Are Fairies demonic???

[dayhawk68]

ok so this all started when my mom prohibits me from seeing the movie Twilight. Then she starts talking about the occult and then we wind up on fairies. I have done actual research (books and anthologies) about where the legends of fairies came from. Many of the first writings of fairies came from Angels, not the demonic schemeing of fairiys today. In fact my sources say Pixies are the troublemakers not fairies.

Here is an artical that my mom made me read:rolleyes:
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/newagefairies.htm


and so are fairies demonic???

[EveningStar]

Since there are no fairies, there are no demonic fairies. And if they are invented fantasy, they are either good or bad depending on who tells the tale, right?

[dayhawk68]

geese yeah thats what I thought too...but it SEEMS (to my mom) fairies are evil.

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

Twilight hasn't much to do with Faeries though. tithe, Valiant and Ironside are faerie books of the sort. and of course they are not demonic! Why, I am a faerie =D

[Solya]

Fae, for as far as they are real to humans, are creatures I consider to be neither good or evil. They are both. In a sense, they are the tricksters of the spirit realm... and they can be great helps, but also great pests. :) I'm very interested in the stories that revolve around fairies because I, to a certain extent, can identify with their character.

[dayhawk68]

Fae, for as far as they are real to humans, are creatures I consider to be neither good or evil. They are both. In a sense, they are the tricksters of the spirit realm... and they can be great helps, but also great pests. :) I'm very interested in the stories that revolve around fairies because I, to a certain extent, can identify with their character.

so can I. to me fairies and Fae (there are differences) are the mythological creatures I can identify best with.

[inkspot]

Do we think sometimes Christians take fantasy too seriously and declare everything "demonic" if it isn't in the Bible or a concrete fact? Years ago some preacher at my church was terrifying us kids with Dungeons and Dragons -- how he had witnessed or heard about those demonic playing pieces coming to life, screaming and throwing themselves into a fire.

This was 25, 30 years ago, and my friend Luke who was with me at church and I still laugh about that crazy man. Don't we think getting all het up about fantasy books and games just makes people who like these books and games think we are crazy?

An adult friend of my husband's told us he couldn't go the the Renaissance Festival because of all the demonic activity going on there! We had been going for years and seen a lot of sights, but no demonic activity. I guess I think, you find what you're looking for, you know?

if someone is looking for demons in faeries, she'll find them ...

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

dayhawk I now properly read your intro post. So without adding in anymore that Fae is the way to go for me,I've got a question for you to answer for yourself.
Why would you wind up and point your finger at a specific creature, saying that it is evil? Do you believe that a creature can be evil by nature? It's like saying amongst the sea creatures, the sharks are "evil". Just because of how they naturally. Yeah sharks can't change, but Fae is a whole different story.
__________________________________________________ ____
This isn't a question for people to throw themselves at me, this is merely something Dayhawk, I think, should think about.

[dayhawk68]

dayhawk I now properly read your intro post. So without adding in anymore that Fae is the way to go for me,I've got a question for you to answer for yourself.
Why would you wind up and point your finger at a specific creature, saying that it is evil? Do you believe that a creature can be evil by nature? It's like saying amongst the sea creatures, the sharks are "evil". Just because of how they naturally. Yeah sharks can't change, but Fae is a whole different story.
__________________________________________________ ____
This isn't a question for people to throw themselves at me, this is merely something Dayhawk, I think, should think about.

ha ha you say it as if I think they are! lol
its my mom who does.
I'll ask her that. lol

reading what the link says will also help this discussion further.

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

I thought your intro implied that you were. :)
I think it's a matter of your own opinion anyways. But I guess this is exactly what you want to know here. Other people's opinion?

[Copperfox]

Without attempting specific dogmas, guidelines or accusations: anything that tries to claim from you, for itself, the adoration and obedience which belong to God alone, either is demonic or might as well be. But I say this as one who is not ashamed of having played Dungeons and Dragons.

[Celebrion Seregon]

I don't think fairys are deominc, although I say don't exist *claps hands* they're cute to want to beleive in, even if they don't actually exist *claps hands*


off topic: my math teacher and I got on the subject of D&D the other day...I was one of two students know knew what it was.... *sigh* I should've expected it, since no one else knew who Roy Rogers was...

[Hergungwyrm]

I guess it is more of a misunderstaing or fear or something pagan or weird. Fairies are not demonic, but nowadays once can find new depictions of the faery beings and the like... and they might not seem too friendly. Well, it also depends on the tale and the folklore.

But I think most of those creatures are just mischievous.

[BarbarianKing]

I believe in Jesus!!

[MRW]

Nice Peter Pan reference Celebrion Seregon. ;)

Dayhawk, if it makes you feel any better, I grew up with an extremely conservative mother who outlawed any and all fantasy that involved magic/witchcraft. I wasn't even allowed to read The Chronicles of Narnia because they contain magic.

I think that a lot of more...cautious folks take the Biblical treatises against witchcraft and apply it to any and all witchcraft and magic in media. This seems rather silly to me, because things like fairies, Harry Potter, and the witches of Narnia have absolutely nothing to do with true witchcraft and the occult. Whether or not the occult and witchcraft are evil has been debated elsewhere, so I won't go into my thoughts on that, but even if you are working under the assumption that those things are evil, fictional magic is rarely anything like the real thing.

And the people who say D&D will posess your soul amuse me greatly. I've heard people say that you'll identify so strongly with your D&D character that you'll believe you really are that character, and you'll become depressed or suicidal if they die in battle. It's just so laughable, and obvious that they've never run a campaign. When tabletopping it's almost imossible to really indentify with your character because you're always having to pull back OOC to consult your stat sheet. I died...at least half-a-dozen times in the last campaign I played, and I'm still fine and dandy.

[Copperfox]

I don't believe that fantasy will hand my soul over to the Devil--or I _wouldn't_ ever have played D & D. But here are the questions to be asking:

1) Do I believe that there actually are _supernatural_ beings who operate independently of the Biblical God, who refuse to submit to Him and obey Him--and yet who are _still_ entitled to be described as _good?_

2) Do I believe that it is both desirable and possible for _myself,_ in reality, to possess genuinely supernatural _powers_ which are independent of God, and which are commanded by my own will without any need to do so much as _consult_ God about their use?

If your serious answer to either of those questions is Yes, then to that extent you are operating contrary to orthodox Judeo-Christian belief.

[MrBob]

So dayhawk, I assume you never got money from the tooth fairy?

And boy Cosmo and Wanda are so evil! So is Cinderella's helper.

Are fairies evil? You've done more research than I have (and possibly your mother). As has already been mentioned, when authorities come down too hard on legendary/fantastical beings as being evil and to be avoided, ther authority for other things begins to diminish as you are starting to question the rationale of everything they are saying.

One thing to tell your mother is that if she allows you to enjoy fictitious creatures, you will promise to avod them when they appear to you in real life (OK, maybe that would seem patronizing) ;)

MrBob

[Ephinie]

Why would you wind up and point your finger at a specific creature, saying that it is evil? Do you believe that a creature can be evil by nature? It's like saying amongst the sea creatures, the sharks are "evil". Just because of how they naturally. Yeah sharks can't change, but Fae is a whole different story.
Well you have made an EXCELLENT point here, but... do we believe that demons are evil by nature? Do we believe that there can be a "good demon"? I think not...

But more to the point, all this talk of calling this or that, "Demonic." Demons are demonic. The occult is demonic. Demonic activity is a serious thing. I believe that many of us Christians throw the term "demonic" around far too easily. In fact, I know we do. I grew up in an ultra-conservative home in which any magic at all, even magic that happened in a fantasy context, was considered, "Demonic." Let's call a spade a spade, I say. Something can be objectionable and yes, even evil, without being demonic. Demons are not necessary to create a bad situation or to get people to sin. If we call everything that can be evil "demonic," then the force of the word loses its meaning when we come up against something that really IS demonic.

I have heard somewhere that it used to be believed that fae were either fallen angels who decided not to serve Satan or that they were the children of fallen angels. Okay, in THAT context, then yes... fae would be demonic. Yet this was more of a belief about what a fae was if it were real, and we all know they are not really real. And we also know that when we read fantasy or fiction or just talk about faeries in general, this is NOT our understanding of what a fae is. We understand a fae to be a magical creature that has a variety of abilities and is known for mischief and such. That is a far cry from demonic - even though some versions of faeries in some literature can be incredibly dark. Sometimes they are nice, and sometimes they are not so nice.

Therefore, we can't make a blanket statement like, "Faeries are demonic." First we have to know exactly what kind of fae we are talking about... how it was used in the context of the story in question... ect. Besides, Fae is a term that can be used to describe other fantastical creatures that have no other definition - like elves even. Imagine calling Elrond demonic!

Bottom line is... Copperfox pretty much hit the nail on the head. A creature can't be good apart from God, and that includes us humans. If we are talking about something fantastical in a story, that might be a little more difficult to evaluate. Not every book has a figure of ultimate good vs. ultimate evil that is laid out so clearly and openly as, for example, the Chronicles of Narnia does. Sometimes you have to read between the lines to figure out what the author is saying.

[Truman]

I really couldn't care less about whether people believe in fairies or not. Fairies are mythical. They aren't real. I heard of some movie "based on a true story" about some kid who saw real fairies. My belief? B-U-N-K. Probably as based on a true story as the Amityville horror was (which the people who claimed so announced later that they stretched the truth a bit; I'm not surprised).

Dungeons and Dragons... I read your post, MRW, about how you think it's laughable about people thinking they're the character, blah blah blah, whatever. I've read dozens of accounts about suicides and murders that resulted from playing that game. Those are "based on true stories," this is the real deal. Not that I'm scared of the game, but the fact remains that people do overdo certain things, and D&D is one of 'em. There are serious cases of obsession surrounding this game, and anyone who denies it is ignoring the facts. And you sir, are one of them.

James Dallas Eggbert III of Michigan: shot himself in the head after getting involved in "Dungeons and Dragons."

Irving Pulling II from Montpelier, Virginia: snuk into his parents' room, stole a gun, went outside and shot himself in the chest. A suicide note was found, brimming with material from the game "Dungeons and Dragons." His mother is now an activist for taking fantasy role-playing games off the market. Her son committed suicide because of one.

Mike Dempsey from Florida: began playing "Dungeons and Dragons" which caused him to "lose all interest" in his former pleasures, such as chess and water-skiing. After extensive play he tapped into voodoo cults such as astrology and tarot. He later committed suicide.

Larry Swartz of Maryland: convicted of murdering both his parents. Said his only regret about going to jail would be that he couldn't play "Dungeons and Dragons," which he claimed he played all the time, and what he loved most.

Juan Kimbrough of Oakland, California: shot by his 15-year-old brother as a result of a "climax" of an intense "Dungeons and Dragons" session.

Ohio: 13-year-old boy found to have hanged himself in his own room by practicing "autoerotic hanging." I won't describe it. He was (quote) "acting out a fantasy apparently from the game "Dungeons and Dragons." His sister said he said he thought he was actually "living the game" after a certain point of extended play.

Arlington, Texas: Teen blows himself away with a .410 shotgun in front of his drama class. Known as a devotee to "Dungeons and Dragons." Authorities weren't sure it had anything to do with the game until several months later, when detectives got five anonymous tips about a double homicide that "may have had a relation" to "Dungeons and Dragons." Later, a woman and her fiance were found with slashed throats in a local park. The woman was playing "Dungeons and Dragons" at the time.

Timothy Grice of Lafayette, Colorado: suicide by shotgun. A detective involved was quoted,
"He thought he was not constrained to this life, but could leave and return because of the game [Dungeons and Dragons]."

Daniel Ethan Erwin and Stephen Ray Erwin of Lafayette, Colorado: Double suicide, a pact made by each brother as part of a component related to the game "Dungeons and Dragons." A police chief was quoted at the scene,
"My understanding is that once you reach a certain point where you are the master, your only way out is death. That way no one can beat you."

Danny Rameta and Lisa Dunn of Traverse City, Michigan (boyfriend & girlfriend): Murdered 4 people on a killing spree in northwest Kansas in response to a move in the game "Dungeons and Dragons." They confessed so.

Quoted from Painted Black by Carl A. Raschke:
In Freemont, California, three adolescents and an adult male were arrested and charged with the murder of fourteen-year-old Kellie Jean Poppleton. Officials disclosed that the girl had served as an informer to police about a junior high drug ring. Prior to her death the girl's assailants had sexually molested her. Two days before the slaying, Kellie had written for her teacher an essay about playing the fantasy game "Dungeons and Dragons" while smoking marijuana.

"I can really get into the game," Poppleton wrote. I can almost see the Orcas coming after me and a spell being cast on me. It's so realistic. I begin to feel like a medieval warrior in a cold damp dungeon fighting for power, gold and glory. It might get a little carried away at times, but I finally come back to earth."

I could go on for a few more pages. Would anyone like to hear more? ...Didn't think so.

These are all people 21 years old and under, most under 18. The game encourages "torture, arson, murder, highway robbery, and rape." Section 19 of the "Dungeons and Dragons Master's Guide" commends "Suicide Mania," reading:
This form of insanity causes the afflicted character to have overwhelming urges to destroy himself or herself whenever means is presented.

Someone'll say "These are people who are obsessive! The majority isn't like this!" Why am I still afraid? The fact that the majority of people who play aren't affected to the point of obsession doesn't get rid of the people who do, and I wouldn't call it too much of a majority, either. These aren't the only people; there are many more cases. I could go on.

These are real people and real events. I would call this far from "laughable." I'm not laughing. I could go on about Harry Potter for a few pages. Would anyone like to hear about the dangers posed upon the teens by this series? ...Didn't think so either. Magic is real. It's demonic, but it's real and can happen. Curses are real. I've got evidence of this as well if anyone would like to read.

-----------

It's just so laughable, and obvious that they've never run a campaign.

Yeah, and I'm Whoopi Goldberg.

[Ephinie]

I could go on for a few more pages. Would anyone like to hear more? ...Didn't think so.
If anyone DOES want to hear more... or wants to counter his argument, then let's just make a new thread about RPGs or something. Going in depth into this other topic would throw this thread off topic. Thanks.

I could go on about Harry Potter for a few pages. Would anyone like to hear about the dangers posed upon the teens by this series? ...Didn't think so either.
As it happens, we also have a thread running around here somewhere for people to debate Harry Potter and whether they think it is harmful or not and for what reasons. Since this whole thing is obviously a subject you are passionate about, you might want to pop in there as well.

[gair]

I really couldn't care less about whether people believe in fairies or not. Fairies are mythical. They aren't real. I heard of some movie "based on a true story" about some kid who saw real fairies. My belief? B-U-N-K. Probably as based on a true story as the Amityville horror was (which the people who claimed so announced later that they stretched the truth a bit; I'm not surprised).

Dungeons and Dragons... I read your post, MRW, about how you think it's laughable about people thinking they're the character, blah blah blah, whatever. I've read dozens of accounts about suicides and murders that resulted from playing that game. Those are "based on true stories," this is the real deal. Not that I'm scared of the game, but the fact remains that people do overdo certain things, and D&D is one of 'em. There are serious cases of obsession surrounding this game, and anyone who denies it is ignoring the facts. And you sir, are one of them.

James Dallas Eggbert III of Michigan: shot himself in the head after getting involved in "Dungeons and Dragons."

Irving Pulling II from Montpelier, Virginia: snuk into his parents' room, stole a gun, went outside and shot himself in the chest. A suicide note was found, brimming with material from the game "Dungeons and Dragons." His mother is now an activist for taking fantasy role-playing games off the market. Her son committed suicide because of one.

Mike Dempsey from Florida: began playing "Dungeons and Dragons" which caused him to "lose all interest" in his former pleasures, such as chess and water-skiing. After extensive play he tapped into voodoo cults such as astrology and tarot. He later committed suicide.

Larry Swartz of Maryland: convicted of murdering both his parents. Said his only regret about going to jail would be that he couldn't play "Dungeons and Dragons," which he claimed he played all the time, and what he loved most.

Juan Kimbrough of Oakland, California: shot by his 15-year-old brother as a result of a "climax" of an intense "Dungeons and Dragons" session.

Ohio: 13-year-old boy found to have hanged himself in his own room by practicing "autoerotic hanging." I won't describe it. He was (quote) "acting out a fantasy apparently from the game "Dungeons and Dragons." His sister said he said he thought he was actually "living the game" after a certain point of extended play.

Arlington, Texas: Teen blows himself away with a .410 shotgun in front of his drama class. Known as a devotee to "Dungeons and Dragons." Authorities weren't sure it had anything to do with the game until several months later, when detectives got five anonymous tips about a double homicide that "may have had a relation" to "Dungeons and Dragons." Later, a woman and her fiance were found with slashed throats in a local park. The woman was playing "Dungeons and Dragons" at the time.

Timothy Grice of Lafayette, Colorado: suicide by shotgun. A detective involved was quoted,


Daniel Ethan Erwin and Stephen Ray Erwin of Lafayette, Colorado: Double suicide, a pact made by each brother as part of a component related to the game "Dungeons and Dragons." A police chief was quoted at the scene,


Danny Rameta and Lisa Dunn of Traverse City, Michigan (boyfriend & girlfriend): Murdered 4 people on a killing spree in northwest Kansas in response to a move in the game "Dungeons and Dragons." They confessed so.

Quoted from Painted Black by Carl A. Raschke:


I could go on for a few more pages. Would anyone like to hear more? ...Didn't think so.

These are all people 21 years old and under, most under 18. The game encourages "torture, arson, murder, highway robbery, and rape." Section 19 of the "Dungeons and Dragons Master's Guide" commends "Suicide Mania," reading:


Someone'll say "These are people who are obsessive! The majority isn't like this!" Why am I still afraid? The fact that the majority of people who play aren't affected to the point of obsession doesn't get rid of the people who do, and I wouldn't call it too much of a majority, either. These aren't the only people; there are many more cases. I could go on.

These are real people and real events. I would call this far from "laughable." I'm not laughing. I could go on about Harry Potter for a few pages. Would anyone like to hear about the dangers posed upon the teens by this series? ...Didn't think so either. Magic is real. It's demonic, but it's real and can happen. Curses are real. I've got evidence of this as well if anyone would like to read.

-----------



Yeah, and I'm Whoopi Goldberg.

I can't help but think tighter controls on access to guns might be more helpful than stopping rpgs.

[Doffen]

I'd be interested to hear what Truman sayes about RPG's, as I've read alot of D&D material and been playing NWN (Dungeons and Dragons RPG game for the computer) for aslong as I can remember (I would have no chance communicating with you guys if I hadn't played that game. That's where my english comes from).

It's quite silly to see someone blame a game when someone commits suicide. It's true: Dungeons and Dragons are limitless to YOUR OWN IMAGINATION(!!). Dungeons and Dragons don't promote suicide, rape or anything the like (Have you read the rulebooks, Truman? Surely I have, all four of them!). Dungeons and Dragons is a game based around a place called Fâerun, what you do in that world is totally up to you and no one else. If you want, you can play Dungeons and Dragons without mythological creatures at all, and no magic. It's the player that decides, not the game. Merely the fact that some people take suicide because of that game doesn't make the /game/ evil. Some people took suicide after playing Final Fantasy because they /believed/ the story in Final Fantasy to be real. Now really, whom are the most disturbed? The player or the game..?

And yes, Truman, I would like the evidence you can give me that Magic is real.

[dayhawk68]

I'd be interested to hear what Truman sayes about RPG's, as I've read alot of D&D material and been playing NWN (Dungeons and Dragons RPG game for the computer) for aslong as I can remember (I would have no chance communicating with you guys if I hadn't played that game. That's where my english comes from).

It's quite silly to see someone blame a game when someone commits suicide. It's true: Dungeons and Dragons are limitless to YOUR OWN IMAGINATION(!!). Dungeons and Dragons don't promote suicide, rape or anything the like (Have you read the rulebooks, Truman? Surely I have, all four of them!). Dungeons and Dragons is a game based around a place called Fâerun, what you do in that world is totally up to you and no one else. If you want, you can play Dungeons and Dragons without mythological creatures at all, and no magic. It's the player that decides, not the game. Merely the fact that some people take suicide because of that game doesn't make the /game/ evil. Some people took suicide after playing Final Fantasy because they /believed/ the story in Final Fantasy to be real. Now really, whom are the most disturbed? The player or the game..?

And yes, Truman, I would like the evidence you can give me that Magic is real.

well technically it is but its not really spells and pretty colors, its more like impressions and ...seeing things...

ok well you see my mom used to live with a grey and white witch. they taught her things like seeing oras. She could tell you everytime where a pawn was in your closed hands behind your back (this is probably why my mom thinks fairies are demonic b/c they are always linked to the occult). So yeah magic is real...but think of it more as demonic influence rather than your own.

[Copperfox]

>> So yeah magic is real...but think of it more as demonic
>> influence rather than your own.


Kim, you never spoke a truer or more applicable word than this! The whole point of serious occultism is to convince you that you can possess and command a power _separate_ from God, even _rivalling_ His power. The Spirit of Antichrist shamelessly plays on people's ego, their desire to remake reality as they please. Note that I am speaking about people trying to have magic powers FOR REAL, not about games.

The nasty surprise is that, the more you think you are controlling some impressive mystical power--the more IT is actually controlling YOU.

[inkspot]

As Ephinie requested, if we are going to talk about whether RPG's are evil or magic is evil in fantasy stories, let's make another thread for it. This one is strictly for faeries. Thanks.

[DaydreamBeliever]

and so are fairies demonic???

Not,imo..:)To me they're just cute,funny,sweet little creatures.:D

[Copperfox]

BUT--and this ties in directly to the concerns Dayhawk and I expressed about occultism--do you think of fairies as _autonomous?_ Do you think of them as _independent_ from God, existing "in their own right" without reference or deference to Him?

[gair]

so do fairies exist?
i thought they were purely fantasy, like witches adn dragons and jenny greenteeth.

[Copperfox]

I myself don't for a minute believe that fairies exist. But real-world people can be affected spiritually, psychologically and morall by the attitude they take toward such concepts.

[gair]

ah ok
makes more sense now lol.

it is quite worrying though how mindlessly people accept anything they read/watch.
I mean when you are a little girl it is wonderful to think of fairies and their pink tutus, or to have your nan scare you witless from jenny greenteeth who lives in the pond and will drag you in, but i don't get how you can carry on believing. Knowledge is good and bad.

[inkspot]

so do fairies exist?
i thought they were purely fantasy, like witches adn dragons and jenny greenteeth.
Jenny Green Teeth?!

[dayhawk68]

so do fairies exist?
i thought they were purely fantasy, like witches adn dragons and jenny greenteeth.

witches exsist just not like Harrr P witches

are fairies real? no, not in the way they are presented. Thier mythological origins are from stories of Angels. If you beleive angels are real then, yeah, in a sense Fae (or fairies) are real. But they are angels, (tall and winged and whatever else the Bible mentions of their appearnece) not lil sprites or pixies. Those were man made myths.

[BarbarianKing]

The real question should be: "Is Tinkerbell demonic or sexy?" :D

[dayhawk68]

The real question should be: "Is Tinkerbell demonic or sexy?" :D

:rolleyes:both in a good way though;)

[BarbarianKing]

:rolleyes:both in a good way though;)
LOL! I was just kidding. :) I don't like coming to this section to "discuss" things. There is really no point. For me anyway.

[MRW]

The real question should be: "Is Tinkerbell demonic or sexy?" :D

Neither. J. M. Barrie's fairies are just too small to contain more than one emotion at a time, and her jealousy of Wendy usually outweighed her sweetness. I highly doubt Barrie would have wanted anyone to think of Tink as sexy. She was in love with Peter, certainly, but the buxom lass most people associate with Tink is purely Disney's fault.