Students being paid to do well in school

[~The Narnia Addict~]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/nyregion/05incentive.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/hs/mckinley/2008/06/should_students_be_paid_to_ach.html

I find bribing kids to do well in school is both idiotic and a waste of tax dollars. If a child needs to be bribed to do well, they will never do good in life. The sense of accomplishment would be completely diminished.

If students don't care about school, don't make me waste my money on them. They can bag my groceries and make great garbage men for me in 10 years.

Discuss.

[Copperfox]

During my Naval service, I had some delightful occasions to be a guest speaker at public schools, and at the risk of boasting I will say that I was mostly very successful at holding my audience's attention. It still is _not_ impossible, even in this degenerate age, to get kids _interested_ in learning something.

[Jack of Blades]

While I agree that kids needing money to have the ambition to do well in school isn't really doing them any good.
I'd still like to be paid to get As :)

[SpiritedWolf]

Well I've never gotten paid for my grades, but I know some people in my schools that get 50dollars for each A they get!!! That's REDICULIOUS!!!!!! The kids don't even try!

I think it's stupid to get paid for grades. It makes kids spoiled. I know that I strive for good grades but I don't need to get paid!!

[FallOutGirl]

Hey I know I would love to be paid for doing well in school ha! that would be amazing!:D

[bruiser]

I think that the reason why they are paying kids to do well in school is just to give them the motivation to get good grades. I can see their reasoning in what they are doing and why. Alas, I don't agree with what they are doing.

I was paid $5 when I was in elementary school for every A that I recieved. Which was kinda only because of the fact that I had been the only one in my family to do so good in school. Now, however I am not getting paid. Which I think is because of the fact that I have always held all A's except for a few times that I have had a B or two thrown in there. So it was getting annoying, I guess, to my Grandma [the one who was paying me] to pay me at least $15 everytime my report card came out.

[~The Narnia Addict~]

I think that the reason why they are paying kids to do well in school is just to give them the motivation to get good grades. I can see their reasoning in what they are doing and why. Alas, I don't agree with what they are doing.

I was paid $5 when I was in elementary school for every A that I recieved. Which was kinda only because of the fact that I had been the only one in my family to do so good in school. Now, however I am not getting paid. Which I think is because of the fact that I have always held all A's except for a few times that I have had a B or two thrown in there. So it was getting annoying, I guess, to my Grandma [the one who was paying me] to pay me at least $15 everytime my report card came out.

Getting paid by relatives is completely different then getting paid by the government. Your Grandma is paying out of her pocket, the government is wasting my tax dollars on kids that don't need to get paid.

[Copperfox]

Amen! I once had a counselling/teaching job in a state-run program which _paid_ lazy, spoiled high-school kids to attend. The majority of these kids, programmed into the welfare-state mentality, _chose_ to believe that the money they received was _owed_ to them by "the man," and that _they_ did not have an obligation to do _anything_ in return--unless you count it as doing something to be disruptive and obnoxious, and to use accusations of "racism" (which THEY KNEW TO BE FALSE even as they spoke them) as a tactic to deflect all criticism or correction.

[~Lava~]

For awhile, I was getting more than enough scholarships for college. I had enough money after books to not have to get a job during the semester. It was money from the government and you did not have to be an all A student to get the type of money I was getting. I will not be getting that type of help this year because the money that they were giving me would have been money that I was using to pay for a dorm if I had not lived in my parents house; I am in a dorm for the first time this semester.

[Doffen]

If students don't care about school, don't make me waste my money on them. They can bag my groceries and make great garbage men for me in 10 years.

Discuss.

"for you"? :p Doesn't Garbage men belong to the same community and have the same honorable and honest kind of living like you? ;)


Besides from that, you're completely right.

[~Lava~]

Doffen is right. In fact, Garbage men may actually accumulate more income than lawyers and such. They do not have to drive the fancy cars and have a keep-up-with-the-Jones's look so they are able save more money. There is a man in a town near my who has the modern equivalent of a mansion and he made his millions in Trash.

[Doffen]

And why shouldn't garbage men get that kind of money? They have a honest trade, and their really working for something important. Why couldn't the thread starter take another approach? Like the service coordinators in Apple or something. Totally useless ;)

[SweetWaters]

I don't know where you guys are from, but I knew someone who tried being a garbageman for a while, and it was probably one of the worst jobs on the planet...totally not worth the money they were paying him. :eek:

It is pretty dumb for the government to have to be giving out money for good grades, but the American education system has become pretty desperate. Half the population can't become illiterate garbagemen or grocery baggers, as you say, at least not according to the standards we have set for ourselves. I personally don't know what to say about it. The problem isn't just with the government, it's with the kids, the parents, the teachers - we all have the wrong attitudes. We're all in it to do as little as we can to get as much as we can.

[holyboy]

And why shouldn't garbage men get that kind of money? They have a honest trade, and their really working for something important. Why couldn't the thread starter take another approach? Like the service coordinators in Apple or something. Totally useless ;)

A little off-topic, but I will address this. Although both are honest jobs, lawyers require something like 8 years of university average before they can even start making money being a lawyer. A garbage man, on average, only requires a high school education. A lawyer will therefore have to work a lot harder and pay more money to aquire the job. Therefore, it only makes sence that, in reward for their hard work without getting paid, we give them on average a bigger salary then garbage men.

And it would have been nicer if the thread started out on a lighter note.

Now back on topic: I do not believe giving money in elementary school for good grades is a good idea. Many educators believe that if a child gets anything lower then a C- before they are in grade 5, it is the educators and the parent's fault, not the child's. Therefore, you are rewarding the child for something they can't really control, but is more about how quickly their brain is delevoping as a child.

As for older grades, I know many kids who are rewarded for good grades. It's called scholarships. Most, if not all, university institutions use money, which they recieve from the government and students in the university, to attract students to their university with lower tuition rates. Do you believe this is the same as bribing kids for getting As, and why/why not?

[Lord of Light]

Giving money to kids of any age to do well in school can be put in one simple word: stupid. Kids do not need money to do well in school. They need determination. For example: I am 16 years old and already out of highschool. Was it because I was smart? Maybe. But it was more because I was determined and therefore went through several grades in one year. The only thing that would help encourage determination, however, is self-esteem, which many of you could probably tell me that you "beat yourself up".

[Kells]

As for older grades, I know many kids who are rewarded for good grades. It's called scholarships. Most, if not all, university institutions use money, which they recieve from the government and students in the university, to attract students to their university with lower tuition rates. Do you believe this is the same as bribing kids for getting As, and why/why not?

I don't believe that scholarships are quite the same since they are rewarding students who have shown that they can earn good grades without being paid for 12 years before college. (Or at least most of them haven't being paid to get As. :rolleyes: )

[Copperfox]

Awarding scholarships is more like making an investment, counting on the student to make proper use of the opportunity for learning so as eventually to give something back to society.

[Elentari]

It is pretty dumb for the government to have to be giving out money for good grades, but the American education system has become pretty desperate. Half the population can't become illiterate garbagemen or grocery baggers, as you say, at least not according to the standards we have set for ourselves. I personally don't know what to say about it. The problem isn't just with the government, it's with the kids, the parents, the teachers - we all have the wrong attitudes. We're all in it to do as little as we can to get as much as we can.

As a young teacher, I would have to agree, to a point. There are still many teachers, parents, and students out there who care about education enough to do their part, but the ones who have the "gimme" attitude or the "what do I get from it" attitude seem to make the most noise. The issue here seems to be the use of incentives and what type of incentives. In the elementary schools I have been in during college and in the last year, every school has some kind of incentive program--though usually it is for behavior not academics. Younger children (up through 4th grade, usually) enjoy "school store money" to purchase erasers, cute little gadgets, and pencils. Older kids need different incentives, but homework passes, eating lunch in the classroom, and other tangible (and free!) incentives can work.

If a high school student, for example, has no plans to attend a college or university, then a scholarship will not be incentive for them to succeed. In this case, rewarding good grades and/or behavior with something tangible--like a class focused on a career they would like to follow, or getting to be a teacher's assistant for underclassmen, may be something to work for. If perfect or close to attendance could "earn" an early release or day off of school at the end of a grading period for the students who make school a priority, that could also b viewed as incentive.

The big problem facing schools now is that children today DO have a sense of "entitlement" that was not the case earlier in history. For many, school has ceased to become a place of learning and undiscovered knowledge and has instead become a "jail" to "get through" until you at last are "free" to go about your life as you please.

Final note: No incentive plan works 100% of the time. Some schools reward general achievement, some reward positive behavior that is not enforced elsewhere in the child's life, and some reward personal growth/achievement (which is usually the one that works the best). While money can be used as incentive for all of these, it WILL give the impression of entitlement.

[queenaravis707]

The only thing the government is doing to kids by doing this is spoiling them. And who knows if the kid is even getting good grades by himself? If he's desperate for money, why go study and waste endless hours doing homework? Why not call a friend and see if she has the homework and copy it from her? (Not my mindset, but its a teen my age's mindest) It's gonna come back and nip the kid in the bud and in the end, when you really need the information and doesn't have it, its going to affect them. I'm in school myself, and I know that this goes on. I personally, get very good grades, but I would hate if I did lots of work and got a good grade and someone got the same grade from cheating, yet we both get paid. I think kids should learn that life isn't handed to them on a silver platter, and we have to work hard to acheive things. Scholarships (which I'm trying to get) proves that they can get good grades and continue to get good grades. Just paying them for getting an A on a test is different.
Besides, that might even pressure kids who learn a little slower or can't make A's all the time to do things to get the A and the money.
Wow, that was one longpost...

[loverble]

Soem kids get EMA in my school which means that they get between £10 and £30 a week. And they get £100 bonus when they do their exams. Well turn up that is. They get it if their parents earn under a certain amount a year. I ahve one friend who's one parent works for himself so she is claiming when she has £4000 in her bank account and a job. She also gets another £90 a term. She is also one of the one's that gets £30 a week. So her parents help her claim that they earn less then they do. They also claimed that a concertitory was for his job so he got the money for that back as well... It's ridicules. She also has a job, just to make it worce.

[Copperfox]

Queenaravis has a good point. There's already so much exam cheating in schools, a kid facing an exam and getting a crib sheet from one who took the exam before might be splitting the money with his "helper."

[PixieDust]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/nyregion/05incentive.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/hs/mckinley/2008/06/should_students_be_paid_to_ach.html

I find bribing kids to do well in school is both idiotic and a waste of tax dollars. If a child needs to be bribed to do well, they will never do good in life. The sense of accomplishment would be completely diminished.

If students don't care about school, don't make me waste my money on them. They can bag my groceries and make great garbage men for me in 10 years.

Discuss.


Well, can't you kind of see (in a way) why this just MIGHT work?

Look at it as, a teenager high school who has no motivation for doing good in anything. If they were told, "If you can bring your grades up one letter, we will give you ____" (money, or and object?)

Bringing up the fact, what if, instead of MONEY they gave out items.. like ipods, or video games, tvs.. lol who knows what!

Even though it does kind of seem like a waste of money, I personally think the idea isn't personally a whole waste. It really could give people motivation.

Oh, and as for this not helping the child in life. Say when they get a job, isn't your PAY CHECK an insitive for working longer hours and more days?

I'm just sayin...

PixieDust

[Elentari]

Well, can't you kind of see (in a way) why this just MIGHT work?

I think the real question isn't whether or not it WORKS but should it be even an OPTION.

Look at it as, a teenager high school who has no motivation for doing good in anything. If they were told, "If you can bring your grades up one letter, we will give you ____" (money, or and object?)

As a teacher I am all for rewarding progress with more than the satisfaction of a grade, but giving a child $40 for passing a test? That's a bit much.

Bringing up the fact, what if, instead of MONEY they gave out items.. like ipods, or video games, tvs.. lol who knows what!

Either way SOMEBODY is shelling out $$$...and the advantage would still lean to the students who naturally do well, compared to those who need more help. And, if the reward was only given to the strugglers, the kids who do well for the sake of would continue (maybe) to do well for an A report card while another kid is getting an ipod because he "needs a little more help". Most high schoolers I know would NOT appreciate that. Equality just doesn't work, no matter what scenario you look at.

Even though it does kind of seem like a waste of money, I personally think the idea isn't personally a whole waste. It really could give people motivation.

Motivation and reward is not a waste. Giving money is not a "waste" per se, but it's not very beneficial to the kids in the long run.

Oh, and as for this not helping the child in life. Say when they get a job, isn't your PAY CHECK an insitive for working longer hours and more days?

While school can be a student's "full time job", and that is an argument I am sure the school systems paying students have made, the analogy is shaky at best. There are rules/laws about children attending school. No such law exists for a job, except the unwritten one "don't show up, don't bother coming back". While a pay check is an incentive for working, so is paying the bills. Hmm? If we reward children for good test scores and grades, why don't the schools begin having the children pay for bad ones or unexcused absence? For example, each child would have a "bank account" at the school. Good grades/attendance adds credit to the account, bad grades and absense (exception of sick notes) is a debit. At the end of the year, they get a check cut for each kid with their final total.

:rolleyes:

[PixieDust]

I think the real question isn't whether or not it WORKS but should it be even an OPTION.

Well should it be an option? Say that isn't really a question but that it IS going to happen. That was the way I was looking at it. IF it does happen, then its always a possibility to look at it from both sides. A good thing and a bad thing.

As a teacher I am all for rewarding progress with more than the satisfaction of a grade, but giving a child $40 for passing a test? That's a bit much.

Well maybe it doesn't have to be that much money.. but an inisitive in itself I really don't think is such a bad idea. Getting a good grade is not really that much satisfaction. I mean yeah the whole "job well done" thing is always there, and "hard work pays off," but some kids always get GREAT grades, so its nothing new to them. And usually the kids that don't get good grades, don't really have any reason to. I would say to give them a reason. I see you kind of agree with that part.... .

Either way SOMEBODY is shelling out $$$...and the advantage would still lean to the students who naturally do well, compared to those who need more help. And, if the reward was only given to the strugglers, the kids who do well for the sake of would continue (maybe) to do well for an A report card while another kid is getting an ipod because he "needs a little more help". Most high schoolers I know would NOT appreciate that. Equality just doesn't work, no matter what scenario you look at.

Yeah money is always going to be a problem. If you look at it as that there is thousands of tax dollars being wasted ANYWAY though, this might not seem so bad compared to what else they are wasting it on. And I never said the rewards SHOULD only be given to the strugglers. I think that both people who get good grades easily and kids that have trouble should both be rewarded. Getting a good grade does get old after a while, and the hours you spend preparing do get old after a while too. And... I personally think that would be fair. Good grades = reward.

Motivation and reward is not a waste. Giving money is not a "waste" per se, but it's not very beneficial to the kids in the long run.[/QUOTES]

I don't think that its not beneficial. I mean there is a point where you look at it as... well what happens if the kid cheated? Or... it was an easy test, or it was naturally easy for them. Then it could not be beneficial. But if you look at it as... Working hard, and spending time to do well equals reward. That is not a bad trait to have.

[QUOTE]While school can be a student's "full time job", and that is an argument I am sure the school systems paying students have made, the analogy is shaky at best. There are rules/laws about children attending school. No such law exists for a job, except the unwritten one "don't show up, don't bother coming back". While a pay check is an incentive for working, so is paying the bills. Hmm? If we reward children for good test scores and grades, why don't the schools begin having the children pay for bad ones or unexcused absence? For example, each child would have a "bank account" at the school. Good grades/attendance adds credit to the account, bad grades and absense (exception of sick notes) is a debit. At the end of the year, they get a check cut for each kid with their final total.

:rolleyes:

... Well yes. This is why personally I think items, and not money would be a better reward. But if you want to say money, then you can look at the "laws" only applying until your 16 and you can drop out. And since high school.. you are 16 by the time you are in 10th grade... that you don't really have to go to school anymore unless your parents are forcing you, or you WANT to. Yeah paying bills, pay checks. School... your pay checks are getting money for good grades.. and paying the bills... could be something that is partly a necessity but if you don't pay it.. thats your fault. Like buying gas for your car, or car payments. Ok so your parents might pay for them.. well adults do have help from their parents at times too. And.. as for paying the school? They do that already with tuition if they are in a private school... lol Seriously though.. you don't have to pay if you call off work do you? Your boss is mad.. and it hurts you. School, your teachers aren't usually happy and it hurts you. In a way school is a lot like a job...

PixieDust

[fishoutofwater]

Well, I hear good arguments both ways. I agree that It is similar to getting paid for work at a real job, although it is an imperfect analogy since the student is getting "paid" with knowledge.
The problem is (in my really unknowing opinion) that the government wants to reward hardworking students, and grades are the simplest way to judge that. Simplest, but not the most accurate. Usually, only a few people in a student's life truly know that a kid is working hard. To reward the really hardworking, dedicated people, the government would have to do intense research into a person's life to know the facts. Grades are a quick way to sort out the ones that are most likely to need/use the money for college.
It would be nice if the dedicated students could get rewarded for their hard work, but it would probably cost more to find the best students that way, and less money would be available to actually help people. One solution would be to give teacher-suggested scholarships, but many things could affect a teacher's opinion of a student.
Conclusion: The giving of governmetn money to students based solely on grades is an imperfect plan, but the easiest one.

PS. It's a parent's choice to give money to their kids, though I do think they should be careful not to give easy money! :)

[Elendil]

I'd love to get a reward for getting A's. I'd be rich! :p LOL!
But I think it would only be fair if you have to pay money back if you get a 'C' or 'D'.
That's a good idea actually....:p "Hey dad..."

[Lord of Light]

I am quite certain many students out there wouldn't pay the money back if they did...but on the other hand, most of them would still cheat anyway. For example, yesterday when I went to take the Compass test, I heard one of the students there say he had cheated on the TAKS test. I have no clue how he did, but he didn't even go into that, he just said he cheated. Another one also said he had tried getting a teacher to give him the answer to a question. Basically, what is happening is students are getting too lazy to do school work.

[bruiser]

Or... it was an easy test, or it was naturally easy for them.

In that case I would never get paied for good grades. School tests are naturally easy to me. If you don't give kids who are intellectually gifted money because the test was too easy for them, but you give money to the other kids who aren't so gifted. That's wrong.

Like with me for example. I retain information really well and can normally tell you what the answer is and not have to think so much about it. [I am not boasting.] So because I am able to retain info and pass a test easily with flying colors you are not going to pay me? But you would pay the kid who is having trouble with passing anything and doesn't study at all, that on this said test made a high C.?

I don't agree with paying students for getting good grades. You say that there is nothing that is pushing them to do well... well get them to think about their future. If they don't get good grades now they'll be working under some jerk, but if they do get good grades then they can be the jerk that everyone works under.

[Elentari]

I don't agree with paying students for getting good grades. You say that there is nothing that is pushing them to do well... well get them to think about their future. If they don't get good grades now they'll be working under some jerk, but if they do get good grades then they can be the jerk that everyone works under.

Excellently worded! :D

[bruiser]

Thanks. I had a teacher tell me something like what I said earlier after some insane conflicts at school. He said that I would be 'that jerk' that everyone works under. He also gave me a hug and told me that he was proud of me. He had to be one of my favorite teachers. haha.

[Kells]

Well, I hear good arguments both ways. I agree that It is similar to getting paid for work at a real job, although it is an imperfect analogy since the student is getting "paid" with knowledge.


You brought up a great point- shouldn't an education be seen as the reward? I am not sure how, but I think students need to be taught to recognize what an opportunity they have in being able to go to school and to work to keep learning even when there isn't an A on the line.

[bruiser]

^ Couldn't of said it any better myself. :]

[Elendil]

*sigh* I got my report today....:rolleyes:
I did good at my good subject & bad at my bad one. *sigh*

[bruiser]

*sigh* I got my report today....:rolleyes:
I did good at my good subject & bad at my bad one. *sigh*

What were the two subjects?

[Catherine]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/nyregion/05incentive.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/hs/mckinley/2008/06/should_students_be_paid_to_ach.html

I find bribing kids to do well in school is both idiotic and a waste of tax dollars. If a child needs to be bribed to do well, they will never do good in life. The sense of accomplishment would be completely diminished.

If students don't care about school, don't make me waste my money on them. They can bag my groceries and make great garbage men for me in 10 years.

Discuss.

Me and my friends joke about how we should get paid, after all it is work, but in all seriousness, paying students to do well in school is absolutely ridiculous. The money shouldn't be wasted. If they don't want to chose to do well on their own, it's their own problem.

[PixieDust]

In that case I would never get paied for good grades. School tests are naturally easy to me. If you don't give kids who are intellectually gifted money because the test was too easy for them, but you give money to the other kids who aren't so gifted. That's wrong.

Like with me for example. I retain information really well and can normally tell you what the answer is and not have to think so much about it. [I am not boasting.] So because I am able to retain info and pass a test easily with flying colors you are not going to pay me? But you would pay the kid who is having trouble with passing anything and doesn't study at all, that on this said test made a high C.?

I don't agree with paying students for getting good grades. You say that there is nothing that is pushing them to do well... well get them to think about their future. If they don't get good grades now they'll be working under some jerk, but if they do get good grades then they can be the jerk that everyone works under.

Yeah.. in the end there really is no "fair" way to make the standard of who would get money and who wouldn't. But.. it is possible to just base it on grades. Which I'm not saying is fair, but possible.

I never said I agree, I was just sayin' that its good to look at it from all sides.. and since no one was takin' that side I did :) lol. Seriously though, for some kids.. position isn't an insitive. Or good grades for that matter. Maybe they feel like they messed up their freshman year so its all over from there. I know a LOT of my friends are like that. And they don't understand that yeah, you mess up freshman year it hurts you, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't even try your other 3!!! Gosh, some people just don't see things..

Btw, I have to say I LOVE your Jacob stuff!

PixieDust