Revelation Paralleled with The Last Battle.

[Sir Godfrey]

I've been reading Revelation for nearly a week now. Last night I was reading Chapter 6:13. It say after the Lamb broke open the sixth seal that the Sun became dark as cloth and the moon became red as blood. It als says the stars fell fro mthe sky. When I read this passage I envisioned the chapter before the last chapter of the Last Battle when Aslan calls for the End of Narnia. I remember the sun blackness and that the stars fall. I also remember Father Time awakening and the slumbering dragons of Underland awaking and stetting fire the lands. What I'm trying to convey is there is an obvious parallel between the two. That C.S. Lewis wrote the end of his beloved story like that of End or Apcolaypse of the Bible. I know I'm not the only one to probabley notice this, but I thought it was something intresting to talk about. What other Revelation like parallels to do you see in The Last Battle?

Note: I'm merely trying to point out that The Last Battle has many similarities to Revelation in the Bible. I am not saying it is a direct copy.

[Hwin]

There comes a false Christ who decieves everone into thinking that he is God. That's always been the main one for me. Also, Narnia is re-created into a perfect land, just as God will bring down the new Jerusalem and re-create this world.

[Copperfox]

The Antichrist will have a superhuman ability to deceive all who are in any degree willing to be deceived--which, sadly, means most people. "The Last Battle" reflects this, in the way the bad guys were able to come up with a cover story even when Tirian had custody of Puzzle and thought he could finally explode the whole "Tashlan" deception.

The evil Dwarfs who were "for the Dwarfs" also represent a very probable feature of the End Times. When the Antichrist comes, I believe that there will be some people who are against him for the wrong reasons--not because they are on the side of Jesus, but because they have their own preferred falsehoods which compete with the particular line of falsehoods marketed by the Antichrist. Remember that there is only one true Savior, but plenty of diverse ways for people to go wrong. The Antichrist will privately laugh at his "rivals in falsehood," because they're still going to the same H-ll.

[Sir Godfrey]

You both make very exellent points. Both of those parallel to Revelation.

What did you think of Tash? His role to play in the Last Battle? Doesi t parallel with anything in the Bible? We know he is a demon and the supposed god the Calormen people worship. But is he symbol that parallels with anything in Revelation?

[Copperfox]

Simple enough: Satan!

[Sir Godfrey]

Simple enough: Satan!

Great parallel, afterall there isn't really any other character that fits the devil parallel in the LB. I also though Tash some what resembles Allah, because he is a false god, and the people serving him are really serving Hasatan.

So again simply put: Satan.

[KathrynJanewayChakotay]

I also think Shift represents the False prophet which allows The Antichrist to rise. The Tashlan shows how they create there own Gods as well

[Sir Godfrey]

I also think Shift represents the False prophet which allows The Antichrist to rise. The Tashlan shows how they create there own Gods as well

Great point Mary. :)

[PrinceOfTheWest]

That's what I've always thought, Mary - Shift was the False Prophet and Calormen represented the Power of the World that made war against the saints. Tash would be the satan figure (though that's problematic in Narnia). It's not a strict parallel to Revelation, and we don't know much about how the events of Revelation are going to unfold in actual history, but it captures the spirit.

One thing I found interesting: Lewis had Puzzle, the image by which the people were deceived, be an innocent who was used by, and eventually victimized by, the evil forces! If any figure would be the Antichrist, it would be Puzzle! Yet he is redeemed in the end, and in fact had no real complicity in the scheming. Eustace hit it on the head, though: by being fearful and allowing himself to be pushed around when he knew better, Puzzle bore some responsibility for what happened.

[Sir Godfrey]

Interesting observation PrinceoftheWest. I agree with your statment about Puzzle, I however must stress he is in no way an exact parallel to the anti-christ for as Aslan forgives him in the end, while in Revelation The LORD throws Satan, the Anti-Christ and the Beast into the enternal pit. But then again no character is an exact parallel, Puzzle is the obvious symbol of the Anti-Christ because be pretends to be Aslan, even if he knew in his heart that it was wrong.

[Hwin]

Great points, everyone! Though, reading the story, I've always pictures Shift to be the real Anti-christ and he just took advantage of Puzzle to pull it off. But I love how in the end Aslan forgives Puzzle! It just goes to show how no matter what we've done, He will always forgive us!

[Sir Godfrey]

You make another great point, Shift does play more of true role of the anti-christ, while puzzle takes on the appearance or becomes the symbol. Prehapes Shift is the anti-christ, Puzzle the Beast, and Tash as Satan.

[Hwin]

Very true.

[Sir Godfrey]

I've always thought that Emperor-Beyond-Eastern-Sea was symbolic Jehovah, Aslan obviously symbolic of Christ and The Deep Magic symbolic of the Holy Spirit. To me C.S. Lewis put the Trinity in the CON, so why wouldn't he put the unholy trinity in the Last Battle? Afterall Lewis has put Biblical allgories and symbolism through all of the Chronicles of Narnia books.

[Hwin]

I didn't think of it that way! I know he put the trinity in there, but I never thought of the anti-christ/false prophet/Satan thing!

[KathrynJanewayChakotay]

I think that is neat observation to i think the Last Battle next to lww is more of a statement to Cs Lewis Faith then the rest of them even though pc has some good ones to i have been reading Inside Prince Caspian on and off and the author makes some good points in pc that is allegorical too.

[Copperfox]

No one can read the end of TLB with a speck of intellectual honesty and keep on denying that Aslan IS Jesus.

[Sir Godfrey]

I totally agree Copperfox, you have to be blind and foolish to not believe Aslan represents Christ in the Chronicles of Narnia.

[Hwin]

I know! I've talked to people before who were shocked to find out that CON was a Christian series!

[Sir Godfrey]

Prehapes I used foolish carelessly, how about ignorant. :)

[Copperfox]

It's only foolish if they are presented with clear proof that Aslan (in the sense I've explained) IS Jesus, and then they stubbornly DON'T WANT it to be so.

Even then, as I said once in an essay, there is a "not-do-evil" motivation for people to resist Aslan being Jesus, BESIDES the blasphemy concern I posted about here. Non-Christians may feel that Aslan being Incarnate God makes Him less heroic. If He is omnipotent and so cannot ever be really defeated no matter what, it seems that He is not bravely taking risks. Actually, they feel the same way about Jesus AS Jesus: that if He was God and so KNEW He would be resurrected, His facing the Cross was less heroic.

Confronting this objection to Aslan, which is really an objection to the gospel itself, I try to explain that the real sacrifice of Jesus, reflected in His alternate identity as Aslan, still is heroic, because HE DIDN'T HAVE TO go through with it. "He could have called ten thousand angels // To destroy the world and set Him free..." Many human acts of self-sacrifice are done upon impulse--a virtuous impulse, yet still one that leaves no time to reconsider. But Jesus had literally all of Eternity Past to see His atoning death coming closer, and closer, and closer, and closer; so He had to maintain His courageous resolve ALL THROUGH His earthly life.

[Sir Godfrey]

It's only foolish if they are presented with clear proof that Aslan (in the sense I've explained) IS Jesus, and then they stubbornly DON'T WANT it to be so.

Even then, as I said once in an essay, there is a "not-do-evil" motivation for people to resist Aslan being Jesus, BESIDES the blasphemy concern I posted about here. Non-Christians may feel that Aslan being Incarnate God makes Him less heroic. If He is omnipotent and so cannot ever be really defeated no matter what, it seems that He is not bravely taking risks. Actually, they feel the same way about Jesus AS Jesus: that if He was God and so KNEW He would be resurrected, His facing the Cross was less heroic.

Confronting this objection to Aslan, which is really an objection to the gospel itself, I try to explain that the real sacrifice of Jesus, reflected in His alternate identity as Aslan, still is heroic, because HE DIDN'T HAVE TO go through with it. "He could have called ten thousand angels // To destroy the world and set Him free..." Many human acts of self-sacrifice are done upon impulse--a virtuous impulse, yet still one that leaves no time to reconsider. But Jesus had literally all of Eternity Past to see His atoning death coming closer, and closer, and closer, and closer; so He had to maintain His courageous resolve ALL THROUGH His earthly life.

That is a powerful way of looking at it and I agree with you. What also bothers me is when people who find wrong kind of symbolism in Narnia. Some have stated that in the LB when Susan is mentioned that she likes waring lipstick, that that was a symbol that she was sexually active. I grow sick when I read things like this, because I know C.S. Lewis never ment for it to be interpruted that way.

[inkspot]

I like Lewis' depiction of Revelation because it is quite clear and simple -- whereas the Book of Revelation in the Bible is full of symbolism and poetry which cannot be reduced to a simple story such as TLB. I find the timelines and charts and 7 years of this and that which some folks bring to the "end times" to be sort of simple and straight when juxtaposed with the amazing imagery and deep symbolism of Revelation -- but picking out some parts and creating a simple story as Lewis did was genius.

[Sir Godfrey]

Revelation is indeed complex in it's powerful symbolism and future fortellings.

[whitelion_bella]

That is a powerful way of looking at it and I agree with you. What also bothers me is when people who find wrong kind of symbolism in Narnia. Some have stated that in the LB when Susan is mentioned that she likes waring lipstick, that that was a symbol that she was sexually active. I grow sick when I read things like this, because I know C.S. Lewis never ment for it to be interpruted that way.

i also find that 'susan's fate misinterpreted' disturbing. it is clear that those people who critically criticized lewis just because of susan cannot extract the deeper meanings of "she likes nothing nowadays except nylons...". they think that lewis is sexist or something. :mad:

all right back to the topic. the part when the creatures went through the stable door, some creatures looked at aslan and loved him went inside the stable, to aslan's right, while some creatures looked upon aslan with hatred went to the other way, to aslan's left and ceased to be talking animals. it is similar to the part when Jesus (or is it God?) will call upon his followers, the 'sheeps', to come with him to eternity and those who are against him, the 'goats', will not come with him. i'm not sure if this are the exact words or if it is in revelation, but it is something like that. :confused:

[Sir Godfrey]

I've heard that before, however I don't think It's in Revelation. Although there is prophecy/fotelling of the last days not only in the Book of Revelation but also in the books of Daniel, Isaiah, Zacheriah, Exekial, Matthew 24, Joel 3 and etc. It's very likely you are quoting from one of them.

[Copperfox]

The sheep-and-goats passage is in Matthew, in or near Chapter 24.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

It's in Matthew 25 (http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew25.htm):31-46.

[Sir Godfrey]

Thanks PrinceoftheWest for looknig it up for us. :)

[Sven-El]

I've always thought that Emperor-Beyond-Eastern-Sea was symbolic Jehovah, Aslan obviously symbolic of Christ and The Deep Magic symbolic of the Holy Spirit. To me C.S. Lewis put the Trinity in the CON, so why wouldn't he put the unholy trinity in the Last Battle? Afterall Lewis has put Biblical allgories and symbolism through all of the Chronicles of Narnia books.

Actually it would probably be the Deeper Magic for the Holy Spirit. The Deep Magic would be more of the Old Tetstament Law ( a traitor belongs to the witch...)
Actually I've never noticed an explicit parallel to the HS. hmm, live nad learn!
Any rate the unholy trinity could be, Tash, Shift and then Ginger the cat ( who helps promote the lies of Tash).

And if you think about it it would work . Shift claims to be a human, and as well all know only Son fo Adam or a daughter of Eve ( a human) can rule over Narnia. The Antichrist would claim to be CHrist, the only one who could rule over Earth. An ape and a human may both be of the same family fo animals but they arent' the same species.

Aslan is a lion- Ginger is a cat again a cat and a Lion are the same family ( felinus) but not the same Genus or species ( Panthera Leo for the Lion and Felis Catus). Only a Lion can free Narnia.

OK, I'm pretty much basing these ideas of Platonic forms, but Lewis did have several such ideas weaved into his stories. Perahps to form his unholy trinity he used the lower forms of those who would rule Narnia, Aslan the Lion and the humans.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

The Holy Spirit can be found in the Chronicles: Aslan's Breath. Notice how His Breath has extraordinary powers? It turns stone into living flesh, imparts power and strength, and is a gift to those who receive it.

[Sven-El]

Thanks! It's funny I've read it so many times I missed that connection. That's the true beauty of the stoires. You can read them again and again and there will always be bits and pieces you'll pick up along the way that you never saw before.

[Sir Godfrey]

Just like the Bible, you can read the same verse or book over and over and each time you find another piece that speaks to you in your life or that jumps out to you. :)

[Sven-El]

It's kind of like with Jesus's parabels. I always loved hearing thsoe stories He told when I was little even though I didn't get the message of them early on. You may not get the point at first because you're so busy hearing one great story from a fine storyteller to notice what he may be trying to say. To bad so few writers now a days are to focused on agendas and trying to hit you over the head with their points to do what Lewis ( and Tolkien too) clearly learned from the Master Himself.

[MJDisneyDork]

when i was younger this used to be my least favorite book..but now it's my favorite. before, it just seemed dark and sad to me...but .. really... the book is pure power!! it makes such an extreme statement. you read all the books and then it ends with THE end.....it shows how how you can live your life and make your choices...but in the end it all comes down to the final goal. susan wouldn't make it back to narnia, Susan had just lost her WHOLE ENTIRE FAMILY in one day...because of her pride, he appearance and such...she won't make it back to narnia..however, if she were there with her family..she would stil be with them in narnia...all the others, the narnians, everyone...they all made their decission...they all faced God's/Aslans wrath.

i don't know what they are going to do with the movie since they are trying to take the christian theme from the movies now (from what i read..and seems appearant from watching PC) but this book is huge. it has so much power. ahh i'm getting excited just talking about it! lol

[inkspot]

I know we all get to decide what we think Susan's fate would have been, but in one of his letters t a young fan, Lewis indicated he thought she would, indeed, return to Narnia, or to Aslan's country as it were.

[MJDisneyDork]

ah. well that would be cool..but materialism is a big deal to God...well..since the rest of her life is left open to the imaginator..i will pretend that she REPENTS after hearing about the death of her family and starts focusing more on finding Aslan in her world. :D...anywho...i jsut hope the movie for this stays real darn close .. because it's an important one :D

[Lady of the Lion's Mane]

The Holy Spirit can be found in the Chronicles: Aslan's Breath. Notice how His Breath has extraordinary powers? It turns stone into living flesh, imparts power and strength, and is a gift to those who receive it.


I caught on to that when first I really read the series a few years ago.I LOVED it. It was such comforting imagery to me, and I positively longed for Aslan to breathe on me. I recall weeping at the thought of it.

Also, when I was confirmed in March, I had a lovely sense of God/Aslan breathing on me.

[Lady of the Lion's Mane]

And on the whole Susan returning or not:

Once a King or Queen of Narnia, always a King or Queen of Narnia.

Had CS Lewis said to the inquirer that she did not return "to her senses" as it were, and to Narnia, he would have been contradicting himself.

Edmund was redeemed and he repented and reformed. So also, with Susan.

[Sir Godfrey]

I caught on to that when first I really read the series a few years ago.I LOVED it. It was such comforting imagery to me, and I positively longed for Aslan to breathe on me. I recall weeping at the thought of it.

Also, when I was confirmed in March, I had a lovely sense of God/Aslan breathing on me.

It makes one wonder if once Susan dies if she will get to go to True Narnia? Provided of course she began to believe again in Narnia and Aslan.

[inkspot]

I think she will.
:)

[onlymystory]

plus, I think we always write Susan off because Narnia has ended but we forget that England is still alive and kicking. I like to think that Susan came back but by not knowing its a harsh reminder of needing to stay faithful.

I'm just going to throw something out there and see what you think now...but what if The Last Battle isn't supposed to have a single Anti-Christ at all? After all, Shift was lying but wasn't the one actually pretending to be Aslan. Puzzle had no ulterior motive and was really too stupid to figure it out. And Tash shows up rather late in the story to be the Anti-Christ the entire time. I wonder if perhaps Lewis was more pointing out that if we allow anything to take Aslan (for the Narnians) / Christ (for us)'s place in our lives, we pull ourselves away from heaven. I'm not saying that if once in a while we pick a baseball game over church kind of thing but more in the way the Narnian animals so readily gave up their faith in the true Aslan for a fake imitation. How many times do we give up truth for cheap imitations? I hope that made sense

[Lady of the Lion's Mane]

^interesting! I have always looked at Shift as a false prophet, one who claims to know God (Aslan) and preaches falsehoods about Him. One I thing, however, that I disagree with, is that if people have heard nothing but lies about Jesus, etc...how can they be expected to turn to Him in love and faith? (The animals/creatures who looked on Real Aslan in so-called 'hatred' and were banished from Him.) They cannot be blamed for something that is not entirely their fault. (Now, in the case of one of the saddest scenes in the book, when the dwarves are so hurt by the fake Aslan that they refuse to see the goodness of the real Aslan...oh, it's just so sad. And it's not entirely their fault!!!) This is one reason I think so many turn from Christianity or never join it to begin with--all they hear are "fire and brimstone," "hell and damnation," "beware the wrath of God," God is an angry God" and all manner of similar rubbish....basically all they hear are untruths. They hear nothing of the Infinite Love and Mercy of our Saviour. Like the poor animals and other Narnians who began to not believe in or 'hate' Aslan, all because of the workings of a false prophet, a liar, one who would lead them away from Him.

I don't think the Narnians just "readily" or easily gave up their faith in Aslan. They felt wholly betrayed and used, abused, etc. Only such extreme cases such as that truly cause people to turn from their faith, and in such cases they cannot be held fully accountable. They were cruelly mislead and lied to. It is heartbreaking.

[onlymystory]

I would agree that they didn't just throw away their faith in Aslan but I do think they gave in too quickly. The stories of Aslan should show how he acts and that this new behavior didn't fit His character. Besides, Jesus warns us to be wary of false teachers who will lead us astray by sounding similar. So I think they can be held accountable.
After all, the calormene boy (whose name I'm going blank on) never believed in Aslan but his faith in Tash was a faith that was more for Aslan as well as he never wavered from his faith. He recognized immediately that Puzzle wasn't Tash. Even before he saw him, he said the idea that Tash and Aslan were one seemed completely wrong.