Abandoning Atheism

[Near]

This isn't a dig on Atheists or anyone for that matter. However, after recent events in my life, I can no longer call myself an Atheist. Nor, can I say I am a Christian or anything for that matter.

It appears I have still have some much needed soul searching to do. However, I'm looking forward to the search at hand.

In reality, I have no idea what I am looking for. But, I believe I'm stepping onto the path that leads into the right direction.

If someone like me can find love, who knows what else I can find.

[Protagonist]

If that's what makes you happy, then that's totally freaking awesome. Congratulations

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Best of luck! I'll be praying for you. If it helps, there are two things that have always helped me in my life's journey:


Love (not necessarily romantic love, but all love) is the most important thing in life. With it, any trial can be endured; without it, the finest things of the world are shallow and tawdry.
Truth is always worth seeking whatever the cost. Flagging in the search because of bitterness, disappointment, or distraction is unworthy of us.

Blessings upon you!

[Copperfox]

Near, this might be a fitting time for you to read C.S. Lewis' autobiography "Surprised By Joy."

[Solya]

This sounds wonderful, Near! :) I'm very pleased that you're stepping onto the path that feels right to you... never stop seeking! It's so wonderful to open yourself up to anything that comes your way.

Wishing you lots of joy and love in your search...

[Frodosgurl]

What Protag said. :)

[Near]

Things have been happening. Mainly in regards to my relationship with Will. It seems whenever we feel the most alone, we connect to one another despite the distance.

Just last night, I was feeling depressed and lonely. I decided to send Will a PM on the other forum we reside on. Just after I sent it, he signed on.

I told him of some of the new characters I was creating, namely one in honor of him. An anthro Irish Wolfhound named Liam. Will was really shocked by that, mainly because one of his dogs is an Irish Wolfhound. Something that he has never told me. I never knew...so what made me pick that breed of dog for my character?

These 'events' in my life have had me questioning Atheism for sometime. I can't logically explain them expect to say that they are mere chance. And, I don't want to say my love for Will is all on mere chance.

[inkspot]

I am so happy for you, Near! And I agree with PoTW. Keep searching for the Truth. It is well worth having!

:)

I am praying for you, too.

[Lord of Light]

Wow...absolutely...oh wow...I don't know what to say!!!:eek:

Ah well...

I'll be praying for you!

[SongsofLife]

Dearest Near,

You are embarking on a wonderful journey. For it is in seeking that you will find. I am excited for you and praying for you.

Blessings,

Songs

[gair]

keep thinking though =)

[Doffen]

Not unexpected. Best of luck! =)

[BarbarianKing]

Near. You have no idea how happy I am for you. Like PoTW said, Truth and Love are two of the things you should always keep in mind. You know how "love" touched you and made you question yourself and who you were. Truth will enhance that, and possibly help you find yourself and find what you are looking for.

I will keep on praying for you. You know how much everyone here cares for you and appreciates you. Do let us know from time to time how you are doing in this quest. Blessings to you and your beautiful daughter.

[MrBob]

Near, realize that the journey of your spiritual path can give you as much meaning as the destination, if you ever get there. My spiritual path took me through atheism and although I have reached a nice look-out spot, I don't consider it a destination. I don't think one can ever truly settle on a single place along their spiritual path. The path is the destination and the search is what will make you a greater person.

Good luck in seeking your own truth as it comes to you, whatever that may be.

MrBob

[Truman]

Good luck, Near. I pray you'll find what you're looking for. :)

[Mrs Gil-Galad Took]

Now hear!! That's a great step into the good direction Near :D And yes you deserve all the best and congrats!!!!

[fernshirehobbit]

congratulations, near! that is a step in a good direction. *hugs*

[Near]

Well, I've done some serious searching and thinking...believe me...

[BarbarianKing]

Well, I've done some serious searching and thinking...believe me...

I am sure this will be a positive experience for you. I will keep you in my prayers.

[Near]

It may seem like I haven't really taken the time to consider my religious views. However, I believe I have taken enough time.

I went and read up on Christianity, Judaism (hope I spelled that correctly), and many more of the worlds religions. I also meditated. I put myself in deep thought over the matter.

And guess what?

I was led right back to Atheism. However, I believe I have become a different kind of Atheist then what I was before. After reading this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists

I realized what me and my fellow Atheists are going through. We are even more distrusted then Muslims. Just simply because we don't believe in the existence of an all knowing deity? I was watching a video, which showed a billboard that stated if someone has a lack of faith, they are traitors to the United States of America. And this billboard was sponsered by a Reverend.

I have to say, that really cut me deep.

Now, being on this forum for quite awhile, I have gained numerous friends here. The majority being Christians. And I have come to realize, that's what I was meant to learn from all of this. Not only to be tolerant of others, but to have friendships in every form and belief. Be it Christian, Atheist, or whatever else.

Does that mean I'll stand up for my rights? Of course. It's part of being free. I have realized that Atheism is a part of me. Just like Christianity is part of all of you, I'm sure.

I believe I have abandoned the 'angry' Atheist mentality.

[Copperfox]

Near, if you study enough history, you will discover a concrete fact--a fact which is observably and verifiably true, regardless of abstract philosophy. It is the fact that, taking all history together, governments devoted to atheism have done FAR MORE to repress belief in God by force and fear, than governments built around a religious faith have done to repress atheism by force and fear. In actual reality, as opposed to the vision Hollywood wants you to have, Jihads and Inquisitions vanish into insignificance when compared to the stupefying body count racked up by Communism and Fascism. There is just no comparison.

Want easy, immediate proof? You ARE the proof. I don't mean that YOU are oppressing anyone; I mean that you aren't BEING oppressed. You are freely and openly declaring atheism, in a setting established BY believers in God, and no one is even THINKING of wishing to silence you by force. Now, just TRY going into any setting controlled by Communists and speaking as positively in favor of God, as here you are allowed to speak against Him.

[Near]

All I want is separation of Church and State. Much of what I want is stated in this video, as I can't go into depth about what and how I believe. Because I have to get to work. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVbLbweVWN8&feature=related

I no longer care about proving or disproving the existence of a god. Most Atheists are this way. We just wants our rights met, the same as anyone else. Live and let live.

And I had a feeling you would pull out the Communism card, CF. As, I found out that most Christian Americans (not saying you) consider Atheists to be no better then Communists.

However, this is why Atheists are afraid to speak out, afraid to come out of the closest so to speak. Sure, I openly state that I'm an Atheist on the internet. It's much easier to hide behind a computer.

But, I'm taking further action now. I will proudly say that I'm an Atheist in public. No longer will I hide it.

Besides, if a non-believer and a believer can fall in love and wish to be together forever. Who knows what can happen?

[Copperfox]

>> I will proudly say that I'm an Atheist in public. No longer will I hide it.

* yawns *

But that's MY point. You haven't BEEN hiding it; you FIRST CAME here declaring it, because you ALREADY KNEW you were in no danger from us for declaring it. Atheists already have their rights in the free world, and they really already KNOW that they have their rights.

[Doffen]

And I had a feeling you would pull out the Communism card, CF. As, I found out that most Christian Americans (not saying you) consider Atheists to be no better then Communists.



Americans often do see communism in alot more then anyone else. Are we blind? :eek:

[FONT="Georgia"]Near, if you study enough history, you will discover a concrete fact--a fact which is observably and verifiably true, regardless of abstract philosophy. It is the fact that, taking all history together, governments devoted to atheism have done FAR MORE to repress belief in God by force and fear, than governments built around a religious faith have done to repress atheism by force and fear. In actual reality, as opposed to the vision Hollywood wants you to have, Jihads and Inquisitions vanish into insignificance when compared to the stupefying body count racked up by Communism and Fascism. There is just no comparison.



That is simply not a fact at all. I would like to see the "facts" on this. Communists in Soviet had a perfectly good right to be a Christian if they wanted to. Christianity has forced themselves on people for centuries, like all other religions.

[Lord of Light]

Americans often do see communism in alot more then anyone else. Are we blind? :eek:



That is simply not a fact at all. I would like to see the "facts" on this. Communists in Soviet had a perfectly good right to be a Christian if they wanted to. Christianity has forced themselves on people for centuries, like all other religions.

Okay, first off Doffen, I do believe this isn't a debate thread. Second, you just stated something that is not a fact yourself, or if it is, you did not back it up with proof. And I would like, in a pm, ONLY IN A PM, for you to give me an example of Christianity being forced on people. For I highly doubt you can give me an example, but I will see what you come up with.

Near, I will be praying for you.

[Doffen]

Okay, first off Doffen, I do believe this isn't a debate thread. Second, you just stated something that is not a fact yourself, or if it is, you did not back it up with proof. And I would like, in a pm, ONLY IN A PM, for you to give me an example of Christianity being forced on people. For I highly doubt you can give me an example, but I will see what you come up with.

Near, I will be praying for you.

Alright, I'll retract from the "discussion" (I admit) that I was somehow creating. But that was because I thought Copperfox' post to be completely redicilous. I will send you that PM ;)

[Near]

>> I will proudly say that I'm an Atheist in public. No longer will I hide it.

* yawns *

But that's MY point. You haven't BEEN hiding it; you FIRST CAME here declaring it, because you ALREADY KNEW you were in no danger from us for declaring it. Atheists already have their rights in the free world, and they really already KNOW that they have their rights.

Regardless if Atheists truly have their rights or not, Atheists are still discriminated against.

We are looked down upon for our beliefs, or rather our lack of beliefs. Polls showed that we are the most distrusted/disliked minority. (I saw a video that proves this claim as well, I'll post it when I get home from work.)

But, what have we done? Atheists have not started wars, or murdered the innocent just because of what they believed in.

So, why are we disliked so? Disliked is just a 'nice ' term for hate. Though I do believe some Christians don't hate Atheists, I believe the majority of Christians do hate Atheists. And hatred is linked to fear, so why do Christians fear Atheists?

Why do they want us silenced so much? Not whether over the existence of god, but silenced over the fact that church and state need to be separate.

In reality, that's all Atheists want. For separation of Church and State to be just that.

[MeghantheDraygon]

I don't fear and hate Athiests. My heart breaks for them.

[Copperfox]

Near, have you set foot inside an American public school? I've been a tutor in plenty of them, and atheistic presuppositions like the totally materialistic nature of the universe are taken for granted, while in many schools it is literally FORBIDDEN even to MENTION God at all. This is fact, not my opinion.

Also, don't you go to ANY movies? It is CHRISTIANS who are constantly being mocked and put down in the movies these days, depicted as racists and thieves.

[Near]

For the majority of the world to distrust Atheists, I'd say that there has to be some hate in there.

Not saying every Christian, or every person from every religion hates us. It just that you don't distrust something that you accept and like.

[bruiser]

mm. True that. At school the only time anyone mentions God is in the Pledge. Period.

We can't really have discussions about politics either.

[bruiser]

I don't fear and hate Athiests. My heart breaks for them.
You shouldn't pity them either. That doesn't help AT ALL. Period. It only makes things worse.

[MeghantheDraygon]

I don't mean pity....

[bruiser]

I don't mean pity....
eh. Feeling sorry for them and pitying them are almost tip for tap. You're running along a thin line there.

[MeghantheDraygon]

Not feeling sorry for either!
Just.... ehh....
*makes mental note to stay out of theological debates from now on*

[bruiser]

Great.... Now I've ran someone else out of a thread. [bangshead.]

[MeghantheDraygon]

No, no, it's fine... I just don't think I should participate in a place where I'll just make things worse...
I don't like arguments anyway.

[Copperfox]

Meghan, YOU have not made anything worse. And don't mind Amanda; I just forgot to give her her medications this morning. :D

But for those who want to believe that I'm just making it up about the oppressions practiced by Communism, I recommend the writings of Richard Wurmbrand.

[bruiser]

Yeah; ignore me. I'm just talking out of my butt. I haven't taken my meds this morning because I actually have an opinion.

Continue to where this thread was running, I'll say no more.

[Near]

Actually my brothers go to a public school. Where an after school program that they attend talks about god. So no, religious practices are still being done in public schools.

[Copperfox]

You yourself said it, Near: AFTER school. But DURING the school day, IN the curriculum, as OFFICIAL doctrine under MANDATORY attendance, things are not "neutral;" it is precisely atheistic presuppositions that are consistently favored.

[bruiser]

Aye, but it's not during school hours. Or at least not normally.
My school does the same thing.

It gets annoying sometimes, but that's because of the people that are in those clubs. They can't be taken seriously.

[Near]

I honestly don't care if it's during school or after school. It should not be done on public school grounds. Cause, honestly, most parents would force their children into this program. Instead of asking if they wish to attend. I know my mother has made my brothers join it. And I know my one brother is uncomfortable there, as he has told me this. I tell my mother, but she won't hear any of it.

Religion should not be talked about in any shape or form on school grounds. Regardless of the time of day.

[bruiser]

I'm kinda leaning in with Near on this one.

Either their parents are going to force them into it OR they're going to get into it just to get out of classes so either way they're not serious about it. And if you're not serious about religion, then there's no reason why you should be participating in one.

[Copperfox]

The point Near misses is the point the atheistic establishment has _taught_ her to miss.

What IS religion? For many, the word means _every_ belief system which addresses the ultimate meaning of things. On this understanding, materialistic secular humanism, the view that enjoys privileged monopoly status in schools, IS ITSELF A RELIGION.

The secularists who pretend that their approach is neutral and impartial are like a father who enters his own daughter in a beauty contest where he himself is the judge. In the "contest" of belief systems, the secularists DO have their own candidate in the competition, and they shamelessly rig the contest in favor of their own position.

A lady named Berit Kjos (I believe that her last name is pronounced like the word "chose," only with a hard S) has written insightfully about this phenomenon of unconfessed favoritism. She is worth searching for.

[bruiser]

One word...

Epicureanism.

Look it up.

[inkspot]

One word...

Epicureanism.

Look it up.
What do you mean, Amanda? You mean, you are an Epicure?

OK, a couple points:

* Near mentions her mother forced her brothers to join the religious club, and that this is wrong. But in fact, it isn't wrong for parents to tell the children to do what they think is best for them. What kid would go to Sunday School if Mum didn't make them? The pay off is what you receive from the activity, as Mum well knows, and if she thinks it's best, then it is best. This is no reason not to allow a Christian club on campus.

* If any extra-curricular clubs are allowed on campus, then a Christian club cannot, constitutionally, be forbidden access. That would deny freedom of religion in the worst way. Whether you believe in God or not, you cannot draw a distinction between the Christian club and the knitting club -- especially if you do not believe in God. If you do draw that distinction, and close down the Christian club, you are transgressing freedom of religion.

[BarbarianKing]

*makes mental note to stay out of theological debates from now on*

Good idea Meg! I decided a long time ago to stay out of this section.

I came here to encourage Near and I found this. So yea.

Don't post anything you want me to read cause I won't be back. I will still encourage Near, only privately.

[bruiser]

What do you mean, Amanda? You mean, you are an Epicure?

OK, a couple points:

* Near mentions her mother forced her brothers to join the religious club, and that this is wrong. But in fact, it isn't wrong for parents to tell the children to do what they think is best for them. What kid would go to Sunday School if Mum didn't make them? The pay off is what you receive from the activity, as Mum well knows, and if she thinks it's best, then it is best. This is no reason not to allow a Christian club on campus.

* If any extra-curricular clubs are allowed on campus, then a Christian club cannot, constitutionally, be forbidden access. That would deny freedom of religion in the worst way. Whether you believe in God or not, you cannot draw a distinction between the Christian club and the knitting club -- especially if you do not believe in God. If you do draw that distinction, and close down the Christian club, you are transgressing freedom of religion.
That lifestyle is something similar to what I think.


I attend church when I feel like it. My parents have never forced me to go since I was a child and I attend when I like now.
You can't tell me that what my parents think is best for me all of the time is truely the best.
My father believes that there should be no interracial couples period, but my boyfriend is obviously not white [lol.]. He's been the greatest thing in my life... you can't tell me that I should not associate with him because of his skin.

What makes me laugh is around here they can have all of the Christian clubs that you would want, but they can't add a club that supports any other religion OR even a club that promotes good attitudes and acceptance toward gays.

[inkspot]

Bruiser, I can't tell you what is best for you, but parents are charged with that particular duty: to do what is best for their children. If mom and dad think it's best for a child to learn to play piano, they get them piano lessons -- and no one thinks that it should be illegal for piano lessons to be offered on a public school campus. So, I think religion should be treated the same way. Even if a child is in the club because mum forced him, that's just the way it goes until you are an adult.

And you are restating my idea, from a different direction, when you say that with all the Christian clubs on campus, it is unfair that there cant be a tolerance club or a club for another religion. That's exactly what I am saying: if there are any clubs at all, then there ought to be religious clubs as well (Christian or Hindu or what have you).

[Near]

I was a child who was forced to go to Sunday School and Church. Even at a young age I was very uncomfortable being forced into being in these places.

I think a child should be given the choice. Which I'm allowing for my daughter. When she becomes aware of religion, I'll allow her to make her choices and support her no matter what she chooses.

And I must at some point face the fact that I must tell my family I'm an Atheist. I'm afraid to, not because I fear them personally, but because I fear that they might try to take my daughter away from me. Claim I'm an unfit parent because I'm an Atheist.

Of course, I won't tell them until I move out and I'm with my William. Who just so happens to be a believer. Whether he says he's a Christian, I'm not sure.

[Darth Sparhawk]

I was a child who was forced to go to Sunday School and Church. Even at a young age I was very uncomfortable being forced into being in these places.

I think a child should be given the choice.

For sure, I agree with this. About religion and about piano as well. If the kids needs something, I believe that the kid will tell the parents. For example, the Finnish kid, Raikkonen. When he was young he said, I want to drive a car. His Dad bought him a go kart and the kid grew up and became a Formula One champion.
If he hated cars, he would have never became a champion, I dare to say. Same about piano.
And about religion. If a kid feels that it is atheistic or neopagan or Muslim, it shouldn't be forced on Christian school. It will be bad for the kid, It will connect religion with something unpleasant, like literature in school. You know how many people hate reading because of this?
That's my opinion.
I agree with CF, however, that one point of view about the world is forced on people. The hard scientist view, that there is just a Big Bang and evolution and that's all about it. I agree that this is not the right thing to do.

[Near]

However, Christians force their believes on others on a daily basis. It's technically illegal for 'In God We Trust' to appear on our bills and coins.

How might you ask? Because it goes against the U.S. Constitution and Separation of Church and State and First Amendment.

And how did it even appear on our currency?

Here's a small article from the website, www.truthsaves.com, by Mitchell Kahle:

"In God We Trust" was put on all paper currency by an Act of Congress in 1955; the phrase was declared the national motto by an Act of Congress in 1956 and first appeared on paper currency in 1957.

The mid-to-late 1950s were a time of overt racism, religious discrimination, and political oppression in the United States. McCarthyism was at its feverous peak. The "red scare" had Congress and President Eisenhower acting in paranoid fits of illegal and unconstitutional activity. The FBI, under the militant J. Edgar Hoover, engaged in illegal spying campaigns against Americans.

During this period, the federal government acted more like an authoritarian dictatorship than a constitutional democracy. The government violated civil rights with impunity.

Adding "In God We Trust" to the US currency was an act of religious and political propaganda, allegedly to counter the threat of "godless communism."

In the early 1990s, the Freedom From Religion Foundation filed a lawsuit to remove "In God We Trust" from currency and as our national motto, but their case was dismissed by a federal judge on the grounds that "In God We Trust" is not a religious phrase. If "In God We Trust" is not a religious phrase, what is it? Of course the judge did not attempt to justify his absurd claim.

The Foundation appealed, but in 1996 the US Supreme Court refused to hear the case, claiming the issue was de minimus.

The word "God" is 100% religious and exclusively sectarian with respect to the monotheistic religions of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. The word "We" implies a statement that is inclusive of all citizens, yet millions of Americans do not "Trust In God." The word "God" is in fact nonsense to more than 30 million atheist citizens.

[Josh the Jester]

Our nations was founded by Christian principles, and has been passed down from generation to generation. Though the thing is I think Americans have come to ignore that phrase "In God We Trust". By the way I must disagree, christians don't force their faith on others(although I do know that some do, which isn't the way Jesus told us to spread the gospel).

[Near]

Actually, our nation was not founded on Christianity. It was founded on secularism.

The Founding Fathers of the United States are the political leaders who signed the Declaration of Independence or the United States Constitution and set forth for a secular nation. Granted some of our founding fathers may have been Christians but most did not side with any religious party and were deists, meaning they believed in a god just not a personal one. All of them however did support the Separation of Church & State and intended for this country to be a secular nation. They felt religion had no place in government and they also did not want people segregated nor rejected based on their religions or lack thereof. The fact that even the Founding Fathers who were Christians strongly wanted religion to be kept separate makes the decision even more powerful.

[Josh the Jester]

mhm...riiight I'll let you believe that. The things is many different nationalities have come from all over bringing a wide variety of different religions, so that's why our nation isn't a perfect nation; there is no perfect nation in this world. Though the things is Christianity is the largest religion in the world(even though I don't consider Christianity as a religion).

[Near]

I will keep believing that because it's history. It's fact.

Isn't U.S.A. a Christian Nation?
The church has gone out of its way to convince their followers that the United States of America was founded on Christianity and was meant to be a Christian nation. Nothing however could be further from the truth yet it is preached as truth and many who have not done any research honestly think that it true. The false claim is strictly based on the churches attempt to force their religious views on the country and thus give it more power. America was actually founded though on those fleeing religious tyranny and that's why this is the only country with a constitution against the mixing of Church & State.

[Josh the Jester]

I'm honestly not trying to verbally assualt your beliefs, I'm just throwing in my beliefs and views. my apology:o

[Doffen]

there is no perfect nation in this world.

You've honestly never been in MY country, have you? =P :p

[inkspot]

You've honestly never been in MY country, have you? =P :p
:) Doffen must come from Valhalla ...

I could not disagree more with the idea that a child ought to receive no religious/spiritual training and be expected to "choose for herself" whether she wants to believe in God or not. What kind of parent would leave a child completely uninstructed about the most important decision she can ever make, so as not to force her to do anything she didn't particularly feel like doing?

Your choice about what to believe regarding the Deity will determine whether you spend eternity in bliss with God or eternally separated from Him in endless darkness and sorrow. If I know this, and yet I refuse to point my child toward the correct decision, how can I even say I love her? I am letting her risk her eternal future ... yet I am the adult charged with caring for her?

You might just as well say that you never liked having a bedtime and would rather your parents had just let you sleep whenever you fell over from exhaustion, or never liked not being able to play in the street and wished your folks would have let you decide whether or not you wanted to play in the highway. No one would ever suggest such nonsense, yet with the one most important question of life, you're declaring your folks ought to take a hands-off approach? That's insane.

Next thing: Near, your family can't take your child away from you because you don't believe in God! Don't even let that bother you. But, I thought you were changing your mind on that score, anyway?

[inkspot]

You've honestly never been in MY country, have you? =P :p
:) Doffen must come from Valhalla ...

I could not disagree more with the idea that a child ought to receive no religious/spiritual training and be expected to "choose for herself" whether she wants to believe in God or not. What kind of parent would leave a child completely uninstructed about the most important decision she can ever make, so as not to force her to do anything she didn't particularly feel like doing?

Your choice about what to believe regarding the Deity will determine whether you spend eternity in bliss with God or eternally separated from Him in endless darkness and sorrow. If I know this, and yet I refuse to point my child toward the correct decision, how can I even say I love her? I am letting her risk her eternal future ... yet I am the adult charged with caring for her?

You might just as well say that you never liked having a bedtime and would rather your parents had just let you sleep whenever you fell over from exhaustion, or never liked not being able to play in the street and wished your folks would have let you decide whether or not you wanted to play in the highway. No one would ever suggest such nonsense, yet with the one most important question of life, you're declaring your folks ought to take a hands-off approach? That's insane.

Next thing: Near, your family can't take your child away from you because you don't believe in God! Don't even let that bother you. But, I thought you were changing your mind on that score, anyway?

[Copperfox]

Inky, this reminds me of what I've often been compelled to say: militant atheists pretend to believe that theirs is the "natural" default position, so that giving _their_ position a total monopoly of being heard by the young constitutes "neutrality" and "fairness." This heads-we-win-tails-you-lose approach is often found coupled with the denial of the plain FACT that dedicated atheist regimes HAVE oppressed believers.

Who on this forum knows what the "Pioneers" were in the Soviet Union? They were the Communist counterpart of Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Kids in Pioneers, and later in Komsomol (Communist Youth), were taught atheism with no alternative...AND YOU COULD NOT EXPECT A GOOD JOB OR GOOD COLLEGE ADMISSIONS IF YOU HAD NOT BEEN IN THESE GROUPS.

[Near]

@Inkspot

In truth, I did abandon that form of Atheism. True Atheism is what I am now. You see, even though I come on here and debate with all of you, doesn't mean I have lost any sort of respect for you or you beliefs.

I simply just like asking questions and getting people to think. And surprising, that's what Atheists are supposed to do.

Not, only that, but I'm a member on two Atheist/Non-Believer forums. Some of the members remind me of what I used to be. They almost seem like young teenagers who only say they are Atheist because it must seem cool and rebel like.

They have childishly created a nickname from the name, Yahweh, into 'Yahoo.' That's hardly funny. And it makes one look like an idiot.

Then I was having a discussion with another Atheist, someone younger then me, and he informed me that he tore the pages out of his parent's Bible.

I proceeded to tell him off. Whether one agrees with what's in a book, no one, and I mean no one should tear pages out of any book. I don't agree with the Bible, but it is a book that has been around for hundreds of years. Atheists and everyone for that matter should respect it for at least that aspect.

Many Atheists on these forums can not believe I have Christian friends. I often tell them, 'They believe I'm misguided, and I believe they are misguided. In that sense, we are exactly the same.'

[dayhawk68]

lol how many threads do we have on here discussing your views on religion??:D

[Near]

Hey now, I was all set for this thread to die. However, if my threads are that much of a bother, then I'll exit accordingly. :(

[*IOWW the Iasc*]

@Inkspot

In truth, I did abandon that form of Atheism. True Atheism is what I am now. You see, even though I come on here and debate with all of you, doesn't mean I have lost any sort of respect for you or you beliefs.

I simply just like asking questions and getting people to think. And surprising, that's what Atheists are supposed to do.

Not, only that, but I'm a member on two Atheist/Non-Believer forums. Some of the members remind me of what I used to be. They almost seem like young teenagers who only say they are Atheist because it must seem cool and rebel like.

They have childishly created a nickname from the name, Yahweh, into 'Yahoo.' That's hardly funny. And it makes one look like an idiot.

Then I was having a discussion with another Atheist, someone younger then me, and he informed me that he tore the pages out of his parent's Bible.

I proceeded to tell him off. Whether one agrees with what's in a book, no one, and I mean no one should tear pages out of any book. I don't agree with the Bible, but it is a book that has been around for hundreds of years. Atheists and everyone for that matter should respect it for at least that aspect.

Many Atheists on these forums can not believe I have Christian friends. I often tell them, 'They believe I'm misguided, and I believe they are misguided. In that sense, we are exactly the same.'

The concept of Atheism being "rebelious" is actually pretty true, in my opinion. My cousin is a prime example.
My entire family is Catholic, with the exception of my Cousin Samantha. She's the oldest and LOVES (underline x198237) attention. What better way to get attention in a Catholic family than become Atheist?
Well, when she first claimed to be Atheist, we didn't really care. As much as we'd like her to believe in Catholicism, we can't really control her or say what she should and shouldn't do; however, soon after she realized our indifference, she started throwing out anti-religious comments at me and my younger cousins (such as,"I'm reading the bible to learn about the anti-Christ!" :rolleyes:) to get a rise out of us.

I've come to the conclusion that she's only following the stereotype of what Atheists are supposed to be: God-Hating individuals who think nothing happens to you when you die. Her hypocritic actions also alude to the stereotype: she wants to learn tabout the devil, but Atheists don't believe in Gods, or anti-God's for that matter (Right? Correct me if I'm wrong.), and she takes part in all of our Christmas festivities while mocking the idea of Christ, which, in my opinion, is not only disrespectful but ridiculous. While the celebration of Christmas has become a staple of American society, religious or not, our family celebrates it as the birth of Christ, not as a shopping season. And while she knows this, our entire Christmas celebration is riddled with her anti-religious comments.

Basically, I agree with you on the difference between Atheists and Stereotypical "rebellious" Atheists.

[Near]

Atheists don't believe in god (Yahweh) or Satan. However, some have labeled Satanists as 'Atheists with attitude.'

And that makes me laugh, so much. In order to believe in Satan, you have to believe in Yahweh as well. You believe in one, you believe in the other, that simple.

[skandar_hh10]

I'll just jump in for one moment, if you don't mind.

*IOWW the Iasc* does this make sense: Since your cousin hates God, and propheses to be atheist, is she in fact proving that there is a God?

Just something to ponder.

[Copperfox]

I think that an atheist, confronted with this question, would say something like this: "No, I _don't_ hate a God that I believe exists. What I hate, strictly speaking, is the stupid _idea_ of God existing, which causes people to waste so much time and energy."

[dayhawk68]

Hey now, I was all set for this thread to die. However, if my threads are that much of a bother, then I'll exit accordingly. :(

no silly! I was jk:Dlol

[Near]

Those who hate god, but still believe in him are often called maltheists. Atheists will use this as a tool to debate with Christians/Muslims/Jews. However, a true Atheist doesn't hate god, when we don't believe in him.

A fellow Atheist posted this on the Atheist forum I reside on:

think it is important to conceptually distance those who are maltheists ("God did X which is bad, so God must be bad, and I don't like God.") from atheists who critique theism through maltheism.

I'm an atheist through and through. I do not believe in the existence of supernatural entities of any sort - including deities. That said, there is little wrong with critiquing a theist's position by pointing out that if real, his God might be a terrible, vile, and reprehensible being.

There's nothing conceptually wrong with an atheist saying, "But in the Bible it says that God forbids miscegenation. Your God is a racist!" - because the atheist is simply supplying the hidden preface 'If your God were real...'.

There are atheists who use maltheism as a critique and maltheists who actually believe in the existence of deities (but believe them to be evil). I would take odds on the idea that most people making the maltheist critique are actually atheists using it as a tool, as opposed to maltheists.

[Protagonist]

If you really want the thread to stop you could just request lock.

[Near]

If everyone is being civil, I don't see a reason to request a lock.

[Protagonist]

The only reason I'm suggesting is because I can't stand reading some of these replies our members make. Besides, we've already got a thread over this anyway.

[dayhawk68]

The only reason I'm suggesting is because I can't stand reading some of these replies our members make. Besides, we've already got a thread over this anyway.

like what for example???