Reading Group

[Elendil]

Does anyone want to goin a bible reading group? We can do some reading on Genesis to start with...Debate, disscusse and so on. Anyone?

[PrinceOfTheWest]

There's a thread starting on the Gospel of John - would you like this thread merged with that, or do you want to keep the focus of this one wider? I don't want to clamp down on this automatically, but it would keep the forum tidier if we didn't have dozens of these threads lying about.

[Sir Benjamin the Lion]

I haven't been to John, and it's Good to start at the Begining. :D

[Copperfox]

The very start of John's Gospel is one of the principal statements of the Deity of Jesus: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." But less-realized is the fact that the same verse bears witness to the Trinity as a whole, since if there were ONLY Jesus there would be no way He could be WITH God as well as BEING God.

Promoters of the false teaching of "Jesus Only" cling to the statement that nothing was made without Jesus as meaning that things WERE made without the Father and the Holy Spirit! But it makes a difference for God to be "multi-personal," since this means that He had a "society" within His own being BEFORE anything was created. This in turn means that He could experience love, could BE love, before there were created people for Him to love.

[LifeMaiden]

Does anyone want to goin a bible reading group? We can do some reading on Genesis to start with...Debate, disscusse and so on. Anyone?



Well, this would be exceptionally helpful for me, since it;s been a good 25 years since I've studied scripture. Only recently after I came here and found God again did I begin to read the Gospels...John I've read, and I've skimmed through some of the more familiar parts of the Old Testament, but THIS would be a great idea here to discuss the opening part of the Bible. That way I don't have to go driving around looking for regular scripture classes, I can just do it online with members I know and love!

[Son of Adam]

I wouldn't mind it. I am a pastor who is on sabbatical because of my ill wife and doing something like this causes me to stretch myself, get back into the habit of researching, etc. If you wouldn't mind a pastor being here, I'd love to be a part.

[Neevil]

Genesis is an awesome book. I love it. I'd love to go through it again. :D

[LifeMaiden]

Well okay who's going to start? What happens if our Bibles are really different from each other LOL?

[oxford girl]

Does anyone want to goin a bible reading group? We can do some reading on Genesis to start with...Debate, disscusse and so on. Anyone?


shore, I've done an indepth study on Genesis allready but this sounds like a good idea

[Neevil]

Well okay who's going to start? What happens if our Bibles are really different from each other LOL?
I think using different Bible translations can be good for studying. You get a better idea of the meaning specific words and such that way...

[LifeMaiden]

Yeah you're right. Okay, whenever everyone else is ready, I'll pull my Bible out :)

[LifeMaiden]

Can we change the title of this thread to BIBLE READING/STUDY GROUP and make it a sticky topic?

[Son of Adam]

Do whatever you want LM. I'm ready to start.

[LifeMaiden]

I can't sticky this post because someone else has to.....this is not my jurisdiction if ya know what I mean :D another moderator has to


One it's made sticky, let us begin. Who would want to go first?

[Son of Adam]

Are we plunging into a whoe chapter or are we going to take so many verses? And who is the leader, if that's what people want?

[Son of Adam]

OK...here's Chapter One:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

[LifeMaiden]

Are we plunging into a whoe chapter or are we going to take so many verses? And who is the leader, if that's what people want?


How about since you're a pastor, you be the leader?

I think we're talking about half of the chapter you posted....that seems too long for some reason...should we just do a handful of verses or an entire chapter? What does other people think?

[Lucy the Marshwiggle]

I don't get how this would work. I would love to be in the group, but can someone explain to me how we would read it, discuss it, share opinions, etc.

[Sir Benjamin the Lion]

some one reads a few verses. Then we dicuss and place our opinions on the translation and all those things like, In the beginning,(time) God(who) created the Heavens and the Earth. Get it? or did I just confuse you more?

[LifeMaiden]

Well Genesis is pretty easy to understand...it's the story of how God created the world, etc. I guess if anyone has questions they can ask. He created all that was the world in six days and rested on the seventh. This sort of reminds me of Aslan in the Magician's Nephew :D

[Son of Adam]

One of the things that needs to be pointed out here in Genesis, especially in the first chapter. The biggest arguements are going to be:

1. The Gap Theory - the belief that between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 there existed a period of time that may have been thousands of years in which life existed and was the time of the dinosaurs, dragons, and human life before God destroyed it in favor of Genesis 1:2 where He started all over again. Now I can go into further detail on this theory if there is a concensus of opinion on it.

2. The overall length of creation. Was it a literal 6 day creation? Since the sun and the moon weren't spoken into existance until day 4, was the first 3 days a longer time span? Did God use evolution to aid in creation?

If these matters are to be discussed they should be done briefly and politely. I merely wish to point out one thing. Although I accept the literal 6 day creation, I cannot in anyway prove it 100%. Neither can an evolutionist prove that theory either.

When God had Moses write down the history starting with the creation story, He knew that Moses and every succeeding generation after him could not possibly comprehend the exact how creation was done. We couldn't even begin to fathom the science that went into it. Therefore God made it a short story. "In the beginning, I created it all." Plain and simple. "You don't need to understand the details because you couldn't understand them if you tried." So my main premise here is for us to understand that God did it and it doesn't matter how that much. It may be fun to study, but ones salvation does not rest on whether one believes in a literal 6 cay creation or through the use of evolution.

For those of you wishing to explore the science behind creationism, I would have you check out Carl Baugh, PhD. His website is: http://www.creationevidence.org/

[Lucy the Marshwiggle]

some one reads a few verses. Then we dicuss and place our opinions on the translation and all those things like, In the beginning,(time) God(who) created the Heavens and the Earth. Get it? or did I just confuse you more?

Yeah I got it! Thanks! :)

[LifeMaiden]

Well it's very true we cannot prove that the world DIDN'T get created in six days, any more than evolutionists and scientists can prove that there really is a 'link' between all the species...or man came out of the 'mud.' Sometimes we just need to be in awe of all the great things God created whether he did it in six days or six billion.

I'll let Pastor Carl :) ( NightMystic) lead the way for more verses and quotes...I just was rereading parts of Revelation, about the seven angels and the blowing of the horns.

[Son of Adam]

I do not know how deep you desire to go in the study of Genesis, so I am going to start with the first two verses of Genesis and we will go from there. So let's take a look at Genesis 1:1-2:

Gen 1:1-2 -
In these verses we have the work of creation in its epitome and in its embryo.

I. In its epitome, Gen_1:1, where we find, to our comfort, the first article of our creed, that God the Father Almighty is the Maker of heaven and earth, and as such we believe in him.

1. Observe, in this verse, four things: -
(1.) The effect produced - the heaven and the earth, that is, the world, including the whole frame and furniture of the universe, the world and all things therein, Act_17:24. The world is a great house, consisting of upper and lower stories, the structure stately and magnificent, uniform and convenient, and every room well and wisely furnished. It is the visible part of the creation that Moses here designs to account for; therefore he mentions not the creation of angels. But as the earth has not only its surface adorned with grass and flowers, but also its bowels enriched with metals and precious stones (which partake more of its solid nature and more valuable, though the creation of them is not mentioned here), so the heavens are not only beautified to our eye with glorious lamps which garnish its outside, of whose creation we here read, but they are within replenished with glorious beings, out of our sight, more celestial, and more surpassing them in worth and excellency than the gold or sapphires surpass the lilies of the field. In the visible world it is easy to observe, [1.] Great variety, several sorts of beings vastly differing in their nature and constitution from each other. Lord, how manifold are thy works, and all good! [2.] Great beauty. The azure sky and verdant earth are charming to the eye of the curious spectator, much more the ornaments of both. How transcendent then must the beauty of the Creator be! [3.] Great exactness and accuracy. To those that, with the help of microscopes, narrowly look into the works of nature, they appear far more fine than any of the works of art. [4.] Great power. It is not a lump of dead and inactive matter, but there is virtue, more or less, in every creature: the earth itself has a magnetic power. [5.] Great order, a mutual dependence of beings, an exact harmony of motions, and an admirable chain and connection of causes. [6.] Great mystery. There are phenomena in nature which cannot be solved, secrets which cannot be fathomed nor accounted for. But from what we see of heaven and earth we may easily enough infer the eternal power and Godhead of the great Creator, and may furnish ourselves with abundant matter for his praises.

(2.) The author and cause of this great work - God. The Hebrew word is Elohim, which bespeaks, [1.] The power of God the Creator. El signifies the strong God; and what less than almighty strength could bring all things out of nothing? [2.] The plurality of persons in the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. This plural name of God, in Hebrew, which speaks of him as many though he is one, was to the Gentiles perhaps a savour of death unto death, hardening them in their idolatry; but it is to us a savour of life unto life, confirming our faith in the doctrine of the Trinity, which, though but darkly intimated in the Old Testament, is clearly revealed in the New. The Son of God, the eternal Word and Wisdom of the Father, was with him when he made the world (Pro_8:30), nay, we are often told that the world was made by him, and nothing made without him, Joh_1:3, Joh_1:10; Eph_3:9; Col_1:16; Heb_1:2.

(3.) The manner in which this work was effected: God created it, that is, made it out of nothing. There was not any pre-existent matter out of which the world was produced. The fish and fowl were indeed produced out of the waters and the beasts and man out of the earth; but that earth and those waters were made out of nothing. By the ordinary power of nature, it is impossible that any thing should be made out of nothing; no artificer can work, unless he has something to work on. But by the almighty power of God it is not only possible that something should be made of nothing (the God of nature is not subject to the laws of nature), but in the creation it is impossible it should be otherwise, for nothing is more injurious to the honour of the Eternal Mind than the supposition of eternal matter. Thus the excellency of the power is of God and all the glory is to him.

(4.) When this work was produced: In the beginning, that is, in the beginning of time, time began with the production of those beings that are measured by time. Before the beginning of time there was none but that Infinite Being that inhabits eternity. Should we ask why God made the world no sooner, we should but darken counsel by words without knowledge; for how could there be sooner or later in eternity? And he did make it in the beginning of time, according to his eternal counsels before all time. The Jewish Rabbies have a saying, that there were seven things which God created before the world, by which they only mean to express the excellency of these things: - The law, repentance, paradise, hell, the throne of glory, the house of the sanctuary, and the name of the Messiah. But to us it is enough to say, In the beginning was the Word, Joh_1:1.

2. Let us learn hence, (1.) That atheism is folly, and atheists are the greatest fools in nature; for they see there is a world that could not make itself, and yet they will not own there is a God that made it. Doubtless, they are without excuse, but the god of this world has blinded their minds. (2.) That God is sovereign Lord of all by an incontestable right. If he is the Creator, no doubt he is the owner and possessor of heaven and earth. (3.) That with God all things are possible, and therefore happy are the people that have him for their God, and whose help and hope stand in his name, Psa_121:2; Psa_124:8. (4.) That the God we serve is worthy of, and yet is exalted far above, all blessing and praise, If he made the world, he needs not our services, nor can be benefited by them (Act_17:24, Act_17:25), and yet he justly requires them, and deserves our praise, Rev_4:11. If all is of him, all must be to him.
II. Here is the work of creation in its embryo, Gen_1:2, where we have an account of the first matter and the first mover.

1. A chaos was the first matter. It is here called the earth (though the earth, properly taken, was not made till the third day Gen_1:10), because it did most resemble that which afterwards was called earth, mere earth, destitute of its ornaments, such a heavy unwieldy mass was it; it is also called the deep, both for its vastness and because the waters which were afterwards separated from the earth were now mixed with it. This immense mass of matter was it out of which all bodies, even the firmament and visible heavens themselves, were afterwards produced by the power of the Eternal Word. The Creator could have made his work perfect at first, but by this gradual proceeding he would show what is, ordinarily, the method of his providence and grace. Observe the description of this chaos. (1.) There was nothing in it desirable to be seen, for it was without form and void. Toho and Bohu, confusion and emptiness; so these words are rendered, Isa_34:11. It was shapeless, it was useless, it was without inhabitants, without ornaments, the shadow or rough draught of things to come, and not the image of the things, Heb_10:1. The earth is almost reduced to the same condition again by the sin of man, under which the creation groans. See Jer_4:23, I beheld the earth, and lo it was without form, and void. To those who have their hearts in heaven this lower world, in comparison with that upper, still appears to be nothing but confusion and emptiness. There is no true beauty to be seen, no satisfying fulness to be enjoyed, in this earth, but in God only. (2.) If there had been any thing desirable to be seen, yet there was no light to see it by; for darkness, thick darkness, was upon the face of the deep. God did not create this darkness (as he is said to create the darkness of affliction, Isa_45:7), for it was only the want of light, which yet could not be said to be wanted till something was made that might be seen by it; nor needs the want of it be much complained of, when there was nothing to be seen but confusion and emptiness.

2. The Spirit of God was the first mover: He moved upon the face of the waters. When we consider the earth without form and void, I think it is like the valley full of dead and dry bones. Can these live? Can this confused mass of matter be formed into a beautiful world? Yes, if a spirit of life from God enter into it, Eze_37:9. Now there is hope concerning this thing; for the Spirit of God begins to work, and, if he work, who or what shall hinder? God is said to make the world by his Spirit, Psa_33:6; Job_26:13; and by the same mighty worker the new creation is effected. He moved upon the face of the deep, as Elijah stretched himself upon the dead child, - as the hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and hovers over them, to warm and cherish them, Mat_23:37, - as the eagle stirs up her nest, and flutters over her young (it is the same world that is here used), Deu_32:11. Learn hence, That God is not only the author of all being, but the fountain of life and spring of motion. Dead matter would be for ever dead if he did not quicken it. And this makes it credible to us that God should raise the dead.

[Son of Adam]

I have been asked to comment briefly on what I termed before as the so-called Gap Theory.

Simply stated there are numerous theologians and other Christians who believe that between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 there existed another earth complete with life including human life, and that like in Noah's day, God destroyed the earth with a massive flood. Many believe that this was when dinosaurs roamed the earth. It is also held that the destruction of the earth at this time coincided with the fall of Satan and 1/3 of the angels as well.

The reasons behind this belief are complex but comes from initially the wording of vs 1 and 2. In verse 1 God created the heavens and the earth. It was a full creation of a life giving planet. However in verse 2 there are several words in Hebrew that can be interpreted slightly differently from the way the KJV and other translations have it. The word translated form is the Hebrew word tohoo which describes a wasteland or something that has become a wasteland. The Hebrew word for void is bohoo which can mean something that was made ruin. Finally the word for darkness in Hebrew is choshek which is translated destruction, death, or wickedness. These three words, some say indicate that the earth became a wasteland, was made ruin, and as a result destruction and death took place when God destroyed the earth for the first time.

There are other verses they try to use to establish their claim of a Gap Theory, but I will only dwell on one other which is the primary verse used to support it. It is found in Jeremiah 4

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Many ascribe that because vs. 23 in Jeremiah's vision says nearly the same thing as Genesis 1:2 using the same exact Hebrew words, that this vision of his was one of a time past and not a future one.

So, briefly stated this is the condensed version of what the Gap Theory is all about.

[Sir Benjamin the Lion]

That was Briefly!!?
That's what I call an essay.

[The First Joke]

me, too! that's not brief at all!

[Son of Adam]

That was about as brief as you can get with that subject. Sorry people. LOL :D

[Sir Benjamin the Lion]

I like short because I am kind of short. I am over five feet.

IT was six days, Only God's time. Think about it. The Earth is slowing down. Just a thought.

[oxford girl]

I all ways wonderd how long it took, cause it was 6 of God's days, and they may not be the same as ours

[Shadow Hawk]

true, so that means we will never know the true answer. you'll have to ask God when you get to heaven. :D