Tirian

[Puzzle dear]

When I first read it I found King Tirian unlikable. He was going to kill Puzzle, without listening to Puzzle's side of the story. Tirian has this sort of smite first ask questions later kind of attitude.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Oh, come on - remember what Tirian had been through, and what was happening to his people. All he knew that there was a fraud being perpetrated, and one of the perpetrators was right in front of him. That's wartime justice. Tirian was a great king - just and strong and wise.

[Puzzle dear]

Yeah but with Puzzle he assumed the worst without letting Puzzle explain!

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Well, "the worst", at the time, was pretty bad. Besides, that's why kings have advisors like Jill and Eustace - to help them not make dreadful mistakes.

[Puzzle dear]

That's why I like Jill, she saved him.

[unleavened]

Ok, no one get offened. It's partually b/c he's a guy. Guys are more like that.

Also I don't blame Tirian mostly b/c of what PotW said. We all make mistakes, and aren't we glad for people like Jill who help us see the light through our anger and strife? :)

[Puzzle dear]

I said when I first read it I didn't like him, now it's just his stab first ask questions later thing that I don't like about him.

[Kitt]

One thing that had been established about Tirian earlier in the book, was that he had a hot temper. 'Act first, ask questions later', as when he and Jewel killed the Calormenes who were abusing the talking horse. It made him a more developed character. But yes, lucky he had his friends there to make him see reason about Puzzle.

[Gondor Knight of Narnia]

I felt kinda sorry for Tirian at first,because Narnia was invaded by Calormene, and Shift's treacherous deeds... :D

[unleavened]

I said when I first read it I didn't like him, now it's just his stab first ask questions later thing that I don't like about him.
Yeah, I'd definately say it's his flaw. I didn't like that about him either. Good thing, too. I don't think Lewis wanted us to.

[onlymystory]

well, and remember what Aslan meant to the Narnians. All Tirian knew was that there was a false Aslan. To him, someone who had the gall to impersonate Aslan deserved instant death. And remember how people reacted to 9/11? They didn't want to ask questions they wanted to get the people who attacked us. And Tirian has it worse, his country is already being overrun. I say his biggest flaw is not being aware of the happenings in Narnia before.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

You're right there, onlymystory. How did all those Calormenes get into Narnia without Tirian being aware of them? A lot was already coming down before he even got deeply involved. I'd never quite thought of it that way.

[Puzzle dear]

In the book they kind of figured out that Shift was in league with the Calormenes long before he found the skins, I think.

[onlymystory]

no, i meant why didn't Tirian realize there were invaders in Narnia? LWW comments on how the pevensies were busy cleaning up Narnia and Caspian does the same thing. I realize that there was considerable peace in Narnia during Tirian's time, but a king is supposed to be aware of the state of his country. Especially a small one like Narnia. My problem with Tirian is he has no idea about what's going on.

[Puzzle dear]

Oh, sorry I misunderstood. That is a good question.

[Aslan'sgirl]

I have no idea how they got in. Well, Tirian was one of my favorite characters, he was so awesome and powerful. Extremly loyal to Aslan.

[scumhorror]

I think he was justified…not saying he was right…he is king of narnia and he loves his subjects…it’s unthinkable to even ride a talking horse unless it’s of great need… when he saw the talking horses being abused he acted quickly and decisively…aslan didn’t and never would have given that order so he was 100 persent right…but when he believed aslan did give the order he surrender him self to the justice of aslan…

He had very strong convections…he lived and breathed by aslan so when he saw a donkey pretending…a false gad…he acted in a justified manner…

i liked him from the start

[DeplorableWord]

When I first read it I found King Tirian unlikable. He was going to kill Puzzle, without listening to Puzzle's side of the story. Tirian has this sort of smite first ask questions later kind of attitude.

I seems that you're too black and white in how you determine how you like characters- if they like "Puzzle dear" then they're good, and if they don't like Puzzle, or do something "almost mean," like Tirian, they're bad.

I think you need to expand your horizons a little bit, if that's the proper term. :o

[Knight of Narnia]

It's interesting that Shift had been in league with the Calormens for so long with no one noticing. I guess that Tirian had gotten contented with his kingdom (he was out hunting when the false aslan appeared). There was peace in Narnia for so long (six gereations) that I guess everyone just got so used to the peace and let their guard down.

[Lord Moseley]

i know that tirian is the king of narnia
but peter is still higher than him right?
who and how did he became king? does the book explain it..?
i havent read the last battle yet so i dont know...

[queen_aravis]

you should consider reading it before posting at this forum.
And Tirian, of course, is a descendant of Rilian and Caspian and all the others that came after them.

[she-elfwarrior19]

I understand Tirian's reaction to kill Puzzle i dont blame him at all.
After going through everything and seeing his country suffer and seeing the animal that was apart of ruining eveything he had a good reason to almost behead the donkey.
If you were angry puzzle_dear and went through everyuthing that Tirian went thorugh and seeing his land and country he loves suffer, if you were in his shoes and are face to face with the animal who was apart of im sure you'd feel the saem way Tirian did with killing him.

[Midnight Rider]

I understand Tirian's reaction to kill Puzzle i dont blame him at all.
After going through everything and seeing his country suffer and seeing the animal that was apart of ruining eveything he had a good reason to almost behead the donkey.
If you were angry puzzle_dear and went through everyuthing that Tirian went thorugh and seeing his land and country he loves suffer, if you were in his shoes and are face to face with the animal who was apart of im sure you'd feel the saem way Tirian did with killing him.
Absolutely;)

[Puzzle dear]

Look people, I'm not saying that I hate him, I like him now that I read the book over. All I'm saying is that he shouldn't go around killing people without letting them explain. And don't you try and make Puzzle the bad guy here! He said he was sorry, and besides it was inevitable that Narnia was gonna be destroyed even if he hadn't been forced to wear that skin.

[she-elfwarrior19]

We know you arent hating him we are just mentioning that Tirian had his reasons to do what he almost did, but the donkey apologized and Jill practically begged him not to hurt the brute.

[Puzzle dear]

Okay, okay. I get it! I admit that it was kind of Puzzle's fault that this whole thing happened with Narnia ending, but you shouldn't go about trying to make him look like the bad guy! I'm not overly obsessed with him, just to make it clear. Why don't you look at it from his point of view?

[she-elfwarrior19]

B/c i dont enjoy looking through a donkeys point of view:D:D
Just Kidding

I look at shift as the bad guy, not the donkey, but shouldnt he have had some backbone to say NO to the annoiyng brat monkey thing he should have stuck upp for himself but thats how the book is and everythig turned out fine in the end and the annoying monkey got what he deserved.

[Knight of Narnia]

Puzzle did try to say no, but Shift was clever with his words and coerced Puzzle intp dressing up like Aslan. If Shift was clever enough to convince the Calormens to sneak into Narnia, then he was easily clever enough and persuasive enough to trick poor Puzzle.

[Puzzle dear]

Thank you Knight of Narnia!

[she-elfwarrior19]

Is that what you been trying to tell us Puzzle_dear?

[Rhyanidd]

I think that Tirian wasnt "unaware" its just that things happen under our noses...he may have let his gaurd down because of all the peace, however even a king extremely aware of everything can end up in a situation like this. There are always holes in countrys secruitys....and if you have spies you can learn them and then do things to the country without the ruler finding out!!

[Puzzle dear]

Is that what you been trying to tell us Puzzle_dear?
Yes, it was! Oh btw, just call me Puzzle.

[she-elfwarrior19]

Alright cool, glad we got that starightened out Puzzle:D

[Gryphon]

haha, that is strange seeing as how Tirian is my favorite King of Narnia. :D

[DeplorableWord]

Ya, I love him too, Gryphon! He's awesomeness all through and through! :)

[Parthian King]

Have you considered, anyone, that in both Caspian and Tirian the same biblical type is embodied? Both of them, in their own way, are the biblical Josiah. As a child, Josiah feared the Lord, and as a young man he restored true worship in Judah--making him a parallel to Caspian. As a mature man, Josiah fought the good fight in the face of an idolatrous population, and died a hero. He was the last good king of Judah--the next good king to reign on David's thone will be the One who sits there forever, the Lord Jesus in His glory. Next to Josiah, no king--not even David--compares in purity of heart toward God. In this way, he is like Tirian (or rather, Tirian is like him).

Have you also considered that beyond the Pevensies, the only kings whose reigns and personalities are really described to us are Caspian and Tirian? We are told of others (i.e., that there were others), but they are "flat" characters, dots on the timeline of Narnia, as it were (Rilian is a bit more developed, but there is never an interactive narative of his reign; we get more action out of Caspian after his death than we get out of Rilian!). Since Caspian and Tirian are the only two kings we really hear about, there is a special connection between the two. These characters do not have a competetive relationship, but a complementary one.

[DeplorableWord]

I have never thought about that. Do you mean to say that Lewis fashioned Tirian and Caspian after Josiah? I didn't think that he(Lewis) meant to have certain characters in his book like the characters in the Bible.

[Parthian King]

Well, I'm not sure I would buy straight out that he did not mean to fashion his characters after Bible characters. I think to argue that he meant there to be an exact, one to one relationship for every character would certainly be a distortion. But on the other hand, biblical types, or archetypes are clearly in play in his stories. I am not saying it is necessary to see that each Narnian character represents a single biblical one (except for Aslan), but combinations of these archetypes are obviously in the mix.

Josiah himself, though an historical king, is highly archetypal. Anytime you get descriptions like those that describe him (purest, holiest, most sincere, etc.), that's archetype. The same applies to David and Solomon, who become larger than life characters in the Bible. These archetypes are realities that float around and are tapped into by story tellers. If I tell you a story about a young princess, kidnapped and held by a dragon, then rescued by a young knight who kills the dragon then marries her, well, that's me tapping into a bunch of archetypes. I reference things both consciously and unconsciously when I choose to tell such a story.

So, do I think that there is some sort of a "Bible code," that Lewis meant for us to think of Josiah and only Josiah, and we have "missed it" until we do? No, certainly not. But do I think that Josiah as a character, embodying certain archetypes that are bigger than the historical man, was part of Lewis' symbolic vocabulary that he tapped into to create this figure? Yes, absolutely I believe that. Lewis was too literate and too biblically minded for the similarities to be purely coincidence. When writing a story of an ideal land ruled by kings, how could he not think of kings in the Bible, when, after all, the story is mostly about the King of kings from the Bible?

[PrinceOfTheWest]

That's a very interesting point, and it's even more interesting when you consider that the ideal behind Josiah's reign was the return to the foundational principles. The scroll of Torah was found during his reign and when read to him, he wept - and then devoted the rest of his life to returning Israel to that principle. This is a recurring theme in the Chronicles. Consider this:

Lion: the White Witch's reign is an interruption of the normal life of Narnia, and the children's arrival returns the land to its prior state.

Caspian: The Telmarine invasion has obliterated Narnia's true identity, and the invaders are transforming the country into their image (notice the vignettes presented during Aslan's Romp: all of children, beasts, and the child-hearted having someone else's will imposed on them). The handful of survivors are referred to as "Old Narnians". Caspian's greatest wish is that the country would return to the way it was before his forefathers invaded, and with the help of Aslan and the Kings and Queens, he succeeds.

Last Battle: Tirian leads what turns out to be a rearguard action to defend and restore the proper Narnian order against the treasonous Narnians and Calormenes.

In a lesser way, but still as a noticeable subtheme, you've got:

Horse: Though he isn't aware, Shasta is returning to his roots, and ultimately the proper order of things is restored when he makes it back to King Lune. His success fends off the imposition of an alien order on Archenland and, ultimately, Narnia.

Chair: Again, the restoration of a lost prince, though under different circumstances. The whole purpose of the mission was to restore the original order of things, which had been interrupted by the Witch's scheming. Again, the success of the venture heads off the imposition of an alien order on Narnia.

These themes aren't as noticeable in Dawn Treader or Nephew, but it's still interesting to see how strongly the idea of the restoration of the earlier, proper order shows up in the stories. Of course, that's only to be expected, since so much of the encouragement in Scripture is for us to cling to what we've been given, preserve it carefully, and pass it along faithfully. Small wonder so many of Narnia's problems are caused by people trying to mess with the way Aslan wanted the land to be!

[CentaurMan]

in my oppinion Tirian is my favorite King because he just keeps to his word and never went back on his word

[she-elfwarrior19]

King Tirian's my man:D:D
LOL:)I love King Tirian<3

[Tirian of Narnia]

Think aboute it though, if someone was invading the country you were king of and murdering all youre freinds(talking trees) You would`nt just sit there would you? I sure would`nt, and when I saw the talking horse being whiped and shoved by the Colormans I would have dun the same exact thing thing as Tirian and Jewel. And as for Tirian wanting to kill Puzzle(by the way I`m a Puzzle fan to) How was he suposed to now that the donkey was`nt as evil and sneaky as Shift?

[she-elfwarrior19]

Who are you talking to?

[pink-cheetah]

i think tirian liked lucy.

[Tirian of Narnia]

Yeah, it seemed like it did'nt it. :confused:

[Mrs Gil-Galad Took]

Yes, in the chapters he had much admiration for Lucy, but who wouldn't? Lucy was friendly and kind.

[she-elfwarrior19]

Alot of narnians admired her b/c she was a very good, kind type of person.

[NarnianMaster]

are u kidding me?? Tirian is the best character in the whole entire books!! all 7 of 'em!! Once i read the very 1st chapt. with Tirian in it i said to myself "He's soo cool!!" i really loved his personality

[PrinceOfTheWest]

That's right - and he was especially enraptured by her voice. She was so delighting in being in the new Narnia (though she didn't know it yet) that she didn't speak much at first, but when she began speaking, the "music" of her wonder came out. I guess that she didn't change much as she aged, remaining childlike even as a woman.

Edit: I was responding to Peter Lover's post - didn't see those two intermediate.

[pink-cheetah]

im thinking he loved her voice though.

[Ithilien]

Well, to him, Lucy was a legendary heroine and Queen of Narnia. How would you feel about someone like that if she suddenly showed up by your side. So, I wouldn't say he loved her. He admired her and was devoted to her.

[she-elfwarrior19]

Yes thats very true Ithilien