How did you feel after reading Last Battle?

[CyberCat]

I just finished reading Horse, Treader, Chair, and Last Battle. Oh my, Aslan! It all connects!

At first I was all :D when Jill and Eustace fought for Narnia

then I was all like.... :confused: where are Peter, Lucy, Edmund, Susan, and the rest?

At the end of the book was I was..... :eek: they all died?!?! What?!?! Jill, Eustace, Penvensies dead?! As in, cofffins, bodies....dead?! Train wreck... Susan must claim thier bodies... :(

As a born again Christian myself, I drank in all the symbolism, and was very happy I can meet Aslan/Jesus one day. I felt utter sympathy for Susan- her siblings, and cousin dead. Her friends, aka Digory, Polly, Jill. It was obvious she talked to them all, from Peter and other's comments when they were behind the door

I wonder, how Susan will deal with the deaths of her family, and I hope she will find Aslan again one day..

Goodbye, King Peter, Queen Lucy, King Edmund, Queen Jill, King Eustace. You served Narnia, and Aslan well. The battles have been won, sacrifices have been made, the pain and sadness is gone. Now, you may all finally rest

[Aravis Kenobi]

I cried. Mostly because it was the last book in the series.

[heavenangel2290]

omg! just reading this makes me sad and cry :-( but wow i haven't read those books yet i only read the lion the witch and the wardrobe and now i'm reading the magician's nephew (not in order because i started reading it for a school assignment) but wow the ending is sad! but thank you for sharing :-)

Karla

[Lady Larien]

i felt strange.. i don't really know how to explain it.. it was an unexplainable feeling

[Son of Adam]

I, at first, wanted to be sad, but then I realized that all of them were with God, the different dimensions verged with one another. The joy that they all must have felt at finally being in their true 'home'. No more pain, no more suffering, no more, sickness, disease and death. Only joy and happiness for all eternity.

[Malacandra]

Rest? Not at all - they have only just begun to grow and mature into creatures that angels themselves will delight to prostrate themselves before. (A tough sentence to read, I admit, but the grammar's all in order.) All that was worth preserving in the old Narnia and the old Earth, and unnumbered worlds besides, is theirs to enjoy and explore for all eternity, in which, as the author says, each tale told is better than the one before.

[Copperfox]

Well, it would be "rest" in the sense of being rid of horrid burdens and pains--as when one takes an athletic vacation. My Mary, rid of her burden of cancer, now rejoices in whatever activities exist in Heaven.

[CyberCat]

Awww, I didn't mean to make everyone sad...

[fishoutofwater]

I was pretty much horrified the first time I read it. I didn't like the Last Battle for a long time until I read it again. Now it seems deeper adn more meaningful. I like it.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

It's a shocker, to be sure. I remember the first few times I read it, and I kept wondering why it wasn't like the other Narnia books - you know, things would get worse and challenges would arise, but with Aslan's help the children and Narnians would always triumph. But the ending makes it clear - they did triumph, completely and totally, and never had to leave Narnia again!

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

i don't quite remember.... because of the spoilers and all.... but it was a shocker, potw said it... and i absolutly loved the very last quote, of the very last book. it's one of my favorite quotes. con has the best quotes, they're sos trong...*off topicness*

[Samwise Gamgee]

I felt sad and mad at the appe. I loved Tirain and Jewel and I felt such honer and bravery in that book. I love it.

[everlasting_love]

I felt kinda sad,and then happy.

[SusanoftheSouthernSun]

I was mixed. Someone told me the ending so I was ready. It was a good ending, but I as so upset about Susan because I believe she never truly forgot. I feels he was just hurt that she and Peter were told they could never come back.

[Sain]

Since I read all 7 Chronicles of Narnia within a relatively small amount of time, I was happy to take a break from reading.

[~Lava~]

I felt sad and happy the first time I read it. the second time I felt better about it, but it was not until I realized that there was nothing to prevent Susan from coming back around to the truth that I could completely reconcile my feelings about the book. Lewis either on purpose or inadvertently facilitated Susan's change of heart by have Peter die with the rings on his person. By using them, Susan could have gotten to other worlds and met Aslan in one of them.

[Lila]

like crying!!!!

[Copperfox]

I think about Heaven a lot. I thought about Heaven a lot even _before_ I got so old as to be a whole lot closer to arriving. And the ending of "The Last Battle" sent my thoughts of Heaven triumphantly soaring. Besides the very last page, it was moving to see Tirian's reunion with his father.

[Lost Dreamer]

The first time i read it i was actually very dissapointed. It was so unlike most of the other narnia books that by the time i got to the ending i had lost hope for it, and the ending was soured for me.
However, the second time i read it i realized it wasnt as bad as i had originally thought. So i guess i made my peace with it. Its certinally not my favorite book in the series, but its okay. The real ending was a satisfactory one.

[Red Roses]

i was shocked and i didnt really like the ending cuz i wanted 2 know wat happened 2 susan

[Into the Wardrobe]

When I was a little kid I was horrified about Susan and couldn't get past it well.

As I got older and came to know the Lord, the book was different. I was still holding out hope that Susan would change her mind and get over herself, happy for the rest of the Pevensies, Eustace, Jill, Digory, Polly...they got to leave the Shadowlands once and for all. Lucy would finally get to have Aslan tell her that wonderful story again from the Book of Spells (VDT), after all, he promised...and they wouldn't have to deal with evil again. They'd finally get to hear other people's stories rather than just their own. They could hang out with old friends again. The various characters from the different books would have gotten to meet each other and have one big party for the rest of time.

It seems most strange to me. There's a want to be sad because of an ending...but what is left behind is merely a shadow of what was to come for them all and for what we expect in reality. There's no need to be sad but excited and joyful. The one to be sad for is Susan...too bad no one will ever know the end of that character's story...and yet that is a good thing. It leaves hope in the midst of being human.

I love that book so much more as an adult. There's a lot more suspense in it than most of the others. C.S. Lewis did an incredible job on that one! Well, on all of them...but I'm biased.

[Skandalicious]

I was sad when all of them died but I came to realize that ever since they went to Narnia that was the only place they would truly be happy in. I was sad about Susan also but in C.S. Lewis` s biography they wrote that he said Susan still has time to change her ways and perhaps get to Narnia one day. I guess you just have to decide for yourslef if Susan becomes a better person or not.

[Soñador]

The first time I read TLB, the ending surprised me. But now I find it soo appropriate. Now I would say that it would have to be one of my favorite endings.
I was also shocked about Susan. I sat and thought about it for an hour(I was 10 at the time).
I think we would all have Susan return to Narnia. And I'm glad Lewis gave us the opportunity to let our own imagination decide her ending.

[ILOVENARNIA58192]

I almost cried. It was funny cuz my friend Lucy was like " You alright?" It was sooo funny. But the end was sad. :(

[MrBob]

I have to admit it was the stragest feeling with the ending. It was a happily-ever-after ending with a twist. Sad and happy at the same time. I was as confused as Lucy was until she was told by Aslan.

Some questions I had after reading the ending:

The Susan question. How did she deal?
Jill and Eustace fought in Narnia. So were they taken before they died? The others never set foot in Narnia. Were they taken at death?
The Talking beasts of Narnia all came to the door, but were they all dead? alive? They escaped before the destruction of Narnia.

MrBob

[Copperfox]

I believe that Aslan sort of temporarily raised Eustace and Jill back to flesh-and-blood life in Narnia--almost like cloning them from their original bodies which would have died in the train crash with the others. The real mission of Eustace and Jill was not to thwart the Calormene conquest--since Aslan did not choose to stop it, preferring to render the Calormenes' victory meaningless by ending the world and sending most of the invading Calormenes to the bad place--but rather to help create one last opportunity for straying creatures, like the donkey Puzzle, to get right with God/Aslan.

As for the doorway scene, Mr. Lewis WAS a bit ambiguous about what was happening to the Narnian world in its ending. But I would say that any Narnian beings who were still alive at Narnia's last moment (the awakening of Father Time), were transformed to immortality on the spot, and joined the crowd of those who had lived before to arrive at the point of separation.

[KathrynJanewayChakotay]

i thought the ending was fitting for the Chrocnicles it was said though but it made sense after I read it a couple of times and after I got older I undertood it

[inkspot]

It's one of the most obviously Christian books -- the ideas of an antichrist and false prophet from the book of Revelation are clear, but then Puzzle the Donkey (the antichrist figure!) is found in the New Narnia; it's a brilliant twist.

I cried and cried when I first read it, not because of the children's being no longer alive on earth, but because of the tragedy of the Narnians turning on each other -- the dwarves killing the horses and such.

But the book gains more meaning, the older you get, the closer to death yourself, to know that when the children arrived in the New Narnia "the term is ended, and the holidays have begun ..."

[Gwendolyn]

I agree. Yes it is very sad that Susan doesn't get to 'Heaven' at that time with the rest. But that doesn't mean that she never does. When I was little I always felt sad and a little mad about the Susan situation. I would think to myself "Why did she have to change? Why couldn't she just keep believing in the magic?" Now that I'm older I see Susan as representing us in a funny sort of way. We no longer believe in the tooth-fairy or in santa clause. We no long have that innocence that God wants us to have.
I have always thought the ending of TLB was the best ending of all endings. And to think that that description of 'Heaven' is coming from a man's mind! Imagine what the real heaven will be like!! How wonderful.
I just get chills.
"Go further up and further in!"

[Mrs Gil-Galad Took]

I am a bit late when it comes to reading Narnia. Yes, I have seen the cartoon back in 1980 but never read the books until more than one year ago. I thought it was sad Susan wasn't there. It was sad she had choosen the material world. But it was good to read all the other characters were there and even the characters from the past. The thing with the dwarves was sad as well. But as Aslan said, they couldn't change their minds. It was how they felt it would be.
I loved the part when they all met and parents and children where together.
And when they finally realized....this is the real Narnia and now their story began. I love how Lewis had written this.

[Samwise Gamgee]

I was sad and yet very up set at the ape for doing that to Narnia. I love it though because of Tirain and Jewel. They are the third best Narnians I like :D

[Jessie-Simone]

I was surprised and sad that that were really dead all this time.

[Copperfox]

Shift, the treasonous Ape, is closer to reality than most of us think. There are people in places of power, governmental or otherwise, who keep getting ever more cynical about using their position and privileges for NOTHING but their own self-gratification, merely wearing the thinnest mask of pretending to care about the people. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, for example, pretends to be sympathetic to union labor--but she uses non-union labor on property she owns. Al Gore is always ready to scream at "Big Oil"--but his own family has a HUGE investment in Occidental Petroleum. Ted Kennedy says we need alternative energy--but has fought against letting wind-powered generators be installed near where he lives. Yet people keep voting for such hypocrites! If we act like Puzzle the Donkey, just passively accepting what Shift says without examining it, we have ourselves to thank for injustices that follow.

[Gwendolyn]

yeah...we need to use critical thinking.

[MrBob]

Interesting thought about Susan. In VotDT, Susan was the only one of the siblings not to have spent any time with a Narnian or friend of Narnia. Peter went to stay with Prof. Kirke while Lucy and Edmund went to Narnia.

Susan came to the US with her parents because they thought she would get the most out of it. She was already pulling away from Narnia back then.

MrBob

[~dancing with fauns~]

When I first read the last book, I was shocked, and almost cried at the end when I thought that narnia was actually coming to an end, but then felt better when I realized that Narnia wasn't logically gone. It was just going to be new and better! :)
Then, I was of course very surprised to find out that they all died in their world, and you didn't find out till the end of the book. But I really like the way C.S. Lewis continued and ended the narnia books. I want to read them again now. lol.

[LadyAnneOfNarnia]

I was kinda sad but then...look at one of my signature quotes...that cheered me up a bit. :D

[Jezebel707]

I was in complete and utter shock. I mean, how dare they die on me?!?! JK!! I was like,"What was he thinking?" But then I think I got over it!

[inkspot]

I was in complete and utter shock. I mean, how dare they die on me?!?! JK!! I was like,"What was he thinking?" But then I think I got over it!
Welcome to the discussion, Jezebel. I didn't see you post before. I agree with you somewhat, it was shocking that the kids were dead -- but, it was also so exciting to see Aslan's country, and by the end of it, when Aslan explains that school is over and the holidays have begun, and then "wonderful things begant to happen" or whatever Jack says at th very end, I am always wishing I could be there, and see it, it sounds so lovely.

[Tsukiko]

Dunno what I felt. Nothing..really. I dont get emotional really while reading books. The only time I really did get kind of emotional was while I was reading Eragon at this one part...

I honestly can say that..I..find the end of TLB..umm..dull..:o I dont know why...its just...not hard to understand and confusing. But I just didnt like it too much.

[ILOVENARNIA58192]

Sad, mad, broken hearted. I mean he killed my fave charaters.

[Gwendolyn]

C.S. Lewis was a christian. And so many of his beliefs and thoughts came through and were portrayed in the Chronicles. So LB is a sort of mirror image of what's going to happen to our world. So in a way to make the story work...they had to die. Just like people will die and have died and will go to heaven. And remember, these are all just wonderful stories. Nothing happened for real. I guess what makes me sad the most, is of things that are happening right now, much worse than this, and that are real.

[inkspot]

Sad, mad, broken hearted. I mean he killed my fave charaters.
He didn't really kill anyone except the bad guys like the monkey and Rishda Tarkhaan, the bad Calormene soldier. Everyone else was alive and well -- an in fact better than ever -- at the end of TLB. They were in Aslan's country!
:)

[Gwendolyn]

yup yup!!!

[Tazzy]

Oh I don't know. I only finished reading it today for the first time, and I feel awful. At first I had no feeling. I felt happy that they were in the real Narnia. But then I had this feeling like, what was the point in them trying to rescue the old Narnia in the first place? And then it struck me that they were dead, and now I want to cry, but I can't make myself cry, but I think I'll feel better if I do cry. I hate the ending. I hate the Last Battle. It's horrible. And I feel angry in a way too...but not as much as I feel broken hearted. :(

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Die? Did you miss the whole point? They were only "dead" to the shadowlands - their real lives were just beginning!

[Tazzy]

Die? Did you miss the whole point? They were only "dead" to the shadowlands - their real lives were just beginning!

Hehe. But they were dead to Susan. Anyway, I got over the whole thing, and the best part is that they're all together. :)

[PrinceOfTheWest]

Well, there's no denying that the end of the Old Narnia was a true loss. Even Tirian understood that, even as he was relishing the joys of the New Narnia. so it's not so much that you shouldn't mourn the loss of Old Narnia, but that you should be consoled that everything that was truly good, that was real and enduring, about Narnia was preserved in the New Narnia - and there it will never be stained.

And remember, Lewis didn't totally close the door on Susan. She was still alive on earth, so she had opportunities to return to Narnia still before her.

[Tazzy]

Still. After reading 'The Last Battle' it kind of made me think - what was the point of them trying to 'save' the old Narnia all those years? Afterall, it wasn't 'Real Narnia'.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

It was the most real Narnia they had at the time. The True Narnia was always there, "behind the curtain", so to speak, illuminating and adding depth and meaning to the Shadow Narnia. But by Aslan's design, they could only live in the Shadow Narnia because they were shadows themselves. They needed to be "firmed up", strengthened by trial, to even be able to stand in the True Narnia. I imagine if Lewis had written a story about any human, from (Shadow) Earth or (Shadow) Narnia, who found his way into True Narnia, that man would have found himself misty and insubstantial, like the ghosts in The Great Divorce (another Lewis work). The True Narnia was too real for them to bear, so they had to live in the Shadow Narnia for a while. The Shadow Narnia was the path, the signpost that pointed to the True Narnia - much like all the good things we have here on Earth are but shadows of and signposts to the greatest good of all.

[narnian reader]

I liked the last book but was sad becuase it was the last book. I wanted the story to go on and find out what happened. The last Battle was my favorite book especially since the Book of Revalation has always been one of my favorites in the Bible because it has thing that will happen in the future.

[Jessie-Simone]

I liked the last book but was sad becuase it was the last book. I wanted the story to go on and find out what happened. The last Battle was my favorite book especially since the Book of Revalation has always been one of my favorites in the Bible because it has thing that will happen in the future.
Same. :cool:

[Savanna_2010]

It was interesting. I felt..... don't remember..!

[supermeulen]

I love the way CS Lewis illustrated Aslan's Country. It made me have an even deeper desire for heaven!

[Spare Oomian]

After I finished LB, I both wanted to cry and laugh.:( :D It was so sad when they all died and Narnia was absolutely over. But when Aslan turned into God, I felt all tingly inside and I couldn't stop smiling...I'm even smiling now just thinking about it!

[SweetWaters]

When I was very young and reading the CoN, the LB always frightened me a good deal. It still is my least favorite of the chronicles. The ending is awesome, but for some reason that never made up for me for Susan and the poor horses. :( I loved (and still love) horses so much!

[Teddy]

I don't have anything with or against christianity, but it was obvious for me the Real Narnia looked like Heaven. It brought a smile on my face. That was how Heaven would be, peacefull and happy. I liked the idea. I wasn't sad. It couldn't have ended better. They were, in the Real Narnia, more happy than ever happily ever after, though a bit sad, because they had lost Susan. But I think it was good that Susan wasn't there. Life isn't perfect, and that's how it should be. I don't know anything about after-life, but experience has told me that the more one gets, the more one wants, the less happy one is. I felt happy after reading The Last Battle. A bit sad because it was the last book of a great serie, but my heart was pounding with joy for the 'Children' who were how they should be. They deserved it.

[Wunderkind]

^ Well said :)

[EveningStar]

The Last Battle ends triumphantly, joyfully. In God's kingdom the broken halves of their lives are united. There is no longer "we are either here or there" but a situation where all the people they loved in both worlds can know and love one another and there are no more goodbyes.

I think perhaps some of the people that posted in this thread have the wrong idea. If what more people do is the "norm" then our spiritual life after physical life is more normal than going about in carbon based bodies on Earth. And since that life is forever, the amount of time we spend on Earth in this form is the EXCEPTION rather than the RULE. There could be nothing more natural I could imagine than for people to assume their rightful place in God's kingdom.

[anna.the.gentle]

I wanted to cry; but I don't want to put much emotion on just a scene in a book: even though Susan is my favorite character.

Actually, this is the coverage of my Fan Fiction: Susan's Fate-Journey to a New Life. I thought (and was true) that many Narnia fans (not to mention Susan fans) were highly disappointed about the whole thing about Susan not returning to Narnia and the Friends of Narnia all dead and such. I've written it for all those desperate and disappointed fans out there. This is not the right thread to discuss it, but you may check it out in the Professor's Writing Club. Who knows, it might cheer you up. ;)

[subjectofthehighking]

How did I feel? Wow, there's a lot. When Aslan said that they were all dead, I got a pretty queer, spooky feeling in the pit of my stomach, especially thinking of our Peter, Edmund, Lucy and the rest as "smashed up by British railways." But, as Eustace said, it wasn't bad for them, because they weren't there.
I was filled with grief, and mourned for Narnia when the sun was put out, but of course, discovering the "real" Narnia filled me with absolute joy. And I can't begin to describe the giggly, bursting feeling of a heart overflowing with joy at the time of the reunions, and the listing of the people of the history of Narnia. I cheered when Reepicheep greeted the newcomers.
Of course, not being very athletic, the idea of running the speed of a car and never getting tired is very appealing.:)
The real Narnia is the perfect idea of heaven. I'm just wondering if it will actually, be a deeper, more wonderful yet a copy of earth. I guess we'll find out when we get there.

[Dexnell]

I took a a good little while to read all seven book.s Just recently I finished the Magician's Nephew and was enthused to finish "the last battle." I think it doesn't matter what anyone says this one book is one of the best in the series if not the best. The storyline, the imagery eberything was just "epic". I loved the book. While reading the book I began feeling everything might just turn out all right but then subtly the tides changed. It was clear the end was near. I had a real melacholy feeling after reading it but after reflecting on what the book might have meant or what Lewis was trying to say I'm not feeling as sad but more in a matter-of-fact way. The book draw a parallel between our lives and the events of the Chronicles of Narnia. If anything it has you thinking about the end times. The christian link is also very much there, TLB reminded me very much of revelations.

Nevertheless, great book.

[Red Roses]

i wanted the book to go on and find out what was going to happen to them next, especially Susan. her whole family dies, and some of her friends too. i really really wanted to know what she would have done

[musicalfantasy]

I actually put off reading it because I was affraid of finishing the series. I did not want it to end so soon. Finally, I just had to read it and when I did.....I was so sad! Everyone was turning away from Aslan and they just would not listen. When I finished the book, I had mixed emotions. I was sad because it was over and everyone died except for Susan, but I was also quite happy. I was glad that everyone (except Susan) went to Aslan's country, but still, they were dead and Narnia was no more. I felt so bad for Susan also. It almost ended like a cliff-hanger. You never find out what happened to Susan, and as soon as everyone arrives to Aslan's Country, it pretty much leaves it up to you to imagine what adventures they had there and what not. I'm okay now though, I just wish there was more Narnia to read. OH well.....

[GentlePrincess]

i felt amazed and happy at the same time because of the end the last paragragh was so misterious to me and i loved it but for the rest of the book i loved it but i felt bad because it was the end of narnia and also because susan didnt belive in narnia which that made me sad but overall i liked the book

[Lila]

I felt depressed.... but maybe a little happy... I guess. The book was overall really sad. :(

[FaunFan01]

I was like :eek::(.

I was sorta depressed, because of Susan. But I was also happy, because, well, just because of the fact they were in the new Narnia.
*happy sigh* ............ I'm gonna go read it again:p.

[~indira~]

i was kinda dazed..kind of like in a ...uhhhhhhhhh... mode.. i was sad,overcomed with relization..and happy...

[Sir Godfrey]

I felt amazed, awestruck and sense of total satifaction. I thought the ending was by far one of the best endings in Literature. I felt such a sense of joy as all the beloved characters came together (Minus Susan). My favorite part was C.S. Lewis' "All their life in this world and all the adventures in Narnia had only been the cover andd tile page: now at last they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which none on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before."
After reading all the Chronicles of Narnia, I declare The Last Battle my favorite. I didn't want to mention this, but I cried at the end.

[Gwendolyn]

I felt amazed, awestruck and sense of total satifaction. I thought the ending was by far one of the best endings in Literature. I felt such a sense of joy as all the beloved characters came together (Minus Susan). My favorite part was C.S. Lewis' "All their life in this world and all the adventures in Narnia had only been the cover andd tile page: now at last they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which none on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before."
After reading all the Chronicles of Narnia, I declare The Last Battle my favorite. I didn't want to mention this, but I cried at the end.
i'm totally with you on that! ditto! (including the crying part)

[Sir Godfrey]

i'm totally with you on that! ditto! (including the crying part)

It's nice to know others had the same reaction :)

[Aravis_yanes]

I felt happy for everyone and sad because of Susan...:(

[QueenSusanofNarnia]

Cried. For an hour.

[Miss.SunFlower]

Cried, but felt.... hopeful I guess. it's odd.

[The Spanish Inquisition]

It's complicated.

The description of the Real Narnia/Heaven and the last paragraph was so beautiful I nearly cried, but it was so darn nice...

[Lady of Narnia]

I cried my eyes out when I read The Last Battle. (Very emotional person) And I loved the description of the Real Narnia. I was also very sad that Susan didn't come back in the end! She was always my favorite. But yeah, I loved that book, and I still cry when I read it. :o

[KnightBond]

I really enjoyed the Last Battle, it's epic and exciting, yet full or sorrow and joy at the very end.

I have a question about towards the end of the book, I tried to post a new thread, but I guess I haven't been here long enough or something.

When the scene goes from Old Narnia to New Narnia there's a Telmarine soldier there named Emeth. He has never met Aslan in Narnia, yet he is allowed to stay in Aslan's country because he believed so fervantly (even if it was in Tash, not Aslan). Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and I know the Narnia books are not meant to be strict allegory, but wouldn't this be like saying that as long as you believe strongly enough in a god (little g) then you'll be welcomed into heaven (aka Aslan's Country) This goes against Lewis' Christian beliefs (which I share) and kind of threw me for a loop I guess.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this, but I'd like you guys' take on this. I haven't found any other Narnia related books (even the ones that talk about the theology Lewis wrote into Narnia) addressing this.

[PuzzleGlum]

I really enjoyed the Last Battle, it's epic and exciting, yet full or sorrow and joy at the very end.

I have a question about towards the end of the book, I tried to post a new thread, but I guess I haven't been here long enough or something.

When the scene goes from Old Narnia to New Narnia there's a Telmarine soldier there named Emeth. He has never met Aslan in Narnia, yet he is allowed to stay in Aslan's country because he believed so fervantly (even if it was in Tash, not Aslan). Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and I know the Narnia books are not meant to be strict allegory, but wouldn't this be like saying that as long as you believe strongly enough in a god (little g) then you'll be welcomed into heaven (aka Aslan's Country) This goes against Lewis' Christian beliefs (which I share) and kind of threw me for a loop I guess.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this, but I'd like you guys' take on this. I haven't found any other Narnia related books (even the ones that talk about the theology Lewis wrote into Narnia) addressing this.

Welcome to the forums KnightBond (Don't worry. The posting problem is temporary). First, Emeth was a Calormen soldier, not a Telmarine. Telmarines assimilated into Narnian culture about two hundred years ago.

As for Emeth being in the real Narnia, I've always wondered that too. My best explanation for that is that in Narnia, salvation is different from that of our world. Because the first sin in Narnia was commited by an out-of-worlder, I think Aslan was willing to be a bit more lenient. In addition, Emeth was worshipping the opposite of Aslan, but behaved as it were Aslan he was serving. Like Aslan said, because he and Tash were opposites, Tash couldn't have taken Emeth. An in our world, there is no opposite (unless you count satanism, but I can't imagine any satanist acting like they served God).

Second theory: Emeth could have been completely ignorant of Aslan in Calomen. Lewis could have been saying "ignorance may be okay, if you have lived a good life."

Of course, this is all subjective.

[EveningStar]

Go straight to either Wikipedia or your favourite online source and look for "Anonymous Christianity".

It's the doctrine, which was accepted as part of Vatican II, that someone who seeks Christ and his ways with all their heart but never found out who he was can find salvation.

It's a little more complicated than that, but let's put it this way. You live on the Island of Rongo Hivu and you have no contact with Christianity whatsoever. Yet you feel that people treat one another abhominably. You try to get people to live by laws that respect life, private property, and the need to be grateful to the power that made the universe. This person works hard to establish these and eventually dies at the hands of the powerful warlords who consider him an idiot and a dreamer.

Was this a fool or a martyr?

Look at one of the Pharoahs, Akhenaten. He risked the wrath of the powerful temple priests and servants to declare that there is only one God who never sins and who is all knowing and all powerful. He was no more than cold in his grave when the priests persuaded his son Tutankhaten to change back and become Tutankhamon. Akhenaten had his temples overthrown, his likeness chipped off monuments.

Let me tell you what he said:
How manifold it is, what thou hast made! They are hidden from the face (of man). O sole god, like whom there is no other! Thou didst create the world according to thy desire, Whilst thou wert alone: All men, cattle, and wild beasts, Whatever is on earth, going upon (its) feet, And what is on high, flying with its wings. The countries of Syria and Nubia, the land of Egypt, Thou settest every man in his place, Thou suppliest their necessities: Everyone has his food, and his time of life is reckoned. Their tongues are separate in speech, And their natures as well; Their skins are distinguished, As thou distinguishest the foreign peoples. Thou makest a Nile in the underworld, Thou bringest forth as thou desirest To maintain the people (of Egypt) According as thou madest them for thyself, The lord of all of them, wearying (himself) with them, The lord of every land, rising for them, The Aton of the day, great of majesty.

[KnightBond]

Wow. Thank you both for your replies. I had never read about Akhenaten before. It was interesting. I have read about Anonymous Christianity before in college, but I don't exactly agree with it.

I think I am more leaning toward PuzzleGlums's first theory, it may not click exactly (after all, these books aren't scripture) but I can't bring myself to accept the theology behind the "man on the island" idea of salvation. I don't believe that there is any way to be saved apart from a personal relationship with Christ. I guess that's why I have a hard time with Emeth in this book.

One thing I didn't realize (and thanks for pointing this out) is that he was Caloremen and not Telmarine. I know the people who founded Telmar were once pirates who found a way into Narnia through a cave. But where did the Caloremens come from? Were they descendants of Frank and Helen (the cabbie driver and his wife who were the first king and queen)? Maybe then, the Caloremens were seen as Narnians (instead of humans from our world) and then it could be like God in the Old Testament with the Israelites. (where keeping good standards in the sight of God seemed to be more of works as well as looking forward to the coming of the Promise of Christ) Not exactly the same, but somewhat of a similar idea?

Also interesting is that while God and Satan are not opposites (Lewis makes his view of this clear in Mere Christianity) Aslan says that he and Tash are. This puts a whole new spin on the theology of Narnia :)

Again, thanks for the discussion. While it might not amount to much in our world, it's very interesting and insightful! I wish that CS Lewis was still alive and I could fly to England for a chat. I'd love to pick his brain on this :)

[~Valiant]

I felt happy that the Pevensies along with Eustace and Jill and all the other good Narnians got their happy ending. I was disappointed about Susan, though. But I think she'll turn out all right...

Of course I was sad that I had finished the series. Ha ha. There's always re-reading, though!

[PrinceOfTheWest]

It's never quite explained where the Calormenes came from. Their culture bears resemblance to both the Ottoman Turkish court (the very image of the exotic and mysterious in the days of Lewis' youth) and the ancient Persian court. One thing they aren't intended to be is Muslim, since they are clearly idol-worshipers, but their origins could have been from the central to southwest Asian region.

[EveningStar]

Dear friend, the ultimate question is not whether you have a problem with the theology of the "man on an island" but whether God does. ;)

[KnightBond]

It's never quite explained where the Calormenes came from. Their culture bears resemblance to both the Ottoman Turkish court (the very image of the exotic and mysterious in the days of Lewis' youth) and the ancient Persian court. One thing they aren't intended to be is Muslim, since they are clearly idol-worshipers, but their origins could have been from the central to southwest Asian region.

I guess that's why I couldn't remember where they came from. Interesting observations though. Thanks for the info.

EveningStar: Yes, in all my feeble attempts to understand God and His ways I always come up short. I guess one day we can ask Him :)

Valiant: Amen. And when it comes to Narnia, I'm always up for a re-read!

[pokemainiac]

I myself never cry at books or films, I'm like that.

Second, it says on C.S Lewis' official narnian timeline that calormen was inhabited by outlaws from archenland, and archenland was inhabited when Col, son of Frank the 5th led followers there.

[KnightBond]

calormen was inhabited by outlaws from archenland, and archenland was inhabited when Col, son of Frank the 5th led followers there.

So, they were descendants of the first king and queen? Interesting.
Where did you find the official timeline??

[PrinceOfTheWest]

You can find it several places on the Internet. It's also under dispute. The person who published it did so after Lewis' death. He claimed that Lewis had drawn it up, but nobody else had ever seen it or heard Lewis mention such a time line. It contains several points that contradict statements in the stories themselves.

To be fair, Lewis himself understood that there were inconsistencies in the stories, and hoped to reconcile them someday, but never got around to it.

For my part, I don't accept anything from the timeline as legitimate canon. I only accept that which is found in the stories.

[KnightBond]

Thanks.
I looked at a couple of timelines online. They're pretty interesting. But, yeah, I'm with you - I'll accept only what's in the books as true Narnian "fact", still the timelines can be helpful in sorting out the dates in your head.

[MrBob]

"Second, it says on C.S Lewis' official narnian timeline that calormen was inhabited by outlaws from archenland, and archenland was inhabited when Col, son of Frank the 5th led followers there."

Do not believe the timeline, pokemainiac. You have shown here how it is wrong. Col, Frank V son did not found Archenland. Read the end of MN, it states that Frank and Helen's (the first king and queen) second son founded Archenland.

I do not believe much of what is written on the timeline. Even the years of the events that concern the Pevensies on Earth are suspect.

We have had a thread elsewhere surrounding what can be considered canon and what should not. The m,ain things that can truly be considered canon are what is printed in the books. Since Lewis never definitively stated where the Calormene ancestors came from, anything, including the timeline, is speculation.

I'm trying to think how many generations it would take for a people to go from caucasian to dark-skinned. I gues it could be posible for a people to go from light-skinned to dark skinned within a millenia, but is that what happened or was there another group of people who were naturally dark-skinned who entered into the Narnian world?

MrBob

[inkspot]

I gues it could be posible for a people to go from light-skinned to dark skinned within a millenia, but is that what happened or was there another group of people who were naturally dark-skinned who entered into the Narnian world?
Yah, just like the Telmarines got in through a door on an island in the South Seas, I assumed the Calormene ancestors got in through a door in Iraq or Turkey or something...

[KnightBond]

I gues it could be posible for a people to go from light-skinned to dark skinned within a millenia, but is that what happened or was there another group of people who were naturally dark-skinned who entered into the Narnian world?

MrBob

It makes more sense if the people from Caloremen are from our world somewhere up the line. Especially, if they were descended from King Frank, when did they start worshiping idols? (Not that it doesn't happen - look at Israel in the Old Testament). It's just sad to think that a royal Narnian lineage would turn into the evil Caloremens. So, I like to think they were similar to the Telmarines. But it doesn't help explain why Emeth was allowed to stay in Aslan's Country, even though he had never met Aslan and served Tash all his life. That's what kind of started all this about the Caloremens in the first place. I guess I'll just have to accept that, even if I don't understand His ways, Aslan can do what He wants ;)

[NarniaGirl12]

I cried the first couple times I read it because I was sad that Susan wasn't with them and they were all dead but now I'm happy when I read it cuz I realize they all get to be happy and live in Narnia forever in peace. :) It's my second fave book in the series.

[Mozart the Meerkitten]

My favorite Narnia book and second favorite book in the world is The Last Battle. I love it. It tells about the End Of The World in a way a kid can understand in. I don't actualy think Narnia has ended completely. I think Narnia and all other worlds will end when Jesus comes back to this world. How I felt after reading The Last Battle? Happy amazingly happy. Happy to know...This is NOT the End. I already knew of course for I had read Revelation, but I love to hear about the End Of The World.

In conclusion I say this; if you want to read an Amazing book but aren't ready for The Bible read Narnia.

I can't wait for The Last Battle.

[Knight of Narnia]

The first time I read the end of the book, I felt as though I had a lump in my throat. I just kind of sat there thinking about the end for a good long time. It was a truly moving ending to the series, and just thinking about it makes me relive that feeling I had the first time I read it.

Lewis ended the series in a truly moving and passionate way. It was a wonderful and powerful ending and truly brought an already wonderful series to a new level.

[pink-cheetah]

The first time I read The Last Battle, I was a 5th grader and I didn't completely understand what had happened. I was certainly happy that the Pevensies (save Susan) got to stay in Narnia and were reunited with all their old friends, but I was thoroughly confused.

Mostly, it was Aslan's ending speech that confused me. "The term had ended, this is the holidays" or something akin to that. "The dream has ended, this is the morning!" Not really being acquainted with the English vocabulary (ie, term as opposed to semester- silly me!), I was thrown off.

I did read it again later on, maybe a year or two later, and by that time, I was able to understand the ending and appreciate it in a way that I hadn't when I went through the book the first time. =]

[marsh_wiggle_for_life]

After I had finished reading the Last Battle I was sad because it was the end to a great series and I wanted to keep on reading more. Like when you come to the end of a bowl of ice cream or something. You really enjoyed it but you're sad it's over.

[Copperfox]

That desire for more is well known to tellers and audiences of great stories. In the Renaissance era, poets wrote sagas about medieval heroes, including a variation of the French hero Roland called Orlando. In the form of Orlando, this knight _didn't_ die at Roncevalles, but lived to have sons and grandsons. The storytellers would give dashing adventures to the sons and grandsons also--but would still keep Orlando present at least in the background, because they couldn't bear to let him die.

[Lucy but Taller]

I cried. It was sad.

[Mozart the Meerkitten]

I cried. It was sad.

How can you say The Last Battle is sad?!? It is Amazing!! It is the second happiest book I've ever read!

[PrinceOfTheWest]

For me, it was both. Remember, both Tirian and Lucy cried to see night fall on Old Narnia, even though a better, truer Narnia awaited.

[prince_caspian]

I was sooo sad! Also bored since they didn't fight in Heaven. Nor did Reepicheep who went to Aslan's Country in ThVygOThDaTr tell of his adventures.

[Mozart the Meerkitten]

I was sooo sad! Also bored since they didn't fight in Heaven. Nor did Reepicheep who went to Aslan's Country in ThVygOThDaTr tell of his adventures.

I see you do not know much of Heaven, or at least not enough to have figuered out that YOU DO NOT FIGHT IN HEAVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And whos to say Reepicheep never told them? Lewis didn't put it in the book it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

And WHY DO YOU PEOPLE THINK THE LAST BATTLE IS SO SAD???? ITS THE SECOND HAPPIEST BOOK EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only reason I could ever find to be sad about it is that its the end of the Narnia seris.:)

[PuzzleGlum]

Mostly, it was Aslan's ending speech that confused me. "The term had ended, this is the holidays" or something akin to that. "The dream has ended, this is the morning!" Not really being acquainted with the English vocabulary (ie, term as opposed to semester- silly me!), I was thrown off.



Being an american, I also had no idea "term" meant "semester". Right before Aslan says "the term is over", he tells the Pevensies, Digory, Polly, Eustace, and Jill "You are, as they say in the shadowlands, dead". When Aslan says that the term is over, I always thought that the "term" was death, as in "death no longer has meaning". Which, quite frankly, works for me.;)