What is beauty?

[Featherlightheart]

I saw this on another forum and thought i would try it out here.
What do you think beauty is??

[LifeMaiden]

The most beautiful things in the world cannot be SEEN, or ADMIRED....they must be FELT IN THE HEART

Beauty comes from within, not from the outside.

That which enchants is said to deceive.

[Featherlightheart]

I agree beauty is not something you see immediatly!!!!!

[Miss.SunFlower]

what you are like on the inside is your beauty.

[-Daughter of Eve-]

Beauty for me is something on the INSIDE,not the OUTSIDE.What's inside a person is way more important than what he or she LOOKS like.

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

there are types of beauty, but the kind that is the most important is on the inside. But that doesn't mean that the beauty on the outside doesn't play a part in impressions. . . I hate how today's society is based on looks. . . . It sux, beacuse I am overwieght and am totally ugly!

[Featherlightheart]

Hey im worse but dont let it bug you!!!!!!!!!I hat today too because you think no one will, like you because of how you look and no one seems to understand thats not important!!!!

[The First Joke]

when i initially think of beuty, i think that it is your face and if it's hairy or not. but when i hear stuff like "that's the beauty of it" when someone is talking about something, i think it is some sort of appeal to something or something that makes that thing unique.

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/black_stallion/yeah/DSC001921.jpg

This is me. . . Big honker. . . . UGLY ME!!!

[-Daughter of Eve-]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/black_stallion/yeah/DSC001921.jpg

This is me. . . Big honker. . . . UGLY ME!!!

OMG! You're gorgeous! :eek: How can you say you're ugly?! You should just see me then!

[Afton]

The most beautiful things in the world cannot be SEEN, or ADMIRED....they must be FELT IN THE HEART

Beauty comes from within, not from the outside.

That which enchants is said to deceive.
I agree.Beauty comes from the heart and within...

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

That's not a good pic though. . . http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/black_stallion/EastCoastTripSummer2006366.jpg

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/black_stallion/EastCoastTripSummer2006408.jpg

YAY! me in all my splendid uglyness! (I went to NYC, and Boston!)

[Featherlightheart]

Youre really pretty!!!!!!!Dont ever say you arent because i have done that since i can remember and now im kind of always sad!!!!!Not that i really care what people think but today is all about what you look like!!!

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

I don't really care what others think, but there's something validating in people saying that your pretty; I am kind of a narsisistic person. . .

[Afton]

no you look great!!dont say that....besides if you dont think you look pretty then think about this."Real beauty comes from within...not in looks or apperance.....you are the most radiant inside...

[Featherlightheart]

,whats narsistic?

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/black_stallion/William%20Moseley/menwil.gif

My friend says Will and I will beautiful babies! Tee Hee Hee! (unfortunatly this is photoshopped, but we look good together!)

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

,whats narsistic?

Someone who loves to looks at themselves and is totally self-centered.

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

I'll be back in a few hours, classes. . . Ugh. . .

[Lioness_Aslan]

The most beautiful things in the world cannot be SEEN, or ADMIRED....they must be FELT IN THE HEART

Beauty comes from within, not from the outside.

That which enchants is said to deceive.
Definatly agree with this. Look at the Beauty Within...

[Copperfox]

Big honker? What big honker? All I see is a nose that isn't a babyish little button.

I was going to comment on the inside/outside issue; but your picture caught my attention. Where is it written in stone that a woman is made ugly by having a strong nose? My first wife, now dwelling in Aslan's country, had a nose _very_ similar to yours, and I always considered her a natural beauty. A strong nose can actually be an advantage, because one of the worst things that happen to the human face with aging is a caving-in of the center of the face. A strong, protruding nose can resist this collapse, preventing the skull-like look that often happens at an advanced age.

Even _apart_ from the inner beauty of your spirit, thinking ONLY of the visual effect I get when seeing your picture _without_ knowing you personally, I honestly consider you to be a pretty girl. Cheer up, and NEVER throw away good money on cosmetic surgery when you look just fine as you are! Since I am a married man and a grandfather, NOT some boy trying to get you interested in me, you can count on me to have no reason to lie about this. If I _were_ an unattached boy in your age group, I see no reason why I would not be attracted to you.

Joseph Ravitts
(pronounced RAY-vitts)

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

Thank you. don't worry, I have better things to spend my money on than plastic surgery.

[*Princess Rose*]

Beauty is from the heart: no where else.

[Lila]

When I think of beauty, I imagine Jesus Christ.

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

I think of all the creatures that God has made for us.

[Tsukiko]

I think Beauty can be on the outside also...inside as well.

[SOS~]

I know people say this all the time but beauty is whats inside of you.


But thats not going to change peoples thoughts of looks.

[oxford girl]

I think beauty should radiate(sp?) from the inside out.

[LifeMaiden]

Thank you. don't worry, I have better things to spend my money on than plastic surgery.


I had plastic surgery, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[Queen Swanwhite]

Well...beauty is within. When you see someone walking down the street or see a picture of them are they are absolutley beautiful. But, when you start talking to them they could be the most arrogant, self centered person you could ever meet in your life, which could, drastically, take away all of the beauty from them, leaving them with only a pretty face. Meanwhile, you could meet someone on the street who, unfortunatly, might not be the prettiest thing around, but when you start chatting, their personality could shine and they would be more beautiful than the first person. Beauty comes from within. :)

[LifeMaiden]

Big honker? What big honker? All I see is a nose that isn't a babyish little button.

I was going to comment on the inside/outside issue; but your picture caught my attention. Where is it written in stone that a woman is made ugly by having a strong nose? My first wife, now dwelling in Aslan's country, had a nose _very_ similar to yours, and I always considered her a natural beauty. A strong nose can actually be an advantage, because one of the worst things that happen to the human face with aging is a caving-in of the center of the face. A strong, protruding nose can resist this collapse, preventing the skull-like look that often happens at an advanced age.

Even _apart_ from the inner beauty of your spirit, thinking ONLY of the visual effect I get when seeing your picture _without_ knowing you personally, I honestly consider you to be a pretty girl. Cheer up, and NEVER throw away good money on cosmetic surgery when you look just fine as you are! Since I am a married man and a grandfather, NOT some boy trying to get you interested in me, you can count on me to have no reason to lie about this. If I _were_ an unattached boy in your age group, I see no reason why I would not be attracted to you.

Joseph Ravitts
(pronounced RAY-vitts)



First of all though, cosmetic surgery is not a bad thing in itself, only when it's overdone. I've known people who have had serious psychological complications because of something they found they wanted to fix, and once they did, it did wonders for them.


The essense of true beauty IS found on the inside, just as I said. Personality, warmth, inner love, and love for others is what is everlasting, because our physical selves aren't AS meaningful as our inner selves or our hearts.

However, this is not to say that we can't do something or want to do something about what's on the outside. Letting yourself get obese, not taking a bath, and not at least taking some measure of caring in the way that you look is offensive to me, and I'm not going to lie. There's also a thing called psychological and physical health. I've had cosmetic surgery and I'm happy I did it...I wouldn't ever tell someone 'don't get your nose done' if they really felt that's what they wanted to do.

Criticizing people who have had cosmetic procedures is pretty stupid, because if it makes them happy in the long run, it shouldn't matter to others what they spend their money on. I plan to get more cosmetic surgery in the future because I don't want my face to slide into my armpits when I'm 50.

[LifeMaiden]

Well...beauty is within. When you see someone walking down the street or see a picture of them are they are absolutley beautiful. But, when you start talking to them they could be the most arrogant, self centered person you could ever meet in your life, which could, drastically, take away all of the beauty from them, leaving them with only a pretty face. Meanwhile, you could meet someone on the street who, unfortunatly, might not be the prettiest thing around, but when you start chatting, their personality could shine and they would be more beautiful than the first person. Beauty comes from within. :)


I'd like to think that I could find both in a man. I don't want someone who doesn't give a hoot about his hygiene or his weight. But neither do I want someone so vain and self-centered that they lack inner beauty. You do see a lot of that arrogance in people who think they're 'better' than someone else just because they might look good. What matters is how you treat others.


Also, in terms of physical beauty, these things vary WIDELY from culture to culture, and society to society. In Burma, there's a group of people who think that very long necks are beautiful, and they use those brass ring things to elongate the neck like a giraffe. In Africa, some tribes admire lip plates and hanging earlobes. In America, we prefer more classical features, and often times, blonde hair and blue eyes. Polynesian and Latin cultures prefer fuller figured women.

So because each culture is different, there is no real set standard of physical beauty.

But the measure of inner beauty I think would be the same everywhere...be kind, be warm, be loving, be YOU.
I

[Queen Swanwhite]

I'd like to think that I could find both in a man. I don't want someone who doesn't give a hoot about his hygiene or his weight. But neither do I want someone so vain and self-centered that they lack inner beauty. You do see a lot of that arrogance in people who think they're 'better' than someone else just because they might look good. What matters is how you treat others.

I know...I'm just giving an extreme example. And yes, obviously men can/are beautiful. When people look really good, and they know it, then yes there is nearly always a bit more vanity and arrogance than your average person. This thread is about beauty. I never said you should treat the pretty person differently to the not so pretty person, did I?

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

I had plastic surgery, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Why? I'm sure your pretty . . .

[Natasia_Vae]

I think beauty is what's on the outside and it's character that's on the inside. I wouldn't confuse character with beauty though.
Beauty doesn't have a set definition, it's an opinion and anyone can be beautiful to someone else.

[broken.]

I think that almost anything has a quality of beauty to it. I don't consider myself a beautiful person by any means, but I see so much beauty in all of my friends...it's something that comes from the inside, from thier spirit, and is reflected on the outside. I think that's why I'm friends with so many different types of people, because I can see the beauty in everyone and not just a certain type of person.

[Parthian King]

I think beauty is what's on the outside and it's character that's on the inside. I wouldn't confuse character with beauty though. Beauty doesn't have a set definition, it's an opinion and anyone can be beautiful to someone else.

Lewis has some interesting things to say about beauty in Mere Christianity. He appeals to it as a proof for the existence of God, adapting the "moral argument" into what might be called the "aesthetic argument." If I may paraphrase, his idea is that if we present an image of the, say, a red maple in all its autumn glory on a verdant lawn at sunset, then contrast it with (perhaps) a burned stump thrown into a fetid swamp, well, the vast majority would remark that the first, and not the second is beautiful.

From this Lewis extrapolates that the divine spark, the imago dei in each person is what awakes upon seeing and judging the glorious maple (or other beautiful things) as beautiful. Beauty in the natural world, then, is the shadow of a deeper spiritual reality--it is a reminder of the eternal beauty of the Creator whom we are meant to serve.

Based upon this idea, for Lewis beauty is not entirely in the eye of the beholder. On the other hand, in The Screwtape Letters he remarks that the tendecny to idealize that type of feminine beauty which is nearly always infertile (or rather, drives women to distort their own body image and thereby become infertile) is diabolical, plain and simple. As a student of art history, I always find it interesting to see the Renaissance depictions of the great beauties of old (Helen, the Queen of Sheba, the Sibyls, or even the goddesses): They are thick-bodied, opulent figures, and the idealization of the ultra-thin today would have been foreign to the masters. A simple glance at some old Marilyn Monroe photos will reveal how much the ideal has shifted in the last 40 years. In other words, ideals of human beauty (particularly feminine beauty) change with time. The question is, what is the relation to these societal manipulations that make life so hard for people (especially the sisters among us), and the absolute Beauty that is our Beloved, and is reflected in creation?

[LifeMaiden]

I know...I'm just giving an extreme example. And yes, obviously men can/are beautiful. When people look really good, and they know it, then yes there is nearly always a bit more vanity and arrogance than your average person. This thread is about beauty. I never said you should treat the pretty person differently to the not so pretty person, did I?


But at the same time, it's strange how, when someone compliments a pretty woman, or a girl, and I see this time and time again on this forum in the Post a Pic section, a girl almost always responds, " No, I'm not pretty, " or even worse, " I'm ugly." Why not just say " Thank you for complimenting me?" Being aware of being beautiful doesn't necessarily mean a person is going to be stuck up about it. It's one of the last sins about being a beautiful woman...to 'know' or be 'aware' one looks good. Of course, it depends on how this person responds to others. You said this thread is about beauty. You didn't say which kind of beauty...beauty is mental, emotional and physical.


And sadly, at times, a pretty woman IS the object of mean remarks or jealousy from other women.

[LifeMaiden]

Why? I'm sure your pretty . . .


Because there's nothing wrong with plastic surgery. If there's something you want to change and you have the means to do it, and it means a lot to the person, then why not go for cosmetic surgery? I had breast implants, and I'm extremely happy with them. And trust me, it had nothing to do with wanting to measure up to a man's idea that a woman should have huge breasts. And, I think there's this misconception about women who HAVE had surgery of that sort or others to think she's vain or spending her money foolishly. It isn't anyone else's business what someone does to their body with their money. I would question the extremity of someone as sad as Michael Jackson, but I wouldn't question why someone wanted a few things done. I mean look at Extreme Makeover. These people had their entire lives tranformed by surgery. I'm happy for them!

And yes, I believe I am pretty...I take the time to look good and that's part of my profession as a personal trainer. I really appreciate the compliments but I'm also wise enough to know that physical beauty is also fleeting. When I'm old and gray, what will always matter is my intelligence and my kindness.

[Aravis Kenobi]

As so many others have said, true beauty comes from the heart. If you're outrageoulsy beautiful on the outside, but ugly on the inside, no one once they get to know you will think of you as beautiful anymore. I have two friends, greatest girls that God has ever blessed me with next to my mom and sister. They're not physically beautiful, but what makes me attracted to them is their inner qualities. They're God girls all the way. They mean more to me than the most beautiful supermodel ever could. Let me put it another way: if all a guy notices are your outward beauty, what will happen if you two get married and you grow old together? That beauty just might fade with time. If a guy looks at your inner beauty, that beauty will last for a lifetime. That's how I want my future husband to look at me. I've always told my friends: "Your Prince Charming is coming, and he'll be so lucky to rope you!" :)

[LifeMaiden]

That's why you wouldn't want to be with a man like Donald Trump who, it seems, cares more about his wife's outward appearance than SHE does. If he's that superficial and wants a trophy, which it's clear some wealthy men do, then that's his problem. I mean let's get real here. If it wasn't for his money, he'd be dateless.


PK talked about the shifting ideals of beauty from a voluptuous figure to a more slender shape. I've studied fashion and art, and I can say that there really isn't an ideal of beauty that 'shifts' through time...rather, ideals of physical beauty go in cycles, especially when it matches the fashion of the era. Throughout time, fashion for women has gone in cycles...the bell shaped wide skirt, down to a narrow silhouette. With the narrow silhouette, the ideal body type at the time then is thinner than what has come before that. During the Middle Ages, a slender form was in vogue because of the very narrow silhouette of the women's dress styles. As that faded out, the Renaissance bought in fuller figures AND fuller fashion shapes. Even in the 19th century, the Empire waist dresses required slender figures, and then the hoop skirt came into vogue. Then, once again, the shape began to narrow with the bustle, the Gibson Girl, and finally, the flapper dress, which definitely required a woman be flat-chested and boyish in figure. We see this over and over again.



Personally, I think being healthy and fit is more important than fitting ANY ideal of body type through the ages. I don't agree that a person should just let themselves go and accept obesity, or just not put ANY effort into being clean and attempting to put themselves together... as we seem to do in our society today, ( 'accept yourself the way you are even if you weigh 300 pounds').



We are living in an age when obesity in both children and adults has reached its highest point...and there are serious health risks and complications that go with it. I want to HELP people get fit. That doesn't mean they're gonna weigh 110 pounds like some skinny unfit supermodel, but it won't mean they're going to die in a hospital from diabetes and obesity-related complications I would hope.

[Touvre]

Is anyone familiar with The Half-Blood Prince's stories? I've never seen a better depiction of physical beauty.

Her jet black eyes glittered in the footlights of the stage like the stars above her head, her hair a velvet cascade as she danced. I felt undeserving as I looked upon the perfection of this angel, a girl who appeared faultless in both the grace of her dance and the beauty of her unrefined features. My hands dampened as they clutched the pad of paper resting on my knee. Although the rating sheet needed to be completed before the culmination of the performance, I wouldn’t have torn my eyes away from that angel even if an elephant had chosen that moment to rampage the auditorium wall. The girl pranced to the center of the soundstage, beaming in the azure lights. Under the spotlight, she looked so impeccably angelic that I felt the breath leave my lungs as I gazed at her flawless form, matching the harmony of the orchestra with the elegance of a swan. The happenings of the auditorium seemed to fade away to a blur around her—but then I realized that the stage lights were dimming.

[LifeMaiden]

Beauty from within will show on the outside. A positive attitude, a warm smile, a friendly personality...those things people DO notice right away. What I can't stand is when someone sees someone who looks good, and then AUTOMATICALLY assumes they're going to be stuck up. And we also all know how catty and competitive women can be. It's really sad.

[Aravis Kenobi]

Yeah, how many wives has Trump this year anyway? :p I notice my friend's warmth immediately. If I was a stranger, I'd want to be her best friend because of her attitude. That's the kind of person who should draw you to Christ if we're talking strictly Christian. Just using that as an example.

[LifeMaiden]

I just hope there's steak nachos in heaven, that's all I can say. ;) I'd like to think up there, we won't gain an ounce.

[*fifth_pevensie*]

Beauty is spirit and love. It's something that comes from the inside but shows on the outside. Every rock, tree, plant, creature, and everybody has a spirit. People might say that a lot but it doesn't hurt ot have the truth said more than once.

[Parthian King]

LM, you are correct, of course when it comes to the pendulum effect of societal perceptions regarding the feminine ideal. Even as I think of some rather robust beauties of Tintoretto and Tatian, I can also think of some more lithe images from other masters. Yet the point stands, i.e., the ideal of personal beauty is something that moves and changes (albeit in cycles), and this stands in contrast to Lewis' idea of an absolute beauty being not only a reality, but a glimpse of the Reality--the One who changes not. My question aboutt he relation of the two was not rhetorical, but serious. I personally don't have the relation between those two worked out yet.

And incidentally, I agree that health and fitness is at least a pretty fair starting point for determining personal human beauty. It is just sad to me how many young women pursue an image of fitness (i.e., being thin at all costs) rather than making the lifestyle changes you teach and resting in their body types. Our society really is very cruel on that point.

I read a great story called ""The Last Ugly Person" (http://www.amazon.com/Last-Ugly-Person-Other-Stories/dp/0898703956/sr=8-1/qid=1162002662/ref=sr_1_1/002-9038713-1318403?ie=UTF8&s=books), the title story in an anthology of short stories by the same name.

The author's a great guy, too. :)

[brightlywound]

The most beautiful things in the world cannot be SEEN, or ADMIRED....they must be FELT IN THE HEART

Beauty comes from within, not from the outside.

That which enchants is said to deceive.


that honestly is the most amazing and heartfelt answer I've ever heard!!! :D

[LifeMaiden]

I was annoyed earlier in this thread regarding physical beauty ( what, Michelle, annoyed?? LOL) for the reason that there's a new lady I'm starting to train. I don't train anyone who's getting in shape for anyone else BUT THEMSELVES. Ultimately the decision to be healthy and feel good about oneself rests with their own hearts. But this lady's family isn't being very supportive. She's overweight by at least 100 pounds. They're telling her, " Mom, you should just love yourself. You're being too vain. Who cares if you're overweight." The thing is, her ENTIRE family is overweight. I think if they realized how good they'd feel too, by working out, they'd get involved. More importantly, I'm hoping that when they see their mother feeling good and having more energy, they'll see they're not just accusing her of vanity.


My point was that wanting to feel good and look good is not a bad thing as long as you're doing it for yourself.





In truth the most beautiful moments in my own life have been felt. Times when I'm with my family and enjoying their company, sharing laughter with a friend, being in church, and most importantly, asking forgiveness for my sins after years of fear that I would never be forgiven by God. In that chapel, in that moment that I asked forgiveness and wept tears that I didn't think would cease to end, just a short while ago at a spiritual retreat, was the most beautiful moment of my life.

[Reepicheep the Mouse]

I was annoyed earlier in this thread regarding physical beauty ( what, Michelle, annoyed?? LOL) for the reason that there's a new lady I'm starting to train. I don't train anyone who's getting in shape for anyone else BUT THEMSELVES. Ultimately the decision to be healthy and feel good about oneself rests with their own hearts. But this lady's family isn't being very supportive. She's overweight by at least 100 pounds. They're telling her, " Mom, you should just love yourself. You're being too vain. Who cares if you're overweight." The thing is, her ENTIRE family is overweight. I think if they realized how good they'd feel too, by working out, they'd get involved. More importantly, I'm hoping that when they see their mother feeling good and having more energy, they'll see they're not just accusing her of vanity.


My point was that wanting to feel good and look good is not a bad thing as long as you're doing it for yourself.





In truth the most beautiful moments in my own life have been felt. Times when I'm with my family and enjoying their company, sharing laughter with a friend, being in church, and most importantly, asking forgiveness for my sins after years of fear that I would never be forgiven by God. In that chapel, in that moment that I asked forgiveness and wept tears that I didn't think would cease to end, just a short while ago at a spiritual retreat, was the most beautiful moment of my life.

like i said in another thread: self-control is a character we all need to have. however, when my parents talk about beauty, they always remind me and my sibs that "beauty is of the heart."

man's way of defining beauty would probably be like "she has such a lovely face" or "his body shape is perfect! (lol)" or "she is soooo thin....wish i could be like that...."

always remember, WHILE MAN LOOKS AT THE OUTSIDE APPEARANCE, GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART!

[Lady Chloe]

Very true..... God knows how beautiful we are on the inside, and that's what counts.... :D

[office]

I think to be beautiful it means that you are a kind and good person.

[Natasia_Vae]

Has anyone read the book Uglies? It's about a place in the future where everyone is called an ugly until at a certain age they undergo a surgery that transforms them into a pretty. Uglies is the first in a trilogy. In the book the protagonist's friend decides she doesn't want to be a pretty and that she's okay with how she looks already. It's a very good book.

[LifeMaiden]

There was a book I read once by an Englishwoman named Lucy Grealy...I forgot what it was called though...but it was a very touching memoir about a young lady in the UK who suffered from bone cancer, a very rare form of cancer of the jaw. She had many surgeries as a child and endured such cruelty from others...adults as well as children, who taunted her for the way she looked. Eventually, she did get her jaw repaired through extensive cosmetic surgery, and the cancer was put in remission. But here was a woman who had the most beautiful heart and soul.

Do you guys remember that story Hunchback of Notre Dame? There's a scene in there where the crowd taunts and torments the deformed bellringer, and only one person stands out to give him water and be kind to him. That's like, my all time favorite Disney movie, the 1996 Hunchback of Notre Dame. :)

[Son of Adam]

Beauty is found by looking and everything and everyone through the eyes of God who declared, "It is very good!"

[Queen Swanwhite]

But at the same time, it's strange how, when someone compliments a pretty woman, or a girl, and I see this time and time again on this forum in the Post a Pic section, a girl almost always responds, " No, I'm not pretty, " or even worse, " I'm ugly." Why not just say " Thank you for complimenting me?" Being aware of being beautiful doesn't necessarily mean a person is going to be stuck up about it. It's one of the last sins about being a beautiful woman...to 'know' or be 'aware' one looks good. Of course, it depends on how this person responds to others. You said this thread is about beauty. You didn't say which kind of beauty...beauty is mental, emotional and physical.


And sadly, at times, a pretty woman IS the object of mean remarks or jealousy from other women.

Yeah, I said that beauty came from the inside. People have different perspectives of who or what is beautiful. I'm saying that SOME women can be beautiful on the outside, but not on the inside. That is saying also that beauty is in the inside.

[Copperfox]

Well, I think we have a clear majority in favor of inside beauty! Enough so, that I can allow myself to say this now:

As a matter of fact, I do like to see a woman who is beautiful on the OUTSIDE--and I don't mean ONLY above the neck, either. But as with Billy Crystal's line about an art museum in "City Slickers," my enjoyment of the sight does NOT mean that I am wishing to do anything wrong with that woman.

[LifeMaiden]

Well, I think we have a clear majority in favor of inside beauty! Enough so, that I can allow myself to say this now:

As a matter of fact, I do like to see a woman who is beautiful on the OUTSIDE--and I don't mean ONLY above the neck, either. But as with Billy Crystal's line about an art museum in "City Slickers," my enjoyment of the sight does NOT mean that I am wishing to do anything wrong with that woman.


It's perfectly okay for men to admire beauty on the outside in women...I do it too, and I'm not gay. If someone to me looks good I'll tell that woman or girl I think she's very pretty. A lot of times they never know what to say because it's pretty rare that another woman gives a woman a compliment.

Conversely for guys...there's a couple of these buffed guys at my gym who spend most of their time looking in the mirror at their own reflections. Their personalities are arrogant, rude, and misogynistic. I tore up one of these guys verbally the other day at the gym for making a mess at the drinking fountain, where he spit in it, blew snot in it, and threw his gym towel on the floor about three feet away from the bin where it says USED TOWELS. I picked up the towel, went up to him, told him if he minded cleaning his bacterial laden spit and snot from the drinking fountain SO OTHER PEOPLE could use it safely, and that if he wanted to throw towels on the floor, I was going to go out to his car and throw garbage on it, because that's essentially was he was doing to the gym...littering in it.

I went to the fountain, pointed out his mess, and made him rinse it out.


He then looked at my wedding finger and said, " Well I can see why you're not married, you're a total B***H." And I said, " You know why I'm single? So I can avoid rude, arrogant, men like yourself who think they look good, and have an ugly heart. Clean up that mess, or you'll regret it."

[broken.]

It's perfectly okay for men to admire beauty on the outside in women...I do it too, and I'm not gay. If someone to me looks good I'll tell that woman or girl I think she's very pretty. A lot of times they never know what to say because it's pretty rare that another woman gives a woman a compliment.

Conversely for guys...there's a couple of these buffed guys at my gym who spend most of their time looking in the mirror at their own reflections. Their personalities are arrogant, rude, and misogynistic. I tore up one of these guys verbally the other day at the gym for making a mess at the drinking fountain, where he spit in it, blew snot in it, and threw his gym towel on the floor about three feet away from the bin where it says USED TOWELS. I picked up the towel, went up to him, told him if he minded cleaning his bacterial laden spit and snot from the drinking fountain SO OTHER PEOPLE could use it safely, and that if he wanted to throw towels on the floor, I was going to go out to his car and throw garbage on it, because that's essentially was he was doing to the gym...littering in it.

I went to the fountain, pointed out his mess, and made him rinse it out.


He then looked at my wedding finger and said, " Well I can see why you're not married, you're a total B***H." And I said, " You know why I'm single? So I can avoid rude, arrogant, men like yourself who think they look good, and have an ugly heart. Clean up that mess, or you'll regret it."

That's amazing...good for you. :)

[~Grateful * Surrender~]

I haven’t read all the posts but here is my view on things. I think that beauty is a thing of the heart but also it can be outward. I think that if someone sees you only for what you look like that is wrong but you shouldn't let your body go to waist just for the sake of saying well my beauty is on the inside. we are to take care, and good care of our bodies and not in anyway abuse them. that is my personal take on beauty

[LifeMaiden]

I haven’t read all the posts but here is my view on things. I think that beauty is a thing of the heart but also it can be outward. I think that if someone sees you only for what you look like that is wrong but you shouldn't let your body go to waist just for the sake of saying well my beauty is on the inside. we are to take care, and good care of our bodies and not in anyway abuse them. that is my personal take on beauty


That's exactly how I feel. Yes, the essence of true beauty is in the heart and soul. However that's not to say we should not take care of ourselves... I won't go marrying or dating someone who doesn't AT LEAST take some measure of care about himself and is in shape, clean, and not look like Frankenstein. :D One thing I did notice was some guys really say stupid things about beautiful women ( when I say that I am talking about the outside). It's like, the other day, some old guy in the gym told me, " At one time my wife was as beautiful as you. But I'm too old now to want someone who looks like you." It was so stupid. I just smiled but I was like, I would never say something like that to a guy when I'm 60. " Well I wouldn't want someone as handsome as you anyways." Or " My ex husband was almost as good looking as you are now."

What's the purpose of saying something like that? It just sounds like stupid sour grapes when a man is like,"Well, I wouldn't want a woman who looks that good" or whatever. " You don't know that...if you met someone who was physically, mentally, and emotionally and spiritually beautiful versus someone who only had one of those things, you'd want to be with the person who has a good mix of everything. I know for a fact I'd never want to be with someone who stunk, who didn't keep a clean house, and who didn't work out.




Oh and speaking about beautiful people acting ugly....I had the tv on tonight and there it was " Supermodel Naomi Campbell beats up her drug counselor." This isn't the first time she's been known to lose her temper. A classic case of someone who acts and behaves in a very rude and unattractive manner. You hear about some celebrities all the time because of their not so pretty behavior.



In the long run, I'd like to say...people, take care of yourselves, but don't go overboard....just be a nice person, be kind, let your inner beauty show, and that's what is everlasting.

[WilliamMoseleyismine]

Because there's nothing wrong with plastic surgery. If there's something you want to change and you have the means to do it, and it means a lot to the person, then why not go for cosmetic surgery? I had breast implants, and I'm extremely happy with them. And trust me, it had nothing to do with wanting to measure up to a man's idea that a woman should have huge breasts. And, I think there's this misconception about women who HAVE had surgery of that sort or others to think she's vain or spending her money foolishly. It isn't anyone else's business what someone does to their body with their money. I would question the extremity of someone as sad as Michael Jackson, but I wouldn't question why someone wanted a few things done. I mean look at Extreme Makeover. These people had their entire lives tranformed by surgery. I'm happy for them!

And yes, I believe I am pretty...I take the time to look good and that's part of my profession as a personal trainer. I really appreciate the compliments but I'm also wise enough to know that physical beauty is also fleeting. When I'm old and gray, what will always matter is my intelligence and my kindness.

True. As long you're happy with yourself, you're off good!

[Miss Freckles]

my very own definition:

beauty is when somebody takes a photo of somebody else who is laughing at something else than the camera lense.

[Princess_Iliana]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. to you a picture that a year old created could be beautiful, or a masterpiece by an artist could be beautiful.
Its all what a person percieves and its different for every one.

[Mar]

i think beauty can be on the inside or outside, both if you're lucky.

[Mar]

It's perfectly okay for men to admire beauty on the outside in women...I do it too, and I'm not gay. If someone to me looks good I'll tell that woman or girl I think she's very pretty. A lot of times they never know what to say because it's pretty rare that another woman gives a woman a compliment.

Conversely for guys...there's a couple of these buffed guys at my gym who spend most of their time looking in the mirror at their own reflections. Their personalities are arrogant, rude, and misogynistic. I tore up one of these guys verbally the other day at the gym for making a mess at the drinking fountain, where he spit in it, blew snot in it, and threw his gym towel on the floor about three feet away from the bin where it says USED TOWELS. I picked up the towel, went up to him, told him if he minded cleaning his bacterial laden spit and snot from the drinking fountain SO OTHER PEOPLE could use it safely, and that if he wanted to throw towels on the floor, I was going to go out to his car and throw garbage on it, because that's essentially was he was doing to the gym...littering in it.

I went to the fountain, pointed out his mess, and made him rinse it out.


He then looked at my wedding finger and said, " Well I can see why you're not married, you're a total B***H." And I said, " You know why I'm single? So I can avoid rude, arrogant, men like yourself who think they look good, and have an ugly heart. Clean up that mess, or you'll regret it."
OMG. you are my hero!!!!!!!!! i could never do that! :eek:

[Princey]

I think beauty is what's on the inside. Er, I don't have anything else much to say lol.

[Sir Godfrey]

Beuty is everywhere, outside and within....

[Señor Puntos]

I saw this on another forum and thought i would try it out here.
What do you think beauty is??
Something that looks really good. Some people say beauty is within but that's not true, internal organs aren't too pretty.

[LifeMaiden]

Something that looks really good. Some people say beauty is within but that's not true, internal organs aren't too pretty.


I don't go much deeper than my own skin... I don't want to see the flesh and bones and muskles and stuff. :eek: :D

[Twilight]

Beauty, true beauty, is being a woman of Christ in every aspect. In other words, it is being patient, loyal, committed, hard-working, slow to anger, having integrity, having courage, being a friend to everyone, and overall just living for God. That's true beauty, not the kind of clothes you wear or how flawless your skin looks.

[ArrowsOfSilver]

Nothing is so beautiful that, under the right circumstances, it won't be ugly.
- Wilde.







And I agree. Nothing is truly beautiful, through and through. The secret to beauty in my book is acting like you are beautiful, therein others must treat you as such.

[Gryphon]

I get really tired when girls say "Oh, its okay, I'm pretty on the inside" or guys tell girls "It's what's on the INSIDE that counts" and while that's all romantic and crap, but what about outside beauty?

Our view of beauty is so skewed because of models being airbrushed to the point of being inhuman, TV shows and movies pushing women to be sexy and fit into size 0 pants, its just wrong, but there is a beauty that emanates to the outside as well.

You can be beautiful on the outside. Take care of yourself, be happy and dress modestly, people will think you are beautiful, inside AND out. :D

[LifeMaiden]

Well one of the long time members here said that being SLOVENLY ( sloth) is a whole different thing. But to me, it sort of goes hand in hand with upkeep of your body, mind and spirit. You don't have to be a great beauty physically, but at least try to keep in somewhat good shape, stay clean, brush your hair and teeth. Shiny hair, clear skin, a big smile, a good attitude. And no one ever said physical looks don't hurt a person as long as you're a good person.


Clearly, no one likes a filthy person...no matter how good looking on the outside. Like if I'm at church, and someone sitting by me really stinks, is dressed like a bum, or just is outright gross, then I have a problem with that. :D

But aside from our physical notions of beauty, I cannot emphasize enough that beauty is often what we do not see, and mostly what we truly feel, in the heart. When I see snowflakes falling from the sky on a silent night, I remember that more than the model I saw at the mall. When I see my cats at play, I remember that feeling of simple happiness more than the new lipstick I bought at the store.

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

It would be the sickest thing ever if I was just a tad bit translucent. Sickness indeed.

[Cris_DanRadcliffe]

What is beauty if the heart's empty?:D:D lol. Beauty cannot be seen outside, it is in the good heart which it truly dwells. Look at the nature for example, it has good functions and it's made by God, then if a heart has good thing inside, it is the beauty within that reflects who we truly are because it is our heart that tells everyone what are our intentions. And the heart defined who truly God is for us.

Err, did ye understand what I said?:p:p. Sorry bout that, I'm just too deep.

[Inkling]

John Keats writes, "Beauty is truth, truth beauty..."

So, how do we define beauty? What is beautiful? Where do we get our ideas of beauty?

[Cris_DanRadcliffe]

The Eye of The Beholder, hmmm that praise for me means like this : What are eyes for? For seeing? No only that, its for seeing the truth, the goodness. So if a beholder uses his eyes for a good sight and seeing goodness in people that is beauty which is a more important like having a clean soul than dirty one. Eyes reflects one soul, if we see the best of others and make them stay on that and be themselves, that's what I call beauty.

[Narborg]

The Eye of The Beholder, hmmm that praise for me means like this : What are eyes for? For seeing? No only that, its for seeing the truth, the goodness. So if a beholder uses his eyes for a good sight and seeing goodness in people that is beauty which is a more important like having a clean soul than dirty one. Eyes reflects one soul, if we see the best of others and make them stay on that and be themselves, that's what I call beauty.

hmmmm, they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but does this mean that beauty must be seen? Can we not hear beauty, or tast busty or feel beatuy?

[Solya]

Beauty lies in the soul of the beholder... and I think our souls can value different kinds of beauty and attach value to different kinds of beautiful things. I can find something ugly when it is something my soul places no value in, but I can find something beautiful when it is something my soul values a great deal. I can sense beauty in various ways, but it is always up to me to decide if something is beautiful or not.

[inkspot]

If beauty is truth, but beauty is subjective, then is truth also subjective?

[Copperfox]

In an age when we mustn't hurt anyone's feelings, everybody says that everybody is beautiful--which means that the _word_ "beautiful" can have no meaning except "existing."

I can go along to a considerable extent with beauty being in the mind. I have some female friends who are beautiful to me _entirely_ because of the inner character I know they have: notably one Patty Reimer of Illinois, a fine Christian lady who was a faithful friend to _both_ of my now-deceased wives. For me to see the outside of these women is to be reminded of their beautiful inside, so that no matter what they look like externally it's a pleasure to see them.

BUT...can I really expect an uninformed stranger to feel what I feel about my dear friend Ms. Reimer? No, I can't. Nor can I feel what that stranger feels about the inner character of someone whom he knows and I don't. So should there not be _some_ kind of _observable_ standard of physical beauty which CAN be held in common? Should there not be some rock-bottom basic attributes which simply ARE attractive or unattractive? Should there not be some reason why a man with the head of a frog and giant lobster claws on his ankles in place of feet is less pleasing to see than a normal man?

The loss of an agreed-upon concept of objectively visible--and thus _portrayable_--beauty, has done a little-understood kind of damage to the arts. Is it an accident that increased grotesqueness in the arts has accompanied the decline of a belief in universal moral laws? If art cannot portray the beautiful to an audience that understands, it is that much harder for art to portray what is noble and good. Franky Schaeffer, son of Dr. Francis Schaeffer, has written at least one book about the decay of the arts. If anyone can track it down, it may be worth reading.

[Cris_DanRadcliffe]

hmmmm, they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but does this mean that beauty must be seen? Can we not hear beauty, or tast busty or feel beatuy?

I dunno lol

[Knight of the Lion's Song]

Society has warped the word beauty. The minds of most people use sexy, hot, or fine as synonimous with beauty and that is positivly incorrect. Beauty a word of power. Society seems to be scared to use it, simply because of that power. Its power is that it cannot said without some truth to it. Every person is beautiful, at least in one way or another.

I do agree in that people are never a perfect image of beauty. A physically beautiful person may be as wretched, personally, as The White Witch. Or a person may have a heart of gold, but be the "ugly twin."

However beauty is a simple human thought and is only found in the preferance of the beholder. So I think beauty should be left as it is. A thought, impulse of attraction every human feels to any of the aspects of beauty of another person.

Beauty is beauty: treasure it, admire it, watch it unfold like a flower, but never underestimate its power.

[Copperfox]

In case anyone reading this revived thread has not seen these words of mine on a similar thread:


I can go along to a considerable extent with beauty being in the mind. I have some female friends who are beautiful to me _entirely_ because of the inner character I know they have: notably one Patty Reimer of Illinois, a fine Christian lady who was a faithful friend to _both_ of my now-deceased wives. For me to see the outside of these women is to be reminded of their beautiful inside, so that no matter what they look like externally it's a pleasure to see them.

BUT...can I really expect an uninformed stranger to feel what I feel about my dear friend Ms. Reimer? No, I can't. Nor can I feel what that stranger feels about the inner character of someone whom he knows and I don't. So should there not be _some_ kind of _observable_ standard of physical beauty which CAN be held in common? Should there not be some rock-bottom basic attributes which simply ARE attractive or unattractive? Should there not be some reason why a man with the head of a frog and giant lobster claws on his ankles in place of feet is less pleasing to see than a normal man?

The loss of an agreed-upon concept of objectively visible--and thus _portrayable_--beauty, has done a little-understood kind of damage to the arts. Is it an accident that increased grotesqueness in the arts has accompanied the decline of a belief in universal moral laws? If art cannot portray the beautiful to an audience that understands, it is that much harder for art to portray what is noble and good.

[-Daughter of Eve-]

I hate it how some people seem to think beauty is all about the outside! It isn't. It's the inside that counts.

[inkspot]

CF makes an interesting point. In one of CS Lewis' books -- I want to say The Abolition of Man -- he begins by quoting from a popular textbook at that time which says something to the effect:

"When someone says the Alps are majestic, of course what he really means is that they inspire feelings of majesty in him."

Lewis takes extreme exception with this and makes the point that if you do not believe there are absolute concepts of beauty (and majesty, etc.) then you cannot believe in anything, absolutely. The mountains, he says, are majestic in their own right and the "feelings" of the man observing them in no way negate that. Even if some cretin looked at the Alps and said they weren't so tall -- the mountains would still be, in fact, majestic.

[Copperfox]

Yes, that was in the first chapter of "The Abolition of Man"--which I sometimes think is really the MOST valuable of all of Mr. Lewis' nonfiction books. It accurately predicted TODAY'S popular philosophies.

[SweetWaters]

Yes, that was in the first chapter of "The Abolition of Man"--which I sometimes think is really the MOST valuable of all of Mr. Lewis' nonfiction books. It accurately predicted TODAY'S popular philosophies.
That's really true, Cf; when I read it I thought to myself, "Wow, I can see why this wouldn't be his most popular book, but it's really good."

I don't think beauty is subjective, as I don't think we entirely understand what beauty is. But I think it comes from God, and that he made things to be beautiful, including humans, and the only way we can be truly beautiful and appreciate true beauty is if we submit ourselves to Christ. The world may call things beautiful, but as it cannot understand what beauty truly is, beauty may appear subjective to its eyes. We may call something beautiful if it strikes our fancy, but whether or not it is truly beautiful is not dependent on us calling it that.

[Ephinie]

Hmm. I am going to attempt to be way more philosophical about this than I usually care to be.

I agree with the concept that there IS real, true beauty... a standard of beauty that is not measured by our perception of it but by what it really is.

Yet there is no denying that there is a huge variety of opinion about what is beautiful and what isn't. This is why the saying, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" exists in the first place. I may look at something and think it is beautiful, based on my personal preferences. Another person may look at the same thing and be repulsed by it. How do we explain this widely varying reaction to beauty and ugliness if we hold to the idea that there such a thing as true, real beauty that is not measured by our own perception of it but only by the fact that it IS what it is?

The way I explain this is that each person is different, so we each respond to true beauty based on who we are as a person. When we see something that we feel is beautiful, it strikes us as beautiful because it reminds of vaguely of what we know deep inside is true beauty. Another person looking at the same thing, because they are a different person, is not reminded of true beauty by looking at it. That doesn't mean that the beautiful thing isn't really beautiful - it doesn't meant that it doesn't actually reflect real beauty. It means that, for whatever reason, the person who is not responding to is not touched by it in the same way.

Also, how we were raised and the cultural perceptions of beauty influence how we respond to things significantly. Right now, our culture glorifies women who are incredibly skinny and practically flawless in every way as the ideal of beauty. We are taught to respond to that. The question is, are these models really beautiful? Well, of course they are! But they aren't beautiful because they adhere to a cultural norm - they are beautiful because they were made in the image of God, and God IS truly beautiful. But a woman who is ultra skinny who has perfect nails and shiney hair being beautiful doesn't dimish the fact that another woman who isn't skinny and might have broken nails from her work and wears her hair tightly tied back all the time is also equally as beautiful for the same reason. We just aren't responding to exhibit B's beauty the same way because we've been taught not to.

So the way we view beauty, the way we respond to beauty, is highly subjective based on what kind of a person we are and on what things trigger that faint memory we have of what true beauty really is.

[inkspot]

It's agreed that standards of beauty change based on cultural mores. But Lewis also states in Abolition of Man -- it must be as CF has confirmed my previous is from that book and this is from the same book -- that some old Greek (I want to say Plato) asserted that children must be taught what is beautiful, right from the get-go. He did not want anyone trying to make kids believed that a gnarled, blighted old tree could be beautiful, when in fact a healthy, green and strapping tree is the ideal of beauty ... yet today, an Ansel Adams might photograph that gnarled tree, and it could be hailed as a beautiful photograph. Ol' Plato (or whichever it was) would have been appalled that moderns had become so distanced from what is really beautiful that we would even allow such a person to call himself an artist or such photos to be called art.

So ... perhaps the changing standard of beauty is itself an offense against beauty? Maybe there has only ever been one standard for physical beauty, and that is a body at the height of health and fitness as the Greeks would have had it -- not too fat and not too thin, strong and, of course, young. Maybe a beautiful body is the one best suited to its labors?

I know and believe we are each one beautiful to God because we are each one made in His image. But the way Lewis (with Plato) speaks of absolute standards of beauty makes me wonder if this "eye of the beholder" thing isn't quackery after all.

[Spare Oomian]

The idea of "beauty" seems to change all the time. With each generation people find new fashions and ways of looking that are different than what their parents used to do.

Even now you can see that beauty is changing. All those stick-thin super models are becoming more looked-down upon, and the most popular actresses ect. look like real people. This just adds to what Inkspot said, that beauty changes.

And it also seems to me that everyone's opinion of beauty is different. Using the example of the twisted tree...a painter might find that tree beautiful and want to keep it forever in the form of art, while a person just passing by the tree won't pay any attention. No matter how many people you ask, everyone would probably have a different definition of beauty.

That's why they say that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

[DaydreamBeliever]

I saw this on another forum and thought i would try it out here.
What do you think beauty is??

Beauty to me is...
A pure,kind,and decent heart.
A gentle manner,kind to animals,and other people.
A ready smile,and a happy,contagious laugh.:D

[Ephinie]

Ha! I did it! I merged two threads! MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Um... but I read through both, and they honestly sounded like the same thing to me.

[Inkling]

Ha! I did it! I merged two threads! MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Um... but I read through both, and they honestly sounded like the same thing to me.


I am impressed, and would have beaten you to it if I could have figured merging out :D. Well done, and you must tell me how you did it.

[Copperfox]

Inkling, sometime Fantine, is well qualified both to speak and to be an example of beauty. When I spoke of the tangible, external standard, I did so because EVERYBODY these days (outside of the fashion and movie industries) thinks they HAVE TO speak ONLY of the "eye of the beholder" and "everyone is beautiful" approach, and the understanding of an objective standard is being lost. If everyone were obsessing on the outward appearance, then I would turn around and emphasize the inner-beauty angle.

I sometimes refer to these aspects of beauty as "public beauty" and "recognition beauty." When I first saw a photo of Inkling, I was seeing the way her external appearance superbly conforms to the general human understanding of an attractive woman--thus, public beauty. But Inkling's husband, knowing her thoroughly for the person she is in all dimensions, can see her in ANY state of appearance, including if she had just fallen into a mud puddle while wearing a clown suit, and still know her for her true self, so that the sight of her never ceases to be a delight for him. If Inkling found herself in the condition of another French literary character--physically deformed like the Phantom of the Opera--this STILL would not make her less lovely in her husband's eyes. This is because Inkling's husband is enjoying recognition beauty.

[Ephinie]

You know Inkspot, referring back to your reference of how a picture of an ugly, old gnarled tree can be considered beautiful these days... when clearly the ideal is the healthy, fresh, green tree, it made me think of something.

I don't think that someone looking at a photo of an ugly old tree would think that the tree IN the photo was beautiful... I think the photo would be admired for the camera angle, lense filter, lighting, ect. that it employs. In other words, it would be admired because the photographer took a skillfully done picture. I don't think most people would think the tree in the photo was, by itself, beautiful.

[inkspot]

But that the photographer saw something beautiful there and made it the subject of a "beautiful photo" means that this eye-of-the-beholder thing has, to Plato, anyway, been carried too far. It seems to me the trend today is to look for (and find) beauty even in depravity. What about those art photos of underage Disney star Miley Cyrus? beautiful, no doubt, but disturbing. It seems to me if we deny that anything of itself is beautiful, or that there is a right thing to call beautiful and a wrong thing to call beautiful, we begin to lose our moral bearings in there, too.

And congratulations on merging the threads! Juliet, you can do it, it is easy! :)
Use your merge tool on one thread, copy the URL of page one of the other thread, then paste it into the appropriate box and hit merge (you can also rename if you like).

[Lord of Light]

Oh...nevermind...I won't have to start my own thread...someone started it for me! :D

Ok. Yes, there is the saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". But that's just scratching the surface of the topic. That is physical beauty. There is another beauty that can only be seen one way, and sadly, most people lack the ability to see it. I admit, even I can't see much inner beauty. But, what I have seen makes me want to cry(yeah, sounds odd from a guy;)). Part of that beauty is seen by ones actions. The other part, is much harder to see. But this saying describes it quite well. "The eyes are the window to the soul." Yes, that's also a book, but it was a quote before then.

Here's an example of inner beauty vs. physical beauty. There's a young woman who's quite beautiful(physically, mind you) and a young man "falls in love"(in quotation marks for a certain reason, pm if interested). However, on their wedding night, she sneaks out, not only with his money, but goes to another guy. Poor fella. He got tricked by PHYSICAL beauty, and didn't get to know her well, BEFORE he got married. And girls(women, if you prefer ;)) I am not saying that all women are as such. I know quite a few young women(yeah, older ones too) who are beautiful both ways. Unfortunately, it took me most of my life(well....the 16 years I've lived:D) to realize this. And sadly, most men CANNOT detect inner beauty(SORRY GUYS HAHA)

[Spare Oomian]

I'm glad you brought that up, Lord of Light. It makes me think of this movie I once saw...I can't remember the name. But it's about this guy who loves women, but only attractive ones. Then he somehow gets a spell put on him where he sees women as they are on the inside. So he ends up falling for this really really fat woman, but becaue he's under that spell she looks beautiful (like, super model beutiful) to him.
I really liked that movie. It held a message in it that I've always believed. I've known women that looked physically beautiful and physically not-so-beutiful, but the "unattractive" ones always seemed better to me. It's the attractive ones you gotta watch out for.

[Lord of Light]

That's very much like a book I read about Sir Gawain(you know, from Arthur's Court?). He was on a quest, and in that quest, he meets a...well, I don't really like saying this, but "hag" and later on in the story, either Arthur or Gawain has to marry her. Gawain chooses to marry her because Arthur's currently married to Gueneviere(pardon me if you don't like how that one's spelled :P). As it turns out, Gawain starts to love the "hag". In the end, she turns herself(yeah, she was a "good witch") into her true self, which is a beautiful young maiden. However, she asks Gawain this question: "Do you love me as I am now, or as I was before?" He thinks for a minute, and then answers, "I would love you no matter what you looked like." At that moment, the curse is broken, and she is forever a young maiden.(yeah, I know, probably not the traditional Gawain stories you've heard:), but definitely a better one:))

[Spare Oomian]

Well, I've heard some Aruthur stories, but I've never heard of Gawain.
You know what's kinda sad? There are all these stories about people finding inner beauty in another, and yet some people, guys and girls alike, just refuse to look deep enough. Some seamingly unatractive people live there lives miserably and depressed because nobody will love them because of their looks (or lack there of). It's really sad.:(

[Octesian]

I'm glad you brought that up, Lord of Light. It makes me think of this movie I once saw...I can't remember the name. But it's about this guy who loves women, but only attractive ones. Then he somehow gets a spell put on him where he sees women as they are on the inside. So he ends up falling for this really really fat woman, but becaue he's under that spell she looks beautiful (like, super model beutiful) to him.
I really liked that movie. It held a message in it that I've always believed. I've known women that looked physically beautiful and physically not-so-beutiful, but the "unattractive" ones always seemed better to me. It's the attractive ones you gotta watch out for.

Ah, I think thats Shallow Hal...? with Jack Black. Heard of it and seen only a few parts though

[Ephinie]

But that the photographer saw something beautiful there and made it the subject of a "beautiful photo" means that this eye-of-the-beholder thing has, to Plato, anyway, been carried too far. It seems to me the trend today is to look for (and find) beauty even in depravity. What about those art photos of underage Disney star Miley Cyrus? beautiful, no doubt, but disturbing. It seems to me if we deny that anything of itself is beautiful, or that there is a right thing to call beautiful and a wrong thing to call beautiful, we begin to lose our moral bearings in there, too.

And congratulations on merging the threads! Juliet, you can do it, it is easy! :)
Use your merge tool on one thread, copy the URL of page one of the other thread, then paste it into the appropriate box and hit merge (you can also rename if you like).I guess the next logical question, if we start by agreeing that there is a right thing to call beautiful and a wrong thing to call beautiful, is how do we objectively determine what fits the bill for beautiful? It seems like it is easy to agree on this in broad terms; but it becomes more and more subjective the more specific we get.

For example: We can agree that a tree is most beautiful when it is healthy, and that a dead tree with trunk rot really is not beautiful. But is that same tree more beautiful when it is budding in the bloom of spring or when its leaves are turning brilliant shades of red with the onset of fall?

Or: A person's hair is more beautiful when it is brushed, well-cared for, and healthy. But does blond hair come out more beautiful than red or brown hair, or is red or brown hair more beautiful? Basically, which color most perfectly fits the ideal of what beauty in that area should be?

So it seems like it is much easier to agree on broad, general standards of beauty; but it is very difficult to decide what is universally beautiful when we narrow our approach.

Also, another question: Can beauty be defined as a thing that most closely resembles what it was intended to be? So - the tree that is healthy, a person who is physically fit, ect. Or is beauty actually a thing that goes above and beyond the standards of what it was intended to be? As in, beauty is not the ideal - it is above the ideal, better than the ideal. So - a tree that is better than healthy, one that blooms more brightly than all the others and bears more fruit than all the others. Or a person who is not just healthy and fit, but someone whose hair shines more than anyone else's or who has other physical qualities that set them apart from other people who meet the ideal of what they are intended to be?

Plus: Every time I go to hit the "quote" button, I end up hitting "edit." Then I have to press the back button and try again. And that's the complicated way of merging two threads!

[Copperfox]

Hair being well groomed matters more than its color.

[Lord of Light]

Aye...that it does sirrah!:D

[inkspot]

Ephinie, I will have to look up what Plato actually taught on the subject. I only remember Lewis mentioned it as a defense against people claiming their response/feelings in regard to nature defined what adjectives could be used about nature.

But yah, I am thinking the form which most closely fits the use of the thing is what is most beautiful?

[Copperfox]

About hair: my Janalee used hair coloring, because at least a few white hairs had begun sprouting on her head. She was terribly self-conscious about this--as if in memory of the way she had been very fashion-minded in her young adulthood. I kept on telling her it didn't matter to me; that she would always be gorgeous to me. One time arriving at church (back when Jan could still walk on her own), I spotted a really attractive woman our age or a bit older, whose hair was its natural gray. I pointed her out to Jan. Gradually Jan reached a decision that, when her current hair coloring product supply was gone, she would let her hair be what it would be. But before this intention could be fulfilled, my sweetheart found herself eternally young.

Oh, and a word to Spare Oomian's post at the top of the page: it is often as you say with beautiful women--but not always. It can turn out the opposite. Sometimes physically beautiful women develop a benign self-confidence which makes it easier for them to be genuinely friendly to others; and sometimes not-so-attractive women grow so bitter with envy and resentment of beautiful ones that their hearts are filled with free-floating hatred for everybody. The so-called comedienne Rosie O'Donnell comes to mind.

[Eyad]

for me beuty is the beuty of the soul...being peacfull and loving and satisfied these things make not only the soul beutifull but also the world around you

[Spare Oomian]

Oh, and a word to Spare Oomian's post at the top of the page: it is often as you say with beautiful women--but not always. It can turn out the opposite. Sometimes physically beautiful women develop a benign self-confidence which makes it easier for them to be genuinely friendly to others; and sometimes not-so-attractive women grow so bitter with envy and resentment of beautiful ones that their hearts are filled with free-floating hatred for everybody. The so-called comedienne Rosie O'Donnell comes to mind.

I realise that, Copperfox. But there are many shows out there where a guy is with a woman who's totally "beautiful" but is an absolute brat. But because she's attractive he doesn't care. Just somethine I notice about some men. Not all, but some.

[Knight of the Lion's Song]

I agree that some men are pigs and they are the ones that cause us other men to be judged as such: Sex driven pigs.
However beauty is only found after all false pretense has been thrown aside and what is exposed is the most beautiful thing of all: Self truth.
Being true to ones self and the courage to be unique is beautiful!

[Mrs. Pevensie]

simple...beauty is in the eye of the beholder...and isn't usually just physical beauty!

[bruiser]

Beauty is in anything that God created.

[Copperfox]

That's right, Amanda; and the more a created thing conforms to its Creator's will, the more its intended beauty is revealed. Moral ugliness consists in resistance to God's will--as Mr. Tolkien illustrated in "The Silmarillion," when he imagined Satan, a.k.a. Morgoth, trying to change God's song of creation to suit himself.

[Mrs. Pevensie]

Beauty is in anything that God created.

I agree with that 100%

[inkspot]

That's right, Amanda; and the more a created thing conforms to its Creator's will, the more its intended beauty is revealed. Moral ugliness consists in resistance to God's will--as Mr. Tolkien illustrated in "The Silmarillion," when he imagined Satan, a.k.a. Morgoth, trying to change God's song of creation to suit himself.
I like that. So, the more true you are to your true nature, the more beautiful you are. This means, for humans, and particularly for believers in Christ, our True Nature is the Nature of Christ. So the more closely we conform to His image, the more beautiful we are.

[bruiser]

I like that. So, the more true you are to your true nature, the more beautiful you are. This means, for humans, and particularly for believers in Christ, our True Nature is the Nature of Christ. So the more closely we conform to His image, the more beautiful we are.

I liked it too. ^^
It does make a lot of sense that the more that we have faith in God and the more that we harmonize with Him, the more beautiful we would be in mind and spirit.

[Mrs. Pevensie]

one person...Skandar Keynes!!! :D

Sorry, I cound't resist!

[Copperfox]

One great element in beauty of personhood is courage. In the book of "Return of the King," Eowyn's encounter with the Nazgul King was seen through the eyes of Meriadoc. Seeing her standing heroically against the inhuman monster, Merry was overwhelmed by the beauty in her which largely consisted in that courage. Without any nonsense about a hobbit-man being "in love with" a human woman, this feeling for her gave Merry the force of will to make his own attack on the Nazgul King, without which Eowyn would have had no chance.

[inkspot]

I liked it too. ^^
It does make a lot of sense that the more that we have faith in God and the more that we harmonize with Him, the more beautiful we would be in mind and spirit.
This reminds me of the dog show! They always say each dog is judged against the standards of his breed (not against each other or against other breeds) -- how well he conforms to the ideal for that breed. For us, our standard is Jesus, and how beautiful we are is judged by how well we conform to His image. :)

[EveningStar]

I like Amanda's answer that Beauty is anything God created.

I'd tweak it a bit. I'd say that beauty is our reaction to seeing part of God's perfect plan reflected in the world and the people around us.

[Copperfox]

On the other side of the coin, ugliness is vandalism. That is, intentional moral ugliness involves wanting to upset or distort the beauty God has created. I remember one of Danny Kaye's old comedy movies, in which he sang a silly song assuming the identity of a fashion designer. During the song, models were seen wearing truly bizarre outfits which no sane mind could regard as attractive. And sure enough, the song ended with the words: "I hate women!"

Turning to Mr. Tolkien on a similar subject: in the little-known book he started and never finished, showing Gondor after the lifetime of Aragorn, Tolkien had one man trying to explain to another what Orcs had been like. He said, "A man might steal fruit from a tree, but an Orc would cut the tree down out of sheer needless malice." And some will recall in LOTR how Frodo and Sam discovered an ancient statue which had been defaced by vandalous Orcs. Here and now, there are people practicing so-called art--our Tiffany would corroborate this--who have the spirit of Orcs, really wanting to create pure ugliness as their warped way of feeling superior to those who desire uplifting beauty.

[bruiser]

Beauty is in a bird's eyes flying over a mountain range covered in autumn leaves and cascading waterfalls.
Beauty resides on a butterfly's wings.

Just to throw some of my other opinions in again.

[Copperfox]

Beauty is also to be found in the mind of a charming and winsome girl who SIMULTANEOUSLY is able to pitch in at hard practical tasks where she lives, AND is able to put poetic flourishes into her online remarks.

==============================


"The knight is sworn to valor.
His heart knows only virtue.
His blade protects the helpless.
His might upholds the weak.
His word speaks only truth.
His wrath undoes the wicked."
-- Hero's Creed from the film "Dragonheart"

[bruiser]

Beauty lies in poetry; the words from a man's soul.

Beauty also resides within the sweet soul that compliments others and helps, not only those around him physically, but also those that he doesn't really know.

[Copperfox]

For that matter, there is an inspiring beauty in a girl who, having adopted a spiritual grandfather, is willing, under sensible conditions, to cooperate with him in ministering to people's needs.

[bruiser]

The amazing thing about beauty is that it can dwell in different forms for different people, yet it still has the same reaction to everyone, no matter how different you are from the person standing beside you. You would both find joy and comfort in the beauty that surrounds and swallows you whole.

Beauty is in the reflection of a mirror, no matter how clean or clear the reflection is.

-------------------

Beauty is in a heart that loves, eyes that see, mind that thinks, arms that embrace, lips that talk, things that are alive and dead, things that were never living. Beauty is everything, it is nothing.

[Shadow Hawk]

One deem this ugly and still another person may deem it beautifull...... In this way everything is beautiful in its own way.

[Copperfox]

Except Rosie O'Donnell. Her face was not doomed by genetics to be hideous, but she has chosen to make it so with her interminable sneering and scowling, in fits of petulant anger which are almost invariably directed against persons who have done NOTHING to deserve her dislike.

[iminlovewithedwardcullen]

One deem this ugly and still another person may deem it beautifull...... In this way everything is beautiful in its own way.

I ove this^^, i totally agreee, what one person my find ugle others may find beautiful. I think that if you are confident in your self then even if you think your ugly your beauty will shine through, or something like that.

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

Except Rosie O'Donnell. Her face was not doomed by genetics to be hideous, but she has chosen to make it so with her interminable sneering and scowling, in fits of petulant anger which are almost invariably directed against persons who have done NOTHING to deserve her dislike.

I thought everybody thought she was beautiful. :|

[Copperfox]

Some Frenchman said something like this once: "If a woman is not capable of being ugly, she is not really beautiful." Then by his standards, Rosie O'Donnell is more gorgeous than Scarlett Johanssen, Gillian Norris, Naomi Watts, Jessica Alba, Lexa Doig and Jewel Staite combined!

[BarbarianKing]

If anyone wants to find out what beutiful is or means, all they need to do is go to the "Share a Pic" thread and look at all the beutiful TDL members. There's true beauty there. I mean, you can tell it's inside and out beauty.:)

[Solya]

I totally agree, BarbarianKing! :) In our eyes, everybody here is beautiful because we know these people and so know their inner beauty as well as their outer. Many people I know only became beautiful to me after I learned to see their inside as well as their outside.

[Queen Swanwhite]

I do think that personality is very important, but I don't think people should stop caring about what they look like, after all it does give someone their first impression, and first impressions are important too. :)

[hello mcfly]

we were given beauty in the inside of us, in our hearts. that beauty then reflects on the outside of us, our appearance. so beauty isn't just on the inside, it's also on the outside, it reflects who we are. and we are all beautiful.

[Kells]

Some Frenchman said something like this once: "If a woman is not capable of being ugly, she is not really beautiful." Then by his standards, Rosie O'Donnell is more gorgeous than Scarlett Johanssen, Gillian Norris, Naomi Watts, Jessica Alba, Lexa Doig and Jewel Staite combined!

That sounds crazy. Could he mean that she cannot be beautiful if she is so vain that she is horrified of not always looking her best? It's the only way I could see that quote making any sense.

[inkspot]

Maybe it means if your beauty is stamped on you like a statue's, then it's not real beauty? Cuz, you know, a statue just has the one pose and one expression, and it may be beautiful, but it isn't real; it's just an image of a real thing ...

[EveningStar]

Beauty is that quality of a person, place or thing that makes you want it to be part of your life, whether it is to be admired from afar, imitated, or embraced.

[Copperfox]

Here is what I believe was meant by the man who said a woman must be capable of being ugly if she is to be beautiful. I believe he had in mind the _expressiveness_ of a woman's features. Probably he was bored with women who would never show any greater sign of emotion on their faces than a feeble smile. He wanted to see a woman whose face would reflect every mood she experienced, thus being capable of ugly moments.

[narniantreefaery]

The most beautiful things in the world cannot be SEEN, or ADMIRED....they must be FELT IN THE HEART

Beauty comes from within, not from the outside.

That which enchants is said to deceive.

Finally, someone I agree with.:D

[~Valiant]

Have you guys ever heard the quote that is something such as "You do not love him or her because he or she is beautiful, he or she is beautiful because you love him or her."?
I really like that quote.
When it comes to looks on the outside, natural beauty is the best.

Beauty comes within, but when you do feel ugly on the outside, just smile. Smiling adds tons to your beauty. :)

[Lila]

For me, beauty is anything that causes emotion.

[Lord of Light]

Have you guys ever heard the quote that is something such as "You do not love him or her because he or she is beautiful, he or she is beautiful because you love him or her."?
I really like that quote.
When it comes to looks on the outside, natural beauty is the best.

Beauty comes within, but when you do feel ugly on the outside, just smile. Smiling adds tons to your beauty. :)

Yeah, I've found that quote today when doing a search on "beauty". Here's another quote that goes with your last sentence.:)"I've never seen a smiling face that was not beautiful."

Yeah, call me a weirdo:eek:, freak:confused: or whatever you want, but as a photographer, I've really begun to see how much we ignore that which is truly beautiful.

[umbrellaxscenexcore]

For me, beauty is anything that causes emotion.

What kind of emotion?
I don't exactly know for myself. I can't pin point it exactly but if I see something I think is beautiful, I might post it!:D

What is beauty...it doesn't ask who is beautiful now does it?

[Copperfox]

For me, beauty is anything that causes emotion.


In that case, a rabid Rottweiler dog charging at me would have to be GORGEOUS.

[SongsofLife]

Beauty is seen in my friend Gail. I saw her today, sporting her cap to cover her cancer-induced bald head. When I told her I thought her beautiful, she didn't believe me. After asking myself whether I was being condescending, I decided her beauty came from the sanctity and value of her life, expressed in the love she shares with so many friends and family members.

[NotATameLion]

In that case, a rabid Rottweiler dog charging at me would have to be GORGEOUS.

Thank you for a good laugh. :)

[Primsong]

...I remember one of Danny Kaye's old comedy movies, in which he sang a silly song assuming the identity of a fashion designer. During the song, models were seen wearing truly bizarre outfits which no sane mind could regard as attractive. And sure enough, the song ended with the words: "I hate women!"

I love The Secret Life of Walter Mitty! Yay!

As to beauty, I think my favorite expression in reading this thread was the concept that all true beauty is of God, and the closer something or someone is to what God intended them to be, the more beautiful they are.

Aside from people, I find much beauty in creation, in the skies, trees, even in the complexity and perfection of tiny weeds that I pull out of my garden. Creation is simply stunning and amazing and yes, beautiful. And this is the fallen world! I can't even imagine what's coming up. :p

If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what is it to behold? To take in, to savor, to map onto that 'true beauty' blueprint the Spirit has placed within you? To compare and contrast and measure the perfections/imperfections ratios? To accept and forgive, with a blind eye to the known problems and hope for potential improvements?

[Dernhelm]

My thoughts on the idea of beauty--

Beauty is order. Rightness. As opposed to sensless chaos. You can talk about outward beauty or inward beauty, or the beauty of an idea, or the beauty of music, or of anything else, but in the end--all we are trying to express by using that word is that the thing we speak of is pleasing to us.

[Copperfox]

We already have a word for unseen inward spiritual quality: the word "goodness." If language is to have any meaning at all, we MUST be allowed to express particular ideas BESIDES those which make "everybody happy." So let's agree for convenience that everyone everywhere is FABULOUSLY beautiful in their spirits, filled with heroic levels of love and moral virtue. But this does not even begin to address the question of whether someone might be nice TO LOOK AT.

I think that part of what sets off the beauty-recognition response in human beings looking at other human beings is the appearance that the person observed is truly a LIVING being, not a dead object. Many non-living objects are very straight and rigid--say, a brick; and many others are altogether shapeless--say, a towel dropped in a heap on a floor. But a person, or an animal or plant, will have a defined shape, yet not the geometrical hardness of a brick.

Back when everyone used to be terrified to admit that the human body had specific parts, the word "curves" or "curvaceous" was often used to indicate pleasing contours in a woman's body. The fact that a woman OR a man even HAS contours, non-linear yet still regular in their way, sets humanity apart from pencils and cotton-balls. We have muscles and joints and parts, which unite in a marvellous whole.

I haven't been so politically incorrect here as to insist that one human being could LOOK BETTER THAN another one; but at least I've asserted that there is SOMETHING to see with the literal visual eyeballs, as well as with those good old spiritual-sounding "eyes of the heart."

[inkspot]

So we need to differentiate between "beauty" -- which can apply to a spirit or a gesture or a heart -- and "physical beauty" -- which can apply to humans -- and "material beauty" -- which can apply to mountains, beaches, animals ...?

It's hard to pin this concept down, because I heart can indeed be beautiful, yet the possessor of said heart be a trifle, not-beautiful.

[Kells]

So let's agree for convenience that everyone everywhere is FABULOUSLY beautiful in their spirits, filled with heroic levels of love and moral virtue. But this does not even begin to address the question of whether someone might be nice TO LOOK AT.

I think the question is avoided because, aside from not wanting anyone's feelings hurt, we like to think we are above some of our, um, baser instincts. It's back to your "cover up the girls" rant, I guess. Some people can't separate appreciating physical beauty from lust.


I am morbidly fascinated by how a beautiful face can be overshadowed by a mean disposition. I used to work with a man who has a tendency to sulk and snap like a small dog. It gives his face a pinched, unhealthy look and twists his brows and lips unpleasantly. But in an attempt to be friendly, I asked if he wanted a cup of coffee when I was going to get one. It surprised him into a small smile and I saw why other women rave about how attractive he is. His face fits those ratios for beauty almost perfectly and he has flawless skin. It was so bizarre, like looking at a different person.

[Copperfox]

Good point, Kells. Even with nice people, it makes a difference what mood is on their features. The senior pastor's wife at the church I used to attend in Maryland--the one I have mentioned as having had a premonition from God of Janalee's passing--is a most kindly soul, and an attractive enough woman at all times, but when she smiles cheerfully she becomes radiantly beautiful.

[Nightfire]

I believe that everyone has something beautiful inside of them. Note that I said inside and not outside. I think people are confusing beauty with a good complexion or feature of their face/body. Beauty is a kind word, something that you do to show your love to someone else. People can pass along the beauty of God by preaching or telling people about the ways of God and the Bible.

[Lossëndil]

For some reason, I'm not a good judge of outer beauty. My cousin and I were once talking about a movie, she said something like "Isn't he handsome?" I went "uh... I don't really pay attention to that kind of stuff. " Then she was like, ":eek:I don't pay extra attention either, but that's stuff that you just notice!"
Well, I'm afraid I don't notice. I'm still trying to learn the definition of handsome. Does anyone mind telling me? I find that I remember people, and judge their appearances, by the way they act, by their speech, voice, their attitude.
I'm terrible at remembering faces. I remember the first time meeting one of my teachers, and I thought "Wow, she's beautiful!" Only later did I realize that she would not be considered as beautiful by usual standards. But still, I was fascinated by her, she's such a great teacher! (I love her lessons!) I guess for me, two eyes, two ears, a nose and a mouth is good enough. Even without, I could learn to appreciate.

[Powl']

I think Beauty is just an opinio, something you, and only you can judge with your and only your eyes. You can like a dancing lawner banner for example, but another member won't. It's just an opinion ... For example, Miss France, people can say "Everyone thinks she's pretty" but there will always be someone with another opinion.

[Kells]

For some reason, I'm not a good judge of outer beauty. My cousin and I were once talking about a movie, she said something like "Isn't he handsome?" I went "uh... I don't really pay attention to that kind of stuff. " Then she was like, ":eek:I don't pay extra attention either, but that's stuff that you just notice!"


As far as men, you are more likely to disagree with someone on whether or not he is handsome because the definition of male attractiveness is so broad. Women tend to see the whole picture more easily, it seems, as far as personality and looks. Not trying to be sexist, its just something I have noticed in my peers and a lot of older folks, too.

Most people regard symmetry as attractive. There are actually ratios to define how attractive a person's face is. It is why Halle Berry is considered one of the most gorgeous women in Hollywood.

I prefer your idea of whether or not someone is attractive though.
I'd take cute and quirky Zooey Deschanel over traditional looking Halle Berry any day. LOL!

[Lucy Fan]

I agree that beauty is in the inside. People I talk to, whether it be at my community college, or at work I talk to because of who they are inside, but it doesn't mean I turn down beautiful people on the outside as well. ;)

[Lord of Light]

Truly, I say to you, in some ways we are all beautiful. Whether it be physically, or spiritually, or be it some characteristics or traits about us. We all, can be beautiful either way, but if we are beautiful one way, we will still shine bright.

[Elven Prince]

I agree, beauty can be many different things. I think beauty is found in

1 - devotion to a certain thing
2 - intelligence
3 - well, beauty
4 - a kind of good naturedness
5 - hard workers
6 - their inside basically
7 - and other things I'm sure

At least that's my opinion, it would be interesting to read this entire thread instead of a couple pages. Maybe later (:

[Nightfire]

Truly, I say to you, in some ways we are all beautiful. Whether it be physically, or spiritually, or be it some characteristics or traits about us. We all, can be beautiful either way, but if we are beautiful one way, we will still shine bright.

I agree. Beautifully said. :)