, you might want to consider requesting different roommates for next semester.

[Laura Lee]

Cursing doesn't even occur to me when speaking because I'm too literal (which still can have the unintentional effect of people percieving me as mean). I read in some previous posts that some people here consider replacing curse words with benign words to still be cursing, but I find this acceptable and occasionally amusing (I appreciate that an effort was made to not offend!)... those are the things we say when we need to express ourselves but can't find the right words. I find people tend to curse less when around other people who don't, because if they're the only one cursing they realize they're being ignorant, vulgar, hateful or inconsiderate. Whether or not I'm personally offended by cursing depends on the speaker's meaning and not the literal interpretation. I avoid people who can't control it and get angry when it's done in front of children.

[Benisse]

Early on Copperfox mentioned about the swearing in the Navy. Now, I have a question. If you hang around people that swear alot long enough could you get the habit? I know Copperfox was a retired Navy vet and I wondered if he ever got tempted to swear.

Hi King Caspian,
I'm afraid bad habits are contagious.
Today during family Bible reading it was my son's turn to pick the verse from the chapter we read to talk about. He picked Jeremiah 15:19b-20a [new Living Translation]:
If you speak good words rather than worthless ones,
you will be my spokesman.
You must influence them;
do not let them influence you!
They will fight against you like an attacking army,
but I will make you as secure as a fortified wall of bronze.

I asked him what was it about these verses that prompted him to choose them and he said, "Sometimes it is so hard to be a Christian at a public high school." So I asked him for specifics and he said that sometimes he caught himself cussing because it is so endemic there.

So I told him I would pray for him, and I said I could put Jeremiah 15:19b-20a on his book covers if he thought it would help. He okayed that proposal, and I plan to print out a couple labels with that passage for him to use as stickers.

[dawnpatrol]

The only time I'm guilty of swearing is in moments of extreme pain like when I stub my toe on the furniture or extreme frustration like if I nearly break my neck tripping over the cat. So it's more of a reflex action than premeditated. I know, that's no excuse. But I never use curse words just for the sake of using them like people who use the F word as an adjective at least once in every sentence during a normal conversation. In addition to a moral failing it shows a lack of communication skills and imagination.

But if given the choice I would rather hear someone use every vile swear word in the book than to use the name of our Lord as a form of profanity.

[Solya]

While I sometimes do swear, I try not to make a habit out of it. They slip out of my mouth sometimes when something bad happens which I have no other response to, but lately it's been getting a lot better and I try to consciously stop them from slipping into my mind just like that.

However, recently I have had a spot of trouble concerning one of the kids I work with. He uses swearwords that're only known to adults, while he is only seven years old, and told me that his parents use these kind of words in his presence. He knows I disapprove of swearing and that people really should not swear, but on the other hand his parents have no such qualms about using these words in front of him. He told me he finds it unfair that they can use them while he cannot -- upon which I agreed with him -- and that he wishes they wouldn't use these swearwords anymore.

I have attempted to talk with his parents about this, but all I get in response is "we try to teach him that kids aren't allowed to do everything their parents do". I find this a very irresponsible attitude towards something their child uses frequently towards me and other children when he gets angry about something he has a hard time coping with. It's a pretty difficult situation to deal with, because I am firm in my stance that children his age should not swear but see that parents do nothing to discourage their child from it...

[inkspot]

That's really sad. His parents are taking a pretty immature and hypocritical attitude. But there's nothing you can do, Solya, except continue to reinforce for him that these are not nice words. Poor kid, imagine in what other ways his parents are modeling poor behavior and expecting him to behave differently. :(

And nice to see you here, lovely Solya!

[Jack of Blades]

As a person who believes (as it seems would many previous posters) that swearing is utterly disgusting, immature, and unnecessary, I'm wondering what some of you think about how to deal with people who swear excessively. It's one thing if the people are strangers you overhear in a restaurant, but how about people you live with? Both of my roommates at college consider themselves Christians, and yet surround themselves with ugly language. I've heard one person say that you just need to accept people for who they are, but this is really starting to wear on me. Any suggestions or just general opinions?

Just say "Please Ma'am/Sir, if you wouldn't mind stopping your swearing, or keeping it quiet it enough for yourselves to hear, I would appreciate that," or something like that, you know.


I was in a store once, and I don't stop my friends from swearing, as I'm not their boss, and I honestly don't care that they swear around me. But anyway, we were at the mall, and he was swearing a little too excessively even for my taste, and there was one of the store employees next to us, and he said to my friend in a firm, angry tone "Would you please watch your language!" as he glared at us.
While I know he was justified in telling him to stop, I don't think you should tell people to quit things with a tone like that. No one is perfect, but I think you get your point across better and more peacefully when you approach something calmly.

I'll be honest, I swear, not in excess. And I know Inkspot just got done saying how there's never a time for this language, but I (try with a lot of degree of success) use this language only with the guys, like at track practice or a pool game in a bar. But if there are older people around, or younger children that could possibly be around me, I never swear, and that's a fact.


I have a very lenient view on things like swearing, I know how to act before a king, and I can act like a peasent if I feel like it, shoot me.

[Truman]

And I know Inkspot just got done saying how there's never a time for this language, but I (try with a lot of degree of success) use this language only with the guys, like at track practice or a pool game in a bar.
That's probably why I don't have too many friends... I'm not really "one of the guys." I hate it when guys think it's "normal" or "ok" to swear constantly, or to hear someone cursing and not mind at all... I think I belong in the 19th century America rather than now, or else the 40s. It's rare to find any public decency left in the country as far as what people's mouths are prone to do nowdays.

[MRW]

Here's something I don't understand -- why is swearing OK only with certain people? I'm not talking about refraining in front of a specific friend who finds it offensive (that's just being polite), I'm talking blanket statements and situations. "I only swear with the guys" or "Not in front of kids/my parents/etc." It seems to me that it's either OK or it isn't. If it's not something you want your children to learn to say, then it seems to me that subconsciously you do think it's wrong on some level. (General "you," not aimed at anyone specific.)

I'm sure this is somewhat just a cultural thing, as swearing is considered to be somewhat crass, even if it's not considered "wrong." But is that just in certain places? Is it cultural, like the actual words being used?

I find it highly amusing (and a bit hypocrytical) that a British character on a US television show can swear up a storm using words and gestures that come from Britain, but American words/gestures of a similar calibre would be sensored. And the TV show Firefly -- all of the "severe" swearing was translated into Mandarin so that Joss could still have the characters swear without worrying about being sensored. Sure, the majority of the US doesn't speak Mandarin, but I'm sure some of them do, so for people who understand the language, Firefly has a lot more swearing than the rest of us recognize. Which I really don't get. It's all the same to me.

[inkspot]

Here's something I don't understand -- why is swearing OK only with certain people? I'm not talking about refraining in front of a specific friend who finds it offensive (that's just being polite), I'm talking blanket statements and situations. "I only swear with the guys" or "Not in front of kids/my parents/etc." It seems to me that it's either OK or it isn't. If it's not something you want your children to learn to say, then it seems to me that subconsciously you do think it's wrong on some level.

This is a good question. Does anyone have a good answer? For me if something is inappropriate for children, then it's just inappropriate. That's why I thought Solya's story was sad -- the parents' only response when Solya asked them to help their child not swear was to tell him adults are allowed to do some things children aren't allowed to do ... but if swearing is wrong for him, why isn't it wrong for them? It's a bit hypocritical to say swearing is OK, "sometimes."

However, people make this same kind of distinction often in other ways. Parents will watch films they wouldn't let their children watch. And people defend the murder of unborn babies when they would never defend anyone's murdering their own children. I cannot quite see the logic here.

[Lila]

In response to your question, MRW, I don't think that swearing is "OK" with anybody. It may affect certain people more than others, but that doesn't justify the use of language that God specifically instructed us not to use.


Parents will watch films they wouldn't let their children watch.

Well, I think that's pretty reasonable... I mean, you wouldn't let a young child watch The Passion, would you? But it's not inappropriate for adults who can handle blood... and gore... and violence... :eek: (I only saw part of that film, but it was very difficult for me to stomach)

[MRW]

Well, censoring films for the kids makes a bit more sense to me because psychologically, they may not be developed enough to handle those images without experiencing trauma. But learning to swear as a child is not traumatic -- just socially inappropriate.

It's a bit hypocritical to say swearing is OK, "sometimes."
That's sort of my feeling too. As I said before, I personally don't see anything wrong with swearing. But I try not to do it in front of my parents -- not because I think it's less appropriate to swear in front of them than in front of my friends, but because I'm trying not to do something they find offensive. But, to me, it doesn't matter who you're with -- the words still mean the same thing, and either they're wrong to say or they're not.

[inkspot]

I don't believe it's necessary for adults to watch shocking violence or raunchy films, actually. I didn't see The Passion ... so I don't really get why adults have to have more violent or explicit entertainment than children. Be that as it may: MRW, it seems to me you're falling into the same trap if you swear in front of everyone except your parents. If it's something you're embarrassed to do in front of them, doesn't that mean, at some level, you know it's the wrong thing to do? If your parents were offended by something that really had no offensive value, say, eating lettuce, would you refrain from eating salads around them? In that case, the problem would really be theirs, not yours, so why should you refrain?

[Fantasma]

I hate swearing. Hate it. I've never swore in my life, as far as I can remember, and I don't plan to either. Usually when someone near me swears, I glare at them, and I hope they notice it, too.

As for blasphemy, I hate that even more. I also consider 'gosh', 'goodness', etc, to be blasphemy because obviously you meant to say it, right?

[Truman]

I don't believe it's necessary for adults to watch shocking violence or raunchy films, actually. I didn't see The Passion ... so I don't really get why adults have to have more violent or explicit entertainment than children.
I think Gibson was trying to capture the pain Christ suffered. So many times it's been ignored or "implied" in some way in the movies, but never shown. To me, "The Passion" makes me love Jesus even more, knowing that He went through that for undeserving sinners. So in some ways, you've gotta be shown the "ugly stuff" to truly understand certain things, like what Spielberg did with "Schindler's List."
As for blasphemy, I hate that even more. I also consider 'gosh', 'goodness', etc, to be blasphemy because obviously you meant to say it, right?
...No, I don't think so. I have a friend (14 yo) who substitutes "Oh my goodness" for "Oh my sinfulness," because he thinks the other phrase "proclaims self-righteousness." That, to me, is an incredibly foolish thought. :rolleyes: He also says such phrases as "Oh my gosh" and "geez" are deformations of God's name. That's like saying the word "gay" is a deformation of the word "joy." It's archaic, and doesn't mean what it meant way back when. :rolleyes:

I agree "Oh my God" is taken lightly many times, but is blasphemy only when taken lightly (which is usually most of the time). It could be said if it was really meant. Like I could say, "Oh my God" when I learn of the World Trade Center bombings, because I am indeed crying out to God, which isn't wrong.

[Jack of Blades]

I think Gibson was trying to capture the pain Christ suffered. So many times it's been ignored or "implied" in some way in the movies, but never shown. To me, "The Passion" makes me love Jesus even more, knowing that He went through that for undeserving sinners. So in some ways, you've gotta be shown the "ugly stuff" to truly understand certain things, like what Spielberg did with "Schindler's List."

...No, I don't think so. I have a friend (14 yo) who substitutes "Oh my goodness" for "Oh my sinfulness," because he thinks the other phrase "proclaims self-righteousness." That, to me, is an incredibly foolish thought. :rolleyes: He also says such phrases as "Oh my gosh" and "geez" are deformations of God's name. That's like saying the word "gay" is a deformation of the word "joy." It's archaic, and doesn't mean what it meant way back when. :rolleyes:


Yeah, that's what I tell people when they say The Passion was too violent. It was supposed to be that way, and I don't know the actual time of those few scenes, but it lasts forever, I cry at that movie.

And before someone comes in here crying out at the top of their lungs that words never lose their meaning, understand that words were created so that we could communicate, it started with little noises to mean "water", "buffalo", "waterbuffalo". Words do, in fact, change their meaning over time. Words don't define man, man defines words.

[Neevil]

I think that if someone can restrain themselves from swearing in certain situations, such as in front of children, it shows they do have the power of self-control. I don't think there is any reason to prevent them from censoring their language in other places. I mean, if you can stop yourself from swearing when talking to some people, you ought to be able to stop yourself from cursing in front of other people as well.

I was also wondering about how culture affects swearing. I used to live in New Jersey, but a few years ago I moved to North Carolina. Every time I go back to NJ, I keep noticing little differences with the way people behave there, I guess because I have gotten used to living in NC. Last time, I definately noticed people cursing a lot more. Here in NC, I hear kids in school cuss sometimes, but rarely in other settings like church, or with adults, children, etc. I also almost never hear adults curse, at least not in a professional setting. But when I was in NJ a couple months ago, man were my ears burning... It just seemed like swearing was more accepted, among teens and adults, even in my Christian friends and family members, and even in professional settings.

Having control over your mouth is very important. I think it shows how much self-control you have, and also indicates what you are really thinking. I recently realized how much I notice when people do not curse. It really can be an indicator of a person's control over other aspects of their lives. Your words do carry a large effect on others, and I think it is important to use them in a positive way.

[gogogoff]

Well as a member of the LDS faith, we are advised to not swear, and I try to never swear, question do others consider "Hell" a swear word ?

[Ephinie]

Well as a member of the LDS faith, we are advised to not swear, and I try to never swear, question do others consider "Hell" a swear word ?
I think usage determines whether or not hell is a swear word. Are you referring to the place, or are you using it as an exclamation (What the ....!?) Of course, using it as the place can also be considered swearing in instances such as when you tell someone to go there.

[rainyday]

what about bloody? is that bad? i say that somtimes :confused:

[alexandrareedy-donaldson]

i tend to not consider bloody bad... but maybe it is??
what about when you make up words to use instead of swearing?
does that mean that you are technicaly swearing??

should i stop saying fudge monkeys??

[PrinceOfTheWest]

In cultures where it's used, "bloody" originally referred to Christ's blood. In older literature you still see phrases like "God's blood, madam, do you intend..." Using the term meant taking something sacred and using it for common purposes.

Curiously enough, the quaint colloquialism "gadzooks!" has similar derivation. It originally meant "God's hooks" - i.e. a coarse reference to the nails which held Christ to the Cross. That one has drifted so far from the original usage that nobody could be held responsible for misusing it simply because they wouldn't know what they were saying.

[alexandrareedy-donaldson]

yes but does that mean i can't say fudge monkeys??

[inkspot]

You can say whatever you want.

If you are of the school that any expression of that kind is intended as a swear word, then you would technically be swearing if you are using the words in place of a curse word. you would have the same intent as swearing.

If you are bound to say something swear-oriented in conversation, it would be better on other people's ears if it's a nonsense word like that. But for your own emotional and spiritual well being, it might be better not to use such exclamations at all?

[alexandrareedy-donaldson]

very well put..

[gogogoff]

I think usage determines whether or not hell is a swear word. Are you referring to the place, or are you using it as an exclamation (What the ....!?) Of course, using it as the place can also be considered swearing in instances such as when you tell someone to go there.



Like what the hell, not saying go to hell.

[Truman]

^ One of the few swear words I do use. :rolleyes: Not "Go to Hell," just "What the--"

I consider "Go to hell" to be a curse, but I can't understand why I do. No one considers "What in heavens name..." to be a curse, but you're just swappin' eternal places. Hell is bad and Heaven is good? I mean, isn't that a little circular? There's no difference, really.

[inkspot]

What does it mean, exactly, "What the ****"? I can't figure out whether it is swearing unless I know what it's supposed to mean. People use other nouns at the end there, too.

But, yah, I don't like to hear people say "What the H***" because it's accepted as swearing, only I don't know, now, what it means, exactly.

[gogogoff]

What does it mean, exactly, "What the ****"? I can't figure out whether it is swearing unless I know what it's supposed to mean. People use other nouns at the end there, too.

But, yah, I don't like to hear people say "What the H***" because it's accepted as swearing, only I don't know, now, what it means, exactly.

OK thanks, for the input.

[PuzzleGlum]

What does it mean, exactly, "What the ****"? I can't figure out whether it is swearing unless I know what it's supposed to mean. People use other nouns at the end there, too.

I know what he means, because I sometimes say it too. The phrase is "What the--" and only "What the--". No third word intended. I nethier say nor think any word to complete this phrase.

[Driad54]

Ahhh sailors talk. Good for the soul.

[MRW]

MRW, it seems to me you're falling into the same trap if you swear in front of everyone except your parents. If it's something you're embarrassed to do in front of them, doesn't that mean, at some level, you know it's the wrong thing to do? If your parents were offended by something that really had no offensive value, say, eating lettuce, would you refrain from eating salads around them? In that case, the problem would really be theirs, not yours, so why should you refrain?
Simply: because they've asked me not to do it around them. I'm trying to be respectful, even though I disagree with them.

I don't see this as the same situation I was asking about earlier, because the mindset is different. My mindset is: "It's not wrong, but I won't do it around X,Y, and Z because they don't like it." The mindset I don't understand is, "It's OK with X and Y, but wrong around Z, A, and B."

[Jack of Blades]

Simply: because they've asked me not to do it around them. I'm trying to be respectful, even though I disagree with them.

I don't see this as the same situation I was asking about earlier, because the mindset is different. My mindset is: "It's not wrong, but I won't do it around X,Y, and Z because they don't like it." The mindset I don't understand is, "It's OK with X and Y, but wrong around Z, A, and B."

Aha! Finally someone who shares my opinion, even though your equation is slightly confusing.
I think it's more of a matter of manners, I mean, you wouldn't belch and whatnot in front of other people, you wouldn't swear in front of everyone.


I really believe that swearing has little to no corruptive properties.
When God said to not put a curse on someone, I believe he meant saying something or doing something that will hurt the person in some way in the future. Don't sabotage a person, if you will.


I suppose it is a sin when you're a minor, and your parents say not to swear. But once you reach the age of adulthood, I really see nothing wrong with it. As long as you don't swear in excess, too much of anything is bad.


What I want to know, is when swearing became evil? Don't a lot of these words exist so that there is something to say when you get angry?

[Truman]

I suppose it is a sin when you're a minor, and your parents say not to swear. But once you reach the age of adulthood, I really see nothing wrong with it. As long as you don't swear in excess, too much of anything is bad.
Huh?

That's like saying,
"We have a beautiful sirloin steak on the menu, sir, along with a crisp baked potatoe and brussel sprouts bathing in Hollandaise sauce. There's just one catch, we have a tiny, miniscule speck of dog excrement inserted into the steak. I hope you don't mind."
:rolleyes: Even a little of anything is still wrong, just like a "little bit of sin." Same thing with "stupid sins." "Oh, that was such a dumb sin." Come on, is there such a thing as an "intelligent sin"? That's why I still feel guilty whenever I swear. Though it may hardly be so, "a little bit of poop makes all the difference." :rolleyes:

[Jack of Blades]

:rolleyes: Even a little of anything is still wrong, just like a "little bit of sin." Same thing with "stupid sins." "Oh, that was such a dumb sin." Come on, is there such a thing as an "intelligent sin"? That's why I still feel guilty whenever I swear. Though it may hardly be so, "a little bit of poop makes all the difference." :rolleyes:

When did it become a sin? Where in the Bible does it say "don't use bad words". It says obey "Children obey your parents". I believe it's only a sin if your parents are against it, but when you're an adult, you're your own man/woman and it's not wrong for you do swear anymore.

[Truman]

When did it become a sin? Where in the Bible does it say "don't use bad words". It says obey "Children obey your parents". I believe it's only a sin if your parents are against it, but when you're an adult, you're your own man/woman and it's not wrong for you do swear anymore.
Come on. You can take that logic a bit further in saying when you're "on your own," you can have as many one-night stands as you wish, because your parents aren't your superiors anymore.

As for scripture, PotW and I already posted Ephesians 5:3-5 and Matthew 12:36 as examples. Besides as I've said before, swearing is just a foolish way of showing your ignorance of proper vocabulary. It's like proclaiming to the world: "I'm a fool."

[Jack of Blades]

Come on. You can take that logic a bit further in saying when you're "on your own," you can have as many one-night stands as you wish, because your parents aren't your superiors anymore.

As for scripture, PotW and I already posted Ephesians 5:3-5 and Matthew 12:36 as examples. Besides as I've said before, swearing is just a foolish way of showing your ignorance of proper vocabulary. It's like proclaiming to the world: "I'm a fool."

No, you can't. And please quit taking me out of context, I'm not saying that when you get to the age of adulthood you're allowed to murder people and have sex as much as you want. I'm saying that things that your parents told you not to do when you were a CHILD do not all apply to you when you are an ADULT.

I think that the Bible can be interpreted in many ways, including those two scriptures. As for me, I say there are times when it's fine to swear, and times when it is definetly NOT appropriate to swear.

[Truman]

And what are those times, Jack?

[Jack of Blades]

And what are those times, Jack?

Times when something you've worked very hard for collapses before your eyes.
Times when you body is broken and all you feel is pain.
There are plenty of times.

[Truman]

Times when something you've worked very hard for collapses before your eyes.
Times when you body is broken and all you feel is pain.
There are plenty of times.
Times when you get in a car accident? I got in one today; I didn't swear. It's all based on control. You can control yourself not to swear, it's not like a "given" for anyone.

[Doffen]

Times when you get in a car accident? I got in one today; I didn't swear. It's all based on control. You can control yourself not to swear, it's not like a "given" for anyone.

There are different "types" of swearing. Generaly I agree with you that the best way to make a fool out of yourself is cursing in public. Now I don't swear in English, though in Norwegian, swearing are "power" words. They display strong emotional feelings. Like when you bump your toe into a desk or something, it doesn't just hurt like "ouch", it hurts like "****" ... In those cases, I don't think cursing should be taken to seriously. It's a way of letting out frustration, and it's better to get it out then holding it in.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

A question on the last part of your post, Doffen: while it's certainly true that a strong verbal response is expectable and understandable under stressful circumstances, why must that response consist of offensive language? And in what way is it "better" to "get it out" than "holding it in"? In what way would it be harmful to simply say nothing?

[Truman]

If someone has to "let go" at all to convey his emotions through swearing, then that person is limited. You shouldn't have to let loose at all. What if someone didn't know any swear words, only yelling? By the "let loose" logic you could say he'd be bottled up for God knows how long.

As I said before, it's about control.

[Doffen]

A question on the last part of your post, Doffen: while it's certainly true that a strong verbal response is expectable and understandable under stressful circumstances, why must that response consist of offensive language? And in what way is it "better" to "get it out" than "holding it in"? In what way would it be harmful to simply say nothing?

I don't have a logical explanation for that. We don't speak the same language, though I think it's the same thing in our languages that curse words are stronger and has a stronger meaning to it then normal words. Sometimes "oh bugger" simply isn't strong enough to share the feeling you have with others (or yourself) ... Though I'd conclude "oh bugger" to be a curse word aswell. It's the same as other curse words, it's a way to explain feelings with words.

Feelings is something you shouldn't hold in. It's like trying to hold your tears in a funeral. You'd become a ticking bomb, eventually.

Truman, what do you mean by "limited"..?

[Truman]

Feelings is something you shouldn't hold in. It's like trying to hold your tears in a funeral. You'd become a ticking bomb, eventually.
Holding in the F word from stuff like... stubbing your toe or slamming your hand in a door is like holding in tears at a funeral? I'm sorry... I don't follow that logic at all.

Truman, what do you mean by "limited"..?
I mean the person has no better way to convey his emotions. If swearing is your only way of dealing with a situation you can't fix, then you're (by definition) restricted to it emotionally... especially when it comes to vocabulary.

EDIT: I'm reminded of Shahrukh Khan from "Kuch Kuch Hota Hai" (Bollywood film) where, preluding any difficult decision he makes, he says, "S**t," which I find rather hilarious since that's all he can do or say. :rolleyes:

[Doffen]

Holding in the F word from stuff like... stubbing your toe or slamming your hand in a door is like holding in tears at a funeral? I'm sorry... I don't follow that logic at all.

Yeah, I kinda work with examples here. I could also throw in stuff like "You're the first to a car accident and all that your eyes catches are blood and guts everywhere" ... Would it be so bad if you out of desperation and stress say the F word?


I mean the person has no better way to convey his emotions. If swearing is your only way of dealing with a situation you can't fix, then you're (by definition) restricted to it emotionally... especially when it comes to vocabulary.

It doesn't have to say swearing is your ONLY way of dealing with a situation. Though partly I agree with you. I don't swear at all, though when it comes to stuff like hurts really bad in a instant and it's not called for (This is another example), I tend to slip a word. That's not a limitation to someone's vocabulary. Any word in that situation would be a limitation to someones vocabulary, following that logic.

[Truman]

Yeah, I kinda work with examples here. I could also throw in stuff like "You're the first to a car accident and all that your eyes catches are blood and guts everywhere" ... Would it be so bad if you out of desperation and stress say the F word?
Oh, I'm sure the first thing he'll think to do is say the F word. :rolleyes:
It doesn't have to say swearing is your ONLY way of dealing with a situation. Though partly I agree with you. I don't swear at all, though when it comes to stuff like hurts really bad in a instant and it's not called for (This is another example), I tend to slip a word. That's not a limitation to someone's vocabulary. Any word in that situation would be a limitation to someones vocabulary, following that logic.
You think about plays by Shakespeare, who could have very well had characters say "F this" and "F that" when angered or saddened, but he didn't (though he did hint to it in Henry V subtly).

But yes, it would be a limitation because their words are restricted to four letters in most cases. "F**k," "S**t," "Hell," "D**n," "C**t"... is that all someone can use? Or "B***h," or "B*****d"? Having only the capacity to utter words such as these in any hard situation is meaningless, as well as foolish. Uttering any other word wouldn't be limiting at all, since you've got the whole English language at your fingertips. :rolleyes: Limiting yourself to a small list of only seven words is by definition, a vocabularic restriction.

Bill Maher says religion is a mental illness. I say swearing is a mental illness... In this case, Bill Maher needs medical attention. ;)

[Darth Sparhawk]

Personally I swear sometimes and I think that it is no big deal, although I prefer not to do it in front of other people, as I think that it is quite rude, a bit like farting. I do not believe it to be a sin, however, just a sign of manners.

[Jack of Blades]

You think about plays by Shakespeare, who could have very well had characters say "F this" and "F that" when angered or saddened, but he didn't (though he did hint to it in Henry V subtly).

But yes, it would be a limitation because their words are restricted to four letters in most cases. "F**k," "S**t," "Hell," "D**n," "C**t"... is that all someone can use? Or "B***h," or "B*****d"? Having only the capacity to utter words such as these in any hard situation is meaningless, as well as foolish. Uttering any other word wouldn't be limiting at all, since you've got the whole English language at your fingertips. :rolleyes: Limiting yourself to a small list of only seven words is by definition, a vocabularic restriction.

Bill Maher says religion is a mental illness. I say swearing is a mental illness... In this case, Bill Maher needs medical attention. ;)

In Shakespeare's time, those words were used in different ways. Today they still mean the same things, but at some point they became "Bad" words. At that time, the F word was a verb for you know what, it still is except now it's considered a swear word. The D word, means to condemn someone to Hell, somewhere along the lines of history it became a swear word. The majority of those words weren't made to be swear words, it's just people who have made them swear words.

When you're at the point of a mental breakdown, broken bodies at your feet, screeching metal everywhere, you don't really have a lot of time to think about the words you're saying.

[Truman]

In Shakespeare's time, those words were used in different ways. Today they still mean the same things, but at some point they became "Bad" words. At that time, the F word was a verb for you know what, it still is except now it's considered a swear word. The D word, means to condemn someone to Hell, somewhere along the lines of history it became a swear word. The majority of those words weren't made to be swear words, it's just people who have made them swear words.
And you know why? Because they were overused, which is my entire point: limitation.

When you're at the point of a mental breakdown, broken bodies at your feet, screeching metal everywhere, you don't really have a lot of time to think about the words you're saying.
Is this where you set the standard? You supposedly know all about what people do or say during a car crash, with dead bodies in the car.

You say, "...you don't really have a lot of time to think about the words you're saying." Who's to judge whether the person has time to say anything at all? You've set the standard at "People (in general) swear when they're in a car accident with death involved, if not all people." I think this is false. Some people will, some won't. Most, in my opinion, will not have time to think to say anything, and if some do, who's to say the first thing that pops into their brain is "Oh f**k"? There's too vast a number of fatal car accidents to assume anything; you're making a hasty generalization.

Plus, I've noticed how you and Doffen have both brought the argument to "fatalities," saying that somehow, there's some sort of "absolution" for cursing out when something incredibly terrible happens. It had to come to the "death" subject before any sympathetic view of swearing could be derived. Why? Normally the swearing doesn't happen around a fatal moment; that's a myth, just as "abortion for the mother's safety" is practically never the reason why it's done, statistically speaking. And even when someone dies, saying something like, "Oh d**n" would be meaningless... In fact, I've never heard of cursing after someone dies. People just don't instinctively do that, unless you're Al Pacino from "Scarface." :rolleyes:

Even when you watch a movie and someone dies, would you think it appropriate if the person by the dead one's side said something like, "Oh hell"? I don't think so. It'd sound kind of weird, as well as undramatic. I've read "The Screenwriter's Bible"; it's fundamentally "wrong" to have someone swear after seeing someone die, unless it's with a large crowd being massacred or something. ;)

[Doffen]

Plus, I've noticed how you and Doffen have both brought the argument to "fatalities," saying that somehow, there's some sort of "absolution" for cursing out when something incredibly terrible happens. It had to come to the "death" subject before any sympathetic view of swearing could be derived. Why? Normally the swearing doesn't happen around a fatal moment; that's a myth, just as "abortion for the mother's safety" is practically never the reason why it's done, statistically speaking. And even when someone dies, saying something like, "Oh d**n" would be meaningless... In fact, I've never heard of cursing after someone dies. People just don't instinctively do that, unless you're Al Pacino from "Scarface." :rolleyes:


The point is not about fatalities. It's about moments that are dramatic, hysterical and so forth. The examples (that included fatalities) are examples that are over-dramatized so that people will understand them. I'm talking about reflexes and reactions to certain moments, not what people say when someone dies around them. I don't think the guy who slammed his toe (one of my examples) into a desk necessarily died.

Don't hang yourself up in the example. Instead see the meaning in it and add it to your arguments, destroy my argument and prove me wrong (I might aswell be, I just haven't realized it. That happens alot ;) ).

And you know why? Because they were overused, which is my entire point: limitation.

Wait, so what you say is that every word that is "overused" are words that shouldn't be used because they make you limited? Wouldn't NOT using a word make you limited? Wouldn't that shorten your vocabulary instead of strenghtening it..?

Still, I have to say we're on the same side. I don't think that swearing is something nice, and I practicly never swear. Though as with Driad, there are sometimes when I cannot help but think of a bad word when something happens. That does not make me limited, neither does it make me limited to utter it out loud. Using that logic, a kid that screams during a horror movie would be limited for following a natural reaction. A swearing word is something dramatic and over-sensitive. Sometimes that's just how you feel.

[Driad54]

I've been in numerous accidents. Well, three at the least. The one thing I can remember is that I thought a swear word right before it happened.

I agree, when something intense is about to happen, or has just happened, the first thing that pops into mine is to say a curse word. It's just circumstance. I don't open up every conversation with a swear word nor do I "embellish" conversations with swear words, they just happen.

It's really not that big of a deal. Practice restraint, and use judgement for the time and a place policy, and you're fine.

[Truman]

The point is not about fatalities. It's about moments that are dramatic, hysterical and so forth. The examples (that included fatalities) are examples that are over-dramatized so that people will understand them. I'm talking about reflexes and reactions to certain moments, not what people say when someone dies around them. I don't think the guy who slammed his toe (one of my examples) into a desk necessarily died.
See, now I completely understand your point. I thought you meant just a general dramatic moment, not necessarily a sudden event or jolt of pain. Although I still think a car crash isn't a good example, because a car crash is too much information. A simple event like slamming a hammer on your hand... yes, I can see your point. But still, control can be achieved... I've gotta work on that myself. :rolleyes:
Don't hang yourself up in the example. Instead see the meaning in it and add it to your arguments, destroy my argument and prove me wrong (I might aswell be, I just haven't realized it. That happens alot ;) ).
That's been happening with me quite a few times here, with D&D, which Narnia books have Christian elements... Yeah, I've been defeated. :o ...However, if the Creation/Evolution thread were still up I would've replied to your example from Infidels. ;) (I've debated the admin from that website before, so it's no surprise to me when I see what people he brings in to write articles.)
Wait, so what you say is that every word that is "overused" are words that shouldn't be used because they make you limited? Wouldn't NOT using a word make you limited? Wouldn't that shorten your vocabulary instead of strenghtening it..?
No, that's not what I meant. I meant the words are overused, as in not only are they unsuitable words, but the fact that they're the only curses available to use (besides maybe "bloody" or "bumcake" or whatever British vulgar terms you could bring out) stands to point they're limiting.

There are a vast number of other, more suitable words to use. There are about 10 or 15 words available for cursing. If that's all the person can say, as opposed to the rest of the English language, then he is indeed bound to them. Only an uneducated fool (like the guy in Kuch Kuch) would use a curse every time something big happens. There are millions of other words. Why limit yourself to a couple?
Still, I have to say we're on the same side. I don't think that swearing is something nice, and I practicly never swear. Though as with Driad, there are sometimes when I cannot help but think of a bad word when something happens. That does not make me limited, neither does it make me limited to utter it out loud. Using that logic, a kid that screams during a horror movie would be limited for following a natural reaction. A swearing word is something dramatic and over-sensitive. Sometimes that's just how you feel.
You're not the type of person I'm referring to. I'm talking about people who just swear like it's "the norm." I'm glad you at least realize swearing is uncouth. Sure, words may pop out occasionally, but it's still a matter of self-control. There's an account I read of a dinner George Washington had with friends (maybe fellow soldiers, I forgot exactly who). One guy uttered a curse word and Washington was reported to "drop his silverware" and say, "I thought we were all gentlemen." The man who swore immediately shut up after that.

[inkspot]

Glad you all settled this yourselves. :)

My pastor says when you get squeezed, what's inside comes out. I like to think that when I get squeezed, what comes out isn't a curse word.

[Doffen]

See, now I completely understand your point. I thought you meant just a general dramatic moment, not necessarily a sudden event or jolt of pain. Although I still think a car crash isn't a good example, because a car crash is too much information. A simple event like slamming a hammer on your hand... yes, I can see your point. But still, control can be achieved... I've gotta work on that myself.

Glad you took it! =) ... I do agree with you that it's all about self-control. Though it also has something to do with how dangerous you see it to say a curse at all. In a way, it's very rude to squeeze out a curse when someone listens, because you don't know how people will react to it. In another direction, I think it's wrong to ban words and make "intolerable" to hear. In a way I see that as censorship, and that's not something I like. ^^

That's been happening with me quite a few times here, with D&D, which Narnia books have Christian elements... Yeah, I've been defeated. ...However, if the Creation/Evolution thread were still up I would've replied to your example from Infidels. (I've debated the admin from that website before, so it's no surprise to me when I see what people he brings in to write articles.)

Oh yeah I loose debates all the time without even realizing it. And when I realize it I probably will be way to proud to admit I was wrong ;) ... That's a basic trap many people go in ^^ ... I'm still open for a evolution/creation debate (Though not in this thread), so feel free to smack a PM in my face ;)

No, that's not what I meant. I meant the words are overused, as in not only are they unsuitable words, but the fact that they're the only curses available to use (besides maybe "bloody" or "bumcake" or whatever British vulgar terms you could bring out) stands to point they're limiting.

You mean the words has been used to much they've lost their meaning, and that makes them "limited"? In that sence, I agree with you. Curse words often has no point other then "strenghtening" your other words (like adding a curse word behind "idiot" to make "idiot" even stronger) or showing a strong emotion (Like when you're trying to steal a car and a dog comes running after you; just to keep up the good examples :p). Often, for some people, cursing makes them "cooler" and more respected... Well, not in my mind, but some people are so much tougher then me you know, and they curse, all of them (:rolleyes:)!

There are a vast number of other, more suitable words to use. There are about 10 or 15 words available for cursing. If that's all the person can say, as opposed to the rest of the English language, then he is indeed bound to them. Only an uneducated fool (like the guy in Kuch Kuch) would use a curse every time something big happens. There are millions of other words. Why limit yourself to a couple?

Using a curse doesn't mean you limit yourself to them. It means that you are taking the use of curse words, not excluding other words. I know a dude who when talking, uses curse words to finish his sentences. It's not just remarkable hysterical that he does this, but I think he fits into your argument. That person is limited in that sence you're talking about (And guess who's problems getting a job)

There's an account I read of a dinner George Washington had with friends (maybe fellow soldiers, I forgot exactly who). One guy uttered a curse word and Washington was reported to "drop his silverware" and say, "I thought we were all gentlemen." The man who swore immediately shut up after that.

George Washington was the first president of the US, right? ... Washington kinda devastated the guy, lol.. Poor bloke ...



My pastor says when you get squeezed, what's inside comes out. I like to think that when I get squeezed, what comes out isn't a curse word.

I've been squeezed a few times, most likely a curse word won't pop out, though it has happened, I'm afraid.