The Telmarines

[Prodigious1One]

Do you think that their former land on Earth was Australia? That would fit very well with the connection to England.

What do you think? In the book, it says that the island is in the Pacific Ocean. Oz is between it and the Indian Ocean, but that's close enough. Also, to the English, Australia is a world away and that fits well with the conception of this island of the Pacific.

Does anyone believe that Aslan has made sure that the Telmarines will be able to survive in their former land on Earth? I kept on asking myself that question. I imagine that all that they would need is there existing, so no worries, mate. :D

[Red Roses]

wow. it would b cool if its true. im not saying its not

[General Oreius]

It's a good possibility, but I think their homeland is a Pacific island that's of considerable size.

[Son of Adam]

Interesting concept anyway. Hmmm...........

[Crunchine]

i am so confused about them. where do the telmarines live? :confused:

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

they were pirates...

[Crunchine]

someone told me they were from the telmar mountains though:confused:

[LifeMaiden]

It's a good possibility, but I think their homeland is a Pacific island that's of considerable size.

Yes. They were pirates and seafarers who got marooned on that island. Personally I think they lucked out with the doorway to Narnia. I'd rather be in Narnia ( um, although a Pacific Island sure sounds good now in this cold).

[Darth Sparhawk]

yeah, Narnia is best.:)

[Into the Wardrobe]

Yes. They were pirates and seafarers who got marooned on that island. Personally I think they lucked out with the doorway to Narnia. I'd rather be in Narnia ( um, although a Pacific Island sure sounds good now in this cold).

Hear, hear!!! It would be good to be in Narnia right now. I can't wait to see how they're depicted in the movie or if they'll try to flush out their history on earth more clearly. They'd have to take some liberties there...but it will be cool to see.

[Crunchine]

but where did they live in narnia? was it the telmar mountains?:confused:

[General Oreius]

They lived in Telmar. It's a land not shown on the map of Narnia, but it's mentioned in a few places, and there's also a "Pass to Telmar" in Archenland. Other than that, all we know is that it lies west of all of the other countries and was once inhabited by Calormenes who got turned into animals (horses, right?).

[MrBob]

The Telmarines were pirates who sailed the South Seas. The island they came into Telmar from was conqured by them ad they killed the natives except for taking wives. The land is now uninhabited and that is where Aslan is sending them.

When they got to Telmar, it was uninhabited and they made it their home. After a while, the Telmarines invaded Narnia.

I would like to know where in the stories the Pass to Telmar is, Gen. Oreius.

MrBob

[General Oreius]

If you take a look at the map of Narnia and the surrounding lands, you should be able to see the words "Pass to Telmar" on the left side of the map when you look at Archenland. Other than that, the only place I can think of where it would be on a map would be the one at the beginning of The Horse and His Boy.

[kingcaspian]

I'm new here, but I think they could have have come from some island near the Phillipines. If they are depicted as hispanics, and the spanish controlled the Phillipines for some time, couldn't they have Filipinos?

[~Lava~]

For the the pirates that later became the Telmarines: We know that (bookwise) they were Caucasion (VotDT- a pale figure jumping in to save them) in origin, and probably Anglo-Saxon/Celtic because of the fact that there are blondes and red-heads. We also know that they were pirates in the South Sea (also further clarified as the Pacific Ocean later in PC) Depending on the era that they came from, that would mean that they were either compatriots of Sir Francis Drake who used the Pacific Ocean as a hide out when they weren't looting Spanish ships in the Carribean (early 1500's to about the time of the sinking of the Spanish Armada, a little after it though) or they were American/English pirates who were chased out of the Carribean shortly after Blackbeard.

[Narnian47]

I've never thought about that, good question.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Those are good speculations.

For my part, I don't think the Spanish accents and skin tone of the Telmarines in the movie were anything more than an attempt to indicate they were alien to the land. Using black skin tone or Slavic accents could have accomplished the same thing. I think that touch was very effective, but I don't think that the filmmakers were trying to speculate about the origins of the Telmarines in our world.

[QA48]

I'm Spanish so I didn't mind the representation of "us" in Narnia ;) I was quite pleased when I heard the producers were going for a Spanish/Italian feel for the Telemarines, especially Caspian. Though, the accent...meh...At least on behalf of Barnes It didn't come off as "authentic."

[General Oreius]

The filmakers did leave a lot of clues towards the Telmarines day job in our world: the swords, armor, the symbols (predominately the compass) all point towards some type of sea-fearing life. That was all a really cool aspect of the Telmarines in the film.

[Narborg]

No, the evedence from the boo suports a samall, u nimpoertent isaldn in the middle of the Pasific ocean, not a contanent like Australia.

[Catherine]

I think that Australia being the place in our world that Telmarines came from is a very good idea (hmm.....suddenly Australia sounds like a veeeeeery good vacation spot...) and yes i think Aslan would have provided for all the needs of the telmarines who went back in PC.

[BarbarianKing]

I think that Australia being the place in our world that Telmarines came from is a very good idea (hmm.....suddenly Australia sounds like a veeeeeery good vacation spot...) and yes i think Aslan would have provided for all the needs of the telmarines who went back in PC.

Except Australia is waaaay to big for a small group of pirates to go ahead and kill all the natives, except the women they took as wives. So although it is nice (for Australians) to think of , it's just not possible.
Making them look Spanish was just an invention of the moviemakers. I don't mind that change. The Telmarines looked cool in the movie, but Lewis never said they were Spanish.

[~Lava~]

One problem with Australia being the Island that the Telmarines landed on, and went back to. It was discovered in the 1940's. The pirates who were shipwrecked on the Island may have come from the UK via Australia though.

[narniaforlife]

if so, they should have brought some koalas with them.
koalas in narnia = awesome!
sorry that was kid of spam... oh well

[BarbarianKing]

One problem with Australia being the Island that the Telmarines landed on, and went back to. It was discovered in the 1940's. The pirates who were shipwrecked on the Island may have come from the UK via Australia though.

Australia was discovered in the 1940s? Are you sure your history book is Earth history? oh, I know. It's an alternate universe!! Holy!! Lava, who are you? Where do you come from?:D:D

[~Lava~]

Australia was discovered in the 1940s? Are you sure your history book is Earth history? oh, I know. It's an alternate universe!! Holy!! Lava, who are you? Where do you come from?:D:D

Yes, frankly it had been discovered by the 1940's; they even participated in WWII. And that is how that sentence was intended to be read. I suppose writing that or writing it with "well before" instead of "in" would have been better but I was in a hurry when I wrote it. I know that Australia was officially discovered by Europeans in 1606 (and others talked of it before that), I had ancestors that were sent to Australia long before the 1940's when it was still a British penal colony. As for who I am, well I am a learning disabled college student from the US who doesn't always think before she writes.:D

[Knight of the Lion's Song]

I think that there may be a possibility that we are thinking too far North. I am thinking the island is in fact Tasmania. Isolated, small enough for the first explorers to destroy the native population. And there are many great caves and majestic caves in which a portal could have been opened.:D

[BarbarianKing]

Yes, frankly it had been discovered by the 1940's; they even participated in WWII. And that is how that sentence was intended to be read. I suppose writing that or writing it with "well before" instead of "in" would have been better but I was in a hurry when I wrote it. I know that Australia was officially discovered by Europeans in 1606 (and others talked of it before that), I had ancestors that were sent to Australia long before the 1940's when it was still a British penal colony. As for who I am, well I am a learning disabled college student from the US who doesn't always think before she writes.:D
Lava, I knew exactly what you meant and I realized it was a typo. I was just making a joke and you do not have to explain yourself. :)

[~Lava~]

By the Way, Telmar is past the Western Wilds. It says so in HHB during the part that talks about the Hermit's Pond: "or what robbers or wild beasts stirred in the great Western forests between Lantern Waste and Telmar."

[kingcaspian]

It is possible that they were from Tasmania. However, looking at the world atlas beside me in the room I'm in, Tas. looks too big to have been conquered by pirates. Maybe I'm underestimating the number of pirates there were, but a much smaller island in the Phillipine chain makes much more sense.

[MrBob]

After rereading the section that Aslan talks about Caspian's Earth ancestors, we know two things. One that the island is in the tropics or somewhere that palm trees can grow naturally. Two, that the island is, in the 1940s, uninhabited.

The pirates were driven to the island by a storm so it would not have been a place they would have naturally wanted to go probably. A small island (a few square miles) with a few inhabitants, possibly about a village or so, but that which can take on many more people.

MrBob

[Mrs. Pevensie]

I have not read the books *cries in shame*, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me who the Telmarines are and how they have to do with the movies, cuz i don't remember Telmarines being mentioned in LWW?

[~Lava~]

They are not in LWW, I got the impression from the books that the Pevensies really did not have that much interaction with Telmar on their first visit. They seemed confused in PC (the book) about Telmar in general. All we really know about the Telmarines themselves is found in PC, that they were a race of Pirates whose base of opperation was the South Pacific. They were run aground by a storm on a small, probably sparsely inhabited island where they killed the native men and took the women as booty. Six of the pirates had to run for their lives and brought their native wives into a cave on the island that was for them what the wardrobe was for the Pevensies. They ended up in the unpopulated land of Telmar. There they became a cruel people (though for pirates this isn't far to jump). Some time later a famine drove their descendants into Narnia where they conquered the land and set about removing its previous inhabitants and insulating themselves from the backlash that they had to deal with from the woods and the others. We also know that Telmar was West of the Lamp Post from HHB. We know that the island that they landed on was not discovered in the 1940's.

Things that we can assume or extrapolate from that data:
1. Telmar was probably land-locked because pirates would not have abandoned the sea without a good reason (like not having an outlet to the sea).

2. Judging by the description that Lewis gives in the books of the Telmarines and their descendants (also taking into account the history of piracy in the Pacific) the Telmarines of the book were probably Anglo-Saxon/Celtic in origin, coming to the Pacific via America or India or even the Penal Colony on Australia. They speak in a very British way in the book. Also, their actions on the island makes them pirates in the truest sense of the word so it is highly likely that they were not contemporaries of Sir Francis Drake.

3. The people who stayed after Aslan let some of them go back to the island in the Pacific quickly adopted the ways of old Narnia.

[Mrs. Pevensie]

~Lava~: Thank you, very much. That answered all my questions and was exactly what I was looking for. I have a better understanding of PC now...again thank you.

[BarbarianKing]

They are not in LWW, I got the impression from the books that the Pevensies really did not have that much interaction with Telmar on their first visit. They seemed confused in PC (the book) about Telmar in general. All we really know about the Telmarines themselves is found in PC, that they were a race of Pirates whose base of opperation was the South Pacific. They were run aground by a storm on a small, probably sparsely, inhabited island where they killed the native men and took the women as booty. Six of the pirates had to run for their lives and brought their native wives into a cave on the island that was for them what the wardrobe was for the Pevensies. They ended up in the unpopulated land of Telmar. There they became a cruel people (though for pirates this isn't far to jump). Some time later a famine drove their descendants into Narnia where they conquered the land and set about removing its previous inhabitants and insulating themselves from the backlash that they had to deal with from the woods and the others. We also know that Telmar was West of the Lamp Post from HHB. We know that the island that they landed on was not discovered in the 1940's.

Things that we can assume or extrapolate from that data:
1. Telmar was probably land-locked because pirates would not have abandoned the sea without a good reason (like not having an outlet to the sea).

2. Judging by the description that Lewis gives in the books of the Telmarines and their descendants (also taking into account the history of piracy in the Pacific) the Telmarines of the book were probably Anglo-Saxon/Celtic in origin, coming to the Pacific via America or India or even the Penal Colony on Australia. They speak in a very British way in the book. Also, their actions on the island makes them pirates in the truest sense of the word so it is highly likely that they were not contemporaries of Sir Francis Drake.

3. The people who stayed after Aslan let some of them go back to the island in the Pacific quickly adopted the ways old Narnia.

WOW. Lava, that is exactly how I believe it was. Your comments are well supported by the books. Nice. Do you mind if I copy your post? just in case anyone ever asks me about the Telmarines.

[~Lava~]

Nope, I don't mind at all.

[BarbarianKing]

Ok. No problem. It was well done.

[Narborg]

Australia was discovered in the 1940s? Are you sure your history book is Earth history? oh, I know. It's an alternate universe!! Holy!! Lava, who are you? Where do you come from?:D:D

Australia was discoved long before 1940. It was descovered by Able Tasman in the 1600s, then expited later by Cook in the 1700s.

[BarbarianKing]

Nope, I don't mind at all.

Sorry. And thanks. Sometimes I am a little slow.

[cocoskwinklegnome7649]

Do you think that their former land on Earth was Australia? That would fit very well with the connection to England.

What do you think? In the book, it says that the island is in the Pacific Ocean. Oz is between it and the Indian Ocean, but that's close enough. Also, to the English, Australia is a world away and that fits well with the conception of this island of the Pacific.

Does anyone believe that Aslan has made sure that the Telmarines will be able to survive in their former land on Earth? I kept on asking myself that question. I imagine that all that they would need is there existing, so no worries, mate. :D

good idea. but i don't know.

[waterhogboy]

We are only told the island was in the South Sea. This can actually mean any sea south of the Equator so could be the Atlantic, Pacific or Indian Oceans allowing any island in the Southern hemisphere to be the origin. I think people are right to dismiss Australia, but I think even Tasmania is too large considering the comment someone made about killing all the natives.

One thing I would like to know is how the film-makers decided it was 1,300 years later for Narnia - where did they get this from?

[Knight of Narnia]

I would have to look it up to be sure, but I think that the timeline was established during the meeting of the friends of Narnia at the beginning of last battle.

[waterhogboy]

It just says the events of LWW happened over a thousand years before PC.

[Elentari]

One thing I would like to know is how the film-makers decided it was 1,300 years later for Narnia - where did they get this from?

Knight of Narnia, you are probably right, it may be in The Last Battle, however, I am on vacation so I don't have my book copy. :( That's the first place I run when I spot a fascinating question like this!

I believe somehow the 1300 year span was decided by the Narnians (probably Narnian historians, like maybe the centaurs?) who studied that sort of thing. For example, the Narnians would remember what year it was in Narnia when the Kings and Queens went after the White Stag, and--like was demonstrated in the movie--the Narnians may have had an elaborate history recorded of the Golden Age up to the invasion by Telmar. (The book (LWW) suggests Mr. Tumnus recorded quite a bit of the Golden Age.) The only thing to add to that would be how long the Telmarines had ruled Narnia, add the numbers together (Narnian + Telmarine) and you could get a fairly accurate idea of the passage of time.
Example: If Caspian 1 was the king who invaded Narnia all you'd have to do is add the years from that invasion to the "present" time (Caspian X), then add it to the recorded times of the Old Narnians (ie: 1000 years since the Disappearance).

I think the part in the movie that showed this BEST was when the Pevensies first explore Aslan's Howe and Caspian is surprised they don't know what it is. They realize how much time has passed because the carvings and pictures were OLD, but they were OLDER STILL. It was very sobering for them.

[~Lava~]

We are only told the island was in the South Sea. This can actually mean any sea south of the Equator so could be the Atlantic, Pacific or Indian Oceans allowing any island in the Southern hemisphere to be the origin. I think people are right to dismiss Australia, but I think even Tasmania is too large considering the comment someone made about killing all the natives.

One thing I would like to know is how the film-makers decided it was 1,300 years later for Narnia - where did they get this from?

Not meaning to be rude, but first of all: In the two last pages of PC, Lewis says, "for the children seemed to be seeing three things at once. One was the mouth of a cave opening into the glaring green and blue of an island in the Pacific..." In my smaller movie Tie-in edition that quote appears half way down the second-to-last page.

Secondly, I doubt that they sat there and made a timeline during the meeting of the Friends of Narnia during TLB; the book certainly does not support this idea at all. I believe that the film makers used on of the suspicious timelines that are floating around out there to decide upon amount of years that had passed, all the books ever say is that over a thousand years have passed. Additionally, the quote from the movie that suggests that the Telmarines came in within a couple of centuries of the Pevensies leaving is completely unfounded in terms of the book; for that to have happened each one of the ten King Caspian's would have had to live at least 100 years each. We know for a fact that Caspian the 9th did not. We also know that Caspian the 10th had not had a chance to yet (nor did he ever live that long because he died in the Silver Chair). I would argue that the Narnians were able to shift for themselves for at least 500 to 600 years after the Pevensies left

[waterhogboy]

Not meaning to be rude, but first of all: In the two last pages of PC, Lewis says, "for the children seemed to be seeing three things at once. One was the mouth of a cave opening into the glaring green and blue of an island in the Pacific..." In my smaller movie Tie-in edition that quote appears half way down the second-to-last page.

Secondly, I doubt that they sat there and made a timeline during the meeting of the Friends of Narnia during TLB; the book certainly does not support this idea at all. I believe that the film makers used on of the suspicious timelines that are floating around out there to decide upon amount of years that had passed, all the books ever say is that over a thousand years have passed. Additionally, the quote from the movie that suggests that the Telmarines came in within a couple of centuries of the Pevensies leaving is completely unfounded in terms of the book; for that to have happened each one of the ten King Caspian's would have had to live at least 100 years each. We know for a fact that Caspian the 9th did not. We also know that Caspian the 10th had not had a chance to yet (nor did he ever live that long because he died in the Silver Chair). I would argue that the Narnians were able to shift for themselves for at least 500 to 600 years after the Pevensies left

Good spottage with the Pacific quote - I missed that totally (though I still dismiss Tasmania).

I thought along the same lines as you for a while about the ten Caspians thing, but then that's us assuming there was an unbroken line of Caspians from Caspian I and there's a chance that might not have been the case. If there wass, then the movie's wrong, if not, it's possible...

[MrBob]

The Telmarines lived many, generations in Telmar before they amassed enough that could have conquered Narnia. Aslan did not give a reason why Narnia was in disorder. Had it been the Pevensies leaving, I doubt he would have stated that it was a long story. He would already know that story so it was much later than when the Pevensies left.

We do know that the Telmarine castle was built four generations ago (for Caspian X). No other castle is mentioned before that so either they lived in Cair Paravel (which is highly doubtful since all of the Pevensies' treasures were left in the same place where they last left it), the lived in Jadis' castle, which may have been in ruins already seeing how it would have been out of use, or they did not have any castle until Caspian VI.

I can't see that they would not have had a castle for too long. I am of the Caspian-only lineage of kings until Miraz giving us about 300-500 years of Telmarine rule.

MrBob

[Elentari]

Sounds good. I agree Lava--there is some kind of book with a timeline floating around. I've seen it at Barnes & Noble and often wondered where they got the in between stuff. :confused: Thanks also for the book information...it can be so hard to discuss the book without someone looking something up for those of us who didn't bring our book on vacation! :eek:

And I also agree with Mr. Bob about the continuous lineage of Caspian 1 to Caspian X. It certainly didn't sound like the Telmarines had been there for VERY long (by Narnian standards anyway).

[~Lava~]

I, too, agree with Mr. Bob with regards the Telmarines.

I want to point out that if Lewis had not made the clarification at the end of PC about the "South Sea" being the Pacific, any one who has read the older adventure stories would have automatically decided it was so because "the South Sea" has been a nickname for the Pacific since it was first discovered by Europeans. Any island that was discovered before 1943 in the Pacific can immediately be disregarded so, yes, Tazmania is out of the question.