Bree

[Puzzle dear]

I read a book called Narnia for Dummies and it decribes Bree's faults. I thought that doesn't sound like Bree. I heard the Focus on the Family Radio Theater production of the horse and his boy and I've read the book The Horse and his Boy, and Bree didn't sound like what the Narnia for Dummies book makes him out to be. The NFD book makes him sound like a condescending jerk. I know Bree can be full of himself sometimes but he's not a snob.

[elfjad]

I guess the complexity of Bree's character is simply too great for Dummies!

[Puzzle dear]

What do you mean?

[elfjad]

It was a strange joke of mine. I think Bree has the most to change in order to suit Narnia and also starts doubting his intentions. However, it seems to be Bree that has the greater ambition to go to Narnia. Perhaps the NfD thought that Bree was just dawdling and was worrying over nothing in a stupid fashion.

[Puzzle dear]

Yeah, like I said Bree can be full of himself, but he's not a bad horse right?

[elfjad]

Wow that was a quick reply - yeah, I agree. Happy New Year!

[Puzzle dear]

Oh there's that 5, or is it 6, hour time difference between the U.K and the U.S, Happy New Year!

[DeplorableWord]

I read a book called Narnia for Dummies and it decribes Bree's faults. I thought that doesn't sound like Bree. I heard the Focus on the Family Radio Theater production of the horse and his boy and I've read the book The Horse and his Boy, and Bree didn't sound like what the Narnia for Dummies book makes him out to be. The NFD book makes him sound like a condescending jerk. I know Bree can be full of himself sometimes but he's not a snob.


Actually, (as much as I love Bree) throughout the whole book, Bree is rather mean and patronizes Shasta a lot esp. around Aravis. Probably what the NfD book was trying to say was just the over-all impression that Bree first gives the reader before Aslan talks to him in chapter 14- "How Bree Became a Wiser Horse."

But don't get me wrong... I LOVE BREE to death! :D

[Rhyanidd]

I knew there was a reason I was mad that they made a NfD book, but I dont think Bree is bad, I mean yeah he is mean but hes got his faults, we all do at times we all do stuff and our mean, besides hes probably dealing with guilt, I mean his mom told him 'dont leave Narnia' and he did and he ended up with a jerk for a master, so wouldnt you feel guilty?? I tend to take out guilt and frustration in anger, its wrong but thats the way I tend to deal with it, (dont worry I am trying to quit), so maybe Bree handles it the same way...

[HM High King Peter]

I think he means that someone not really involved with Narnia's characters wouldn't understand Bree. Bree is pushy and protective...not just because he himself wants to get back to Narnia, but because he recognizes Shasta as a Narnian or Archenlander and knows that it is important to save him from the Tisroc's people. Bree is an agent of God (Aslan) in saving the life of the crown prince of Archenland. A dummies book would never admit that!

[Corin Thunder-Fist]

Yeah, they definately missed on Bree in that NFD.

A bit narcissistic, but I find that the fault of his Calormene upbringing. Being that he was a talking horse and therefor smarter than all the dumb horses in his land, he knew that he had to outperform them to get better treatment. He learned what he needed to learn and put himself in a situation to be the warhorse for a powerful Tarkhan.

He got short with Shasta about the matter of Aravis being promised for marriage at such a young age, but that's the only incident I can remember where Bree didn't treat Shasta affectionately. Lewis described Bree being very patient with Shasta when teaching him how to ride, describing him as a good teacher. Bree needed Shasta to escape, but I wouldn't say that he was using him...I think he also had Shasta's well being in mind. He didn't want Shasta to be a slave of his Tarkhan, which is how the proposal for their escape came about.

I think the whole bit about him being nervous at entering Narnia after growing up his whole life in Calormene was understandable, he wanted to look his best, he didn't want to look or act like one of the dumb horses he'd been raised with.

How you could read that book and reach the conclusion that Bree is a jerk is beyond me. Maybe that's why they call it Narnia for Dummies?

[Puzzle dear]

I didn't say Bree was a jerk, in fact I said I disagreed with the NFD book a lot. We all know Bree can be a bit full of himself sometimes but he's not a condescending bully.

PS I like using that term "full of himself" it's just so cool sounding. :cool:

[Corin Thunder-Fist]

I didn't say Bree was a jerk, in fact I said I disagreed with the NFD book a lot. We all know Bree can be a bit full of himself sometimes but he's not a condescending bully.

PS I like using that term "full of himself" it's just so cool sounding. :cool:


I was speaking about the writers of that Narnia for Dummies book, not you. Since they came to that conclusion after supposedly reading the book.

[Puzzle dear]

Oh sorry, I misunderstood.

[Puzzle dear]

I think he means that someone not really involved with Narnia's characters wouldn't understand Bree. Bree is pushy and protective...not just because he himself wants to get back to Narnia, but because he recognizes Shasta as a Narnian or Archenlander and knows that it is important to save him from the Tisroc's people. Bree is an agent of God (Aslan) in saving the life of the crown prince of Archenland. A dummies book would never admit that!
But Bree didn't know that Shasta was Prince Cor.

[DeplorableWord]

I don't think that Corin Thunder- Fist is speaking directly to you, just to the main public! :) Ya, I agree that Bree really isn't a "mean" guy but yes, he can be stuck- up. :D G2G

[Corin Thunder-Fist]

But Bree didn't know that Shasta was Prince Cor.

No, he didn't, but he did know that Shasta wasn't a Calormene (physically, it was hard not to notice). He didn't know that Shasta was royalty, but he knew that more likely than not he was from one of those northern countries...and was part of the reason he decided to ask Shasta to come with him.

[Corin Thunder-Fist]

I don't think that Corin Thunder- Fist is speaking directly to you, just to the main public! :) Ya, I agree that Bree really isn't a "mean" guy but yes, he can be stuck- up. :D G2G


Actually, that entire post was directed at the NFD's interpretation of Bree's character, not toward any of the poster's opinions in this thread.

[DeplorableWord]

Actually, that entire post was directed at the NFD's interpretation of Bree's character, not toward any of the poster's opinions in this thread.

Ha,ha.lol. :D

[CSLewisFan]

Actually, that entire post was directed at the NFD's interpretation of Bree's character, not toward any of the poster's opinions in this thread.

1. Few people here have read Narnia for Dummies because large and in charge fans, are not dummies when it come to Narnia. :)

2. Two because there are so many large and in charge fans on the dancing lawn, everyone wants to write what they think. Not about what someone else thinks ;)


Thus,

Bree is vain, a little selfish and a little cowardly.

However he changed. A changed fool is the wisest of all.

-Austin

[Puzzle dear]

Like someone else said, Bree is a hero. He saved the heir to the throne of Archenland, although he didn't know it at the time.

[Kitanna]

The NFD book makes him sound like a condescending jerk. I know Bree can be full of himself sometimes but he's not a snob.
After rereading Horse and his Boy I can't find much reason to defend Bree at the beginning. He is a jerk to Shasta and he can be quite condescending. Not intentionally, for the most part.
He puts down Shasta's riding skills, he insults Shasta infront of Aravis and Hwin, and he is full of himself. And in his ignorance he makes false statements about Aslan. Now Bree's ignorance and his vanity tend to blind him to his faults so it's hard to blame him for his behavior.
But like many heroes he changes for the better. However, looking at Bree's first few chapters he's not really the nicest talking beast. He does a few jerky things, but it doesn't make him a complete jerk.

[DeplorableWord]

After rereading Horse and his Boy I can't find much reason to defend Bree at the beginning. He is a jerk to Shasta and he can be quite condescending. Not intentionally, for the most part.
He puts down Shasta's riding skills, he insults Shasta infront of Aravis and Hwin, and he is full of himself. And in his ignorance he makes false statements about Aslan. Now Bree's ignorance and his vanity tend to blind him to his faults so it's hard to blame him for his behavior.
But like many heroes he changes for the better. However, looking at Bree's first few chapters he's not really the nicest talking beast. He does a few jerky things, but it doesn't make him a complete jerk.

Ya, I couldn't agree with ya more!!! :D

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Something that has already been pointed out on this thread by Corin (specifically post #11) is that Bree was brought up as a slave in Calormen. That has a lot of significance. Slaves have no value except their function - they are either useful, or they are valueless. I think that Lewis' depiction of the slave mentality in Calormen, from top to bottom, is one of the most subtle and powerful aspects of Horse. Remember King Lune's assessment of Calormen as a "land of slaves and tyrants" (a tyrant is what a slave becomes when he gains power over other slaves). A slave is one who is always in fear of losing his position, and this breeds a particular mentality: you tend to be harsh with others who are less competent than you, unforgiving with your own failures, and live in constant dread of those more powerful than you. In Bree's case, that made him condescending and superior to the inexperienced Shasta (as well as Hwin, though to a lesser degree), brutal with himself when he failed in the test at the Hermit's gate, and afraid to draw near Aslan when Hwin, who was humbler, walked right up to Him despite her fear. It also made him vain about his appearance and manners - slaves never want to be thought ill of. Actually, the Hermit's words to him after he announced his intention to return to Calormen were as accurate a prescription as you could hope to find.

Though I don't have the book Narnia for Dummies (and am unlikely to get it), it appears that they missed the subtlety of Lewis' point here.

[Puzzle dear]

I agree it was his time with the Calormenes that kinda made Bree who he is. Shasta was kind of a lousy rider before he met Bree. But I think Bree can be really nice once you get to know him. :)

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Certainly! Slavery is quite an ordeal, but you're quite correct in pointing out that it didn't completely destroy Bree's personality. He could be rude to Shasta, but he could also be understanding. He accepted the Hermit's correction and eventually made it to Narnia.