Bye bye, Saddam...

[Ephinie]

I thought about posting this in the thread about capital punishment or in the War in Iraq thread... but then I thought, nah, let's make it its own thread.

So I heard on the news that Saddam was sentenced to death by hanging. Not very surprising, eh?

They showed some footage of a group of children dancing around and shouting joyfully . How sad is it when little children get excited about you being sentenced to death? Poor guy.
Not that he doesn't deserve it, of course. He seems pretty arrogant as well, even now. They said he started shouting at the judge and refused to stand up to hear his sentencing. But still... I just can't get past this idea of small children being happy about a man's death.

[Solya]

I can't get over the idea that they decided to do that in the first place. Then again, I'm firmly against capital punishment so my take on this is not surprising. I'd rather have seen the man locked up and put away where no one would be able to find him for the rest of his rather miserable life. A half-life is better than no life at all... this is just an eye for an eye, which is in my opinion not the proper punishment. I feel that by killing him we offer him an easy way out. :rolleyes:

[Ephinie]

I am going to have to disagree with you, Solya. I am not against the death penalty when it is being applied to someone whose crimes are as obvious and vast as Saddam's. It is not an eye for an eye, but rather justice. Technically speaking, the eye for an eye thing would be IMPOSSIBLE in this situation because you can't kill Saddam thousands of times over - once for every victim of his.

And I get what you're saying about keeping him locked up for the rest of his life might be more of a punishment. But the point is not to punish and torment - it is to exact justice.

I do, however, find the idea of little children dancing about it to be deeply disturbing. This is not to say that they should not be doing this. Many of them probably have family who were tormented and/or killed by Saddam's regime. I can understand it. It is hard for me to articulate exactly what I mean here... I guess the only way to put it is to say, if children start dancing and singing when they hear that you're going to be executed, that makes a HUGE statement about the way you lived your life.

[EveningStar]

Time to weigh in here. Cultural lecture warning...beep beep beep....

The Semitic peoples...Arabs and Hebrews...lived in a harsh desert environment. Such environments emphasize the deadly nature of infringing on property rights. Just think about the old west in the United States where stealing a chap's horse meant going to the necktie party with or without benefit of law enforcement.

Just look at how primitive societies living in tropical regions live. No privacy, no private property, few rules.

Humans do whatever they must do to survive and somewhere along the line they codify it into a series of rules. Sadaam has been charged with desert justice. And that's fitting because he handed it out liberally for many years.

[inkspot]

I gotta agree with Ephinie that it is disturbing for anyone, let alone little children, to find glee over anyone's death. I know Saddam is as bad as they come ... but shouldn't there just be mourning over the way he lived his life, and the way he now has to die for it? It's a sad situation all around. I can't see anyone finding joy in it, even if it has to be done.

All I can think is his life and crimes so demoralized his people as to poison the culture in such a way that one more death seems like a reason to celebrate. That's horrible.

[Wunderkind]

Yeah I heard about that...I had no idea they still used hanging to execute people,sort of like they did in the 1700th century..but I don't know much about that country to be honest.
And I don't think someone's death is something to celebrate.Even though he deserves it....That's just horrible.

[Neevil]

I feel bad for the children, not Saddam. He obviously must have had effected them very badly for them to be so happy about his sentence.

[Wunderkind]

I feel bad for the children, not Saddam. He obviously must have had effected them very badly for them to be so happy about his sentence.
Yeah I thought about that too...*shudders*

[PeterC]

He deserves death. But he doesn't deserve to be laughed at in front of his face about it.

Oh, and they still hang people?

[Lady Narnia]

He deserves death. But he doesn't deserve to be laughed at in front of his face about it.
Well, they are probably relieved that he's going to/is dead. Now, they're kinda free. He doesn't deserve it in his face, but they are aloud to be happy...I think

[Saruman]

This is marvelous news indeed that a wicked man is receiving the just recompense for his deeds. One can only pray he may turn to the Lord in these last days of his life; but whether or not he does, I am grateful true justice is being carried forth.

[Parthian King]

I am not against capital punishment, though there is certainly a gap between the ideal and the way it is carried out in any number of countries, including the USA. In this case it seems a pretty over the top example of being deserved and justly applied.

The issue is not personal vengeance or glee, but administering justice. That's why it is important, I think, to remember the proverbs that declare that if we rejoice at our enemy's fall, God will turn His wrath away from him, as well as that word that states Godt akes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

This should bring pleasure to no one. If it provides relief and resolution to some, they cannot be blamed. In any case, I can hope that it concludes a chapter that the West has had far too much to do with, but I have my doubts.

[Samwise Gamgee]

HUZA!!! This is AWESOME!!!!! Two good news in only three days!!! Dad is back we are home and that...mad man is dead!!! HUZA!!! You don't know how long us millitary kids have waited for this man to get this sentnce. It brings joy to us because that means the war is one step tords bieng done! I say he got it to a good reason and I don't blame the kids and people of Iraq to rejoyus in this time. They need to because of the heart ach and pain that, that stupid man put them throught. HUZA!

[lieke]

It is never awesome when someone gets killed, because you know that he did awfull things to get such a punishment.
Personally, i am against capital punishment. I know that he did horrible things, but killing him... My opinion: put him in prison for the rest of his life.

[DeviaAngelus]

Do Arabs still cut off the hands of thief\ves? And I wouldent be happy if any one was sentenced to death, even THAT guy.

[Cyon Corell]

One reaps what one sows...and no I'm not quoting the Bible. According to the Q'uran, one is not to take the life of another, except in case where it is necessary to save another's life or one's own, or in order to uphold the law. In this case, it is just recompense, in accordance with Islamic jurisprudence, to execute this horrible person. For the suffering he caused to millions of innocent people in his own country and its neighboring nations, he deserves nothing less. I leave his ultimate fate up to Allah, as He, not I, shall decide his fate in the next world. But, the authorities in Iraq, operating as viceregents for that area of this world, have the right to decide his fate on this plane of existence. The Lord, known by the name Allah, may forgive him, but seeing what crimes he has committed, even in the most optimisitic speculations, it's very unlikely, IMHO. Azrael will question him and he must answer for his deeds, as far as I know. This being said, I agree with the sentence. After all, Saddam could have avoided this by choosing to refrain from gassing the Kurds or executing (in a most gruesome manner) those who opposed his politically. That and launching missiles at Israel and using nerve gas on the Iranians. The death this man has caused puts him on par with Hitler, whom most here would agree deserved a terrible punishment for his crimes against the Jews and other peoples. An interesting fact to point out is that the Ba'ath Party was actually founded based on Nazi principles and had actual contact with the Nazi party prior to and during the Second World War. Essentially, one could say the Ba'ath Party was an Arab version of the Nazi party. I guess that it's no surprise that they committed the crimes that they did, under the leadership of Sadaam. As the leader of the Ba'ath Pary he does deserve the punishment he has been given.

See ya on the flipside, :uberfightmonk:

Cyon Corell

[office]

I feel bad for the children, not Saddam. He obviously must have had effected them very badly for them to be so happy about his sentence.
I agree.
(10 thingy)

[NarnianPrincess]

I have several things to say:

1. God instituted capitol punishment in the Old Testament, He always had the Israelites completely destroy their enemies, usually including women and children.

2. What specifically do you all have against capitol punishment?

3. These children have spent a good deal of their innocent years under the fear and unjust rule of this TERRORIST Saddam, why on earth shouldn't they be glad that they no longer have to fear him?
I also realize that it is very sad they should be happy, but it is far more sad that they ever had to fear him in the first place.

Btw, the reason I have capitolized terrorist, is because I want you to note that I didn't say 'insurgent'. I believe in calling a spade a spade. And in this war it is creatures that inflict terror that we are fighting. We are not fighting soliders.

[lieke]

I have several things to say:

1. God instituted capitol punishment in the Old Testament, He always had the Israelites completely destroy their enemies, usually including women and children.

So what do you mean? I mean, America and the UK are in a war with Iraq, should they kill the terrorist's children and wifes?

2. What specifically do you all have against capitol punishment?

I think there is a thread on the subject, but i will say it here again. Capital Punishment is taking someone's life. I believe in second chances. I mean, we all deserve to die, if we look at ourselves, we are all sinners, and we are all unable to face God by ourselves, we all need Jesus. Let's say i murdered someone (i didn't, but just for the example), and i'll ask God for forgiveness, i think that he will forgive me if i truly mean it.
If i murdered someone, and i'll be killed by capital punishment, i might not have the chance to ask God for forgiveness. I know, you always have a chance, but isn't God the one who should decide about who lives and who doesn't?

[Neevil]

I think there is a thread on the subject, but i will say it here again. Capital Punishment is taking someone's life. I believe in second chances. I mean, we all deserve to die, if we look at ourselves, we are all sinners, and we are all unable to face God by ourselves, we all need Jesus. Let's say i murdered someone (i didn't, but just for the example), and i'll ask God for forgiveness, i think that he will forgive me if i truly mean it.
If i murdered someone, and i'll be killed by capital punishment, i might not have the chance to ask God for forgiveness. I know, you always have a chance, but isn't God the one who should decide about who lives and who doesn't?
Romans 13 says the governing authorities are God's minister's of justice. It also says that they "do not bear the sword in vain." Sometimes capital punishment is the JUST consequences for certain actions.

[lieke]

Romans 13 says the governing authorities are God's minister's of justice. It also says that they "do not bear the sword in vain." Sometimes capital punishment is the JUST consequences for certain actions.
If i look at today's governments i don't see "God's minister's of justice". Let's keep it close to home, if i look at the government in The Netherlands i see a lot of things that are definately against God's will. I bet that is the same in the USA, as in almost every country.

Romans 12:
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

I don't think we should repay evil for evil, i know Saddam Hussein did very very bad things, and i do not mean that we should just say: well, you're sorry, fine, go ahead back to your country. But i do say that revenge is for God, and that it is not our decision if someone lives or dies.

[Neevil]

If i look at today's governments i don't see "God's minister's of justice". Let's keep it close to home, if i look at the government in The Netherlands i see a lot of things that are definately against God's will. I bet that is the same in the USA, as in almost every country.

Romans 12:
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

I don't think we should repay evil for evil, i know Saddam Hussein did very very bad things, and i do not mean that we should just say: well, you're sorry, fine, go ahead back to your country. But i do say that revenge is for God, and that it is not our decision if someone lives or dies.
This was written to the early Christians, who fell under Roman authorities. Do you know what the Romans did to the Christians?? :eek: There were terrible torturous things going on then. The Roman goverment was far from being just. HOWEVER, the early Christians were still told this.

Also, there is a difference between revenge and justice. Those verses you brought up are saying we should not take revenge on our enemies, but instead, allow God to administer justice. If goverments are established by God, in order to minister justice, then we allow God to administer His justice through the goverment.

[Son of Adam]

Even though I have qualms concerning the death penalty overall, I am glad to see that justice will prevail here.

Saddam murdered over 2.5 million of his own people. His is second in deaths only to that of the holocaust. And this doesn't even count those he helped to commit terrorist acts. We know he paid the families of suicide bombers in Palestine some $25,000 for their children to carry out terrorist acts against innocent civilian targets. He had them hunted down, arrested, tortured, and killed in all sorts of inhumane ways. He killed over 100,000 Iranians using chemical and biological weapons.

As far as the children rejoicing over the death sentence is concerned, I can understand it. We live in a country where dictators like Saddam cannot, at least yet, find a way to power. Many of these children have seen their parents tortured and killed, their mother's and sisters raped and sodomized by Saddam and his military. They have lived what none of us could even imagine. So, yes, they feel that their parents, friends, and other family members who are dead at Saddam's hand will find justice at last.

Put him in a prison for life? Not unless you did it in some secret prison facility where no suni group could reach him. Because if he was merely put into a prison in Iraq, they would find a way to free him and he would soon return to power. No thank you.

I hope he does find Christ before the sentence is carried out, but in his case, the punishment is the price for millions of lives he has taken.

[Cyon Corell]

Idealism aside, the punishment is well deserved. He did have the CHOICE not to commit the crimes that he committed. As has been taught to me, God made all the Children of Adam noble. Thus by the gift of free will, we ALL have the choice to resist temptation and to NOT sin. Thus, Sadaam chose to wrong all those people that he had killed, raped, etc. He deserves what he's getting. As for his being saved, at least non-temporally, I hope he finds his way back to Islam and not to another path that will not solve his spiritual and moral dilemna, IMHO. He needs to submit before Allah and repent. Then perhaps he will be forgiven, for having lost his arrogance and having accepted into his life Allah and his Law, he will be in Allah's hands, to that extent. Repentance and Allah's mercy are the only things that can save him at this point, not human forgiveneness for that is imperfect.


See ya on the flipside, :uberfightmonk:

Cyon Corell

[Samwise Gamgee]

It is never awesome when someone gets killed, because you know that he did awfull things to get such a punishment.
Personally, i am against capital punishment. I know that he did horrible things, but killing him... My opinion: put him in prison for the rest of his life.
I don't agree with you on that at all. He got what he deserved. It is no good having a mad man around at all even in prison. I say it is awesome because he is a highly dangorus criminal and should not be kept a live at all. It would not matter if it was capital punishment. Look at what he did to the poor iraqi people. I do not feel awful or content for this man. He was a muder and a bad man in many veiws. If he did not get hanged or killed for punishment then the good people of Iraq would have got him and did the same or worse to him. I say good rid of this man and the Al Kidia people. terriests is what they are called. G-d has a plan for them and we don't need to intrveen with it. Evil shant takle the good. G-d is good and they are evil.

[ArrowsOfSilver]

Druids have a little thing they like to call karma.
He had it all coming.

It would have caught up with him sooner or later.

[LifeMaiden]

I thought about posting this in the thread about capital punishment or in the War in Iraq thread... but then I thought, nah, let's make it its own thread.

So I heard on the news that Saddam was sentenced to death by hanging. Not very surprising, eh?

They showed some footage of a group of children dancing around and shouting joyfully . How sad is it when little children get excited about you being sentenced to death? Poor guy.
Not that he doesn't deserve it, of course. He seems pretty arrogant as well, even now. They said he started shouting at the judge and refused to stand up to hear his sentencing. But still... I just can't get past this idea of small children being happy about a man's death.


I'm not rejoicing, nor am I crying about it. I wouldn't jump for 'joy' over any murderer being killed. I'd accept it as justice done, and that's it. Let's move on. Killing someone, even a dictator such as himself, brings little consolation in truth to those who lost their lives already to him or those suffering as a result of his crimes. One life for thousands or hundreds of thousands? How do you truly punish someone who isn't sorry for what he did anyways?

[LifeMaiden]

[QUOTE=Cyon Corell]Idealism aside, the punishment is well deserved. He did have the CHOICE not to commit the crimes that he committed. As has been taught to me, God made all the Children of Adam noble. Thus by the gift of free will, we ALL have the choice to resist temptation and to NOT sin. Thus, Sadaam chose to wrong all those people that he had killed, raped, etc. He deserves what he's getting. As for his being saved, at least non-temporally, I hope he finds his way back to Islam and not to another path that will not solve his spiritual and moral dilemna, IMHO. He needs to submit before Allah and repent. Then perhaps he will be forgiven, for having lost his arrogance and having accepted into his life Allah and his Law, he will be in Allah's hands, to that extent. Repentance and Allah's mercy are the only things that can save him at this point, not human forgiveneness for that is imperfect.


See ya on the flipside, :uberfightmonk:



How do you punish someone who won't repent and doesn't want to be saved by Jesus OR by Allah?

[LifeMaiden]

Even though I have qualms concerning the death penalty overall, I am glad to see that justice will prevail here.

Saddam murdered over 2.5 million of his own people. His is second in deaths only to that of the holocaust. And this doesn't even count those he helped to commit terrorist acts. We know he paid the families of suicide bombers in Palestine some $25,000 for their children to carry out terrorist acts against innocent civilian targets. He had them hunted down, arrested, tortured, and killed in all sorts of inhumane ways. He killed over 100,000 Iranians using chemical and biological weapons.

As far as the children rejoicing over the death sentence is concerned, I can understand it. We live in a country where dictators like Saddam cannot, at least yet, find a way to power. Many of these children have seen their parents tortured and killed, their mother's and sisters raped and sodomized by Saddam and his military. They have lived what none of us could even imagine. So, yes, they feel that their parents, friends, and other family members who are dead at Saddam's hand will find justice at last.

Put him in a prison for life? Not unless you did it in some secret prison facility where no suni group could reach him. Because if he was merely put into a prison in Iraq, they would find a way to free him and he would soon return to power. No thank you.

I hope he does find Christ before the sentence is carried out, but in his case, the punishment is the price for millions of lives he has taken.



As usual, you have insightful things to say, Carl.


What has always bothered me is...how does one 'truly' punish a cruel dictator who HAS taken millions of lives? Who even worse, has no repentance, cares nothing for the crimes he had committed, and even thinks what he did was perfectly justifiable ( to him, I mean). To me, if my family was killed by this man, I don't know if I'd even feel justice WAS done.

Personally, and you guys are going to run away when I say this...I would stick him in solitary and subject him to eating pork for the rest of his days. :p

[Son of Adam]

How do you punish someone who won't repent and doesn't want to be saved by Jesus OR by Allah?

The problem with Saddam is that he has deluded himself into believing that what he did was the will of God or Allah. He believes that there is nothing to repent of. That's the tragedy of his life and that of most of these radical muslims.

Saddam's life will be taken which will bring some closure to many people, but the final judgement will be done by God, and if he doesn't repent, that's when the real justice for all those he has harmed will take place.

[LifeMaiden]

The problem with Saddam is that he has deluded himself into believing that what he did was the will of God or Allah. He believes that there is nothing to repent of. That's the tragedy of his life and that of most of these radical muslims.

Saddam's life will be taken which will bring some closure to many people, but the final judgement will be done by God, and if he doesn't repent, that's when the real justice for all those he has harmed will take place.

In other words, his Hell will be a roomful of pork ribs, bacon, and Stars of David and crosses. LOL I had to say it. Can you imagine? That would be like a Japanese guy in World War II stuck in an American GI bar hell with a fork and a knife, and no chopsticks.


I'm not thrilled about children jumping for joy when someone is being executed. However, SYMBOLICALLY, I'd like to look at it this way...they were not necessarily celebrating his 'death' per se, but the fact that his way of 'life' is now dead, despite Iraq being torn by more civil war. His dictatorship, his evil ways, his cruelty...are dead, along with him. Things are pretty bad in Iraq, but you have to start somewhere. Getting rid of Saddam in power was the main thing. There is much, much work to be done there. But it couldn't be done unless he himself was gone.

[Son of Adam]

And if you saw the news today, his execution may be months or longer. Plus the fact that the Sunni muslims who supported Saddam are going to cause all sorts of problems before and after his execution if it does happen. There are many world leaders that are upset with the sentencing. The appeals process is underway. And Saddam is yet to be tried for his killing of the Kurds using biological weapons. So we'll see if it really happens.

Saddam has escaped execution before and come back to rule Iraq. I could happen again if we aren't careful

[Cyon Corell]

In response to LifeMaiden's question, I would say that you punish him as best as one can in this world, according to the crime committed. Allah will decided his ultimate fate. In dying he is being sent to stand before Azrael, the angel of death. He will be questioned on his deeds and then shown the punishment that he will face following the day of Judgement. For one who will not repent, there is still hope for forgiveness, even in the depths of Hell, for Allah has power over all creation. But, he must repent. If he does not, then he will face the just punishment metted out by Allah's angels. There is no way out except by repentence and good deeds. So, one could say, given his current stance on things, that he is beyond redemption, but this is according to our limited human understanding. And, no I would not force him to eat pork. This would give him some sort of dignity, however twisted. People would see this 'Look they're punishing a Muslim', which he is NOT. Though many here may have realized this truth, the majority of the World is made up of nothing more than mind-less sheep, following wahtever the media tells them to believe or their leaders 'inform' them of. Besides, how would one lead him to realizing the truth of his crimes with such a punishment? It would just drive him into a frenzy, IMHO. He would not admit to his sins and would probably just use the punsihments to gain media attention. Just hang him and get it over with. Let's not have this turn into another O.J. Simpson case, or as I like to call it 'The Modern American Justice System at Work'. Shariah law should take precedence and be carried out, as Iraq is an IslamIC nation. So, I would just have him hung. Though I do not rejoice in the death of any person, there must be consequences for one's actions, however strict they may be. As for 'celebrating his death', that's all semantics to me.

See ya on the flipside, :uberfightmonk:

Cyon Corell

[Queen Swanwhite]

I gotta agree with Ephinie that it is disturbing for anyone, let alone little children, to find glee over anyone's death. I know Saddam is as bad as they come ... but shouldn't there just be mourning over the way he lived his life, and the way he now has to die for it? It's a sad situation all around. I can't see anyone finding joy in it, even if it has to be done.

All I can think is his life and crimes so demoralized his people as to poison the culture in such a way that one more death seems like a reason to celebrate. That's horrible.

I agree with you, but I do think that Saddam Hussain was a very evil man, who deserves to die, because of the, probably millions that he has killed. What else should his death bring? It's freeing a country of harsh rules and murder. I do think it is wrong to "celebrate" his death, but I am not about to feel sorry for him.

[tottyfruitty]

they shouldnt kill him!they should send him to prison for life!!! death is probably what he wants cos then he wont go through the apin of being beaten up ro who knows what in prison

[DeviaAngelus]

I think he should go to prison and suffer for his misdeeds! He is obviously a very twisted man and definately has NO RIGHT to call himself a Muslim.

[Samwise Gamgee]

Thing is: Why do most of you want him, the most dangrous criminal to go prisson? Eh I don't get that at all. He needs to die that is what he needs to do.

[tottyfruitty]

we should not determine who lives or dies! we are not God! besides if he goes to prison he will suffer way! more than if he dies!

[Samwise Gamgee]

I am just saying that he needs to. I am not desiding any thing at all. He is a mean man and a muderer at most. And to many he dose not need to live in prisson. All those inasent people did not need to die, he muderer them and they did nothing at all. Saddam did horid crimes and they don't need to go unpunished at all. But that is what I say.

[tottyfruitty]

i know! and i totally agree with you 100% but think about it he would live a horrid life on earth*you know what kind of cruel stuff they do to people in prison* and then he would eventually die and have an even worse time!

[Samwise Gamgee]

I hate knowing that some one is rotting in prison. Even a mad man and an evil on at that. :( It just that if they are dead some times I feel better kowing that they are not going even more madder in there.

[Parthian King]

Now, this is why I disagree with that line of reasoning: Vengeance and seeing someone miserable by human standards is not the point, whether by life or by death. The point is justice. We human beings would not have a clue if it were not for God's having revealed it. The Bible and the Quran are in agreement that murder is justly met with capital punishment. Not gleeful capital punishment, not dancing on the grave or shrilling the tongue or making T-shirts, just doing it quickly and soberly in the fear of God so all might know this is the end of such actions. God has endowed human governments with the authority to do such as agents of His wrath on earth, if only that far.

As for God's final justice, we would all do well to hope and pray we don't get what we deserve as we think about Saddam getting what he deserves. For Christians, Jesus died so we don't get what we deserve, but rather what He deserved--paradise. I heard two politicians--one Republican and one Democrat--both talking about the special place in Hell reserved for Saddam. That kind of talk chills me--not for Saddam so much as for those who spoke it. I know Saddam is a sinner, and a particularly bad one by all accounts. But I am fearful to speak of the place in Hell reserved for another. Without Jesus' blood washing my sins, there's a place there for me, too. On this side of glory I'd rather keep my mouth shut and cling to the Cross, thank you very much. From where I stand, the torment of another sinner is a subject more than a little bit too high for me.

And God have mercy on us all.

[tottyfruitty]

lol death is not the answer for everyhting! especially not for this man!

[Cyon Corell]

If anyone here has read Plato's dialogue titled 'Euthyphro' one might remember the statement 'what is pious is always just, but what is just is not always pious'. Thus the Justice we seek to enact may not fall within the limits of individual morality. Hence while I would never murder a person in cold blood, so to speak, the execution of a KNOWN criminal could be considered allowable, in accordance with the greater needs of the community. Hence while it may or may not fall outside the limits of individual morality, it WOULD fall within the limits of the greater morality of the community, known more commonly by the name Justice. Just my two cents on that, added to my two dollars already accrued ;) .

See ya on the flipside, :uberfightmonk:

Cyon Corell

[tottyfruitty]

lol interesting point.

[Cyon Corell]

Thanks. On to my next point, it's not like those who convicted him nor those carry out the punishment are the offenders here. They're just doing what's necessary to protect society as a whole from psychopaths like Sadaam. If he hadn't committed the crime, noone would have to decide whether or not a man named Sadaam Hussein from a small Iraqi village named Tikrit had to die by hanging or not. No crime committed = no judgement to be made or punishment to be metted out

See ya on the flipside, :uberfightmonk:

Cyon Corell

[tottyfruitty]

but why do they have to decide wether he dies or not! i mean that is what prisons are built for right.

[Samwise Gamgee]

Because G-d gave them some form of power like that. They rule it and so is so. I nor you have the power to over rule it as kids. G-d put the answer in the Juries minds to do that verdict.

[Parthian King]

I agree, Cyon. I see those who judge and execute Saddam as agents of God's wrath in the general sense (i.e., it doesn't mean they are good people necessarily, just that they are playing a role in orderly society that God has ordained).

At the same time, there is no contradiction in mourning the waste of a human life. I saw something about his life this morning, and how his mother tried to commit suicide out of depression even while pregnant with him. That's a pretty lousy start to a lifetime, even if it doesn't excuse his sins. I am thankful that in eternal matters, I am not his judge.

[tottyfruitty]

so well you could say then that murderers who kill rapists are doing it in Gods will.

[Samwise Gamgee]

I don't know. I think that they too are gulity as charged with what ever. We are all gulity of something and it dose not have to be such highly noticable sin either...if you ask me I think in G-ds eyes we should all be punished but we are not.

[Parthian King]

so well you could say then that murderers who kill rapists are doing it in Gods will.

Wrong. That is a distortion of what capital punishment is about. If you disagree with capital punishment, at least disagree with what it really is instead of setting up a distortion of it so you can make those who agree with it look absurd.

Capital punishment as set forth in the Judeo-Christian Scripures (and as far as I can tell, the Quran) is carried out by the authorities in a society after they have examined the evidence against someone. Above all, capital punishment applies to murderers, and this view goes back to what God said to Noah after the Flood, though it is repeated throughout the Torah and even into the New Testament for Christians. Nowhere is it allowed for someone to take it upon themselves to decide if someone else deserves death. Moses required a duly appointed court and two or three reliable witnesses to testify.

There's big difference between that and a vigilante choosing who does or doesn't deserve to live. But this is not on topic, really, with Saddam.

And one final note: The idea of prison being a final punishment for a crime is a relatively new idea. Up until recently, prison was always someplace you passed through on the way to either corporal punishment or death.

[tottyfruitty]

*is confuzzled* i think i get what you are saying! i see your point but i still dont think he should be killed but you have a good point too.

[Samwise Gamgee]

.........................dot dot dot any ways what ever it is desided and that is that.

[Aravis Kenobi]

As a Christian, this may sound cruel and heartless, but I believe he should be put through some of the things that he put innocent people through. He deserves it, but though he's sentenced, God's still waiting with His arms open wide ready to pour forth forgiveness and love. Though I believe that God's already forgiven him. I just don't think that this should be made an issue. It's the Iraqi people's decisions, not ours. They did justice, so let them alone.

[Parthian King]

Understand me here, folks. I could just as easily change hats and argue against capital punishment for a variety of reasons. There are problems with it in the modern world. If you feel strongly that Saddam (or anyone else) should not be punished by death, I personally disagree, but I appreciate your tenderness of heart (though I feel it misdirected) and support your freedom to see things that way. I just want you to understand what you are rejecting. Capital punishment in its "pure" form (rarely seen, I admit) has nothing to do with human vengeance or vigilantism. It has everything to do with recognizing what justice is. Ironically, it has to do with recognizing how sacred life is--if you kill human life, your life is forfeit. The Scriptures basically argue, "If we let murderers live, we cheapen life by reducing murder to the level of any other crime like theft or corruption. But if we make murder punishable by death itself, and administer that punishment carefully by a group of community leaders, we communicate how precious life is, and that only God has the right to take life by individual decision."

[Olórin the Wise]

I agree, Parthian King. I am personally for capital punishment when it is required, but only when it is meted out by the proper authority. As you say, there is a big difference between a judge condemning you to death and a vigilante deciding that you don't deserve to live. Saddam has caused millions of deaths, it just seems right that he should die as well. That being said, I have nothing against the people who believe capital punishment is wrong - everyone's entitled to an opinion.

[SOS~]

I thought about posting this in the thread about capital punishment or in the War in Iraq thread... but then I thought, nah, let's make it its own thread.

So I heard on the news that Saddam was sentenced to death by hanging. Not very surprising, eh?

They showed some footage of a group of children dancing around and shouting joyfully . How sad is it when little children get excited about you being sentenced to death? Poor guy.
Not that he doesn't deserve it, of course. He seems pretty arrogant as well, even now. They said he started shouting at the judge and refused to stand up to hear his sentencing. But still... I just can't get past this idea of small children being happy about a man's death.


Awsome!!!!!! :D

[NarnianPrincess]

So what do you mean? I mean, America and the UK are in a war with Iraq, should they kill the terrorist's children and wifes? Heavens no! I didn't say that! (besides, they kill their own women and children, we don't have to!) What I'm saying is that God always had Israel detroy their enemies. Justice is "Personal responcibility to God's unchanging laws."

Capital Punishment is taking someone's life. I believe in second chances. He's got a second chance, he has from now until he's sent to hell to repent and beg forgiveness. It's taken too long as it is, if he were going to repent, he probably would have by now.
I mean, we all deserve to die, if we look at ourselves, we are all sinners, and we are all unable to face God by ourselves, we all need Jesus. Let's say i murdered someone (i didn't, but just for the example), and i'll ask God for forgiveness, i think that he will forgive me if i truly mean it.
If i murdered someone, and i'll be killed by capital punishment, i might not have the chance to ask God for forgiveness. I know, you always have a chance, but isn't God the one who should decide about who lives and who doesn't?
He still gives man free will, and if you were to kill someone, you would deserve to die by the law of the land.
Look at it this way, if you lived in the Old West you were lucky to get a trial before the necktie party, now if you get a bleeding heart judge and a good lawyer, you might be able to live out the rest of your days playing golf and watching TV in a minimal security prison.

[LifeMaiden]

And if you saw the news today, his execution may be months or longer. Plus the fact that the Sunni muslims who supported Saddam are going to cause all sorts of problems before and after his execution if it does happen. There are many world leaders that are upset with the sentencing. The appeals process is underway. And Saddam is yet to be tried for his killing of the Kurds using biological weapons. So we'll see if it really happens.

Saddam has escaped execution before and come back to rule Iraq. I could happen again if we aren't careful


He's a very clever and manipulative guy. But at heart a coward, like all dictators. The guy was hiding, remember that, when they came for him. Why is this taking so long to hang him?!

[Driad54]

[QUOTE=Aslan13]You don't know how long us millitary kids have waited for this man to get this sentnce. It brings joy to us because that means the war is one step tords bieng done!QUOTE]

I'll agree to that ;)


Being put to death by hanging is punishment in itself. Just the prospect of thinking, gee I have only 30 or less days to live. Scares ya alot I'm sure. Though it is a just and right punishment, because they have brought it upon themselves, sure the judges have the power to sentence him to it, but the bottom line is, actions have consequences and he was willing to risk the bad ones. It makes you think what hes thinking right now...is he going to be an arrogant SoB or is he going to think that maybe he should repent. Death brings us to new levels of our mind and brings out emotions we never thought we had. I'm sure to you who disprove fo the death sentence, it seems morally wrong and sadistic, but for me and others who the support the idea, can argue that the only immoral action that taken was the recipient.

[LifeMaiden]

I'm going to be dead honest here..I don't think Saddam Hussein is ever going to repent. That's just my opinion.

[WonderBoy]

But when you think about it,hanging isn't all that bad, (considering what they could do to him) And if he went to prison then the people would have to pay for his cell with there tax's. And also now that hes going to die, the war should end sooner. (Are family is Ret. Air Force and we have a friend in Iraq right now. luckily he didn't go to Baghdad! :) )

[*IOWW the Iasc*]

I know it' bad to say it, but, he had it coming.
Like Michelle said, he was never going to repent. If anything, he would have caused more pain, still. Even if he was in jail. Ia most wish there was a way we could punish him for every life he destroyed...but, there isn't.

[DeviaAngelus]

Still, murder, even if it is right, is still a sin against Allah. Or is it okay when the guy comdemned to death caused nearly as much death and fear as the holocaust...?

[Queen Swanwhite]

we should not determine who lives or dies! we are not God! besides if he goes to prison he will suffer way! more than if he dies!

No, he didn't give people life sentences in prison. He murdered them. Hundreds of thousands of people. I think that prison is not the answer. He deserves to die, because he is such an evil man, who murdered lots of people. Believe me, he will suffer more in Hell than in prison.

[Shadow Hawk]

I agree.

and eventually it will get worst, because he training other to take his place.

[Samwise Gamgee]

RIGHT ON! But I have to say when I watched about 9/11 this year they went back to 1997 when he declard war on us. IT WAS SCARY!

[Shadow Hawk]

Yes, but it's true the world is at war. and maybe for a long time

[*Princess Rose*]

Well, all I can say is, at least hes gonna be gone.

[Driad54]

I never said he doesn't deserve what he has coming, what I meant (maybe I said it the wrong way) was that you wonder whats going on in his head, maybe he realizes what he had done is wrong, and repent for it, b/c death opens our eyes, maybe it may have opened his. And I'm not saying if he repents he should be excused, no, never, he should be demoralized and tortured, but it does make you think if he says he's sorry in the end, what will God say to that?

[Queen Swanwhite]

I never said he doesn't deserve what he has coming, what I meant (maybe I said it the wrong way) was that you wonder whats going on in his head, maybe he realizes what he had done is wrong, and repent for it, b/c death opens our eyes, maybe it may have opened his. And I'm not saying if he repents he should be excused, no, never, he should be demoralized and tortured, but it does make you think if he says he's sorry in the end, what will God say to that?

I think, if he truly means it, he will be forgiven, but he won't be forgiven for blasphemy, which I think he has done. Saddam Hussein is an evil man, and I don't think he is about to repent, but yes, if he means it he will, but blasphemy? You can't get around that.