Bible proof?

[Jay7]

I was reading this: http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Desk/proof_bible_true.htm
and this: http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Prophecy/Signs_of_the_times.htm

It has about 350 prophicies the bible said was going to happen and it has, whats everyones opinions on this? im looking for more a catholics reply, not an atheists. :) ;)

[Saruman]

Well, I am certainly no Catholic, but, as one who is born again and saved by the mercy and grace of my Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, I can say, simply put, of course they've come to pass! There are more than just 350 prophecies, I should think, and all of the prophecies concerning the first coming of Jesus Christ have been fulfilled exactly as spoken.

After all, if it is God's Word, then I think we have no need to fear the fulfillment of prophecy. As God Himself often says, "I have said it, and I will do it." He is God, and that says it all. He is so good!

[Jay7]

Yep :D

it's amazing how every one so far has came true :D with good detail too.

Especially the one written 1000 years before Jesus came to earth, they even have the original copy and it was dated to be written before jesus came so theres evidence, and what was written was so precise and it ended up happening!

[Gibby]

I just purchased a book called The Case for Christ the other day. It looks like a good read and has evidence backing up the biblical accounts of the life, ministry, death and ressurection of Christ. Anyone else read it?

[Jay7]

Sounds interesting :D I haven't seen it before.

[Astral]

Skimmed, mostly. You're not hearing from a catholic or an atheist here. I just read until right about where it said "the Bible is flawless." I have three things to say to that.

"...God is love." - John's First Letter, 4:8
"...Love is kind, it is not jealous." - 1 Corinthians 13:4
"...For I am a jealous God." - Exodus 20:5

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Bible is bad. I'm saying that to interpret every verse literally would result in a heckuva lot of logical fallacies.

[Arei]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Bible is bad. I'm saying that to interpret every verse literally would result in a heckuva lot of logical fallacies.

Oh I gotta find the story I read a few months ago... It about a Orthodox Jew I beleive, who followed the bible down to the bone and came up with this outrageous questions it sent me out of my chair laughing.

Ah here it is!

Why Can't I Own a Canadian?
October 2002

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim


*massive snickering* Now THAT is a literal interpretation.






Also I read the 2nd page that you had posted Jay7 and found a few errors... It completely contradicts itself, quite funny.

[unleavened]

Skimmed, mostly. You're not hearing from a catholic or an atheist here. I just read until right about where it said "the Bible is flawless." I have three things to say to that.

"...God is love." - John's First Letter, 4:8
"...Love is kind, it is not jealous." - 1 Corinthians 13:4
"...For I am a jealous God." - Exodus 20:5

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Bible is bad. I'm saying that to interpret every verse literally would result in a heckuva lot of logical fallacies.
I see where you are going, but let me quote some more of Ex 20:5 to you. "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the lord your God, am a jealous God..." What He says he's jelous of is a bunch of statues, non-existant gods. He has no obligation to love statues and imaginary gods. Only man is silly enough to do that! So if you look at the text literally, as you say, there is no contradiction.

[Arei]

Its hard to get people to understand that God is a jealous and selfish God. He wants everyone to worship him and only him and follow his word without question, but he will reward you in the end if you do it (and you have to be honest about it, not do it JUST so you can get into heaven >.> doesnt work that way) Naturally human beings will go "=P How rude. Theres no way I'd worship a God like that." But thats how God is, and if you become a christian and follow the teachings of the bible, you'll get the ultimate award. The sacrifices you have to make may suck now, but they will be all worth it in the future; its the salvation of your soul.

[Srob]

I have read "the Case for Christ"


AWESOME BOOK. I say everyone who has doubts should get it.

What is awesome is that Christ fulfilled all 350 prophecies that were spoken before he was born. Christ was GREAT before his birth, while Muhammed or Budda was made "great" after their birth and actually their death.

There are over 1400 prophecies about Christ's return(rapture of the church). Now lets see, he fulfilled 350 before his birth(and lemme tell u, its hard to tell ur mom where u want to be born, especially if they don't know morse code...I tried telling my mom I wanted to be born in London, it didn't work..j/k...lol) So I cannot wait til' he comes back.

I believe that the Bible is the unfallible Word of God that does not contradict itself. I can pick and choose anything out of any book and say it contradicts only becase I don't take the full context of it. Besides the word says that " a carnal(worldly-ungodly) mind cannot perceive the spiritual things."

[Gibby]

I have read "the Case for Christ"


AWESOME BOOK. I say everyone who has doubts should get it.

What is awesome is that Christ fulfilled all 350 prophecies that were spoken before he was born. Christ was GREAT before his birth, while Muhammed or Budda was made "great" after their birth and actually their death.

There are over 1400 prophecies about Christ's return(rapture of the church). Now lets see, he fulfilled 350 before his birth(and lemme tell u, its hard to tell ur mom where u want to be born, especially if they don't know morse code...I tried telling my mom I wanted to be born in London, it didn't work..j/k...lol) So I cannot wait til' he comes back.

I believe that the Bible is the unfallible Word of God that does not contradict itself. I can pick and choose anything out of any book and say it contradicts only becase I don't take the full context of it. Besides the word says that " a carnal(worldly-ungodly) mind cannot perceive the spiritual things."

Great, now I just have to find time to read it!

[Jay7]

I'll be looking out for that book

[Jood]

Srob you believe in rapture?

[Gibby]

Srob you believe in rapture?

I would have to say that he does if he believes the bible as truth, but I don't want to speak for him. I believe in the rapture.http://www.narniafans.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Basilides]

Originally Posted by Astral
Skimmed, mostly. You're not hearing from a catholic or an atheist here. I just read until right about where it said "the Bible is flawless." I have three things to say to that.

"...God is love." - John's First Letter, 4:8
"...Love is kind, it is not jealous." - 1 Corinthians 13:4
"...For I am a jealous God." - Exodus 20:5

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Bible is bad. I'm saying that to interpret every verse literally would result in a heckuva lot of logical fallacies.

I have heard this collection of passages cited as evidence of biblical contradiction before. But it is not a contextually accurate presentation, unfortunately. It is simply a parlour trick, taking a word intended to be used in different senses (jealous "zelo-o" in the Corinthians passage, "kamaw" in the Exodus passage) much as we still use the word differently today.

Although this is not exactly the difference in the Scriptural passage you cited (I'm getting to that), as an example you might be called "jealous" (in the bad sense) if you were angry because your wife or girlfriend went to the movies with her brother instead of spending time with you. On the other hand, you might say "I'm so jealous" (with a smile) if a friend just told you they got to meet Liam Neeson. In the first sense, you are trying to prevent someone from being happy at your expense (so you perceive), and in the second, you are using it in an admiring tone.

There is also a difference of usage in the biblical passages you cited. In the Exodus passage, God is explaining that He isn't going to stand for people worshipping something other than Him (for the very good reason that there is nothing or no one else worth worshipping). For one of god's creatures to worship something else is spiritual infidelity. Worship is the "consummation" of the spirit world.

In the Corinthians passage, Paul uses the word int he sense of "envy against someone else's happiness", meaning that true "agape" does not resent someone else being blessed or happy. Since God knows no happiness can possibly come from worshipping another ahead of Him, this sense of "Zelo-o" can not contextually refer to the Exodus passage.

Unless, of course, one wishes to criticise the bible with a contrived semantic.

Now, as for your statement implying we should not interpret the bible literally, I might agree or disagree with you depending on what you mean by "literally". If you mean "literally" int he sense that we ought to disregard intended allegories and intended poetic devices or prophetic symbolism, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But, on the other hand, if you mean that we should be able to spiritualize every verse with little or no regard to what, in context, the original authors intended the passages to mean (them being inspired by the Holy Spirit), then I think your approach is demonstrably in error.

[Jay7]

I would have to say that he does if he believes the bible as truth, but I don't want to speak for him. I believe in the rapture.http://www.narniafans.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif
Yeah i believe in it. :D

[Saruman]

To think...this year 2006 just might be the final year. :D

But let us always continue to pray for the victorious working of the Holy Spirit. There are many still out there following their own paths, with the God of Love and Life waiting to receive them if they only would turn to Him. There is still hope for men, but today is the day, for tomorrow may never come...

[Astral]

This is why being a Narnia fan is tough for hippies like me.

It's hard to find progressive Christians.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Heck, these days it's hard to find progressive hippies!

:D

[JesusChristRoxMySox]

Well, I am certainly no Catholic, but, as one who is born again and saved by the mercy and grace of my Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, I can say, simply put, of course they've come to pass! There are more than just 350 prophecies, I should think, and all of the prophecies concerning the first coming of Jesus Christ have been fulfilled exactly as spoken.

After all, if it is God's Word, then I think we have no need to fear the fulfillment of prophecy. As God Himself often says, "I have said it, and I will do it." He is God, and that says it all. He is so good!

I agree with you^^^

[Srob]

Srob you believe in rapture?


HECK YES!!!!! I do believe in the rapture of the Church. And it gets me so excited to think that this year, THIS YEAR. I may meet my Lord. Yes I do struggle, but in the struggle is where we really learn who God is to us and really get closer. Too many times we are worried about how we've messed up and look at the past. But God tells us to look toward the future. If we get determined( and I mean really determined) to not feel that "guilt"(even tho the Word says in Romans 8:1 "That there is therefore now NO condemnation to them which are in Christ who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit.) then we would be so much closer. So I guess that is my "new years resolution". SORRY I WILL GET BACK ON TOPIC...lol

I believe in the rapture, and yes the Case for Christ is GREAT---I encourage all to read it. And yes, I believe that Jesus fulfilled prophecy.

As to Arei(sorry if I mispelled user ID) story and others on here about whether or not we should interpret the Bible literally. It is truly very hard to determine what is to be read as literal. Some people believe that the Great Flood was not meant to be taken literal, and that it was a symbolic meaning, while I believe that it was a literal happening and the whole earth was flooded. A lot of things in the book of Revelations should be taken symbolically, while some things we take symbolically may have been meant to be taken literally. Ya know? So you have to be really careful when determining whether its literal or symbolic.

As for the Why Can't I own a Canadian story. Jesus told us that he came to free us from the law. And that when he came,died, and rose again he gave us a new law. Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, and mind and love thy neighbor as thyself. If these 2 rules would be followed then that sums up the 10 commandments. I do believe as Christians we should follow some Old Testament laws, but all of them shouldn't. For Instance, sacrifice. Christ was our final sacrifice, which we paid nothing for, so therefore we have no need to sacrifice animals anymore. And as for the killing, that changes BECAUSE when you come to Christ you are a new Creature. So, if you happened to work on the Sabbath, and then lets say you accept Christ that night, because you were witnessed to or whatever else the reason, you are not going to be killed because of the work. You are a new creature in Christ. Old things have passed away, all things are new. That is my view, I hope i made sense.

Stephen
P.S. I am Charismatic(pentecostal) and I go to a Non-denominational church, but it is charismatic as well. Just some FYI about me.

[Renlaur the Inestimable]

"...God is love." - John's First Letter, 4:8
"...Love is kind, it is not jealous." - 1 Corinthians 13:4
"...For I am a jealous God." - Exodus 20:5



The words in Greek and Hebrew, respectively, that are translated as "jealous" have different meanings. You must remember that, though English uses many words with multiple meanings, other languages (especially Hebrew, it's very specific!) may have a different word for each meaning.
Example:
In English it is perfectly acceptable to use the word "love" in the following ways:
I love my wife. I love my dog. I love pizza. I love my country.

Totally different types of love, right? Well, in Hebrew each of those different types of love would have its own word. It is likely that the translators could not truly translate the Hebrew word "jealous" here. They probably came as close as English will allow, but because the word denoted a very specific type of jealousy that English has no word for, the translation has caused much confusion.

[Gryphon]

I just purchased a book called The Case for Christ the other day. It looks like a good read and has evidence backing up the biblical accounts of the life, ministry, death and ressurection of Christ. Anyone else read it?
OOO i read that book, its really really good, and Jay7 i actually bothered to read all of that and i have to say, all of that was quite facinating, that whole site was cool even though i dont believe in pre-tribulation rapture... oh well

[Saruman]

It's rather a shame that you don't believe in the pre-tribulation rapture. But of course, as long as you can survive during the times of the tribulation, and not receive the mark of the beast, and also survive the wrath of God...wait! I had best stop there; this is where the thought that God will take His church at the end of the tribulation period comes to a halt, and let me tell you why there will be a rapture before the 7-year period of tribulation.

I Cor. 15:51-52: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Well, what does Paul the Apostle, inspired by the Holy Spirit, tell us? He is saying that not all of us will die, but we will (much in the same way as for Enoch and Elijah) be taken up "at the last trump." What's he talking about? It is in reference, particularly, to the Feast of Trumpets, where there were (if I'm not mistaken) three trumps sounded, and the very last one was to gather all the peoples of Israel together in Jerusalem. This is much the same concept: God is going to gather His church (those of us who are born-again, saved by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ) before the time of the great tribulation. If this were not so, then we would be partakers of the wrath of God, but:

I Thess. 5:9-11: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The day of wrath will not be appointed unto us. For this reason God is going to take His church out of here (much in the same way we read in the fictional series called "Left Behind"). Those who are left behind will have the chance to come to Christ, but the happenings during those seven years and the coming of the antichrist will not be pretty. I encourage you to read through Revelation, and through the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament, to understand what's going to happen during those horrible times.

[Gryphon]

I Cor. 15:51-52: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Thats talking about the resurrection of the righteous dead(Luke 14:14) not the rapture. Also, Pre-Tribulation rapture wasnt thought up until the 1830's by an Evangalist who wanted people to come to God. Also, if your going to go somewhere and you dont know how long your going to be gone, your going to pack as much stuff as possible, in likeness we should be ready for the worst, in other words, better safe than sorry. We need to know how to identify the Anti-Christ and and The Mark and the things that are against him in the last days so that we dont falter.

Alot of people believe in pre-trib rapture because the dont want to have to think about having to deal with being martyred, but understand, God will pour out his power too and we will see great things even as satan will me rampant, God will give us new weapons and we will get to see things that generations before us never dreamed of. :)

[Saruman]

Thats talking about the resurrection of the righteous dead(Luke 14:14) not the rapture. Also, Pre-Tribulation rapture wasnt thought up until the 1830's by an Evangalist who wanted people to come to God. Also, if your going to go somewhere and you dont know how long your going to be gone, your going to pack as much stuff as possible, in likeness we should be ready for the worst, in other words, better safe than sorry. We need to know how to identify the Anti-Christ and and The Mark and the things that are against him in the last days so that we dont falter.

In all actuality, it isn't just talking about the righteous dead. Oh, to be sure they will rise too, but our author tells us that "we shall not all sleep;" he means to say that we shall not all die, but shall be caught up in a moment (the Greek word is harpazo, the Latin raptus, where we get our word "rapture" to describe this meaning). The author is specifically speaking of those in Christ, both living (at whatever point in time this will take place) and those who have "fallen asleep."

Where, in the Scripture, do we read that we must be prepared for the coming of antichrist, or learn who he is, or learn what the mark is? We must indeed be vigilant, for our Lord will come "as a thief in the night." He isn't talking about His first coming, nor is He talking about His second coming (where everyone will clearly see Him descending from the heavens to the very spot where He ascended, the Mount of Olives). Rather, Jesus here is speaking to us, His church, that we do not become like the slothful servant of whom He speaks in a parable, who said "my Lord delays His coming," and began to drink and party and the like, until the Lord did indeed return and caught him unprepared.

Alot of people believe in pre-trib rapture because the dont want to have to think about having to deal with being martyred, but understand, God will pour out his power too and we will see great things even as satan will me rampant, God will give us new weapons and we will get to see things that generations before us never dreamed of. :)

Where in the Scripture do you read that we will be given "new weapons" and will "get to see things that generations before us never dreamed of"? Indeed, in this very day and age we are seeing things that generations before us never dreamed of! Could this, then, be the tribulation period? No, it couldn't, because we have come to identify and realize that the 70th week of Daniel, each being a period of 7 years, has not yet come to pass. The antichrist cannot come until God has removed His church out of the way; when he does come, as the leader of the unified Roman Empire (Europe), he will bring a false peace between the Jews and the Muslims, and the Jews will be allowed to build their third temple on the Temple Mount. Then the happenings in revelation will come to transpire.

[Aeradaan]

Curumo is completely right. In the Bible, it says that EVEN THE ELECT OF GOD would have been fooled by the Anti Christ. Keyword: WOULD HAVE. Meaning, they can't be fooled--for they will not be here during the tribulation.

What would be the point of the rapture if not to spare us the tribulation? To give us a few year joyride in the sky? Nope.

[Gryphon]

Curumo is completely right. In the Bible, it says that EVEN THE ELECT OF GOD would have been fooled by the Anti Christ. Keyword: WOULD HAVE. Meaning, they can't be fooled--for they will not be here during the tribulation.

What would be the point of the rapture if not to spare us the tribulation? To give us a few year joyride in the sky? Nope.
where in the bible does it say that? Also, what translation do you use?

in Matthew 24:29 and 30 it says... KJV
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

immediatly AFTER the tribulation of those days the Son will return and rapture his people...

Matthew 24:40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

AFTER the tribulation of those days...

[Gryphon]

In all actuality, it isn't just talking about the righteous dead. Oh, to be sure they will rise too, but our author tells us that "we shall not all sleep;" he means to say that we shall not all die, but shall be caught up in a moment (the Greek word is harpazo, the Latin raptus, where we get our word "rapture" to describe this meaning). The author is specifically speaking of those in Christ, both living (at whatever point in time this will take place) and those who have "fallen asleep."

Where, in the Scripture, do we read that we must be prepared for the coming of antichrist, or learn who he is, or learn what the mark is? We must indeed be vigilant, for our Lord will come "as a thief in the night."
uh, why shouldnt we be ready for him, if we dont know whether or not we are going to face him or not, shouldnt we be prepared anyway, like i said, better safe than sorry.


Where in the Scripture do you read that we will be given "new weapons" and will "get to see things that generations before us never dreamed of"? Indeed, in this very day and age we are seeing things that generations before us never dreamed of!

perhaps i should say, there will be an outpouring of God's power and the weapons we'll have wont be "new" but "enhanced"

besides, Jesus says he was a bridegroom, by Jewish custom, the bridegroom had to go and retrieve his bride after a trumpet announced his coming. The bridegroom came back PERSONALLY to retrieve his bride, dont you think that if Jesus were going to say all of this as a bridegroom that he would follow tradition and come back for us personally?

[Saruman]

where in the bible does it say that? Also, what translation do you use?

in Matthew 24:29 and 30 it says... KJV
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

immediatly AFTER the tribulation of those days the Son will return and rapture his people...

No, what you read in the verse you quote (Mt. 24:40) refers to the exact time in which the Lord Jesus returns to the earth, "for as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be..." (Mt. 24:27). It will be at this time, upon His return to the earth, that He "shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Mt. 24:31). Indeed the elect left during the tribulation period (for there will be believers during those times, after the church age has ended and the time of Jacob's Trouble begins) will be caught up from the four corners of the earth and brought to Jerusalem. I also believe that "the elect" of this time also refers to those 144,000 witnesses (12,000 witnesses from each of the twelve tribes of Israel) whom the Lord will protect supernaturally during the tribulation period.

I Thess. 4:16-18: For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I Thess. 5:1-4: But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the LORD so comes as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Why should we be concerned about the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night, if, upon His second coming, the whole earth will visibly see Him descend from the heavens? The last three verses in chapter four, quoted here above chapter five, specifically refer to a different period of time, when the dead in Christ first raise from the dead, and then we are caught up (harpazo, or, raptus) to join them and meet our Lord in the clouds. This day comes as a thief in the night; His second coming will be for all upon the earth to see.

And those days leading up to His second coming will not be as verse three of I Thess. 5: For when they shall say, Peace and safety, for the judgment of the Lord, the cup of His wrath, will be poured out upon the earth during those days, and indeed the sun will not give light, the moon will turn blood-red, the stars will reign down from the heavens, etc. (from the Book of Revelation).

It's all to say that there is going to be a rapture. God will spare His people from the day of wrath; for those who believe afterwards, there will be great trial awaiting them, for, in the Book of Revelation, we read what is going to happen when the antichrist comes on the scene.

As for the "concept of the rapture" having only begun in the 1830s, I don't really believe the concept began then, but it began when we received the epistles written by Paul to us, all the way back to the days of the early church fathers. There is, as we read, a clear distinction between the second coming of Christ and the rapture of His church, as well as the gathering of the elect upon His second coming. Apples and oranges.

[Gryphon]

wha? They never taught it before then. The concept wasnt thought up until then. Also, if you keep going down in Matthew 24 you see that the rapture is after his return and after the ressurection of the dead, also mentioned in 1 Thess 4:18 as you have mentioned. As for the protection from harm, perhaps now i should bring to light what i believe in. I dont believe in post-tribulation or pre-tribulation rapture, i believe in mid-tribulation rapture. I know that sounds weird but i didnt want to have to take the time to explain it. i wont look up verses right now because its too late so ill sum up so you can understand me a little better. There will be three and a half years in the seven years of tribulation wherein we are martyred by the Beast. After this, Christ returns and raptures us and takes us and in the last 3 and a half years of the Earth God pours out a major "whoop butt" on the un-righteous where Jesus takes the throne on Earth and starts his millenium rule. So there, ill explain it better later but for now, goodnight.

[Green Knight]

The Rapture is a bit late, as it was supposed to have happened in 1984. Something about a certain number of years after the recreation of the nation of Israel. No one knows that date when everything will end, and isn't that implicitly stated in the Bible. Some Biblical scholars now think that the Anti-Christ spoken of in the Bible was the Emperor Nero, and that the number of the Beast was 616, not 666. Prophecies are what you make of them, and you can look anywhere in history to find proof of a prophecy. Accordin to some some other sources, there was more the one Messiah, or at least a bunch of Messiahs. Don't ask me for sources, most of what I'm recounting comes from stuff I have seen in shows broadcast on the History & Discovery Channels, or read on Websites.

[Gryphon]

Well, Green Knight, Discovery Channel also says that Moses was lucky, that Jesus didnt really rise from the dead and that God is just some other supernatural being made up by human peabrains who dont know science. There is only one messiah for Jesus has said "I AM the way, the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the Father EXCEPT through ME." He was God and God cant lie because He IS truth and whatever He says is true. Therefore there is only one messiah and that is Christ for God also said "This is my son for who i am well pleased." As for the rapture being late, you better show me that scripture that tells us just how many years it is cause i wont believe it till i see it. Besides, Jesus said we wouldnt know when He was coming to rapture us so why would anyone pick 1984 is beyond me. If you pastor is Discovery channel then you are in serious trouble. You get back in scripture, dont let satan fool through television and silly little scientists who dont believe in the bible, there are false prophets out there and you need to be ready to decern what is true and what is false. After all, i could probably make a pretty good argument about how the lady dishing out my donuts is the anti-christ but doesnt mean its true is it?

[Jay7]

Didn't know science?

Hmm this sounds like science to me:

Cosmology/Astronomy
Time had a beginning 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, 1 Corinthians 2:72
The universe had a beginning Genesis 1:1, 2:4, Isaiah 42:5, etc.3
The universe was created from the invisible Hebrews 11:34
The dimensions of the universe were created Romans 8:38-395
The universe is expanding Job 9:8, Psalms 104:2, Isaiah 40:22, Isaiah 42:5, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 45:12, Isaiah 48:13, Isaiah 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12, Jeremiah 51:15, Zechariah 12:16
Creation of matter and energy has ended in the universe (refutes steady-state theory) Genesis 2:3-47
The universe is winding down and will "wear out" Psalms 102:25-278
Describes the correct order of creation Genesis 1 (see Day-Age Genesis One Interpretation)
Number of stars exceeds a billion Genesis 22:17, Jeremiah 33:229
Every star is different 1 Corinthians 15:4110
Pleiades and Orion as gravitationally bound star groups Job 38:3111
Light is in motion Job 38:19-2012
The earth is controlled by the heavens Job 38:331
Earth is a sphere Isaiah 40:2213 Job 26:1014
At any time, there is day and night on the Earth
Earth is suspended in space
Earth Sciences
Earth began as a waterworld. Formation of continents by tectonic activity described
Water cycle described
Valleys exist on the bottom of the sea 2
Vents exist on the bottom of the sea
Ocean currents in the sea
Air has weight
Winds blow in circular paths
Biology
The chemical nature of human life
Life of creatures are in the blood
The nature of infectious diseases
Importance of sanitation to health

Source: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencebible.html


Also for those who think Jesus somehow espcaped from the tomb etc read this:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/res3.html
http://mb-soft.com/believe/text/resurrec.htm

And they call it discovery channel?? LOL.
Btw it wasn't supossed to happen in 1984.

[Gibby]

I dont believe in post-tribulation or pre-tribulation rapture, i believe in mid-tribulation rapture. I know that sounds weird but i didnt want to have to take the time to explain it.

Pre-trib believer here, and your comments I quoted below is the reason. Post and mid would contradict this simply because if it were post, then we could say that "Jesus is coming in 7 years" which contradicts below passage, also mid-trib, we would say "Jesus is coming in 3.5 years" which is also a contradiction to below passage.


Besides, Jesus said we wouldnt know when He was coming to rapture us so why would anyone pick 1984 is beyond me.

Matthew 24:36-37

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=35&end_verse=37&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-23991a)] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

[Jay7]

Sorry to but-in, but isn't the Son (Jesus) God?

[Gibby]

Sorry to but-in, but isn't the Son (Jesus) God?

Well, yeah. The NIV states in its concordance that some manuscripts don't have the part, "nor the son".

The NKJV states it this way:
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024:35-37;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23988a)] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

I'm not sure why it was translated in NIV this way. I would hope that Jesus' point was that no one knows except God. Some scholars suggest (http://www.raptureready.com/featured/AnInterpretationofMatthew24_25_33.html) that incarnate Jesus did not know at that time when He was talking to the disciples when His return would be, but most likely knows now. Anybody else have thoughts on this?

[Jay7]

Oh ok thanks, thats interesting. Maybe while God was on earth as Jesus he didn't know, which could be for a number of reasons..

[Green Knight]

Prophecy sounds like magic to me, and aren't Christians supposed to stay away from magic.

I never said that Discovery Channel was my pastor. The 1984 thing was probably something I mis-remembered from one of my college classes. It was an English class taught by a retired Minister.

[Gibby]

Prophecy sounds like magic to me, and aren't Christians supposed to stay away from magic.



Explain this, Green Night; how do you figure?

[Saruman]

Sorry to but-in, but isn't the Son (Jesus) God?

Well, for Jesus to stand about telling people that He is "the Light of the World" and that "before Abraham was, I am," the pharisees and scribes - and most every Jew of the day - knew and understood without a shadow of a doubt what claim Jesus Christ was making.

I have heard it best put by a favorite pastor of mine on the subject: Jesus Christ is going to be one of three things: 1) He is a lunatic, 2) He was a liar, or 3) He is exactly who He says He is.

Judging by the miracles He performed throughout His stay on this earth, we know with certainty that He couldn't have been a lunatic. We know He couldn't have been a liar, for He prophesied concerning the second temple that one stone wouldn't be left standing upon it - and in 70 A.D., it was Titus and the Roman army who utterly obliterated Jerusalem, and later renamed the area Palestine in spite of the Jews.

Some might consider prophecy to be "magic," but it is one of the ways in which God proves His existence and that He is working and considering very carefully all the ways of men. Every single prophecy from the Old Testament concerning Jesus Christ's first coming have been fulfilled to the tee. Psalm 22 is, just off-hand, one of the most classic examples of this fulfillment concerning Christ and what He came to do in order to save us, and this Psalm was written by David, King of Israel about 1,000 years before Christ. Hmm...coincidence? Very unlikely.

The prophecies concerning the rebirth of the nation of Israel in the Book of Ezekiel have come to true, for in May 1948, Israel was proclaimed once more to be a nation. Not only that, Ezekiel the prophet also wrote about how the land would become rich agriculturally, etc., and, having stood as a wasteland and desert for so many centuries, the children of Israel - by the work of God, to whom be praise forever and ever! - have been able to turn Israel into one of the world's richest countries agriculturally-speaking (spiritually speaking, however, it is still in sad condition - but God is at work, and is on the move).

[Gryphon]

Pre-trib believer here, and your comments I quoted below is the reason. Post and mid would contradict this simply because if it were post, then we could say that "Jesus is coming in 7 years" which contradicts below passage, also mid-trib, we would say "Jesus is coming in 3.5 years" which is also a contradiction to below passage.

Matthew 24:36-37

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&verse=35&end_verse=37&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-23991a)] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

i understand where your coming from, but have you read the rest of that chapter? Jesus says "Immediatly AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will darken and the stars will fall from the sky." after is says this it describes the rapture. AFTER the tribulation of those days. So we know (because of what he himself said) that he will come back after the tribulation of those days. We dont know the exsact day or hour but we can know that he is coming soon.

[Green Knight]

Explain this, Green Night; how do you figure?

Here are some passages:

Exodus 22:18
Leviticus 19:26; 19:31; 20:6
Deuteronomy 18:10-11
Isaiah 8:19
Malachai 3:5

Prophecy is a form of Divination, and divination is magic. Christians are not supposed to use Astrology, Haruspex(read the organs of a freshly slaughtered animal), Lots; Numerology, Palm Reading, Runes, Scrying, Card Reading, Tea Leaves, Dreams, or Channeling of Spirits.

[Gibby]

i understand where your coming from, but have you read the rest of that chapter? Jesus says "Immediatly AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will darken and the stars will fall from the sky." after is says this it describes the rapture. AFTER the tribulation of those days. So we know (because of what he himself said) that he will come back after the tribulation of those days. We dont know the exsact day or hour but we can know that he is coming soon.

Jesus second coming is completely different from the "rapture". The rapture is all of His church being removed from earth prior to the 7-year tribulation. Then we will come back with him during His second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Zechariah 14:3-5

3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=zecharia%2014:3-5;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23074a)] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Also, Jesus said that all would be well prior to His church being brought up to Him.(Matthew 24:38). I don't think people will be doing the things described in verse 38 if the tribulation is as bad as it is portrayed. I don't know about you, but I certainly hope for the pre-trib myself.

Also, antichrist won't be revealed until after the rapture.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-11

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20thessalonians%202:1-11;&version=31;#fen-NIV-29649a)] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

"but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."

"he" being the Holy Spirit which is present in all believers.

OK, this is where I am coming from, but it is not good to nitpick this part of prophecy. The important thing is that Jesus IS coming soon and we should all be ready. I am not saying pre-trib is right, period (even though I hope so) and any other way is wrong by any means. I guess when we meet in heaven, Gryphon, one of us can say "I told you so!"

[Gibby]

Here are some passages:

Exodus 22:18
Leviticus 19:26; 19:31; 20:6
Deuteronomy 18:10-11
Isaiah 8:19
Malachai 3:5

Prophecy is a form of Divination, and divination is magic. Christians are not supposed to use Astrology, Haruspex(read the organs of a freshly slaughtered animal), Lots; Numerology, Palm Reading, Runes, Scrying, Card Reading, Tea Leaves, Dreams, or Channeling of Spirits.

I agree with you totally on all those, Green Night. God gave us prophecy, which is descriptions of future events, in His Word so that we have hope in Him. The bible is a prophetic book. He didn't tell us to throw bones on the ground or go to some gypsy in the country to show us what is coming; He revealed it in His Word. Jesus Himself referred to prophecy concerning His purpose and future coming. Jesus is the fulfillment of over 350 OT prophecies and there were many more and there are some that describe the future from now.

[Gryphon]

Jesus second coming is completely different from the "rapture". The rapture is all of His church being removed from earth prior to the 7-year tribulation. Then we will come back with him during His second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Zechariah 14:3-5

3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=zecharia%2014:3-5;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23074a)] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Also, Jesus said that all would be well prior to His church being brought up to Him.(Matthew 24:38). I don't think people will be doing the things described in verse 38 if the tribulation is as bad as it is portrayed. I don't know about you, but I certainly hope for the pre-trib myself.

Also, antichrist won't be revealed until after the rapture.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-11

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20thessalonians%202:1-11;&version=31;#fen-NIV-29649a)] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

"but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."

"he" being the Holy Spirit which is present in all believers.

OK, this is where I am coming from, but it is not good to nitpick this part of prophecy. The important thing is that Jesus IS coming soon and we should all be ready. I am not saying pre-trib is right, period (even though I hope so) and any other way is wrong by any means. I guess when we meet in heaven, Gryphon, one of us can say "I told you so!"
i dont see how 1 Thess. 4:16 and 17 dissprove mid or post tribulation rapture. I've already told you that i believe that we (the church) will be martyred by the anti-christ and in the second part of the tribulation, God will pour out his judgment over the wicked. He (the Son) will come and rapture his Bride when he fights, as you have stated in Zachariah 14:3-5. As for the verse Matthew 24:38 they are talking about wicked people for in the verse above it Matthew 24:38 says:

"When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah's day."

So what was it like in Noah's day? We go to Genisis 6:5,11 which says:

"5The Lord observed the extent of human wickedness on earth and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistantly and totally evil.11Now God saw that the Earth had become corrupt and was filled with violence."

that doesnt sound very good to me. And your right, the anti-christ wont be exposed to people for what he really is until AFTER the church is martyred and taken to heaven in the rapture. You may hope that God gives us pre-tribulation rapture but i could hope that God is going to give me a pony. It doenst mean its going to happen. i urge you to be ready to combat the anti-christ. Its vital that you do this. Even IF we get raptured beforehand then at least you were ready to fight him right? If we dont have to combat him then fine, but if we arent sure (like i've said several times) better safe than sorry. I dont want to point at you and say "I told you so." i want to meet you in Heaven period. (not that i doubt you wont go im just saying thats the whole point)

[Gryphon]

also, to the Green Knight, Gibby is right, 1/3 of the bible concerns prophesy. not only that but there are over 10,000 prophesies in there. Prophesy and withcraft are totally diffrent, witchcraft is manipulating spirits (or trying to) and prophesy is God speaking to His people about His will and His love. Please dont listen to science, listen to God dont let the TV rule how you think about escatology (study of the end times)

[Gibby]

As for the verse Matthew 24:38 they are talking about wicked people for in the verse above it Matthew 24:38 says:

"When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah's day."

So what was it like in Noah's day? We go to Genisis 6:5,11 which says:

"5The Lord observed the extent of human wickedness on earth and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistantly and totally evil.11Now God saw that the Earth had become corrupt and was filled with violence."




2 Timothy 3: 1-9
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. 6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

This verse in 2 Timothy is like the days of Noah, also. This description sound like the world today?

Matthew 24:38

38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

I don't know about you, but when this happens: "There was a great earthquake. the sun turned black like sackloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth..." (rev 5:12-13) I don't see people eating and drinking and marrying and I think they might have an idea what is going to happen when this all comes about.

...i urge you to be ready to combat the anti-christ...

I will. After all, you may be right; I certainly don't know for a fact that I am right...thanks.

[onlymystory]

I just wanted to comment on the idea to be ready for the tribulation. We need to be ready now. I just wanted to toss out a few lines from a Casting Crowns song that I think are very appropriate right now.
What if the armies of the Lord
Picked up and dusted off their swords
Vowed to set the captives free
And not let satan have one more

What if the church, for heaven's sake
Finally stepped up to the plate
Took a stand upon God's promise
And stormed hell's rusty gates

Chorus:
What if His people prayed
And all who bare His name
Would humbly seek His face
And Turn from their own way

And what would happen if we prayed
For those raised up to lead the way
Then maybe kids in school could pray
And unborn children see light of day

What if the life that we pursue
Came from a hunger for the truth
What if the family turned to Jesus
Stopped asking Oprah what to do

He said that they would hear
His promise has been made
He'll answer loud and clear
If only we would pray

If My people called by My name
If they'll humble themselves and pray
If My people called by My name
If they'll humble themselves and pray

a little off topic but at the same time, a good thought. maybe we should stop listening to people about how to live and start listening to God. he tends to be right.

on the prophecy note, I agree with earlier posts. Prophecy is different from most forms of divination. hence the reason there are much harsher punishments for a false prophet in the Bible than for those who merely practice various forms of witchcraft.

[Green Knight]

A good number of the problems we are seeing in the US are because certain polticans think we are living in the End Times. Its alright to let things slide, because pretty soon, the Rapture will happen, and the God will fix the world. We have been living in the End Times since Christ hung on the Cross, and guess what, we'll still be in the End Times years after all of us have returned to the dust. The Second Millenium has come and gone, and we are still here. Try to be the best person that you can be, the best Christian you can be, and don't worry if it will all end, because people have been waiting for it to end 2000 years. God has given us all manner of tests and temptations down through the years, and because we are still here, we seem to have passed them. Prophecy is 20/20, just like hindsight. The Bible give us hints about Gods plans, read it, then go out and live it. Do go around with Christian hubris, and try to tread your fellow man as you yourself want to be treated.

[Gryphon]

A good number of the problems we are seeing in the US are because certain polticans think we are living in the End Times. Its alright to let things slide, because pretty soon, the Rapture will happen, and the God will fix the world. We have been living in the End Times since Christ hung on the Cross, and guess what, we'll still be in the End Times years after all of us have returned to the dust. The Second Millenium has come and gone, and we are still here. Try to be the best person that you can be, the best Christian you can be, and don't worry if it will all end, because people have been waiting for it to end 2000 years. God has given us all manner of tests and temptations down through the years, and because we are still here, we seem to have passed them. Prophecy is 20/20, just like hindsight. The Bible give us hints about Gods plans, read it, then go out and live it. Do go around with Christian hubris, and try to tread your fellow man as you yourself want to be treated.

wha? the millenium reign has not happened. Jesus will come back in person for his reign, that hasnt happened yet.

as for Gibby, i could be wrong, one day when we meet it shall one interesting conversation wont it?

[Gibby]

as for Gibby, i could be wrong, one day when we meet it shall one interesting conversation wont it?

Well, I think when we get to heaven and get the big picture, we are both going to be slapping our foreheads and saying, "duh, now I get it!"

[Gryphon]

Well, I think when we get to heaven and get the big picture, we are both going to be slapping our foreheads and saying, "duh, now I get it!"
i dont know why but that sounds like fun for some reason...

[Wallis]

Point of order:

catholic: universal
Catholic: as in Roman Catholic

Prophecies are looked at as been fulfilled by looking backwards. Unfortunately, since many of the prophecies are couched in mythological, theological, and philosophical times, people can interpret their fulfillment in just about any way they want to.

I once read a book that claimed that each of the Psalms was a prophecy for a particular year. Oft times, the author went out of the way to try to tie an event to prove that the prophecy had indeed come true.

Personally, I'd rather look forward than backward while at the same time believing that God is walking right beside me all the way.

[waterhogboy]

Oooooo!!! fun!!

Are we starting a premillenial/amillenial/postmilennial discussion!! *bounces up and down on seat*

Only kidding - hey GK, your right that its wrong for people to start slacking with things just becuase they think we're in the end times. We're told in the Bible that no one knows when God will come, and that it will be like a thief in the night so we ought to be prepared.

[Jay7]

Good to see my thread going soemwhere without me. ;) ill just be reading along for now..

[Gibby]

Good to see my thread going soemwhere without me. ;) ill just be reading along for now..

Oh come on; miss all the fun? http://www.narniafans.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Gibby]

Only kidding - hey GK, your right that its wrong for people to start slacking with things just becuase they think we're in the end times. We're told in the Bible that no one knows when God will come, and that it will be like a thief in the night so we ought to be prepared.

The other day I saw a bumper sticker that said, "Jesus is coming soon, look busy". Man, that made me laugh. If they only knew...

[Jay7]

Oh come on; miss all the fun? http://www.narniafans.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ill join in soon, once it gets to an area i think i have a comment on ;)

The other day I saw a bumper sticker that said, "Jesus is coming soon, look busy". Man, that made me laugh. If they only knew...[/img]

Haha :D