View Full Version : Appearance Changes
SpiritedWolf
08-13-2008, 10:02 AM
I was just thinking about this today. Why do you think people change their appearance?? From dying their hair, to getting their nails done. Even simple things like getting braces or a hair cut? (I've done all these things but that's not the point).
Unless it's benificial to our health do you think we really need to do these things? I know when I dye my hair I get a boost of confidence, because I look like someone else.
My thought is that we do these things to improve our appearance, but then I realized, what can we improve? Or why should we? Does it mean that we're insecure with ourselves? Or is it simply something else?
Your thoughts?
(Mods, if theres a thread like this then please merge or delete)
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 10:12 AM
Sometimes it's entirely to please themselves. Take me: even if it were of absolutely no importance to anyone else on Earth, and even if I knew it would make no practical difference to my circumstances for all the rest of my life, I personally _still_ would like to be at least two inches taller.
More often, I think it's for the effect on others. But the effort can be self-defeating. Did you ever watch the sci-fi series "Firefly"? In that show, I always felt that the hooker character Inora was overrated, looks-wise; I actually thought that the girl engineer, KayLee, was BETTER-looking than Inora. And then I got my VERY FIRST CHANCE EVER to see the actress who played Inora doing an interview, MINUS the tons of slut-girl makeup. With no more than ordinary cosmetics, the actress was genuinely FAR MORE attractive than she had been in character as the "registered companion."
There is something to tell in this connection which reflects credit upon my dear departed Janalee. She always loved being stylish; on our wedding day, she had her nails done in French white-tipped fashion. But for much of our married life, she WENT WITHOUT nail jobs, which to her truly WAS a sacrifice emotionally, in order to help me economize. I like to think that now, Up There, Jan can make her nails look any way she pleases, just by willing it to be so.
I guess sometimes it's trying to change your image to fit in, because you're insecure etc
I'd like to think that in some cases its a creative output. Eg my sister has green hair because she is crazy and wacky and has to put her fizz somewhere.
SpiritedWolf
08-13-2008, 10:16 AM
No. I've never seen that show, I don't get sci fi. I don't have cable where I live.
Ok, yes, we'd all like to have something different (or most of us at least) but shouldn't we be happy with how we are? If we accept that God made us this way for a reason, then shouldn't we just accept it? Is human life really that shallow?
Is human life really that shallow?
er............yes?
SpiritedWolf
08-13-2008, 10:23 AM
Ok, what made us that shallow then? And why should it have any impact on us at all?
(sorry if I'm asking alot of questions, I'm inspired to find the truth today :o)
probably desire to find a mate.
ultimately it is what motivates us I reckon.
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 10:28 AM
I at least can say in my own favor that, in the matter of being short, I have always despised and dismissed the idea of wearing elevator shoes to SEEM taller. Deceitful fakery, as distinct from pretending things just for fun, is repugnant to me. I might have some kind of major alteration done on myself if it had a FUNCTIONAL benefit, such as improving my eyesight; but not merely for vanity. (As for MINOR alterations, I have been thinking of trying out whitening strips on my teeth, which despite my scrupulous brushing are DISGUSTINGLY yellow.)
bruiser
08-13-2008, 11:02 AM
People are shallow because they take advantage of what they have. They take advantage of what they have because they've never lived without it.
For the record. Of all of my years [fifteen years. I sounded like I was older.] I've never seriously worn make-up somewhere [you know that my 'girl friends' like to play around with me and try to get me to wear make-up while I stay with them]. I've never had my nails done. I've never been to Starbucks. I dislike shopping with a passion [except for books or CDs]. I don't have any really expensive clothing. I do shop for cloths at WalMart and Target. I don't text. I don't have a really expensive phone. I don't have internet access or a phone in my room.
I could go on. What I guess that my point would be is that people can live without some of the things that they 'have to have everyday'. With Grandma Jan, she gave up getting her nails done in order to help Papa Joe.
Now that I've made it look as if I'm as deep as an ocean, I can say that there are somethings that I do take advantage of. Examples - Books, I like to get them hot off of the press, as my mom says. Music, I couldn't go a week with out my music. Internet Access, though I can say that I've been a week without my Internet, I can say that I was almost miserable at one point, but that was around the end of the week.
Everyone is going to take advantage of something, wither they realize it or not. However I think that once one loses something that they were so dependent on, they learn to respect the fact that they were able to have it.
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 11:08 AM
Amanda, little darling, it's cool that you retroactively adopt Janalee as a grandparent also. And you ARE deeper and wiser than many girls your age. As for books and music, they can make you actually BECOME a better person, rather than DISHONESTLY PRETEND to be better than you are. I Glove you, girl.
Solya
08-13-2008, 11:18 AM
Mmm, sometimes it's about changing your image to fit in. At other times, it's about changing your image in order to stand out. Personally, I like to stand out every once in a while... but my taste in clothes and make-up etc. is by nature very 'eccentric', so I get noticed by others no matter what. Yet I have trouble spending a lot of money on clothes because I feel that I could get something more worthwhile for that amount of cash.
I sometimes dye my hair or get a haircut done because it makes me feel good about myself. The same goes for trying out new make-up or having new clothes or accessories. I don't have a problem with the way I look at all, but I like to give myself a little present every once in a while. Nothing wrong with that for as long as it doesn't consume my life.
SpiritedWolf
08-13-2008, 11:35 AM
Solya, I deffinatly agree with what you're saying. I'm the same way (mostly).
So, if we can accept ourselves, then why do so many people feel the NEED to change themselves in order to be accepted, to fit in. If people only see what brand of clothes you wear, or how tall you are, or what color your hair is, then how could they really be your friends? If they don't accept you for who you are.
So, we all (for the most part) feel the need to be accepted by others.... but at what expence are we willing to do it? Buy fancier clothes? Dye your hair? Get piercings or tattoos?
Behind every action there is a price to pay, right? So, if you chose to buy nicer things, could you get so caught up in it that you lose yourself? Could you actually become what others want you to be? And if so, is it really worth it?
bruiser
08-13-2008, 11:36 AM
Amanda, little darling, it's cool that you retroactively adopt Janalee as a grandparent also. And you ARE deeper and wiser than many girls your age. As for books and music, they can make you actually BECOME a better person, rather than DISHONESTLY PRETEND to be better than you are. I Glove you, girl.
I think that though I never really knew Jan, I still know her. It's a little hard to put into words but I think that you'll know what I mean.
The thing about my books and music is that they don't seem like they do help me become a better person because they aren't very school related or anything like that, but I guess that it would help wouldn't it? Like with life lessons and vocabulary.
I don't think that I could act like I was better than someone else. My dad wants me to be prideful when I hit a softball field, like I know that I am better than the other team and in the case of trying out that I know that I am better than the other girls. But I just can't do that. In fact I end up thinking that everyone else is better than I am. :o Which really upsets him.
I Glove you too. (:
bruiser
08-13-2008, 11:43 AM
So, if we can accept ourselves, then why do so many people feel the NEED to change themselves in order to be accepted, to fit in. If people only see what brand of clothes you wear, or how tall you are, or what color your hair is, then how could they really be your friends? If they don't accept you for who you are.
The people that you talk of, they can still be your friends, but that doesn't mean taht they are your true friends. True friends come from the inside of a person and not from how a person looks.
So, we all (for the most part) feel the need to be accepted by others.... but at what expence are we willing to do it? Buy fancier clothes? Dye your hair? Get piercings or tattoos?
Some people would do anything to be accepted into a clique. From buying more expensive clothing to getting tattoos, some people even go all out and harm thoes around them just to fit in. Take gangs for example.
Behind every action there is a price to pay, right? So, if you chose to buy nicer things, could you get so caught up in it that you lose yourself? Could you actually become what others want you to be? And if so, is it really worth it?
Yes to the first question. Yes to the second question. Yes to the third question. The thing about becoming what others want you to be, is that you aren't yourself. And No to the last question.
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 11:49 AM
Amanda, honey, Mr. Lewis wrote that wholesome humility does not consist in repeating to yourself, "I am inferior!" Instead, it consists in more frequently _forgetting_ yourself, to give more attention to things and persons _outside_ yourself. Books and music may be helping you do just that.
SpiritedWolf
08-13-2008, 11:49 AM
The thing about becoming what others want you to be, is that you aren't yourself. And No to the last question.
Ok, so if it's not worth it.... then why do people change themselves? Is it a selfish desire? Or just human instinct? And if it is instinct, can we shut it out?
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 12:09 PM
(As for MINOR alterations, I have been thinking of trying out whitening strips on my teeth, which despite my scrupulous brushing are DISGUSTINGLY yellow.)
I've been thinking caps for mine, lol, note to everyone with children or planning on having them: DON"T LET THEM SUCK LEMONS. that was a favorite thing of mine, and now my teeth are ruined.and rather discolored....
why do humans feel the need to alter themselves? as a VERY self conscious person, I alter a lot of things in an attempt to not stick out, or if I do to be thought of as pretty, not just "that tall, heavy girl, who talks to fast and too loud."
I was REALLY bad a year or so ago...but now I'm more or less forcing myself to accept myself as I am...while I still use makeup, its not as much as I once did, and only because I think its pretty (I'm considering a career in cosmetic and hair) I don't bother with my hair, and now, whenever I want to I wear heels. If someone thinks I'm a freak because I'm 6' tall in them thats their problem
its just human nature to want to be accepted and not be thought of as "unfortunate looking"
bruiser
08-13-2008, 12:11 PM
Ok, so if it's not worth it.... then why do people change themselves? Is it a selfish desire? Or just human instinct? And if it is instinct, can we shut it out?
I think that it is a bit of both. People have to desire to be 'the best' and to fit in. It's more a choice of: Can I be my own person or should I go along with the crowd?
People just don't realize that somethings are just not worth it because it's all that they know. Take cliques at any highschool for example, since this is where everything starts. A person is either molded into a clique or they are a loner [I know that there are some people that hang out with everyone and I'll get to that in a second, bear with me.] Well since one goes through all of their highschool years in a certain clique that is all that they know. So they wouldn't know exactly how to shut out everything that they know in order to be 'less shallow' [I guess you could say].
The people that hang with everyone are normally the people who are most secure about themselves. At first I was a loner, I only hung out with thoes like me, now that I've gotten used to highschool and I am finally 'getting to know the true me' I have started talk to others out of my group. I have friends that are Nerds, Jocks, one or two friends that are Preps, Goths, you name it I could probably name a friend or two of mine that would fit in that catagory. [But that is another topic.]
do we want to shut it out?
it is good to strive for improvement. OK, physical appearance may not be the best thing to decide to improve/alter to what you think is an improvement, but it is part of the instinct to better oneself.
I think I may be disagreeing partly for the sake of disagreeing: I'm with Bruiser/Amanda (I don't know what to call you sorry) on the books over clothes and the inside counting more than the outside, but there is a lot given to physical appearance all the way through history, so there may (sadly) be something in it.
And animals go on appearance, eg peacock's displays.
bruiser
08-13-2008, 12:20 PM
do we want to shut it out?
it is good to strive for improvement. OK, physical appearance may not be the best thing to decide to improve/alter to what you think is an improvement, but it is part of the instinct to better oneself.
I think I may be disagreeing partly for the sake of disagreeing: I'm with Bruiser/Amanda (I don't know what to call you sorry) on the books over clothes and the inside counting more than the outside, but there is a lot given to physical appearance all the way through history, so there may (sadly) be something in it.
And animals go on appearance, eg peacock's displays.
Answering a question with another question? :p You do have a point though. That is if apperances are instinct rather than just will. But if they are just instinct, explain how some of us could just care less about what others think of us.
You can call me either. I'll answer. Amanda, Mander, Manda, Bruiser, you get that point. Just don't call me Mandy. :p
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 12:24 PM
Amanda-Panda, I'm pleased that you cross categories when making friends.
Celebrion, I can tell you from life experience that tall females are NOT so much despised as short males are.
SpiritedWolf
08-13-2008, 12:25 PM
But if they are just instinct, explain how some of us could just care less about what others think of us.
Thats a good point! I know some people that could be walking around in a paper bag with leaves in their hair and they would still feel like a princess! And others who would take another paper bag and put it over their head, before they crawl into their own personal hole.
bruiser
08-13-2008, 12:57 PM
Thats a good point! I know some people that could be walking around in a paper bag with leaves in their hair and they would still feel like a princess! And others who would take another paper bag and put it over their head, before they crawl into their own personal hole.
That's why I say that changing apperances is both instinct and desire, but desire trumphs over instinct.
I just don't care about my apperance. Don't like how I look, shut your eyes. I mean I am going to care if I look like I live in a barn, but I am not going to to act like I am going to be in a fashion show when I am only going out to WalMart. I dress up -ish when I feel the need to, but I also dress down when I feel like. My favorite thing to wear are my navy shorts [boy shorts not thoes skimpy short shorts] and a hoodie with my four year old Etnies.
Don't get me started about shoes though, I seriously don't see why some girls want to wear shoes that kill their feet just to look taller and what not.
Just to add in for my Papa Joe: As you know I was to get my class schedule yesturday and I did, well upon looking at it I found that I had a class on there that I didn't sign up for and I had no clue what it could be. So I asked on of the male teachers there that was passing out the schedules what it could be, and he said that it was humanities [or something to that extinct]. He said that it was a very high thinking level class and that he was suprised that the highschool was even having this class, and he said that I was very lucky to get this class because it meant that someone in the school thinks that I am a very intelligent student. The class, he said, was a class that teaches the links between literature and history instead of seperating the subjects. It made me feel special. :]
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 01:00 PM
lol, those shoes that kill your feet are ADORABLE!!!! I can't think of a better argument. they just are, and I don't need the extra height!
bruiser
08-13-2008, 01:07 PM
I don't really need the extra height either, I don't really want it. Unless it would help with softball, then bring on the next couple of inches! lol.
Ugh. I don't like cute. I rather feel good and comfortable than have shoes that kill me because they 'look adoreable'. :rolleyes:
HugsForReepicheep
08-13-2008, 01:09 PM
Ugh. I don't like cute. I rather feel good and comfortable than have shoes that kill me because they 'look adoreable'. :rolleyes:
Shoes can be both comfortable and adorable at the same time, you know. ;)
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 01:11 PM
Amanda, you ARE special. <3 (I'm sure you're _astonished_ that I think so.) The teacher is right that literature and history should be seen as linked. For instance, before the American Revolutionary War, you'd be _less_ likely to see books being written saying that monarchy is a bad idea! And _since_ the civil rights movement, you're _more_ likely to see stories being written with interracial romances.
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 01:12 PM
very true...but I'm usually the one that buys the shoes even if I have to stuff the toes with paper towels! ( heels are about the only wardrobe item I'll suffer for though)
bruiser
08-13-2008, 01:16 PM
I think that I only own one pair of heels and that was only because my mom made me wear them to go to church. I like boots though. Espically my light brown coyboy boots, the real thing of course since some of my family used to run a country clothing store. XD
hehe. I'm always astonished to know that you thing so much of me, when I have many odvious faults. When he was telling me about what the course entailed I thought about you and your stories. :p I knew that it would make you proud that I got picked out of a ton of other people to take this course. :] The thing that got my parents was that I accually _wanted_ to take this course. I'm not the biggest history fan so normally an elective with a history course was out of the question.
Catherine
08-13-2008, 01:16 PM
the only time i'll wear uncomfortable shoes is when i go to church. and that's only because my fave pair of three year old, beat-up, grass-stained Nike's don't look so great with a skirt. still, i try to find shoes that look nice and are fairly comfortable.
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 01:22 PM
lol, thats one thing I will NEVER be caught in. Cowboy boots. (I live in a VERY red-neck place and well...perhaps my brothers prom pic will explain my reluctance to associate myself to that)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/Caity_Lynn_Susan/PROM003.jpg
this conversation suddenly turned into a fashion discussion!:rolleyes:
bruiser
08-13-2008, 01:22 PM
I still wear my comfortable shoes when I go to church. If I go to church is more like it. I mean the dressiest that I get is a blouse with a blue jean skirt and my Etnies or my Vans, which ever match. :o
bruiser
08-13-2008, 01:24 PM
lol, thats one thing I will NEVER be caught in. Cowboy boots. (I live in a VERY red-neck place and well...perhaps my brothers prom pic will explain my reluctance to associate myself to that)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/Caity_Lynn_Susan/PROM003.jpg
this conversation suddenly turned into a fashion discussion!:rolleyes:
I don't see what's wrong with what they are wearing. Seriously I don't.
Catherine
08-13-2008, 01:27 PM
i live in a very red-neck place too. the night of my sister's prom, i saw some other people walking around, and i saw three guys wearing carhartt (sp) boots with their suits to go to prom.
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 01:38 PM
I'm originally from Pennsylvania....so, clothes like that are a bit of a cultural shock to me...where as if we were to live in , say Texas, they would be ok, but who they are and how they behave goes along with the clothes they are wearing, so thats why I avoid them.
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 01:38 PM
Amanda, sweetheart, history is about EVERYONE and EVERYTHING! How can it NOT be interesting? For instance:
Back when America was still colonial territory, the Romanov imperial dynasty was established in Russia. The first Romanov emperor needed a bride; and, in a sort of Cinderella-story situation, he invited wealthy families from all over Russia to bring their eligible daughters to "audition." When all were gathered, the emperor told them, "All of you get a good night's sleep, so you'll be ready for the judging tomorrow." What he didn't tell them was that he had peepholes to look into all their bedrooms. No, this was NOT in order to see them naked; rather, after they were all asleep, he wanted to see the expressions on their faces. He felt that this would show their true personalities. The very sweetest expression he saw was not on any of the official candidates, but on the MAIDSERVANT of one of the candidates. Therefore, the next day, the emperor announced that THIS girl (named Yevdokiya, which we would render as Eudocia) was the one he would marry and crown as empress.
bruiser
08-13-2008, 01:39 PM
So you're saying that because I mostly wear black cloths you'd avoid me? Ouch that hurts.
Amanda, sweetheart, history is about EVERYONE and EVERYTHING! How can it NOT be interesting? For instance:
Back when America was still colonial territory, the Romanov imperial dynasty was established in Russia. The first Romanov emperor, in a sort of Cinderella-story situation, invited wealthy families from all over Russia to bring their eligible daughters to "audition." When all were gathered, the emperor told them, "All of you get a good night's sleep, so you'll be ready for the judging tomorrow." What he didn't tell them was that he had peepholes to look into all their bedrooms. No, this was NOT in order to see them naked; rather, after they were all asleep, he wanted to see the expressions on their faces. He felt that this would show their true personalities. The very sweetest expression he saw was not on any of the official candidates, but on the MAIDSERVANT of one of the candidates. Therefore, the next day, the emperor announced that THIS girl (named Yevdokiya, which we would render as Eudocia) was the one he would marry and crown as empress.See that's interesting. School has this ability to make everything seem dull. The teachers at my school, most of them not all, just don't care. Their students would rather be out in the parking lot smoking so the teachers half way teach and it's just not interesting. I am hopeing that because this class is going to help tie everything together I'll like history more and impress my history teacher. XD
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 01:42 PM
me? no...I have friends in every social stereo type...but my brother and his friends just arent th best people, even though I DO have friends in their group...but it's more their behavior then the clothes, and I can't stand it therefore I avoid the clothes.It's an association thing.
bruiser
08-13-2008, 01:45 PM
Guilty by assoication. XP Okay, I was about to say, you'd stay away from me just because I wear black and what not. I've been told that I'm a pretty interesting person. XD
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 01:48 PM
lol, if you wear black, most likely we'd hit it off, at school theirs the lunch table of goth/emo/skater/whatevers in black...then their me in a pink t-shirt sitting at the same table :rolleyes: I could care less about stereotypes.
Solya
08-13-2008, 02:05 PM
Sooo, there's also the idea of 'dressing up in order to belong to a specific subculture'. ;) I guess that's a part of human nature, though. Everyone wants to belong somewhere. I count myself among the lucky few whose lives aren't dominated by fashion or by a struggle to belong to a particular group, but even I like to feel like I belong somewhere. Even if that sense of belonging is just restricted to the way I feel I should be.
bruiser
08-13-2008, 02:06 PM
Sweet. (: Though I never wear pink. haha.
I had this black guy come and sit beside me on the bus [I'm not being racist I promise], didn't ask or anything, he just expected me to move my things over and make more room for him, I didn't. He'd have to learn how to ask before I'd do it. He turned and looked at me and said, 'Little white girl aren't you scared of me?' I said no and he said, 'Good, I like that.' And patted my shoulder, got up and left. Now we say hey to each other. It was a little weird, but pretty funny.
How that had anything to do with the subject I don't know. Be creative. XD
Catherine
08-13-2008, 02:09 PM
^lol.
i don't really belong to a particular group, I've got friends in lots of different ones, so i just sorta flit between them. wish is fine with me.
bruiser
08-13-2008, 02:16 PM
Same here, though I feel more at home with some groups than others I can still carry on a conversation with almost anyone. :D
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 03:24 PM
I'm not racist, my best friend fr YEARS was African American, so as long as they don't dress frighteningly (and I could care less if they were whit or black, the drooping pants and sideways pants frighten me when I'm walking alone on the street) I don't care. My family is pretty racist though....not my mother, but my brother, and slightly my Dad, but neither of them will say anything to another race when their there...they treat them with respect...its confusing.
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 03:33 PM
I've been around a lot, and I see almost NO racism coming FROM "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants" anymore. But PLENTY of mindless, emotion-drunk racism coming in the other direction, from persons who have been taught to believe that they're allowed to hold grudges and feel sorry for themselves without limit. This is not because today's racists are any worse in genetic material than anyone else, but because politically-correct culture has programmed them this way (and of course, they have consented to be programmed because it strokes their ego).
inkspot
08-13-2008, 04:34 PM
Does anyone watch "What not to wear" on TLC channel? It is one of the guilty pleasures of my life that I Tivo every new "What Not to Wear" program.
Over and over again, I have seen people who dress like slobs, or dress really wacky, or dress in clothes that don't fit or just don't flatter, say, "I don't care about appearances! What's important is what's inside. If you can't accept that, it's your problem."
Then they get fashion advice from experts and $5,000 to spend on a new wardrobe and a new hair cut and professional make-up, and at the end of the program, they glow. More often than not, they admit that:
* They were hiding in the ill-fitting clothes and hoping no one would look at them.
* They dressed wacky so that no one would take them seriously and think that they were trying to be pretty.
* They just didn't know how to dress themselves in clothes that flattered before, so they quit trying.
I don't think "clothes make the man," but I do think when you know you look good, you have more confidence, and girls, we do shine when we know we look good. You can say, "I look great!" when you're dressed like a clown, but the fact is, you know inside that you look like a clown and no one is going to take you seriously. When you actually do look great, that's when the confidence shines through.
It's not shallow at all to want to look your best. It shows respect for yourself, and it shows respect for your mate (if you have one) and for those with whom you'll be interacting. If I go to me mum's 50th birthday party dressed in mismatched clothes and declare, "It's just my style!" that is totally disrespectful to her. If I go to my job dressed in jeans with holes in the knees, it's disrespectful to my employer. If I go out looking like the bride of Frankenstein when it isn't Halloween, it shows I don't have much respect for myself.
As for changing your physical appearance, why not? Even a girl on a budget can file and paint her nails and brush her hair.
HugsForReepicheep
08-13-2008, 04:41 PM
Well said, inkspot!! I not only happen to agree with you in several points, but also happen to be guilty of watching 'What not to wear' everytime I can as well! :D (with no guilt whatsoever!)
inkspot
08-13-2008, 04:46 PM
Well said, inkspot!! I not only happen to agree with you in several points, but also happen to be guilty of watching 'What not to wear' everytime I can as well! :D (with no guilt whatsoever!)
I love Clinton. He is so cute and funny. I love Stacy, too.
:)
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 04:47 PM
don't have tv, but that show sounds great!!!
HugsForReepicheep
08-13-2008, 04:51 PM
I love Clinton. He is so cute and funny. I love Stacy, too.
:)
I like them both, and Nick and Carmindy as well. Me and my sister laugh a lot at their comments. We - ok, this makes me feel a little bit guilty - have bought their book, also called 'What not to wear'. It's as fun as the show!
inkspot
08-13-2008, 04:55 PM
No way! I did not know they had a book. I must have it. I know, I laugh at their comments all the time.
HugsForReepicheep
08-13-2008, 05:08 PM
I've mistaken the name, it's Dress Your Best, but I found it at Amazon (hope it's ok to post the link; if not, let me now and I'll edit later): http://www.amazon.com/Dress-Your-Best-Complete-Finding/dp/0307236714/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218661522&sr=1-1
There's nothing like wandering around the book shop and founding some precious things... :p
inkspot
08-13-2008, 05:37 PM
Oh, thank you! I must get that next time I have some money. I like Nick and Carmindy, too. It's very entertaining! I got my husband watching it, too, so now he can point out good things about my outfits, and he imitates Clinton as he does ... :)
OK, so back to the thread. What do we think about cosmetic surgery? I am all for it if you want to fix a scar or even give yourself a better figure, but I also think some people get hung up on it, like my friend Big Gay Luke who is 42 or so and has had about 15 procedures!
bruiser
08-13-2008, 06:27 PM
Some things in plastic sugery are okay, like you stated scars and what not. But do people seriously need a new nose just because you broke it when you were seven? I mean there are some things that people could [and in my opinion should] live without. Now if a dog has bit half of your nose off and you want to fix that, now that is reasonable.
I truely am just fine as is. I don't 'dress up' often and I've never worn makeup but I can honestly say that I am basically okay with how I look. I mean yeah, I should work out more often and lose some weight, but it doesn't bother me as much as it used to. I'm still not getting in a bathing suit though. I haven't been swimming in _years_ mainly because of that, but I don't really miss it. [shrugs] I'm pretty content with how I look.
Copperfox
08-13-2008, 06:34 PM
If you ARE content with how you look, then DON'T deprive yourself of the healthy exercise of swimming because a swimsuit suddenly makes you NOT content with how you look. I promise you, there'll be plenty of people swimming who look worse.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-13-2008, 06:42 PM
I agree with what you said about plastic sergery but some people are just unhappy with their body and getting surgey is the only way they will be happier.
For say someone was compleatly flat chested and they were teased endlessly and they'd never dated or even had interest from a boy, then they went and got a boob job and they felt so much more confident and people stopped the teasing and guys looked at her and she felt so much better.
Would thar be wrong??
Im not saying thats me but I'm just saying some people like to use it to stop themselves being teesed or unnoticed.
To be honest im quite happy with my body, i do slap on makeup and spend ages on my hiar but i like the way i look im just vain lol.
I mean i spend way too much time on hear and im getting fat but ill loose it when i get back to school cas ill go to the Gym again lol.
Celebrion Seregon
08-13-2008, 06:50 PM
if I had the money for plastic surgery...I would. Scars would be gone, I would be thin, I would have teeth caps, heck If they could figure out a way to remove bones to give me a smaller bone structure I would. Unfortunately they don't and I'm broke...I used to not go swimming, and while I still HATE to show myself in a swim suit, I go...I love it too much. as I said before, I'm really self conscious...and about 30 lbs over weight...so me showing any amount of skin is a big deal...my mother got so used to never seeing me in anything that showed my legs that when I bought a skirt that came just below me knees she freaked.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-13-2008, 06:52 PM
lol
I dont were skirts much
I dont perticually like my legs much, least not the tops.
inkspot
08-13-2008, 07:03 PM
I agree with CF on the swim suit deal. You can't claim, "I'm OK with how I look ... but I never swim because I look bad in a swim suit." If I couldn't swim, I'd go stark raving. And I don't look like any prize in a swim suit, but I love the water!
If you don't like the way you look, I think there's no harm in doing whatever you like )that's legal nd safe) to change it. And even people who are 30 lbs overweight can look good if they find clothes that flatter them. No girl should be afraid to wear a skirt just because she doesn't like her legs. I seriously would recommend Stacy and Clinton's book cuz the jacket cover says they say what looks good on what body types, so who knows? They might help you find exactly the kind of skirt or dress that looks great and you can show your legs.
Nobody needs to hide in their clothes! Figure out what looks good, and wear that.
And I agree with EdwardCullen, if a new rack would make you feel great, go for it (if you have the money and a good doctor and are an adult). One of my girl friends, her husband died when they were both quite young. She's a gorgeous girl, a tomboy type with a great athletic body, and it never occured to me that there was anything wrong with her figure. A while after she was widowed, she got plastic surgery to enhance her figure, and it was odd ... she still looked great ... but if I had not known that's what she had done, I would not have noticed, I don't think. She just made herself look more balanced, and better -- to herself. So, why not? Same thing for noses, I think -- if you've never liked your nose, what's the harm in getting it fixed?
As long as you are putting Christ first in your life and feel like He is OK with it, why not go for it? I mean, we comb our hair and trim our nails and keep ourselves clean, that's all about appearances ... As long as you know that appearances aren't the most important thing, I think it makes you feel great to look your best.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-13-2008, 07:10 PM
^^^ Agree
With the whole skirt issue, i find other clothes that look great on me or wear the greatest invention for skirts ever... tights lol.
Thing is over hear its not often warm enough to were a skirt so i find other clothes that flatter my figure like Skinnies!!!
I love my skinnies!!!
bruiser
08-14-2008, 12:36 AM
I have other things that I do besides swimming that are healthy.
I think that just because I don't like wearing bathing suits doesn't mean that I can not be content with how I look. I mean I understand what you are saying: 'Well if you're so content with how you look then why don't you put on a bathing suit and go for a dip?'
I guess I just like lying to myself or something. I guess that truthfully I'm not pleased at all with how I look. I'm too fat, I could care less what's in style, I hate makeup [though I should invest in some], I need a hair cut, and I should wear things that are dressy and make me 'glow'.
Copperfox
08-14-2008, 01:05 AM
Amanda, in the last photo I saw of you, you looked pretty to me. Granted, it was not a head-to-foot picture; but I doubt that anyone as athletic as you can be seriously fat. Perhaps you have subconsciously bought into the modern demand for a toothpick-skinny figure? Frankly, I find that sickening, and for most women it is dangerously unhealthy besides.
In my life so far I have loved and married two women. Each of them had meat on her bones, and that was JUST FINE. When I see them in their immortal bodies in Heaven, I don't expect them to be revoltingly skinny THERE, either. So what's good enough for them is good enough for my granddaughter-in-spirit! Without needing actually to see you in a swimsuit, I declare on my grandfatherly authority that you DO look okay enough in one to let yourself be seen without embarrassment. And I warn you.....if you DARE to contradict me about this, you jeopardize the GUG Treaty, which could result in an all-out Glove War, with you and me furiously shooting lavish assurances of tender mutual love and loyalty at each other in a frantic duel of reciprocal affection and attachment and Gloving devotion!!
bruiser
08-14-2008, 01:16 AM
Well I think [I may be wrong] but by medical standards I am technically over weight. I try not to think of myself as fat or anything like that, but I am deffinately bigger than a model. I have broad shoulders, wide hips, I wear sizes 12-14 in blue jeans. I don't want to be a toothpick. I would love to be an average person. I do know that if I did lose a signifigant amount of weight I wouldn't be such a power hitter in softball as I am now.
Truthfully I am extremely self concious. I do dislike the fact that there are people out there that can honestly say that they are pretty and they know it.
I don't think that I would want to jeopardize our GUG Treaty. :p
I haven't been in a swimsuit in about five years, so maybe I'll look better in one than I did, but I can honestly say that I am not going to get back into a swimsuit soon, because there's no where to swim.
[I'll have to post a full body picture of me in my album on here with my waterfalls and butterflies.]
Copperfox
08-14-2008, 01:35 AM
Okay, no affectionately mushy hostilities FOR NOW...but realize that there simply ARE various body types, whereas I'm pretty sure that height-weight standards were devised with a "One size fits all" philosophy.
You don't have to post a full-body picture of yourself to prove any points if it makes you uncomfortable.
(THIRTY-second Gug)
bruiser
08-14-2008, 01:40 AM
If it made me feel uncomfortable then I wouldn't of even mentioned it. ;) But now that I've literally gone through every photo on my computer I've discovered that I don't truely even have a full body photo. :o I guess I was worse off than I thought.
Have you seen the photos on here that I have put up? Just wondering. :p
Ohh dang. Thirty whole seconds. You sure do know how to make someone feel special and Gloved. :]
Copperfox
08-14-2008, 09:11 AM
Amanda, I've seen photos of your cute face and of butterflies. By the way, hugging you in an imaginary virtual fashion has the advantage that I don't have to worry about you smelling my armpits. So....FORTY-second Gug!
bruiser
08-14-2008, 09:37 AM
hehe. Now I'm sure that you wouldn't smell that bad. :p It also has the advantage that you don't have to see how messy my hair looks and how bad my true 'fashion sense' is. :D
I didn't know if you had seen them because I had put one of the waterfalls that we had discussed earlier in there. (:
Copperfox
08-14-2008, 09:55 AM
I have searched at great length and been unable to find any waterfalls. You made me imagine them so vividly when you first wrote to me about your _anticipation_ of seeing them, that my mind must have sucked the images right in, erasing your photos from wherever it was you posted them. <3
bruiser
08-14-2008, 10:01 AM
Since the cookies are baking....
:]
The photos are in my album on my page. :p If they won't come up or you can't find them, just imagine a huge 50 foot [at least] waterfall [straight drop] with a area at the bottom that is big enough for a swimming hole but not deep enough to dive. (: It was really pretty. One of my personal favorites so I figured that you would like it.
<3
Copperfox
08-14-2008, 10:05 AM
I _did_ look in your album, little darling, but all I could see was the one very nice butterfly shot. Don't sweat it. I'm about to go for an exercise walk. So far today (knock on wood) I've had no new dizzy spells.
bruiser
08-14-2008, 10:13 AM
Dang. Did you click on it? Hmmm. I going to have to look into that, but I promise that I won't get worked up over it. :]
I hope you have a nice walk, and I hope that it isn't as foggy on your side as it is over here. :p
That's great. Maybe you won't have anymore. [Knock on wood]
Copperfox
08-14-2008, 10:15 AM
You caught me before leaving. Yes, I clicked. And fog is very rare in the Denver area.
bruiser
08-14-2008, 10:42 AM
Dang. I'll post them somewhere else so you can 'see' them, see them. :p
It was really foggy here this morning. Not the bad fog though, nice fog. If you know about what I am talking. XD
Celebrion Seregon
08-14-2008, 11:11 AM
Amanda, well, we're both in the same boat then, lol, I'm a size 12 as well :rolleyes: didn't you love when that was considered "medium" not X-L? fashion is despicable, those stick thin girls are REALLY bad looking in real life....we're regressing back to the flapper age , boyish figures are sought after on girls.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 11:26 AM
What you guys ar an american size 12???
bruiser
08-14-2008, 11:27 AM
w00t! Go us with the truely 'medium' sized figures. haha.
I've always grown up a tom-boy so it's just how I dress. I mean most of my 'good' friends are guys or other tom-boys like myself, so.
Speaking of tom-boy, I am wearing a hoodie and a pair of shorts. XD
I'm not into fashion at all. Like with 'jewlery' things like that, I make my own necklaces and braclets. You know thoes rope braclets that all of the 'cool' people wore. It was a braid looking thing and the only color that I ever saw that they were in was white. Yeah well, just to prove a point [to myself], and because I wanted to see if I could do it, I made one. Except it is pink [ugh. pink. :P] and it is a necklace. Looks almost just like the other ones that people pay at least $8 for.
I also make braclets and things like that using that flat plastic string, it was a very popular thing back a few years ago. I know several different ways to make things with that.
I also use just, I guess you could say, regular string to make some things.
I'm a pretty crafty person sometimes. :p
bruiser
08-14-2008, 11:32 AM
What you guys ar an american size 12???
12-14 yeah. Not youth size though. XD
It really depends on the style of the clothing, sometimes I can wear 10's. Which almost makes me want to dance. (:
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 11:34 AM
Yeah i know, you would be average over hear, you'd be a size 8-10 like me!!!
Celebrion Seregon
08-14-2008, 11:35 AM
oh, wow! *moves* lol,
and I used to be really tomboyish...like, really so, now I'm pretty girlish...and I make jewlery as well! this is neat! I can do the hemp ones, but I"m, pretty bad at it...I do metal work, like with links and what not, its a lot easier than it looks!
bruiser
08-14-2008, 11:38 AM
Dude, I'm moving. XD
Sweet. I've never tried metal before, but I did my first hemp braclet the other night. At 5am. haha. I couldn't sleep.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 11:39 AM
I used to be a tomboy too but then my hormones kicked in and i became really girly, like i would never have dreamed of wearing a skirt and now i were them all the time lol.
well with tights and when its nice
unlike now cas its thunder storming!!!
Celebrion Seregon
08-14-2008, 11:42 AM
lol, I wear skirts ALL the time, they're more comforatble than pants....but that may be because I had to wear them as uniforms the first 12 years of my life, lol, I even wore them when I was a tomboy...like, I could climb trees and run faster than the guys in them :rolleyes: I don't know exactly what changed me, I guess the stupid dad and brother not letting me do anything in the garage, so I went inside...and started sewing and somewhere I went from climbing trees to knitting. lol
bruiser
08-14-2008, 11:45 AM
The only time I wear skirts is when I personally feel the need to or I am told that I have to. Even for my Honors Biology Science Fair thing, I wore blue jeans and a MCR jacket. There were people that seriously dressed up, as in like tuxs. I didn't hurt anyone's feelings by doing what I did and I got better grades then most of the people that had dressed up. XD
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 11:51 AM
lol^^^
Well i think I'm also girly cas i do a lot of mothering to my little brother.
My mum's ill so when it comes to doing things like swimming or going out and stuff I'm the only girl there so i act like the mother and keep my brother and dad in check lol.
So thats brought out my mothering side which in turn made me more feminine.
Celebrion Seregon
08-14-2008, 11:59 AM
that would most likely do it! and I'm sorry about your mother.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 12:03 PM
Thanks,
but yeah so i have to play mum to my dad and brother
bruiser
08-14-2008, 12:30 PM
Wow. I know that that can get very tiring fast. I mean just trying to take care of my little brother is horrid, but hopefully your brother isn't anything like mine. Sometimes I think my brother is the Antichrist. Geez. He's only ten, but he cusses like a sailor. If he doesn't stop then I am going to slap the demon out of him. Ugh.
Copperfox
08-14-2008, 01:02 PM
I think your poor little brother is pathetically trying to become "tough" in response to the bullying you say he has encountered. OHH, how FURIOUS it makes me when evil older children, old enough to know EXACTLY what they're doing, torment a smaller child for months, including with bodily violence, and then brain-dead adults minimize it as "teasing."
bruiser
08-14-2008, 01:14 PM
You must know that it angers me to. Thoes little kids better hope that they don't pick on my brother while I'm around, cause I'm sick of it. I don't want Trey going through the same childhood that I went through, being bullied all of the time.
Just because he wants to look 'fierce' in front of everyone doesn't mean that he has to cuss. One day he's going to say the wrong thing and he's seriously going to get hurt.
My parents are trying to get him into a new school, hopefully we won't get denied... again.... like the past _two_ times.
Copperfox
08-14-2008, 01:40 PM
Amanda, honey, make that a prayer thread, for your brother to be able to change schools!
bruiser
08-14-2008, 02:14 PM
I just did. It's called Oh Brother! If you want to read the 'whole story'. It may help fill in somethings, though I think that I've alreday told you most of what is happening with Trey.
Bruiser/Amanda obviously I don't know your brother but I hope he has luck for a new school.
Bullying is miserable.
Do you think boys are pressurised about their appearance as much as girls?
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 05:53 PM
I dont think they are but there is still some pressure.
Celebrion Seregon
08-14-2008, 05:55 PM
Depends on the guy...I've known guys who take more time getting dressed than I do...not to mention more time on thei hair....heck, I know a guy that BLOW DRIES his hair...I don't even do that!!! and then I know guys who just run their fingers through it, grab a cap and off they go.
I meant more influenced by their peers and the media.
i know a boy who owns more pairs of shoes than me and my sister put together lol
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 05:59 PM
yeah i guess but i don't really think their pressure just guys like to look good.
Theres probably more pressure from girls for guys to look good cas then they go out with them but guys are usually supportive of others unless their gay cas some guys are uncomfortable being around gay guys...
so you don't think guys are encouraged to macho up?
I know cliques encourage dressing the same styles eg chavs and gang cultures but are they encouraged to change their bodies like girls are?
leaving gay people out of it for now, they are quite probably a whole different kettle of fish.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 06:12 PM
Yeah i agree about the whole looking better
but thats userally for the girls again
aargh I'm really sorry and it's probably cos I'm absolutely shattered and not reading it probably but your post doesn't make any sense to me at all *hangs head in shame*
could you possibly clarify?
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 06:18 PM
Im saying that most of the pressure for guys to look good comes from Girls.
If a guy wants a girl then then they must look good be fit and have nice hair.
Guys dont usually put pressure on each other to look good, its the pressure from girls that makes them want to look good.
ah ok
thanks
my brain is going into meltdown. I think it's a cue to go to bed.
nos da anyone.
uniquemonke
08-14-2008, 06:23 PM
yeah i agree
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-14-2008, 06:23 PM
See what im saying
Night Gair
Kells
08-15-2008, 02:08 AM
Then they get fashion advice from experts and $5,000 to spend on a new wardrobe and a new hair cut and professional make-up, and at the end of the program, they glow. More often than not, they admit that:
* They were hiding in the ill-fitting clothes and hoping no one would look at them.
* They dressed wacky so that no one would take them seriously and think that they were trying to be pretty.
* They just didn't know how to dress themselves in clothes that flattered before, so they quit trying.
I know it doesn't go for everyone, but I used to do that. I was a very late bloomer - I only needed a bra in high school cause I didn't want to be completely uncovered in the gym locker room and finally developed hips (or at least hip bones :p ) last year. So I would wear baggy jeans and boys t shirts that swallowed me up and tie my hair in a tight knot at the back of my head.
I was still flat as a board when I started wearing girl's clothes again and enjoying it. I learned how flappers were considered attractive and thought maybe I could do it, too.
Since then, I've been thinking that it isn't about dressing to fit someone else's standard but figuring out, loving, and learning to accentuate what is beautiful about you.
I've started to regard myself as an art project - sure I will be the same girl whether I have spent an hour on my hair and makeup, or been stuck out all day in the rain, but it is fun to piece together an outfit no one else would have thought of, or to have a tattoo that means something special to me, or to take scissors to my hair and come out with something I am excited about.
I see no harm, as long as it does not replace having character or is done to please somebody else.
inkspot
08-15-2008, 09:47 AM
Very smart, Kells. You know, by now of course, that you are a real beauty. Nobody should worry overmuch about under-development or over-development while you're growing up -- when you get to be an adult, if you're still unhappy with your body shape, then you can consider what you want to do about it. But all of us need to think about what Kells suggests: accentuate what make you feel beautiful. :)
You know, in a way it is also natural for boys to want to look good for girls: in nature a lot of times, it's the male who gets all the pretty plumage and the big man or whatever, just for that purpose, to attract the girls.
Lord of Light
08-15-2008, 09:52 AM
Haha, great way to put it Inky!:D
Except I somewhat don't really care what people think of me...for example, quite a few years ago, I was told I was wierd. Then, after much thinking over that simple phrase, I realized something that rather changed my opinion of every single person. And it was this simple: everyone is wierd and different in some way, so is there a normal? Most certainly not.
Personally, I struggle a lot with my appearance. I've always been a little bit overweight, and while I'm not really fat, I get self-conscious when I look at the other girls at school, many of whom are really skinny. Of course, there are some other girls who are my size or larger, but I still feel out of place. Especially because I don't wear the same type of clothing as everyone else and I hardly ever wear make-up. And while many girls at school are getting compliments from their friends all the time that they're so "Pretty" and "hot", the only comments I get are from adults (mostly my family) who say I have good skin or eyes or whatever. (Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it when they say that!) I don't know... it's not that I don't like the body God gave me, but sometimes I feel weird.
Lord of Light
08-15-2008, 10:00 AM
Personally, I struggle a lot with my appearance. I've always been a little bit overweight.
I understand what you mean, as I see young women pressured by this thing all the time.
I however am bothered by something that's more inverse...I can't get my weight to what it should be. In fact, I am actually about 30 pounds under what I should weigh.(according to height and age)
30lb under sheesh.
eat more chocolate =)
I used to get teased really badly for 'looking like a boy' at secondary school. Chest like an ironing board, twiggy arms and legs and short hair.
Now I've gone in the opposite direction and get wolfwhistled at adn harrassed by te local youth (who I'm going to push in the canal very soon).
I can't decide which is worse.
Lord of Light
08-15-2008, 10:09 AM
30lb under sheesh.
eat more chocolate =)
I eat almost all day:D...and I still can't gain much weight...but that may be due to the activities I do otherwise....
stop doing them then =p
or have your thyroid checked (too serious for this forum I expect but if you've not already...)
Copperfox
08-15-2008, 10:20 AM
Lila, I can't remember if I've seen photos of you or not, but I know I have remarked somewhere that the two wives God lent me temporarily were NOT skinny, and I liked their bodies just fine.
Lord of Light
08-15-2008, 11:11 AM
Oh, if anyone is wondering why they haven't seen a photo of me: I'm usually the one taking the photo.:D
inkspot
08-15-2008, 11:23 AM
If you're bothered about being overweight or underweight, I would definitely recommend Stacy and Clinton's book -- the link is a couple pages back. They just show you simple tricks in the way you dress that will compliment your body type. At least, that is what they do on their TV show, and I read that the book has a separate section for each body type, so I imagine it is the same in the book. Really, clothes can make you look thinner or plumper, even younger or more mature.
Let me add my support of CF's attitude, that the ladies he loved were not twiggy. Different guys like different types, so don't have any worries on that score. I knew a swell guy in my single days who liked tiny women who looked like boys, and I knew a lot of guys in my single days who liked curvy ladies with a little meat on their bones. It really comes down to whether you like the person as a person ... but, it helps to break the ice and get to know the person if you are looking your best and feeling confident.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 11:24 AM
^^ Well said!!!
Kells
08-15-2008, 12:05 PM
Very smart, Kells. You know, by now of course, that you are a real beauty.
You know, in a way it is also natural for boys to want to look good for girls: in nature a lot of times, it's the male who gets all the pretty plumage and the big man or whatever, just for that purpose, to attract the girls.
LOL, I'm not so sure about that first bit, but you are absolutely lovely, Jax.
I was thinking about how male birds have the pretty feathers and all the other day. In nature, they are supposed to be the ones doing the work to attract a mate. A couple came into my cafe and it was one of those where the girl is dressed very nicely and the guy she is with hasn't seen a razor or comb in a week. As soon as I saw them, I knew how the transaction would go: I'd smile and greet them when they came to the counter, she would smile back and ask how I was and he might grunt. I would be broken off halfway through asking what I could get them by him asking what I make that's like a Frappuccino which he would order first, then she would order. He'd groan and take out his credit card when I told him the total and then either walk off first and by himself, leaving her at the counter, or tugging her along.
I've been working in Starbucks type coffee shops for about 3 years now and have witnessed a lot of dates. And I hate to judge people on appearances - I can grunge it as well as the next guy, and certainly don't want to date a pretty boy - but men who won't clean up for a date, generally are not trying at all and aren't chivalrous or appreciative of the girl they are taking out. I hate to think that a male duck works harder to attract a mate than many human males. :rolleyes:
A pic from vacation...
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u74/NarniaFan0527/PICT0004.jpg
Grace, I think the reason you tend to get more compliments from adults is that you are beautiful, but in such a gentle and classic way. Its not a trend that makes you pretty so its not about being hot - youll be lovely no matter what comes in style.
Lord of Light - sorry, I dont know if you prefer to go by your screen name or something else - have you seen a doctor or maybe a nutritionist? Im not sure how tall you are, but 30 lbs does sound like a lot. Id worry if you got sick or something.
LOL - I sound like my mom. I have a lightening quick metabolism, too, and am just getting over being really sick over the holidays, so she is always checking in with how much I ate and when. Im about 15 under right now and slowly gaining.
Several guys I am friends with, who were always very thin but always eating, said that their metabolisms started slowing down through their early 20s and it became much easier to put on muscle and fat. So maybe it is like another growth spurt or something.
bruiser
08-15-2008, 12:15 PM
I can grunge it as well as the next guy, and certainly don't want to date a pretty boy - but men who won't clean up for a date, generally are not trying at all and aren't chivalrous or appreciative of the girl they are taking out. Yes grunge. My teacher told me that I should of been growing up in the Grunge age, he said that I would of fit in beautifully.
Back to my point. What you said isn't always true in every case. I'd much rather a guy be himself, wearing what he feels comfortable in, when we go out rather than he try to impress me by being a 'pretty boy'. Now I don't want to go to a resturant and he be dressed in his PJ's but I don't want him to be wearing a Tux on every date either.
I guess that it all really comes down to what a girl wants from her dude. Wither she wants to change him into wearing things that he would rather not or keep him as is. I must say, guys that wear those white undershirts with a flannel shirt thrown over top look 'more attractive' to me than a guy wearing A&F or what ever it is that thoes 'pretty boys' wear.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 12:18 PM
Id be quite happy if he was just wearing a white shirt and i tight jumper, smart but causal at the same time, you know what i mean.
Kells
08-15-2008, 12:25 PM
Yes grunge. My teacher told me that I should of been growing up in the Grunge age, he said that I would of fit in beautifully.
Back to my point. What you said isn't always true in every case. I'd much rather a guy be himself, wearing what he feels comfortable in, when we go out rather than he try to impress me by being a 'pretty boy'. Now I don't want to go to a resturant and he be dressed in his PJ's but I don't want him to be wearing a Tux on every date either.
I guess that it all really comes down to what a girl wants from her dude. Wither she wants to change him into wearing things that he would rather not or keep him as is. I must say, guys that wear those white undershirts with a flannel shirt thrown over top look 'more attractive' to me than a guy wearing A&F or what ever it is that thoes 'pretty boys' wear.
I know it does not apply to every case, which is why I said generally. But a guy should think a girl he is taking out on a date is special enough to put his best foot forward for (and wash it first), even if they have been dating for months or married for years.
My dad does not get manicures or his eyebrows waxed, but he still always makes sure to shave, shower and wear a clean shirt for my mom after 27 years.
Dressing nicely (cleanly) does not make a pretty boy. Being vain does.
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 12:25 PM
Copper made a very valid statement: different guys have different taste...my best friend should be a MODEL. She's about 5'4" and maybe weighs 96 pounds...and has a very good figure.So, naturally she has a little train of guys following her, even though she's taken, so in a conversation with a guy I'm interested in...we somehow got on the subject of jessi and her figure (it was actually relevant to the conversation, lol) and he said "I've seen better, I'm talking to better" which just left me speechless since jess, is- well, Victoria secret material if she were only my height....so some guy will like you just as you are.
and if a guy dresses up for a date with me, I feel even more nervous than I was to begin with..but if he just dresses as he does any other time, I feel more comfortable with him.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 12:27 PM
I think a guy shouldnt dress up, dress up if you know what i mean but mabye buy on something new and clean that he knows he looks goood in, i would be happy with that.
Kells
08-15-2008, 12:28 PM
and if a guy dresses up for a date with me, I feel even more nervous than I was to begin with..but if he just dresses as he does any other time, I feel more comfortable with him.
I think I might not have been clear about what I meant. Dressing nicely for a girl does not mean wearing a suit. It simply means being clean. Things like wearing clean clothing, showering, and keeping facial hair in check.
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 12:30 PM
yea, but if he goes and like, gels his hair and wears his "good jeans" and a nice t-shirt, it makes the situation awkward if when previously I've been around him he was wearing his favorite band t-shirt and didn't take the time to do anything to his hair.
It makes the situation awkward....just like I don't like movie/dinner dates...either or. But thats just me. lol
bruiser
08-15-2008, 12:32 PM
I think I might not have been clear about what I meant. Dressing nicely for a girl does not mean wearing a suit. It simply means being clean. Things like wearing clean clothing, showering, and keeping facial hair in check.
Yup, I took it the wrong way. Dang, sorry. I agree though with what in being said. I mean I would feel better if a guy wore what he normally would instead of trying to impress me, though it can be flattering at first, but after a while it would seem a little weird seeing a guy dressed up walking in with a girl that is wearing blue jeans and a shirt.
Kells
08-15-2008, 12:32 PM
yea, but if he goes and like, gels his hair and wears his "good jeans" and a nice t-shirt, it makes the situation awkward if when previously I've been around him he was wearing his favorite band t-shirt and didn't take the time to do anything to his hair.
It makes the situation awkward....just like I don't like movie/dinner dates...either or. But thats just me. lol
Is it because you feel like he is trying to be someone he's not?
bruiser
08-15-2008, 12:33 PM
Is it because you feel like he is trying to be someone he's not?
Exactly.....
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 12:46 PM
no, it's just awkward...like when your both trying to look good and impress the other one, and then you don't know how their reacting, and yada yada....I just don't like it...I'm as I've said: self consciouses, so If we both just dress as we would any day I feel like he's more acceptive of just me...and its less awkward
Kells
08-15-2008, 12:48 PM
Well, girls have different tastes, just like guys do.
Whoever you pick, however he dresses, make sure he appreciates you, then. That's my problem with the guys I posted about above, so that's all I'll argue :D
bruiser
08-15-2008, 12:50 PM
no, it's just awkward...like when your both trying to look good and impress the other one, and then you don't know how their reacting, and yada yada....I just don't like it...I'm as I've said: self consciouses, so If we both just dress as we would any day I feel like he's more acceptive of just me...and its less awkward
True that. :]
Kells you won't have to worry about me dating some fool. If I ever do get into a bad relationship or I need advise on a guy thing I'll come to you first. ;]
Kells
08-15-2008, 12:53 PM
Kells you won't have to worry about me dating some fool. If I ever do get into a bad relationship or I need advise on a guy thing I'll come to you first. ;]
LOL, I doubt I'd be a good person to come to first. I've dated too many fools.
It makes me overprotective of my friends.
bruiser
08-15-2008, 12:57 PM
LOL, I doubt I'd be a good person to come to first. I've dated too many fools.
It makes me overprotective of my friends.
Which is why you are the better person to go to. :p
I've not technically 'dated' but one guy, and the only thing that he did that was foolish was dump me. Which I think wasn't foolish, but that's what my friend Sam and her mom told me. [sigh]
We're both still friends though, but he will be going into the military soon -ish. Planning on getting into it within the next year or so. Graduating early and everything. :/
HugsForReepicheep
08-15-2008, 01:11 PM
Is it because you feel like he is trying to be someone he's not?
Exactly.....
Hum, I'd have to disagree a bit there... Dressing differently (i.e. better) in certain occasions doesn't mean trying to be someone you're not, it means adapting and adjusting to the situation. In my grandama's youth and before people used to have something called 'Sunday clothes': they'd wear their best clothes to go to church at Sunday. As it was a special day, it desearved a special outfit. There's people who still maintain such habit, others don't, but the point is you're not somebody else because you're dressed differently, you're just in a different situation.
Each situation may require a different look, for example, you won't dress to a wedding the same thing you'd wear to the beach. And respecting such codes is, either we want it or not, directly related with how we see us and the environment we're in. Of course, each person sees it a bit differently, like, using Kells example, if a guy dresses up to a date, some girls would see it as a demonstration of appreciation for them and others as a sign of not feeling comfortable with the situation.
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 01:12 PM
lol, I'm a sucker for the wrong type of guy : egotistical, on drugs, athiests....you name it I can always see the "good" and tend to overlook the bad...which is why I don't really date: better be single than with the wrong person.
Kells
08-15-2008, 01:18 PM
Sam and her mom are right, but I am glad you two are able to be friends. Sounds like he did it to make it easier for both of you, though. Getting serious with him leaving would be hard on both of you, and it would be either breaking up or long distance. Both of which could hurt a lot.
*shrugs* I don't know y'all's situation or anything, but you seem too sharp to be friends with someone who is bad for you. :)
To be somewhat on topic, what about things like gauges? I remember the first time I saw them - I was sitting behind a girl in biology class and watching the teacher through her ear lobe, lol! I guess it isn't any stranger than pushing a thin piece of metal through ones ear with a shiny rock attached, but I was wondering if anyone here had them and why they decided to get them. I guess because I cannot get around the idea of how painful they must be to get.
EDIT:
lol, I'm a sucker for the wrong type of guy : egotistical, on drugs, athiests....you name it I can always see the "good" and tend to overlook the bad...which is why I don't really date: better be single than with the wrong person.
LOL, that is the way I've been doing it lately, too. I've been a lot happier.
inkspot
08-15-2008, 01:22 PM
I'm too old. What do you mean, gauges?
Let me add to the other discussion about clothes: when I go out, whether it's to the library or on a date or to the grocery store, with my husband, I want to look nice so he will feel proud to be with me. I think he deserves that! This is what maybe Kells was reacting to with the grunge-man and his date ... she could not really feel "proud" to be with an unkempt fellow who acted like it was killing him to pay for her coffee ...
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 01:23 PM
oooh.....theres a topic: I think they're really nasty when they're like huge....but they're ok as long as you can't see through the ears....I know a guy who got BOTH his ears pierced "because some girls are into that" and I told him that it looks stupid on guys to have them both pierced unless they gauge them (not that I like ANY piercings on a guy) and he like freaked when i said that! (but then again, I've alway thought emo/goth guys were cute :rolleyes: ) lol, he wears two "diamonds" like he's trying to be "gangsta" but its not him at all and it annoys me because thats not who he is and he keeps trying to be that.
I saw a guy at the beach that had his NOSE gauged...you could see the inside of his nose, it was SO disgusting
Kells
08-15-2008, 01:27 PM
Hopefully the image links work, Jax. These are kind of the range of sizes they can come in, but instead of a tiny hole to put the pin or whatever you call the metal piece of an earring, through, it is like the hole is the decoration and it is stretched by a piece of plastic or metal.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/222/453142249_939c9121d2.jpg?v=0
http://media.bonnint.net/slc/490/49096/4909621.jpg
His nose, CS?!? It must be horrible when he sneezes!
EDIT: This is what maybe Kells was reacting to with the grunge-man and his date ... she could not really feel "proud" to be with an unkempt fellow who acted like it was killing him to pay for her coffee ...
LOL, yes. It was a Beauty and the Beast situation, but I don't think there was a prince anywhere underneath.
And your husband is a very lucky man, Jax :D
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 01:29 PM
EWWWW
Thats is nasty
This kid at our school has them and he thinks everyone likes him and thinks hes fit when they really dont he just gets picked on for being wierd.
noses are a bit extreme.
aren't they stretched quite gradually? so it probably wouldn't hurt THAT much.
aargh really annoying things -guys with their arse hanging out of their trousers. (sorry if that is offensive - I don't think it is but I'm never too sure cos different words mean different things in different places.) I think it's quite an emo thing - goes with the skinny jeans.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 01:32 PM
uh yeah i know what you mean
Its like you walk past and you can see their underwere like hanging out under their shirt and your like like EWWW
MY teachers keep tellin this boy in out form to pull his trousers up cas their alnost falling off!!!
It also goes with Chavs too cas they were really baggy stuff that fally of naturally
Kells
08-15-2008, 01:33 PM
I've seen them grouped with tattoos a lot, but haven't considered them quite the same. The beautiful tattoos I have seen, always have some story and special meaning to the person who got it. But I don't know many people in the U.S. (I've never traveled outside the country, and I am willing to bet something like it has been tradition somewhere) who have gotten things like gauges for reasons like that. They feel like more of a rebellious trend.
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 01:34 PM
not emo....well, at least I've never associated it with that..thats more "gangsta" and I HATE that. I seriously want to go over and pull their pants up for them. Theres this little funny "form for dating my daughter" and one of the things on it says "if you are not wearing a belt when you arrive to pick up my daughter and your pants are falling down I will take a staple gun and secure them on your hips" or something like that!
Kells
08-15-2008, 01:36 PM
aren't they stretched quite gradually? so it probably wouldn't hurt THAT much.
aargh really annoying things -guys with their arse hanging out of their trousers. (sorry if that is offensive - I don't think it is but I'm never too sure cos different words mean different things in different places.) I think it's quite an emo thing - goes with the skinny jeans.
I think they are. I just cannot imagine it feeling okay, though. Braces and tweezing my eyebrows are the most painful things I will do to dress up.
I almost died laughing at one of those the other day. He had skinny jeans, hanging way too low, and a studded belt right under his backside. It was fake leather, so it looked like his was sitting on an old grade school swing set :rolleyes: I was so amused he was wearing a belt with his sagging pants. It was like wearing a raincoat while swimming.
Theres this little funny "form for dating my daughter" and one of the things on it says "if you are not wearing a belt when you arrive to pick up my daughter and your pants are falling down I will take a staple gun and secure them on your hips" or something like that!
My daddy always wanted to frame something like that and hang it in the front hall next to his antique rifle.
But he also always said that "if a guy comes to the front door and honks, he better be dropping off a package, 'cause he sure ain't picking something up!"
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 01:39 PM
lol, yea, well, It's almost taboo for guys to show SOME boxers...but I mean the guys who's pants come down literally UNDER their bums..and they waddle when they walk because of it (its SO funny to see them trying to run!)
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 01:41 PM
lol
OMG my dad is going to be soooo embarrassing when it comes to dating.
they waddle when they walk because of it (its SO funny to see them trying to run!)
rofl
you have just made my day. I'll never be able to look at them again without cracking up.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 01:48 PM
lol
same
I know about the runnig thing cas their got their hands clenched to their trousers all the way lol.
lol
nearly as bad as girls trying to stop the marilyn munroe effect.
and the chains on the trousers can't help either. Gravity must have its way.
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 02:03 PM
lol embarrassing dads and dating.....*sigh* my parents "want me to be happy" so much that, I feel terrible if I break up with a guy...my dad actually took the phone and dialed the guys number and would've asked him on a date with me FOR me, if I hadn't grabbed the phone :rolleyes:
Marilyn Munroe effect?
bruiser
08-15-2008, 02:05 PM
My dad said that he will be cleaning his guns when I bring a guy home for the first time and he'll have one loaded. He's also said that he's going to have a bullet and ask the guy his name so he can write his name on a bullet. Dad's :rolleyes:. Funny thing was that when I asked him if he'd like to meet my last boyfriend, he wouldn't go meet him. Then finally when I told him that Ken was talking about going into the Marines he wanted to meet him and he acted like he accually half-way liked Ken after that. A week later we broke up. 0.o Oh well.
marilyn munroe in chicago i think with her skirt billowing up from an air vent
that's what my mum calls it when it is windy adn your skirt trys to make a break for freedom
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 02:15 PM
ahh.....ya, gotta hate that....:whistle: I wear a lot of skirts...
inkspot
08-15-2008, 02:29 PM
Hopefully the image links work, Jax.
Crikey! I thought that was something African ladies did in ancient times!
And your husband is a very lucky man, Jax :D
Thanks. :) I feel lucky to have him, too.
I was so amused he was wearing a belt with his sagging pants. It was like wearing a raincoat while swimming.
LOL! What is the deal with wearing pants that low? Is that some kind of statement or style? I am way out of touch...
OK, now, back to the topic ... changing your appearance ... another reason that you might want to change your appearance and have a more flattering style is that it opens doors if you are planning a career of any traditional kind. That young man with the big gauges, for instance, might not get a positive reception if he wanted to work in an office or sell real estate ...
dress code is very important in white collar jobs.
and how you look in a job interview affects your employer's perception of you big style. As does your accent grr.
bruiser
08-15-2008, 02:40 PM
Dressing, either up or down, has a lot to do with a job. People with tattoos around here, if they want to work as a waiter and things like that have to cover their tattoos up.
As an agent one has to dress according to who they are trying to portray. Either a drug dealer or just another person on the street. I want to be an agent when I get older, but I don't think that I'm going to get into things like I said above. I more or less want to either work in a Crime Lab or be a Scene Investigator. Doing behind the scene things to catch the bad guys.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 02:45 PM
Id love to work as a Scean Investigator but on TV.
Id love to work on CSI or something like that, that would be like my dream job.
Kells
08-15-2008, 02:45 PM
LOL! What is the deal with wearing pants that low? Is that some kind of statement or style? I am way out of touch...
OK, now, back to the topic ... changing your appearance ... another reason that you might want to change your appearance and have a more flattering style is that it opens doors if you are planning a career of any traditional kind. That young man with the big gauges, for instance, might not get a positive reception if he wanted to work in an office or sell real estate ...
I have no idea what made it popular. But it was always amusing in junior high to see the same pair of boxers two days in a row. :rolleyes:
I can see what you mean about that, Jax. It seems like some people make permanent (or at least long lasting) decisions when they are young because they can't imagine getting older. It feels like so far away. I cannot imagine being my parents' age or even in my 30s.
There was a young man my uncle told me about several years ago. He came into his office wearing sunglasses and tried to go through the whole meeting with them on. Finally, my uncle got annoyed and told him to take them off. The young man was wearing contact lenses with flames on them and explained that he was wearing the glasses so my uncle would not see them. Even that young, I slapped myself on the forehead in frustration with someone doing something that silly. It almost seems like he was sabotaging himself, coming in wearing something he knew would keep him from being taken seriously.
EDIT: That would be a fascinating job, Amanda. Horrible some days, I'm sure, but I'd think it would be incredibly rewarding, too.
Do you mean as an actor, Charlotte?
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 02:51 PM
Yeah thats waht i mean
acting on some kinda crime show on TV would be like my dream!!!!
bruiser
08-15-2008, 02:59 PM
Id love to work on CSI or something like that, that would be like my dream job.
Though I can't tell you as much as I would like, my mother works along side with the people that do Crime Scene Investigations and the agents that re-create things in order to get the right person thrown in jail. If I say too much I could get my mom fired, so I'm leaving things as is.
Though things are very interesting up there. A job that I don't think will ever get boreing.
I have no idea what made it popular. Baggy pants [let me know if I need to remove this] originated in jail. It was a symbol to let others know that they flow a certain way and that they are available. Kids now just don't know that. It's hilarious to me accually that they say that they don't go that way but their clothing say they do.
Surely it would depend on what you were doing. WOuldn't most of it be paperwork?
lol about the baggy pants. I've never heard that over here though. Maybe it's just imported from the USA.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 03:02 PM
That sounds cool.
But ive always wanted to work behind the camera and CSI is like my fave ever series lol!!
um... hate to be pendantic...but wouldn't acting be in front of the camera?
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 03:08 PM
oh yeah, i ment that lol...
(Silly me :D)
Kells
08-15-2008, 03:10 PM
Baggy pants [let me know if I need to remove this] originated in jail. It was a symbol to let others know that they flow a certain way and that they are available. Kids now just don't know that. It's hilarious to me accually that they say that they don't go that way but their clothing say they do.
I'd never heard that. I'd just, uh, always thought of how vulnerable it was when I saw a guy walking around with his pants like that. How funny that it is generally worn by the ones who would be the most horrified and angry if you suggested they were like that...
bruiser
08-15-2008, 03:17 PM
I'd never heard that. I'd just, uh, always thought of how vulnerable it was when I saw a guy walking around with his pants like that. How funny that it is generally worn by the ones who would be the most horrified and angry if you suggested they were like that...
Yeah. That's where it came from though. [The things that I know because of having family that all works or worked for the jails or as Private investigators or what my mom does. sigh.]
Like I said hilarious. :rolleyes:
um... hate to be pendantic...but wouldn't acting be in front of the camera?ROFL.!
Surely it would depend on what you were doing. WOuldn't most of it be paperwork?I guess that it would also depend on your interests. My mom does all of the paper work, agents on the other hand just go and get information are record it. Other people accually type it up for them.
It's amazing how much they leave out on thoes CSI tv shows.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 03:18 PM
I know i told my mum and she said there alot more too it then the CSI put in lol.
Kells
08-15-2008, 03:26 PM
I guess that it would also depend on your interests. My mom does all of the paper work, agents on the other hand just go and get information are record it. Other people accually type it up for them.
It's amazing how much they leave out on thoes CSI tv shows.
It might not be prime time television, but it is important. I'd hate to see someone get off just cause paperwork was considered too boring to cross the t's and dot the i's.
bruiser
08-15-2008, 03:29 PM
It might not be prime time television, but it is important. I'd hate to see someone get off just cause paperwork was considered too boring to cross the t's and dot the i's.
True that. It kinda goes hand in hand. The agents need the case writers and vice versa.
Yeah, they do leave out a ton. You're mom's right.
Kells
08-15-2008, 03:36 PM
What is the silliest thing y'all have done with your appearance?
I remember when I learned that I couldn't change it to make anyone else happy. I was in junior high, and had just moved, and the IT outfit was dark indigo jeans, perfectly white tennis shoes, and a thin brightly colored hoodie that said "princess" or something on the front and I "had to have it" to fit in. I blew 4 weeks of babysitting money on that outfit. And then I was made fun of for not being able to tan when I wore the outfit to school. :rolleyes: It rained when I was walking home from school that day and my indigo jeans bled all over my white shoes. I was so heartbroken. LOL! I figured out, though, that I could wear whatever I wanted cause anyone who did or didn't like me wouldn't change their opinion based on what I wore.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 03:40 PM
"to tan"????
Whats that??
Um crazyest ever...
i dono i havent done much crazy stuff i just cba.
Kells
08-15-2008, 03:46 PM
"to tan"????
Whats that??
Um crazyest ever...
i dono i havent done much crazy stuff i just cba.
LOL, it is odd to see someone in Las Vegas who does not tan.
Good to hear you skip it if you don't do it naturally. All skin tones are beautiful and it is so unhealthy to try to force yourself to tan. My grandmother did all the time when she was younger, and is having to keep seeing doctors now to be checked for skin cancer.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 03:48 PM
OHh nasty
Im really pale but i dont trust myself with fake tan lol
Ill end up orange if i try i know i will, and it dont go well with freckles.
bruiser
08-15-2008, 03:50 PM
Something stupid that I once did was wear a skirt with an insane slit up the sides trying to prove one of my guy friends wrong. :/
I tan too easily. It's insane. :o
Kells
08-15-2008, 03:55 PM
Something stupid that I once did was wear a skirt with an insane slit up the sides trying to prove one of my guy friends wrong. :/
I tan too easily. It's insane. :o
LOL, did you do that trying to cover yourself up move? I do that every time I wear something that is more exposing than I had originally thought. Normally skirts. Every time I wear one, no matter how modest a length, the wind picks up!
So many girls I know would be so jealous of you. And I would be jealous if I could have your face along with the tanning ability.
(I already look enough like a bird of prey, lol.)
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-15-2008, 04:03 PM
Um i just get more and more freckily as i go out in the sun lol.
Celebrion Seregon
08-15-2008, 04:25 PM
I'm REALLY pale.....and I lay out on occasion in the summer...If I stay outside I tan to an almost normal color, but for like 3 years I wasn't in the sun much, at all. My foundation is the second lightest one they make :rolleyes:
and craziest outfit??? I've worn some TERRIBLE stuff as a kid...but when I actually started buying my own clothes??? umm....black and white horizontally striped knee socks with a black and white paisley skirt :rolleyes:
bruiser
08-15-2008, 11:44 PM
LOL, did you do that trying to cover yourself up move? I do that every time I wear something that is more exposing than I had originally thought. Normally skirts. Every time I wear one, no matter how modest a length, the wind picks up!
So many girls I know would be so jealous of you. And I would be jealous if I could have your face along with the tanning ability.
(I already look enough like a bird of prey, lol.)
It was one of those 'I bet that you'd never catch her in a...' type of thing and of course I was like, "oh yeah!?" I had a few complements from some guys, but it was the wrong guys. ugh. XP
I'd rather be pale -er -ish. Tanning easily gets old fast, espically if you have major tan lines like I do. I have a tan line around my wrist from where I wear a hairbow there. My knees are tan but below my knees it's white because of my softball uniform. Long socks are the enemy. haha.
You don't want my face... it's seriously fat. XD Like I don't take pictures smileing because of it. :p Plus my smile is crooked. :/
Kells
08-15-2008, 11:50 PM
I wish you didn't feel like that, Amanda. I have seen pics of you and I think you are beautiful.
bruiser
08-16-2008, 12:03 AM
I'm glad someone does. Why do I have to be so cynical?
Thanks Kells, it means a lot, though I may try to down play it, it really does.
i'm easily intimidated by other girls that I consider prettier than me. :rolleyes: Pathetic hunh?
Elentari
08-16-2008, 12:03 AM
Bruiser, dear, you're beautiful. I have never seen your face, but I know you are. Same with you, Kells dear. :D And you, iminlovewithedwardcullen (it's hard writing that without putting spaces between the words...).
I had really long hair when I was a freshman in HS. I got it cut midway through the year because I wanted it to look just like a girl who was in my English class (she had gorgeous hair). Sigh. My hair is a lot thicker than hers and I hate blow dryers, so needless to say--same cut, never looked a thing like hers. :(
I got highlights the next year which did NOT turn out the best. I look back on my middle school and early high school pictures and wince. I consider myself much more fashion-forward now! Though the 90s was a difficult time fashionwise. I can honestly say, my appearance did not begin to improve until AFTER the year 2000! ;) My favorite article of clothing that made me feel completely and totally grown up and cool, especially when walking down the hallway during yearbook class, were my almost knee-high black leather boots with the 1 1/2 inch heel. I still own a pair, though my first will always be my favorites.
Before I answer the original question, I will also throw out here that while I usually tan (I have a tanline around my wedding ring and on my feet where my flip flops go), it is never quite noticeable since I'm not incredibly pale to begin with. To give you an idea, I am Caucasian, but when my HS friends compared skin tone at the lunch table one day (no, I don't remember why...) my skin was actually more like my Chinese friend, a bit more olive-toned than porcelain (my sister has porcelain skin and she burns very easily, then tans deliciously).
Original Question: Why do we do this? Approval, which as Kells said we may or may not get for all our attempts; a misguided view of beauty (sorry, I prefer me to the girls I see on Vogue covers); and constantly comparing ourselves to others, both people we know and people we see in movies and TV (see above "misguided view of beauty"). The answer: Be yourself. You'll always be happier in your own skin. :D
bruiser
08-16-2008, 12:15 AM
Thanks. :]
In the summers I look more like a light skinned Mexican than a white girl. Or that's what I've been told. My dad gets mistaken for a mexcan all of the time. XD He works outside year long with his job and tans easily like I do too. haha.
My hair was long at the beginning of last year too! [Freshman last year. Sophmore this year.] I cut it in the spring because I wanted too [not to look like someone or anything but I just wanted to look at something different in the mirror]. Everyone says that I look better with my hair cut shorter, and [though I don't want to sound like a stuck up or anything] I agree. ^^ I wish that I had gotten more prominent bangs though. o.0 haha.
Mello
08-16-2008, 12:18 AM
I didn't realize people were still concerned with their appearance. What's the point? Just clothe your body and call it a day.
Kells
08-16-2008, 12:23 AM
That isn't pathetic, Amanda, but don't let girls intimidate you just because you feel like they are prettier. You are beautiful, smart, and caring, but it is so hard to be happy when you are comparing yourself with somebody else.
You are right to like your own face more than the Vogue covers, Elentari. That isn't what the model even looks like anyway. They alter hair colors, figures, teeth. They even take the creases out of clothing :rolleyes:
A while back, for a stage makeup course, we did a section on glamour makeup and went over all the ways our faces were not symmetrical and what needed to be covered and changed with makeup. Then we had photos taken of us straight on, and it was PhotoShopped to be perfectly symmetrical. I was very unnerved to see my face taken apart like that and altered. My nose might be crooked, and I am insecure about it, but it was bizarre to see it be my face but not my face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtGt_XzBEbI
Copperfox
08-16-2008, 12:29 AM
Yeah, what she said.
Meanwhile, aquiline features are alright as well. My sister Ricki, the swordfighting one, has what might be considered aquiline features, and she is a striking woman (and I don't mean in the sense of hitting people).
hello mcfly
08-16-2008, 12:56 AM
I was just thinking about this today. Why do you think people change their appearance?? From dying their hair, to getting their nails done. Even simple things like getting braces or a hair cut? (I've done all these things but that's not the point).
Unless it's benificial to our health do you think we really need to do these things? I know when I dye my hair I get a boost of confidence, because I look like someone else.
My thought is that we do these things to improve our appearance, but then I realized, what can we improve? Or why should we? Does it mean that we're insecure with ourselves? Or is it simply something else?
Your thoughts?
(Mods, if theres a thread like this then please merge or delete)
well, we definitely NEED to get haircuts, or else our hair just looks...lifeless. we need to take care of ourselves I guess.
we also need to feel comfortable with the way we look. hair might change your appearance, but if you change the color of your hair just so you can look different, look like a whole new person, that's when you need to take a step back and accept yourself for who you already are. and you are ALL beautiful, no matter what you say, you'll still be beautiful. but you have to see that yourself.
getting braces, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. if you want to smile confidently, that's perfectly fine.
it's all about your motive behind what you're doing.
there's nothing wrong with wanting to look good. it's when it becomes an obsession, when you try too hard that it gets serious.
it's mostly girls that worry about their appearance alot, and with all the media around us, all these so called "perfect" models, girls easily think they should look like that, they WANT to look like that. but honestly, all these ads are fake. like Kells said, they do tons of photoshopping before putting out the ads. don't let yourself be put down by media, or what people tell you what you should look like. beauty is in every single one of us, we were given beauty by God himself. to me, beauty isn't trying to look good, it doesn't come from makeup, or surgery, or botox, or any of that stuff. (not that makeup is bad, cause I wear makeup myself) but beauty comes from your heart and shows itself in your appearance.
Elentari
08-16-2008, 01:05 AM
My sister did stage makeup. We also had photos taken for a Mary Kay photo shoot (just by our consultant, not a big real shoot) and her photography friend made my sister's face symmetrical. The child's practically perfect anyway--thin, blonde, blue eyed, clear complected, never needed braces, practically symmetrical face ANYWAY, incredibly photogenic...bleh. :rolleyes:
(I love my sister, really I do!) :D
Anyway, my point was that it was VERY disturbing looking at the shot, even though it didn't look all that different from her normal face, and we were both disturbed that so much focus was put on changing the features we didn't like rather than accentuating the beautiful ones (cheekbones, eyes). We use makeup to accent, not to re-invent. :)
As for simply clothing our bodies and calling it a day, I'm all for it. When I buy clothes I look at 3 things:
1. How often would I wear it
2. Do I have multiple things to wear with it
3. Do I absolutely love the color and fit
That way I love everything in my closet, I know it all fits and looks good on me, and I can get dressed in the morning and call it a day. :D
Ephinie
08-16-2008, 01:35 AM
I have really long, thick hair. There have been at least a dozen times over the course of my life when I've cut it, and ever single time I have felt horrible afterward. Basically, the feeling each time was like the ONLY pretty thing about me was taken from me, leaving me with nothing. So... I learned my lesson to not cut my hair off!
The thing is, I was teased horribly when I was in school for having long hair. It didn't really make a whole lot of sense to me because there was a whole lot of other things wrong with me that warranted teasing - like my massive weight. And don't get me wrong, I was teased for those things as well. It was just like, geez people... you already tease me for every tiny thing you can find wrong with me, why do you have to tease me about the one single thing I have that is good? So in regard to my hair, it bothered me in the sense that it annoyed me; but it didn't upset me the way teasing for things that I agreed with them about did. However, there was one time when some boys actually set fire to my hair. Also, there were several occassions when people who were sitting behind me in class tried to cut my hair off without me noticing. Those incidents surely did bother me, because they made me feel like I had to be wary and on my guard all the time. My person was not safe.
Adults don't seem to tease the way kids do. However, I STILL have people who will make comments to me. Like people are always trying to suggest that I really need to donate my hair to locks of love. The way some people have said that to me basically implies that I have NO right to keep my own hair when someone else needs it, and how could I be so selfish as to keep it?
Then there are the people who will try to convince me that I need to get my hair cut so that it can be styled this way or that... I've even had people try to convince me that if I would just cut my hair, I'd feel better about myself. They don't understand the fact that I HAVE cut my hair several times before. I KNOW how it makes me feel, and it is NOT better about myself. It makes me feel shorn and ugly. So, in the quest for re-inventing myself, cutting the hair is not an option. It is a part of what makes me myself that I don't want changed.
Now, there are lots of OTHER things that I would desperately like to change about my appearance. But I can't help wondering why the ONE SINGLE thing I am happy about is the one thing that other people are always trying to get me to change?
Copperfox
08-16-2008, 01:47 AM
Sometimes, the only explanation is that a lot of people wake up in the morning and say to themselves, "How can I be idiotic, disruptive and obnoxious today?"
bruiser
08-16-2008, 01:49 AM
However, there was one time when some boys actually set fire to my hair. Also, there were several occassions when people who were sitting behind me in class tried to cut my hair off without me noticing. Those incidents surely did bother me, because they made me feel like I had to be wary and on my guard all the time. My person was not safe.
You want me to set them straight for you? Just you let me at them, I'll teach them not to mess with my buddies.
With my hair too long it makes my face look long, too short, too fat. I've finally got my hair to where it's in a happy medium. Now I just have to work on the frizz... XD
I need to get it trimmed up again, split ends love me. That way I can fix my bangs too. :rolleyes:
hello mcfly
08-16-2008, 01:58 AM
I have really long, thick hair. There have been at least a dozen times over the course of my life when I've cut it, and ever single time I have felt horrible afterward. Basically, the feeling each time was like the ONLY pretty thing about me was taken from me, leaving me with nothing. So... I learned my lesson to not cut my hair off!
The thing is, I was teased horribly when I was in school for having long hair. It didn't really make a whole lot of sense to me because there was a whole lot of other things wrong with me that warranted teasing - like my massive weight. And don't get me wrong, I was teased for those things as well. It was just like, geez people... you already tease me for every tiny thing you can find wrong with me, why do you have to tease me about the one single thing I have that is good? So in regard to my hair, it bothered me in the sense that it annoyed me; but it didn't upset me the way teasing for things that I agreed with them about did. However, there was one time when some boys actually set fire to my hair. Also, there were several occassions when people who were sitting behind me in class tried to cut my hair off without me noticing. Those incidents surely did bother me, because they made me feel like I had to be wary and on my guard all the time. My person was not safe.
Adults don't seem to tease the way kids do. However, I STILL have people who will make comments to me. Like people are always trying to suggest that I really need to donate my hair to locks of love. The way some people have said that to me basically implies that I have NO right to keep my own hair when someone else needs it, and how could I be so selfish as to keep it?
Then there are the people who will try to convince me that I need to get my hair cut so that it can be styled this way or that... I've even had people try to convince me that if I would just cut my hair, I'd feel better about myself. They don't understand the fact that I HAVE cut my hair several times before. I KNOW how it makes me feel, and it is NOT better about myself. It makes me feel shorn and ugly. So, in the quest for re-inventing myself, cutting the hair is not an option. It is a part of what makes me myself that I don't want changed.
Now, there are lots of OTHER things that I would desperately like to change about my appearance. But I can't help wondering why the ONE SINGLE thing I am happy about is the one thing that other people are always trying to get me to change?
wow, you've had things pretty rough.
but hey, you're not the only person out there who has quite a few things they want to change about their appearance.
humans tend to always want to upgrade themselves. new wardrobe, new makeup, new hair. and sometimes, it's good to have an upgrade once in awhile. but when you feel pressured to do it, and when people tell you over and over that you should get a haircut, you basically just want to do the opposite. cause as humans, we're also pretty rebellious, haha
your hair shouldn't be your way of shielding yourself, you should feel happy about it, and I'm sure you are. but you should take care of your hair, it's part of who you are, and you want it to reflect who you are.
and if you think your hair's fine the way it is, then don't change it. in God's eyes, he loves your hair just the way it is, he loves you and your appearance just the way it is. isn't that all that should matter? after all, everything that we can see, taste, feel on this earth eventually passes away. our looks, our hair, all that will be gone once we leave earth and move on. we shouldn't worry too much about our looks, we should be happy with the way we look and live happily that way. it's about the true beauty within us, and that reflects on the outside. but we should take time for ourselves, cause we all deserve it.
Ephinie
08-16-2008, 02:20 AM
Sometimes, the only explanation is that a lot of people wake up in the morning and say to themselves, "How can I be idiotic, disruptive and obnoxious today?"Ain't that the truth?
You want me to set them straight for you? Just you let me at them, I'll teach them not to mess with my buddies.
Thank you, dear, but that was about ten or eleven years ago. I am sure those same boys who were setting my hair on fire or trying to cut it off every time I turned around are now upstanding, righteous men of God with families of their own that include precious little girls with long, silky hair that they would never want to see burnt or cut. That is probably more than enough to make them think twice about that kind of behavior anymore.
And thank you, mcfly. Of course God loves all of us exactly how we are, but I think it is important to keep in mind that he expects to care for what He has given us as well.
Celebrion Seregon
08-16-2008, 09:15 AM
^ how can you be so nice? I think of the terrors of boys who teaed me as a child, and I can only imagine them as druggies and alcoholics who have no respect for women.
Lord of Light
08-16-2008, 10:37 AM
In all actuality, it more depends on their background on who/what they will become. Some will more than likely be men of God, while others aren't. Just sort of a simple, "I don't know what they've become" works in this kind of situation...cause you really don't.:D
bruiser
08-16-2008, 10:56 AM
^ how can you be so nice? I think of the terrors of boys who teaed me as a child, and I can only imagine them as druggies and alcoholics who have no respect for women.
She's always been really nice, but I'm sure that she's right too. Most boys do grow up sometime.
hello mcfly
08-16-2008, 12:15 PM
yeah, and it's also forgiving them for what they've done to you. looking back at the past all the time and having grudges against the people who hurt you isn't all that healthy. but Ephinie's taking it the right way.
although again, you never know who they've become. you might run into them one day and they might be the same person they've been 10 years ago. you're not going to yell and them and be completely rude with them, you're gonna say hi and ask them how their life is, and you're gonna be loving. that's the way it should always be, love your ennemies as yourself.
inkspot
08-18-2008, 02:34 PM
Women tend to link their sensuality and their hair in their minds; this is one reason a "bad hair day" is so disastrous to us: we don't feel gorgeous if our hair isn't gorgeous. It's also why bad hair cuts are so traumatizing to us. We have a very close relationship with our hair.
So, this is also a reason it's important to keep our locks healthy and looking good to the best extent we can. If I grow my hair long, it is so thin and flyaway, it does not look good, and I don't feel good about it -- plus it frames my round face in a dreadful way! Therefore ... a great stylish hair cut makes me look good and feel good. It makes sense then that I keep my hair styled.
It think it's the same with all kinds of appearance changes. If we think we look better a certain way, then why not go for it and feel good about it?
Celebrion Seregon
08-18-2008, 02:37 PM
I am very attached to my hair...and I got it cut and its SO SHORT I don't know what to do!! lol, If I'm ever complimented its one of two things: "your hair is so pretty" or "you smell good" and I've lost my hair *cries* oh well, it'll grow...just not fast enough
bruiser
08-18-2008, 02:47 PM
If my hair looks bad to me I just throw it up into a bun type thing and move on. Then again I've never really had a seriously bad hair cut. :rolleyes:
I cut my friend's hair once, it looked really cool until she cut a huge gap in it. She had to go to a lady to get it fixed. It was cut really short but it looked wonderful on her. :D Something good came out of something bad.
Celebrion Seregon
08-18-2008, 02:56 PM
lol, I've had some bad haircuts!!!!
ugh, this one I looked like prince charming off of shrek 2....and i was even blond! *shudders* terrible. but yea,It won't GO in a bun thing anymore.
bruiser
08-19-2008, 10:43 AM
Can it go up at all?
Celebrion Seregon
08-19-2008, 12:08 PM
partially....but it's pretty tough to go up, it looks ok if i wear headbands with it though...so I stocked up for school! lol
NotATameLion
08-19-2008, 09:35 PM
Inkspot is right, and I've been noticing more and more lately about how most girls have an almost weird obsession with their hair. Or at least I do. :p
If I'm having a good hair day (though they don't seem to happen near enough), I feel reasonably pretty. If I'm having a really bad hair day, I feel like hiding under a rock. :rolleyes:
*Mrs.Beaver Fan*
08-20-2008, 11:31 PM
I was just thinking about this today. Why do you think people change their appearance?? From dying their hair, to getting their nails done. Even simple things like getting braces or a hair cut? (I've done all these things but that's not the point).
Unless it's benificial to our health do you think we really need to do these things? I know when I dye my hair I get a boost of confidence, because I look like someone else.
My thought is that we do these things to improve our appearance, but then I realized, what can we improve? Or why should we? Does it mean that we're insecure with ourselves? Or is it simply something else?
Your thoughts?
(Mods, if theres a thread like this then please merge or delete)
Well everyone is insecure in one way or another about our looks. We don't really need those things its sort of like video games (I know bad example right) or internet or other things in that matter. We don't really need those things it's just kind of nice to do or have if you have the time/money.
I do think that sometimes I care about my looks to much, way more than I should. I am not the loveliest person in the world (crooked ears, giant nose, big cheeks, you get the picture) I haven't really had my hair died or anything yet but I do wish at times I could, or that I could look like some people I know around me. I know it is wrong but I think for most people it is inevitable (SP)
Celebrion Seregon
08-21-2008, 12:19 AM
I have an additional curse... I analyze peoples faces, like i notice EVERYTHING, mine included, i can tell you exactly everything thats wrong with my entire body, especially my face...it's SO annoying, but I've learned to get over it
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-21-2008, 12:20 AM
Same!!!
I can pick out all my flaws that i know other people whould never see but i just do!!!
PrinceOfTheWest
08-21-2008, 05:24 AM
I think that's a symptom of our culture. When you've got the media always holding up effectively impossible ideals of human form and feature, and photos of even professional models being digitally altered to "perfect" them, and magazines featuring articles on how to deal with "figure flaws", what you're setting up is an environment for people to be self-critical to a neurotic degree. Think about it: people come in all sorts of sizes and shapes, and look all kinds of ways. There's no "standard human", yet our culture uncritically accepts ideas such as figure "flaws" - as if we were machines being run off an assembly line, to be compared against an ideal model of production.
I'd recommend both of you work on breaking this tendency. It seems to me not to be a good sign. Try to look at people and say, "that's just how that person looks", rather than trying to analyze what's "wrong" with them. Ultimately you may be able to do it yourself.
inkspot
08-21-2008, 10:03 AM
I saw Sarah Jessica Parker on a talk show one day saying how she and her little boy were out, and they saw a big lady in very tight clothes, and the little boy (being Sarah Jessica's, obviously) had never seen a body type like that, and he was delighted. It made me laugh. Sarah said she explained to him that people come in all shapes and sizes, and he seemed happy to know that. So of course, to some extent, it is cultural biases that shape our perception of what's beautiful in appearance.
At the same time, because we live in our culture, it's going to make our life easier if we aren't too flagrantly flaunting the norms.
Adanedhel
08-21-2008, 11:25 AM
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!?????? Inora is beautiful!!! Kaylee looks pudgy and juvenile.
Sometimes it's entirely to please themselves. Take me: even if it were of absolutely no importance to anyone else on Earth, and even if I knew it would make no practical difference to my circumstances for all the rest of my life, I personally _still_ would like to be at least two inches taller.
More often, I think it's for the effect on others. But the effort can be self-defeating. Did you ever watch the sci-fi series "Firefly"? In that show, I always felt that the hooker character Inora was overrated, looks-wise; I actually thought that the girl engineer, KayLee, was BETTER-looking than Inora. And then I got my VERY FIRST CHANCE EVER to see the actress who played Inora doing an interview, MINUS the tons of slut-girl makeup. With no more than ordinary cosmetics, the actress was genuinely FAR MORE attractive than she had been in character as the "registered companion."
There is something to tell in this connection which reflects credit upon my dear departed Janalee. She always loved being stylish; on our wedding day, she had her nails done in French white-tipped fashion. But for much of our married life, she WENT WITHOUT nail jobs, which to her truly WAS a sacrifice emotionally, in order to help me economize. I like to think that now, Up There, Jan can make her nails look any way she pleases, just by willing it to be so.
queenaravis707
08-21-2008, 01:06 PM
I'm new to this conversation but I have a couple of ideas why girls pay so much attention to their looks.
I personally, have a terrible thing about myself- I want attention. I was born getting a lot of attention being the first granddaughter born to the family, first born of my dad, so lots of people paid attention to me. It's stuck now. And I want people to notice me and tell me I'm beautiful. So sometimes I get stuck trying to change myself to get that approval rating. And me, being the ever-so hopeless romantic, thinks that I can get a guy to like me by dress I where. And I think that has affected many girls nowadays that they fail to see true beauty comes from the inside. It's hard even getting myself to think that way.
inkspot
08-21-2008, 01:37 PM
Yah, women can certainly engender attention by the way they dress, but this is no guarantee of engendering regard.
For any girls who have appearance issues, I would recommend the book Captivating by John Eldredge and his wife. Very biblical and insightful about the way God sees you, and how to begin seeing yourself that way. It does have a lot of big words, and it is intended for an adult audience, but if you can handle that, it's quite helpful.
Another thing to consider in appearance changes is stewardship of your body. Like all the good things in your life, your body is a gift from God -- it is His really, and He is just allowing you to use it. Think about when you borrow someone's car; you take good care of it and make sure it clean and has a full tank of gas when you bring it back. So if you consider that you have "borrowed" your physical body from God, you realize you want to take good care of it, feed it right, dress it in an honorable way, and physically be fit.
Copperfox
08-21-2008, 04:21 PM
QA-707, if more MALES were looking for the things that matter, and if the girls knew that the guys were doing so, it would be SO much easier on everyone. For my whole Christian life, I have tried to encourage young men to follow the Christian model of chaste manhood--which, contrary to some people's shallow quick-fix notions, is NOT all about a scowling chant of "Cover up the girls! Cover up the girls!" It's about regarding BOTH outwardly attractive AND outwardly UNattractive young women as deserving of courtesy and kindness.
Now, QA-707, let me tell you (shameless plug) that it is not too late for you to go read a story in rhyme about a man who DOES treat women the right way, and about a woman who definitely needs good treatment: my own "Tale of Sophia Renee" in the Writing Club.
Lord of Light
08-22-2008, 12:06 AM
Very interesting points Copper and Ink.
I would like to add something that is directed more toward guys when talking to girls/women. I myself am a guy, so I think its okay to address this issue, although one of the words I have to use may not be okay, but ah well, if not, admin or someone can do something I guess, contact me whatever, but as my biology and chemistry teacher said, its part of the body.
Anyways, straight to the point. Many times, I've noticed full grown adult MARRIED MEN who when talking to a woman who they've recently met or anything, they tend to do one thing; their eyes tend to drift toward the breasts. GUYS PLEASE DON'T DO THAT! When you do that, you can many times, insult the woman/girl you are talking to! That is why I strive to constantly lock my eyes on the woman's/girl's eyes I'm talking to. Sometimes though, I can tell they find it a little freaky, because they almost always have to look down themselves.:D(please note: not all women will do the same) Quite frankly, guys are responsible for keeping themselves pure, just as women are for themselves.
crazycigirl
08-22-2008, 02:51 AM
Anyways, straight to the point. Many times, I've noticed full grown adult MARRIED MEN who when talking to a woman who they've recently met or anything, they tend to do one thing; their eyes tend to drift toward the breasts. GUYS PLEASE DON'T DO THAT! When you do that, you can many times, insult the woman/girl you are talking to! That is why I strive to constantly lock my eyes on the woman's/girl's eyes I'm talking to. Sometimes though, I can tell they find it a little freaky, because they almost always have to look down themselves.:D(please note: not all women will do the same) Quite frankly, guys are responsible for keeping themselves pure, just as women are for themselves.
THANK YOU!!!!!!
My hair goes a little past my waist. If my hair is good, my day is good. If it's not, I really hope we don't go anywhere! I think a lot of it (appearance change) is for self confidence. My little sister is positive that her hair is ugly because of the red. (It's strawberry-blonde.) So I told her that if you rinse your hair camomile tea it will lighten in. (It will, but you would need to do it like three times a week for two weeks for any major results.) So she has been happy for almost two months because her hair is(apparently) more blonde now. Or sometimes with me, if I'm feeling ugly, I'll put on a little light colored eyeshadow that you can't even see. But it makes me feel better. It's all very illogical but it works and you feel better.
Copperfox
08-22-2008, 06:14 AM
Just a bit of balance against cliches:
I understand the "piece-of-meat" attitude which can and so often is produced by leering looks at the anatomy....I think that by now I've established my credentials in treating women as persons of innate value....and as a matter of fact, I also try to keep my eyes on a woman's eyes when talking with her face to face....but I deny, defy, rebut and refute the paranoid, prudish notion that ALL noticing of the COMPLETE shape of a woman AUTOMATICALLY equals depraved, wicked lust.
This is one of the places where Islamic culture goes wrong: by assuming that women have so much black magic about them, that a man CAN'T HELP falling into wild spasms of mindless lust if he sees ANYTHING worth mentioning. A token call is implied there for male responsibility, but it's nonetheless the women, always the women, who get beaten into a bloody mess in some countries for even letting their fingers--their FINGERS!!--be visible.
So, everybody, READ MY LIPS: believe it or not, I can see a fancy car and NOT be possessed by an uncontrollable urge to steal it and sell it to a chop-shop. Believe it or not, I can smell delicious food in a restaurant, and NOT be overwhelmed by a desire to grab strangers' plates and gobble their dinners. And believe it or not, I can see a woman who is not muffled in a burka--a woman who is not a bodiless head floating along five feet above the ground--and NOT be transformed into a sex-crazed monster.
I have been forced to repeat many times--and it has been 100 percent true EVERY time I've said it--that cultures all over the world, all down the road of history, HAVE "covered up the girls," HAVE enforced severe dress codes....and IT HAS NOT HELPED IN ANY WAY AT ALL, NOT EVEN THE TINIEST LITTLE BIT FOR ONE INSTANT ANYPLACE EVER, unless accompanied by genuine MORAL standards planted in men's hearts. This is FACT, not opinion. Some will now stare at me blankly for a moment--then stick their fingers in their ears, clamp their eyes shut, and go back to chanting, "Cover up the girls! Cover up the girls! Cover up the girls!" But maybe, just maybe, my words will be noticed by some young woman who has been made to feel FALSELY guilty as "some kind of bimbo" because she (GASP!!!!!!!!) has a hem ABOVE the knee; and I can tell that young woman: "No, I don't assume you're immoral."
bruiser
08-22-2008, 08:15 AM
Preach it Papa Joe. :]
Seriously though you are 100% right.
Copperfox's post above made me think about uniforms. My old middle school and my brother's old school made people wear uniforms. This was to [supposedly] stop people picking on one another and for it to [somehow] make gang activity go down. Well [to make a long story short] it never worked. Bullying stayed the same [if it didn't get worse] and gang activity increased. [They liked the fact that {the man} was trying to change tham and what not.] It was stupid for them to make us wear uniforms. Most of the students couldn't afford them [you couldn't wear coats!], everyone basically resented them.
Uniformity [I guess what I am trying to say] isn't always the answer to every issue. Sometimes it can make things worse instead of better.
Copperfox
08-22-2008, 08:50 AM
Hurray for Amanda! By the way, honey, if we ever do meet in person, it's perfectly all right with me if you choose to wear a Victorian dress, covered up from jawline to toes. My point is not to urge girls TO dress revealingly, but to assert that quantity of skin is an absolutely MICROSCOPIC issue compared to the REAL issue of respecting other people as persons with individual value and rights.
bruiser
08-22-2008, 09:37 AM
:D I do like thoes Victorian dresses, but I don't think that I would wear one myself. lol.
I do prefer blue jeans and a t-shirt. haha.
inkspot
08-22-2008, 10:57 AM
I am so old-fashioned, I totally favor the school uniform and I also don't believe in co-ed education. I think children can devote more of their time to their studies when they are not distracted by worries about what they and everyone else are wearing or what the boys/girls are doing/thinking. I think schools in the USA would do a much better job if everyone had a uniform and boys went to one school and girls to another.
I don't know if you could go into a school with a lot of gang activity and disciplinary problems and revitalize it by making everyone wear a uniform -- that would be sort of "magical" thinking. But I do believe uniforms and separate schools for boys and girls, with a good academic program and parental cooperation, would make a big difference.
bruiser
08-22-2008, 11:01 AM
I totally understand your thinking Inky, and if I had grown up in that situation that you say I would probably support it too, but being as I am with more guy friends and more tom-boy -ish than normal girls, I don't like the fact of splitting the genders up. I would be out of my comfortable box then. :o
Plus to me [totally my opinion. Please don't yell.] seperating the genders is just like seperating the races.
Celebrion Seregon
08-22-2008, 11:53 AM
^I can completely understand that.
Ephinie
08-22-2008, 12:35 PM
For the short amount of time that I went to a private school, I would have dearly loved to have had a uniform. Our dress code was so strict that it was basically necessary to go out and buy a whole new wardrobe specifically FOR school. For me, that was not possible. Hence, I had to wear the same like three skirts with four or five shirts every week; and people definitely noticed. If we had uniforms back then, I wouldn't have had to deal with that at all. Of course, part of the problem was that we went to school with a bunch of rich kids who went all out on buying school clothes. Many of them, by the time they wore something over again, they'd probably almost forgotten they'd have it. That is what uniforms mean to me - you can have like three to four sets of clothes that are re-used every day. As long as you do laundry regularly, no one will ever know the difference.
As for gender-separated classrooms, you've lost me on that one, Inky. I grew up with three brothers, so the idea of being surrounded by ONLY girls is very strange to me. Plus, I enjoyed having boys in my class when I was in school, even if some of them were mean at times. The difference between girl bullying and guy bullying is like night and day. School-age girls can be vicious beyond all imagination if they have half a mind to me. With guys, I think a lot of the things they harp on you about is less personal. They're easier to deal with. Also, when I was in school, my best friend was a guy. If he hadn't have been there, I would have had a much harder time.
bruiser
08-22-2008, 01:03 PM
When I say uniforms I mean a polo shirt of the colors navy, light blue, yellow, or white you choose. Along with black, navy, or kacki skirts shorts [at the knees] or pants. One could tell the difference between who had money and who didn't. I wasn't able to go out and buy a lot of different polos or pants so I basically did the same thing that you did. I was picked on for other reasons... [shudders] my eigth grade year was a living Hell. :(
inkspot
08-22-2008, 01:28 PM
Oh, OK, well that wasn't a uniform. What I mean is a uniform, where everyone is wearing the same thing. one of the strengths of the uniform is that no one can buy a "better" one than anyone else. A dress code is way different from a uniform.
On the gender thing ... it's still my contention girls and boys at a certain age are too distracted by each other and benefit from being schooled separately. Also I think the sexes being as different as they are, keeping girls with girls and boys with boys allows for the development of gender identity, too. Just my thought.
(I was a tomboy growing up and had many guy friends, but there was no need for these relationships to develop during school hours, I think they would have thrived whenever. Does that make sense?)
Celebrion Seregon
08-22-2008, 01:58 PM
^I was in a private school with uniforms...and you could still tell. There will ALWAYS be something people use to show their elevated status....you could tell the girls who bought their uniforms second hand, and could tell how many of the navy, or plaid skirts they had...you could tell from when they ate school food or packed, everything down to their book bags,pens, jewelry,shoes and socks....the stereotypes were there, although you couldn't UNDERSTAND why, you KNEW...it wasn't until I went to public school I realized favoritism and stereotypes...but it had always been present.It actually made it easier to accept what I'd been subjected to in private school , one i was faced with it in public.
Copperfox
08-22-2008, 02:08 PM
Separate classes for boys and girls are a completely separate issue from whether girls are required to dress like 80-year-old grannies to avoid being called immoral. In the matter of the separated classrooms, all I know is that I did read an article saying that boys, at least, rocketed upwards in achievement when taught with no girls present. The article writer did not couch it in terms of one sex distracting the other, but said that boys needed a different teaching method from girls, and that mixed classes had almost invariably been getting girl-oriented teaching methods.
bruiser
08-22-2008, 02:12 PM
(I was a tomboy growing up and had many guy friends, but there was no need for these relationships to develop during school hours, I think they would have thrived whenever. Does that make sense?)
With my parents... well my dad... I enjoy going to school because that is the _only_ time that I get to 'hang out' with my guy friends. I've only been with one guy to a hockey game and that was because I was able to convince my dad to let me go. [Straight As and my team had just won our first first place in a local tournment.] So I would be upset if I was to be seperated from my guy friends.
I mean I do understand what you are saying, but I'm just throwing my thoughts out there. Because I am in a different situation.
Lord of Light
08-22-2008, 02:47 PM
You made me remember something Amanda. And that is that everyone is almost always in a different situation than other people. Which also goes with the idea I realized not too long ago where, "There is no normal, as everyone is wierd in someone else's eyes"
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-22-2008, 02:48 PM
When you guys all say that having an uniform would mean thre was less pressure well its not always true.
Our school has a uniform, its a light blue shirt or bouse and navy blue trousers or knee length shirt and a school jumper in navy blue.
But people still find out a way to mean the cool kids look different from the others.
So the cool kids were tones or make-up they were very short skirts they were black cardigans that are all the fashion now.
So even if you have a uniform kids will still find a way to meen that if you dont have a certain thing then you dont fit in...
Also school bags are a big issue to weather your cool or not, if you dont have the right bag then you can be considered a nerd.
So overall uniform dosnt always solve problems at school because people always find a way around it...
bruiser
08-22-2008, 02:49 PM
True that. I'm one of the most interesting, unique, weird peoples that you'll ever meet. :]
I like to think that people that are weird are normal. It's the normal people that are weird. If you catch my drift. :D
Celebrion Seregon
08-22-2008, 02:51 PM
^ lol, precisely what I said above..it's human nature, and it's disgusting.
bruiser
08-22-2008, 02:58 PM
Also school bags are a big issue to weather your cool or not, if you dont have the right bag then you can be considered a nerd.
Ohh. School bags. Don't get me started. I love, love, love, my book sack. One strap that you just throw over your shoulder, grey and black uneven checkerboard[ed] with yellow paint thrown across it. Too small to fit everything in. It's love. I need to get a new one though. :/ Dang. But I won't be able to get it until Christmas.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-22-2008, 03:14 PM
I know i need a new bag aswell, but my mum dosnt understand that i cant walk in with this huge thing cas people just dont!!!
She wont buy me a new bag unless its a reaonable size so i have to buy it myself :mad:
I used to carry around a big purple backpack, but after I stopped bringing all my books to school, I started using this really neat messenger bag I got at Border's. It kind of has a graph paper pattern on it, with pictures of shoes... and a big red strap... I lurve it. :D
bruiser
08-22-2008, 03:21 PM
I don't like most of the L.L. Bean booksacks, but it is that kind that I plan on getting because they will be big enough for me to fit all of my school books in. :/
I have to buy a book for school this year because I'm taking a college level class. I hope that it doesn't cost a lot. Sorry, I just thought about it.
Copperfox
08-22-2008, 03:25 PM
Admittedly harder to achieve than clothing conformity, but of more value if it CAN be achieved, would be holding badly-behaved students accountable for their disruptive and harmful actions. I guarantee you, any 13-year-old who is not severely retarded--excuse me, I should say "differently abled" or some such evasion--already knows, KNOWS, that it is MORALLY WRONG to bully other kids. They know, and they ARE NOT excusable by ignorance because they're not THAT ignorant.
We've been lured very far down the slippery slope of anarchy by "educators" who claim there are no moral absolutes (EXCEPT, somehow, the absolute that we need to listen to these particular educators). It's a hard climb back up, but we have nothing to lose by trying, since otherwise things can ONLY get worse. Michelle Malkin has posted an excellent article about this problem on Townhall.com.
aah books are so much more expensive.
most paperbacks used to be Ģ4.99, now they're about 8 quid.
at my school the 'cool' people used to take an iddy biddy bag, (just a handbag really) with their phone and purse and biro and mascara in to class nad carry round their folders adn textbooks separately, and the geeky people had backpacks (or carrier bags =) )
The 'cool' people also tended to be the most affluent as well.
Maybe their confidence to be cool came with their wealth? or being able to afford thngs that made them be fashionable etc.
bruiser
08-22-2008, 03:57 PM
Maybe their confidence to be cool came with their wealth? or being able to afford thngs that made them be fashionable etc.
That would be my guess.
I've been tagged as a nerd since I was born. Though I used to be a semi-popular nerd until the eigth grade. But everything fell apart that year. :rolleyes:
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-22-2008, 03:58 PM
Yeah i think that sometimes, the richer you are then you can buy cooler stuff, though my friend is quite welthy but she dont really have nice school stuff, she has other nice stuff but not for school.
Uh i know what you mean Amanda!!
As soon as you make one slip up you are a nerd for life and you can never shake that off!!
bruiser
08-22-2008, 04:01 PM
I'm fine with being a nerd though. I mean it's really me, I don't have to fake anything to get people's attention, I'm not in drama, and I have _true_ friends. It's nice this way.
iminlovewithedwardcullen
08-22-2008, 04:21 PM
Cant see last post sorry
Copperfox
08-30-2008, 02:10 PM
The Bible seldom bothers to say whether persons being discussed were physically attractive or not. For instance, the heroine of the Book of Ruth, right now up for discussion on the "Bible Reading" thread, _might_ have been physically beautiful, or she might have looked like a warthog; Scripture simply does not tell us.
One thing Scripture _does_ tell us, however, is that Boaz (before the thought of his marrying Ruth himself had ever even come up) had cause to be concerned to protect her from possible sexual assault...EVEN THOUGH women in those days were always VERY modestly clothed. Which proves _again_ that the way a woman is dressed IS NOT the reason for sexual assaults; the total and _only_ reason is found in the wicked hearts of the assailants!
it is depressing though how often that argument "she was asking for it" is bandied about in defence of the assailant.
And how people judge the woman to be at fault for ahving dressed provocatively - when she looks no different from any of the other women who go out on a saturday night and go home unscathed.
Copperfox
08-30-2008, 06:12 PM
That phony excuse for sexual assaults makes no more sense than if an arsonist set fire to my house, got caught, and said that it was all MY fault for having a combustible house.
I know but it is sickening how often it still happens.
also shocking, it has been ruled that 'drunken consent is still consent'.
narniantreefaery
08-31-2008, 09:27 AM
I guess sometimes it's trying to change your image to fit in, because you're insecure etc
I'd like to think that in some cases its a creative output. Eg my sister has green hair because she is crazy and wacky and has to put her fizz somewhere.
Wrong.Itīs not to fit in, (at least for me it isnīt.That might be it for some, but thatīs none of my business)itīs just choice.I for, never wear make up.I like having an necklace and Iīve got earrings.I donīt really believe anyone should do anything just to fit in.If you love me, itīs for who I am, not for what I wear or do.
.I donīt really believe anyone should do anything just to fit in.If you love me, itīs for who I am, not for what I wear or do.
lots of people seem to do just that though.
Copperfox
09-02-2008, 02:34 AM
The population of the world is big enough that you could easily have 20 million girls dressing and grooming themselves totally for purposes of impressing others, AND simultaneously another 20 million girls dressing and grooming themselves the way THEY happen to like, regardless.
During the year I was a student at Washington University in St. Louis, I simply wore what I felt like wearing, what pleased myself. I was in the local chapter of Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship, and when the girls in the chapter held their own vote for which guy was best-dressed in the fellowship, I won! Not that this purely symbolic female approval translated into my having any better success in getting a date.
bruiser
09-02-2008, 03:03 PM
That's pretty neat Papa Joe. :]
Wrong. Itīs not to fit in, (at least for me it isnīt. That might be it for some, but thatīs none of my business)itīs just choice. I for one, never wear make up. I like having an necklace and Iīve got earrings. I donīt really believe anyone should do anything just to fit in. If you love me, itīs for who I am, not for what I wear or do.
The issue with that [according to my thoughts, so you can't say that I am wrong,] is that psychology you do care and you do change wither it be to please yourself or to fit in with others. You wear things that fit your lifestyle and you mood. You wouldn't think of seeing a farmer out in the field working wearing a tux, now would you? Nor a person wearing a tanktop in the tundra. It's just not fitting to you or your surroundings.
Just to remind you, this is coming from a teenage female that doesn't wear make-up, fancy jewlery [I make the accessories that I wear.], or heels. XD
I just like showing all of the sides of the opinion.
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