Halloween

[office]

As a christian how do you feel about Halloween?

[Afton]

UM....at our church we call it "The Reformation"party.....so we dress up and do a skit of martin luther...and have a hunt out on a farm so......im not sure how i feel.....i dont think its like SO awful....but....

[Josh the Jester]

Well I read in the Encyclopedia that it is a pagan holiday, and well my mom doesn't want me and my brothers going trick or treating...............come to think of it I would think it would be more fun scaring people.

[office]

Well,personally I don`t mind Halloween at all. It`s just a night for kids to pretend there something there not and get candy.

[Josh the Jester]

UM....at our church we call it "The Reformation"party.....so we dress up and do a skit of martin luther...and have a hunt out on a farm so......im not sure how i feel.....i dont think its like SO awful....but....

Yea my church does that too, but if we went this year me and my brother would have to volunteer.

[Afton]

Well,personally I don`t mind Halloween at all. It`s just a night for kids to pretend there something there not and get candy.
yea same here i dont mind it.....but my parents dont like trick or treating because of the candy....u know"some one might put something bad in it"

[office]

yea same here i dont mind it.....but my parents dont like trick or treating because of the candy....u know"some one might put something bad in it"
I live in a small town so we never had to worry about that.

[Afton]

I live in a small town so we never had to worry about that.
oh....well we live in a really busy place and its growing too so.....

[Aravis Kenobi]

I don't like Halloween because it's worshipping Satan which is how it got started. Halloween is in and of itself part of the devil, and I want nothing to do with it, period. At my church, we used to have something called Trunk or Treat where kids would dress up, (scary costumes, witch costumes, etc..were banned) and people would be parked in the parking lot giving out candy and homemade food and stuff like that. Somewhat fun, but I still don't like Halloween because of it's eeriness; reminds me too much of Harry Potter, and I think the devil can have Halloween.

[...Yeah.Its.Me...]

well yeah but i love halloweeen my mom says im 2 old but me and my friends just do it for fun like 1 year me and my friend (well my cousin) we just put on some normal clothes and went walkin around but we didnt get any candy and we wasnt tryin 2 like this year a lot of my friends and me r goin 2 dress up as like goths and that is goin 2 b our costume but i thiink it is just a wast of money 2 by a comctume and wear it once so i make my own but yeah i love halloweeen

[Emily_Cullen]

I only like Halloween because of the candy not all the scary stuff I like going as an angel or something like that not anything evil or *shudders* I can't say it

[Aravis Kenobi]

I like candy too (one reason I don't go trick-or-treating :rolleyes: but my parents won't let me (not that I care to anyway) to go candy hunting or anything. We usually go to see a movie on Oct 31, but I don't know if we'll be able to this year. I actually look forward to that time, because last year, we went to see Dreamer, and I saw the trailer for Narnia.

[Josh the Jester]

Yea I might try to get me and my brothers to scare some trick or treaters...............man that'd be hilarious

[office]

I don't like Halloween because it's worshipping Satan which is how it got started. Halloween is in and of itself part of the devil, and I want nothing to do with it, period. At my church, we used to have something called Trunk or Treat where kids would dress up, (scary costumes, witch costumes, etc..were banned) and people would be parked in the parking lot giving out candy and homemade food and stuff like that. Somewhat fun, but I still don't like Halloween because of it's eeriness; reminds me too much of Harry Potter, and I think the devil can have Halloween.
Well,I see your point but nowdays there`s alot less people dressing up in evil costumes and more people dressing up in maybe what they want to do when they grow up or something like that.

[Aravis Kenobi]

Still. The main focus is on the evilness of it. Look at all the horror decorations and stuff. You don't call that evil? Oh, btw, thanks for making this thread because I was going to this afternoon.

[office]

Still. The main focus is on the evilness of it. Look at all the horror decorations and stuff. You don't call that evil? Oh, btw, thanks for making this thread because I was going to this afternoon.
Well,that is kind of evil but you have to focus beyond that and look at how much kids aren`t dressing up as ghosts and goblins but are dressing up as a charecter from there favorite movie.

[Aravis Kenobi]

I don't have a problem with that, I have a problem with the whole emphasis on Halloween. I hate it, and it gives me the creeps.

[office]

I don't have a problem with that, I have a problem with the whole emphasis on Halloween. I hate it, and it gives me the creeps.
Well,like I said earlier alot of people nowdays are dressing up as people they look up to and not ghosts etc.

[Miss.SunFlower]

Well,personally I don`t mind Halloween at all. It`s just a night for kids to pretend there something there not and get candy.
I don't see why anyone WOULD mind. It's just a for fun!

I'm still trick or treating this year!

[...Yeah.Its.Me...]

yeah like when i was little ppl would dress up as gost and stuff like that but know ppl just dress up like the bratz dolls or something like that they hardly ever dress up about halloweeen but i guess i cant really talkin im goin as a goth

[Miss.SunFlower]

I'm goin' as a hippie or.....somthin' like that.

[Aslan's Son]

I don't like Halloween because it's worshipping Satan which is how it got started. Halloween is in and of itself part of the devil, and I want nothing to do with it, period. At my church, we used to have something called Trunk or Treat where kids would dress up, (scary costumes, witch costumes, etc..were banned) and people would be parked in the parking lot giving out candy and homemade food and stuff like that. Somewhat fun, but I still don't like Halloween because of it's eeriness; reminds me too much of Harry Potter, and I think the devil can have Halloween.

Why does Halloween have to be about Satan? My church actually has a thing where we have games for kids at the mall (we allow scary costumes...but not ones like with blood or anything gory; witch costumes are allowed because we know that witches don't really dress like that and that's just how society's developed the idea of the way a witch looks over the centuries) and give out candy and stuff.

As for Halloween, I'm all for it, as it's just a holiday, a day for kids to have fun. My parents took my siblings and I trick-or-treating all the time, even though we stopped by scary-decorated houses to get candy. X_X Besides that, what the heck does Harry Potter have to do with Halloween?:confused:

[inkspot]

LOL -- at my church growing up, we used to have a haunted house with our carnival. When we were little we went through the haunted house, and as teenagers we got to be actors and be in it. I guess our church did not realize we were worshipping satan!

I think it's just a fun time for kids to dress up and play at being spooky. I don't think it's evil at all unless you're out there sacrificing black cats and praying to the devil. It's just a time to dress up and get candy. It's pretend! :)

[ramandu's_daughter]

I don't think it's worshipping Satan at all. It was originally created (I think this is why) because All Saints' Day is Nov. 1, the day after Halloween nowadays. People would dress up to scare away the demons. That's why it's scary and everything.

Trick or treating is probably just a whole different topic on origin.

We celebrate All Saint's Day (I'm Episcopalian so don't ask if I'm Catholic.) a little bit, but we don't dress up for Halloween to scare away the demons.

[Aslan's Son]

I don't think it's worshipping Satan at all. It was originally created (I think this is why) because All Saints' Day is Nov. 1, the day after Halloween nowadays. People would dress up to scare away the demons. That's why it's scary and everything.

Trick or treating is probably just a whole different topic on origin.

We celebrate All Saint's Day (I'm Episcopalian so don't ask if I'm Catholic.) a little bit, but we don't dress up for Halloween to scare away the demons.

It was based on an old Celtic holiday, where people would dress up and scare away evil spirits. The Catholic church turned it into All Hallow's Eve, a "Christianized" form of it, to try to turn people away from heathen ways. All Saint's Day is the day after it, of course--Eve/Day. :)

[office]

LOL -- at my church growing up, we used to have a haunted house with our carnival. When we were little we went through the haunted house, and as teenagers we got to be actors and be in it. I guess our church did not realize we were worshipping satan!

I think it's just a fun time for kids to dress up and play at being spooky. I don't think it's evil at all unless you're out there sacrificing black cats and praying to the devil. It's just a time to dress up and get candy. It's pretend! :)
Yeah,I agree.

[ProundNarnian]

Hey! I'm a christian, and i celebrate halloween... i don't think it' evil, depends on the way you look at it... i look at it as kids dressing up and enjoying candy lol it's cute!
Also, i don't think harry potter is against god, it's a fictional story for childen. what do yuo guys think about harry potter?

[ProundNarnian]

i have to get off my computer soon, can someone answer my post about HP?

[onlymystory]

On the Harry Potter thing there are several threads discussing that already.

Now as far the origins of Halloween go, Ged's got a good start. Halloween started with the Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celtic new year fell on November 1 which marked the end of summer and harvest and the start of a winter that was dark and cold. The Celts believe that on the night before the new year the line between the worlds of the dead and the living are blurred. It was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth at this time. The people burned crops and animals as sacrifices. Most wore costumes and attempted to tell each other's fortunes. One other important detail was relighting the hearth fires using the fire from the sacred bonfire. This was a hugely important time for Druids as they prophecied about the future at this time. Those prophecies were a lifeline in the cold winter months.
Interestingly enough, one of those prophecies was one that told of a god who would come to earth to save the world from death. Several other prophecies told about the coming of Christ, (odd for a country that was thousands of miles away from Israel and the Roman empire.)
Around AD 43, most of the Celtic lands were ruled by the Romans. the Romans combined two of their festivals with the Celtic celebration of Samhain. The first was Feralia which is a day that celebrates the passing of the dead. The second is a day for Pomoma (goddess of fruit and trees). Pomona's symbol is the apple. (that's where the bobbing for apples tradition comes in.)
By the 800s, Christianity had spread and Pope Boniface IV made November 1, All Saint's Day. the original middle english word for All Saints' Day is Alholowmesse, from which we get the term All-hallows Eve and then Halloween. so technically Halloween is All Saints' Eve. In AD 1000, the church made November 2, All Souls' Day to honor the dead. People dressed up in costumes as saints, angels, and devils and had bonfires and parades. The 3 celebrations of All Saints Eve, All Saints Day, and All souls Day were called Hallowmas.
So really, both Christians and pagans have celebrated the same idea behind Halloween, a day to honor and remember the dead. Today we have different groups of people who celebrate different aspects of Halloween. With the introduction of a materialistic society, Halloween (the night) has developed into less a celebration of the dead and merely a chance for celebration.

[Neevil]

Hmm... I think I agree with Aravis on this. My parents won't let me celebrate Halloween, because of its origin. And I agree with them (although I admit I've always wanted to go trick or treating, just because I love wearing costumes :D). I know for me, sometimes I get annoyed when athesists and people of other religions celebrate Christmas. Christmas is a Christian holiday. When people celebrate something that they don't even believe in, I think that's just dumb, and self-contradictory, too. So I think it would be kinda herectical of me if I celebrated Halloween, because I do not like when nonChristians celebrate Christmas.

[Aravis Kenobi]

There's an episode of Adventures of Odyssey (a radio drama from Focus on the Family) called, What We Gonna Do About Halloween? And it talks about the origins of the holiday. I'll try to find a plot summary and post it here.

[office]

There's an episode of Adventures of Odyssey (a radio drama from Focus on the Family) called, What We Gonna Do About Halloween? And it talks about the origins of the holiday. I'll try to find a plot summary and post it here.
I might have been reading one of thr adventures in oddessy books! But it was the first one.

[Aravis Kenobi]

Here's the plot summary. Click on the link: http://www.whitsend.org/library/searchdet.cfm?type=A&article=602

[Miss.SunFlower]

thats a very long summary.

[Aravis Kenobi]

It gives a very good summary of the episode, which is a great episode of the show.

[Jadee]

Uh...I think it is fun but I'm not trying to be with Satan or anything. I just like being scary and scaring others..and getting candy (yay). And I like wearing costumes. I do it for fun not to be with Satan :D

[Aslan's Son]

Hmm... I think I agree with Aravis on this. My parents won't let me celebrate Halloween, because of its origin. And I agree with them (although I admit I've always wanted to go trick or treating, just because I love wearing costumes :D). I know for me, sometimes I get annoyed when athesists and people of other religions celebrate Christmas. Christmas is a Christian holiday. When people celebrate something that they don't even believe in, I think that's just dumb, and self-contradictory, too. So I think it would be kinda herectical of me if I celebrated Halloween, because I do not like when nonChristians celebrate Christmas.

Actually, Christmas too originated from a pagan holiday, believe it or not; the same situation applies. The Church transformed the pagan celebration of Saturnalia to accomodate the Christian faith.


The Romans had a winter celebration known as Saturnalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia). This festival was originally held on December 17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_17) and honored Saturn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_%28mythology%29), a god of agriculture. It recalled the "golden age" when Saturn ruled. In imperial times, Saturnalia was extended to seven days (December 17-23). Combined with festivals both before and after, the result was an extended winter holiday season. Business was postponed and even slaves feasted. There was drinking, gambling and singing naked. It was the "best of days," according to the poet Catallus.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#_note-Sempronia) With the coming of Christianity, Italy's Saturnalian traditions were attached to Advent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advent) (the forty days before Christmas). Around the 12th century, these traditions transferred again to the "twelve days of Christmas" (i.e. Christmas to Epiphany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany)).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#_note-Murray)

Northern Europe was the last part to Christianize, and its pagan celebrations had a major influence on Christmas. Scandinavians still call Christmas Jul (Yule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule)), originally the name of a twelve-day pre-Christian winter festival. Logs were lit to honor Thor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor), the god of thunder, hence the "Yule log." In Germany, the equivalent holiday is called Mitwinternacht (mid-winter night). There are also twelve Rauhnächte (harsh or wild nights).[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#_note-Reichmann) (Wikipedia)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia

[Lady Larien]

I only like Halloween because it is the one day of the year I can dress up in a cool and crazy costume and get loads of candy and get really hyper Hyper HYper HYPer HYPEr HYPER hypeR hypER hyPER hYPER HYPER HyPeR hYpEr!!!! lol

[Jadee]

I only like Halloween because it is the one day of the year I can dress up in a cool and crazy costume and get loads of candy and get really hyper Hyper HYper HYPer HYPEr HYPER hypeR hypER hyPER hYPER HYPER HyPeR hYpEr!!!! lol

Wow That is HyPeR HyPeR HyPeR lol what exactly do you do since you are that HyPeR on Halloween?

[Lady Larien]

ummmm what????? lol

[Jadee]

ummmm what????? lol
And that is what I thought when I read your hyper post :p

[Lady Larien]

i'm hyper a lot but not near as hyper as I am on halloween

[Narborg]

I dont think cheistans should callabate hallaween. When you look iy oragains, you see that its a callabration of evil. My chrch has a light party to teach kids about jesus.

[LifeMaiden]

Sometimes people forget about the pagan origins of Halloween, which I think was some festival called Samhain ( pronounced so-ween) originally. Then it became the all saint's eve thing.


Whatever you do, please, please...leave the black cats alone. A friend was telling me how on Halloween in her neighborhood, someone set a black cat on fire.

[Jadee]

Whatever you do, please, please...leave the black cats alone. A friend was telling me how on Halloween in her neighborhood, someone set a black cat on fire.

That is mean besides I hate cats..they always scratch me. I will leave them alone :)

[LifeMaiden]

That is mean besides I hate cats..they always scratch me. I will leave them alone :)


They scratch you? They probably know you don't like 'em ;)


I guess it's up to the individual family whether or not to celebrate Halloween...people these days largely think it's about getting as much candy as they can get :) rather than the origins ( pre Christian origins ) of the day itself.

[Jadee]

They scratch you? They probably know you don't like 'em ;)

Hey they were the ones who started it!! :p first my cousin's cat named Kitty-Bop (really fat cat), then my cousin's kitten name Taylor (Kitty-Bop's owner, she has like 13 cats), then that same cousin's cat named Butthead (same person..and I don't like it's name), then one more who I forgot and I'm afraid of them...I do like them, but not to get near them...:p forget I said "hate" I just don't like them anymore. I am a dog person :cool:

gtg ppl I was gonna write more about halloween but it is kinda late in CA and sorry I got off topic I will say what I was gonna say earlier later

[Ephinie]

I was never allowed to celebrate Holloween when I was growing up. Naturally, the first year I was in college, I went out trick or treating with all the other poor Christian kids who were never allowed to celebrate Holloween growing up. Many people thought we were weird to be trick or treating at ages of 18-22 or so... but we didn't care much.

The biggest objection to celebrating Holloween that I have heard from Christians is generally in regard to its pagan origins. However, EVERY Christian holiday that we celebrate these days has pagan origins... The origins of Christmas have already been pointed out. Easter, as well, was a pagan holiday that the church decided to use as the season in which we celebrate the ressurrection. And you can't get much more Christian than celebrating Easter...

The church combined Christian holidays with existing pagan holidays on purpose. They wanted to keep some semblance of order. Holloween, like every holiday, was Christianized. Therefore, it has no more to do with Satan or paganism than Christmas or Easter does. The difference is that, for some reason, it never caught on as a major holiday in the way that those other two did. Why this is, I'm not sure. The focus of it as its Christian coutnerpart just never really stuck as well.

[Lioness_Aslan]

We don't celebrate Halloween in the whole country. It's because Malta is Roman Catholic.

[LifeMaiden]

We don't celebrate Halloween in the whole country. It's because Malta is Roman Catholic.


I've wondered about it in other countries...good point. Do you think the Vatican will allow me candy if I knock on their door and say Trick or Treat? :D

[onlymystory]

I'm not sure why I'm rementioning this since when I tried to explain Halloween before it got ignored but if you go here http://www.narniafans.com/forum/showpost.php?p=634875&postcount=29 to my previous post you will see where halloween came from and how it has evolved into the celebration it is today.

[Afton]

I'm goin' as a hippie or.....somthin' like that.
thats what i was last year....and the year before that i was a mumba......and then i was an arab

[~JadisTheWhiteWitch~]

well I like Halloween I don't care what bad things they say about it Halloween is my favorite holiday cause I like dressing up and giving candy out to kids and going to Halloween Parites which dosen't mean I worship the devil I just like Halloween :)

[inkspot]

I'm not sure why I'm rementioning this since when I tried to explain Halloween before it got ignored but if you go here http://www.narniafans.com/forum/showpost.php?p=634875&postcount=29 to my previous post you will see where halloween came from and how it has evolved into the celebration it is today.
Thank you, OMS. That was very informative! And I can't see where celebrating Halloween with dressing up, candy and even ghost stories and haunted houses is too much of an affront to the faith.
:)

[The First Joke]

halloween is not the devils birthday, like some people think. its the day where kids frolic (sp?) around their 'hoods, dressed in weird clothes, asking for candy. uncoincidentally (in life there is no such thing as a coincidence!), All Saints Day is nov. 1. scare away bad spirits to make room for the good ones. again. not the devil's bday. he probably doesn't even have one.

[Wunderkind]

As a christian how do you feel about Halloween?
I like Halloween,as long as things don't go too far.

[Timberwolf]

Yeah, we don't celebrate Halloween, mostly because of the relation of what it really means, and we don't do trick or treating because of the 'trick' part. Some kids do nasty tricks on people's houses... :(

[Narborg]

I was never allowed to celebrate Holloween when I was growing up. Naturally, the first year I was in college, I went out trick or treating with all the other poor Christian kids who were never allowed to celebrate Holloween growing up. Many people thought we were weird to be trick or treating at ages of 18-22 or so... but we didn't care much.

The biggest objection to celebrating Holloween that I have heard from Christians is generally in regard to its pagan origins. However, EVERY Christian holiday that we celebrate these days has pagan origins... The origins of Christmas have already been pointed out. Easter, as well, was a pagan holiday that the church decided to use as the season in which we celebrate the ressurrection. And you can't get much more Christian than celebrating Easter...

The church combined Christian holidays with existing pagan holidays on purpose. They wanted to keep some semblance of order. Holloween, like every holiday, was Christianized. Therefore, it has no more to do with Satan or paganism than Christmas or Easter does. The difference is that, for some reason, it never caught on as a major holiday in the way that those other two did. Why this is, I'm not sure. The focus of it as its Christian coutnerpart just never really stuck as well.


There is a difrence between calabrating someting good which has some pagin oragins which have bean changes to christian meanings, and calabrating someting which calabrates evil and death.

[~JadisTheWhiteWitch~]

I don't care about the History of Halloween it means nothing to me I just like the holiday and the candy I get from it

[PeterC]

I just don't care. Halloween's just my day to get some candy, and dress up for fun. If I find something lethal in my candy, I'll just call the cops. See who's laughing then.

I don't like Halloween because it's worshipping Satan which is how it got started. Halloween is in and of itself part of the devil, and I want nothing to do with it, period. At my church, we used to have something called Trunk or Treat where kids would dress up, (scary costumes, witch costumes, etc..were banned) and people would be parked in the parking lot giving out candy and homemade food and stuff like that. Somewhat fun, but I still don't like Halloween because of it's eeriness; reminds me too much of Harry Potter, and I think the devil can have Halloween.

Your views on Halloween are too uptight. Lighten up, jeez.

[Solya]

and calabrating someting which calabrates evil and death.

And I suppose it doesn't help at all when I tell you that death is the beginning of another life? ;) Some pagans believe that Halloween (or Samhain as we like to call it) is one of the two times in the year where the veil between the worlds is thinner than usual. Because Samhain marks the beginning of the barren winter it is commonly assumed that there will be more bad than good spirits roaming the Earth around that time. By dressing up as those bad spirits you scare them away, so no evil comes and visits your home. ;)

Samhain literally means "summer's end" and for pagans it is the beginning of a new year. For us, it is a time for introspection and for coming face to face with our own views on mortality and death before going through the dark winter and then starting anew. As you can see, we do not celebrate evil. I think that many people associate death with evil... where, in fact, it is just the start of something new... and that this is why Samhain in particular is regarded as the feast of celebrating everything evil. Nothing could be less true than this particular viewpoint.

[Timberwolf]

Actually, we celebrate reformation day too, you could get as much candy and a lot more fun from that.

[Wunderkind]

I don't care about the History of Halloween it means nothing to me I just like the holiday and the candy I get from it
I don't care about the history much either..it's quite interesting to know it,though..but I don't eat candy so..:rolleyes: I just like the holiday.

[Parthian King]

I remember something one of my philosophy professors said regarding origins. He called it the "genetic fallacy" to attack an idea or practice because of its origins. In other words, just because something had a shady beginning (or genesis, hence "genetic") does not mean it's bad now. If we go that route, then we are all in big trouble from the time Adam and Eve bit into the forbidden fruit (though there's no evidence they went bobbing for it)! So whatever issue I do or don't have with something (in this case Halloween) has to do with what it has become today--not what it once was (though there may be a connection).

I have a lot of great childhood memories about Halloween. We had a safe neighborhood with lots of streets and kids, and who can argue with free candy and costumes? I loved the smells, colors, and flavors of the season--all good things, and good things come from God.

But that doesn't mean good things can't be misused. I am frankly alarmed by what Halloween has become. It seems the season is more and more an excuse to indulge in the macabre and the darkness of the spiritual world. I saw some ads last night on the "ABC Family" channel for the "13 Days of Halloween" (clearly a play--I would say a distortion--on the "12 Days of Christmas") that was absolutely chilling. The whimsical witches of my childhood have become villainous, violent teenage girls (all stunningly beautiful, of course). There is an emphasis on gore, on the occult, and on a celebration of evil for its own sake. (That kind of advertisement would have given me nightmares as a kid, and probably still does for some little ones watching the safe "family" version of ABC; the fact that many kids are now numb to such propaganda is perhaps telling.) It is a question of degree for me, and the degree to which things have been taken is extreme. It is one thing to poke fun at our mortality and put some goofy faces on a pumpkin (not to mention get free candy!); it is another entirely to wallow in a celebration of spiritual forces which are the enemies of God. That's my issue.

I think it is entirely appropriate to make the attempt to "Christianize" the holiday again, as was done with it before (seemingly without success), and with Christmas (which also seems increasingly in need of another baptism). Harvest parties, Reformation parties, All Saints parties are all great ideas. As the old rocker Larry Norman sang, "Why should the devil have all the good music?" The earth is the Lord's and its fulness. Pumpkins, apples, and the joy of little kids belongs to Him. We should claim it, and guard it, all at the same time.

[echoscot]

Wow, well thought out both PK and OMS. I really liked reading your history of the holiday, and PK I fully agree that while it is important to be familiar with history, we have to understand what the current reality is.

We need to be careful about creating stereotypes and attacking something on its appearance and not on its actual qualities.

[office]

Well I think it`s totally fine if it`s just one night of the year.

[James N.]

I don't like Halloween because it's worshipping Satan which is how it got started.

That's incorrect.
Here's a good article on the history of Halloween:

http://wilstar.com/holidays/hallown.htm

Halloween comes from several different traditions only 2 of which come from the Celts: the date and the dressing up part.

Trick or Treating actually came from an Irish Christian tradition.

Jack-o-Lanterns also comes from Christian Irish folklore.

Here's a great quote from the article:

"After all, the day itself is only as evil as one cares to make it."

[*Princess Rose*]

I like trik or treetin, but the idea of wearing stooped ruber costoomes SCARES me!
(sorry bout the mispelling stuff im just in that mood today)

[narniakween101]

we don't celebrate halloween. halloween and things kinda make me uncomfrotable because i dont like anything scary

[Wunderkind]

We do celebrate A LITTLE.But don't go trick or treating anymore.. ;)

[the black elf]

well i LOVE halloween coz its fun to do trick or treating exsept for the odd orcations when silly people throw eggs at ur home :( but apart from that i love it! :D

[Queen Swanwhite]

As a christian how do you feel about Halloween?

Well, my family and I don't celebrate it, because, if you think about it, it is worshipping the devil and demons. What's good about that?

As christians, we just carry on as normal, although we do sometimes give sweets the the 7 year olds who come knocking on our door at night. We don't criticise people for celebrating Halloween, we just stay out of it. :)

[office]

Well, my family and I don't celebrate it, because, if you think about it, it is worshipping the devil and demons. What's good about that?

As christians, we just carry on as normal, although we do sometimes give sweets the the 7 year olds who come knocking on our door at night. We don't criticise people for celebrating Halloween, we just stay out of it. :)
You should click on the link someone posted earlier and you`l find out that only two of the things about Halloween are evil and the rest are fine.

[inkspot]

Seriously, little kids in costumes getting treats is not worshipping the devil. It's just a fun thing for kids to do.

If you incorporate Satan worship into your halloween celebration, then of course, it is evil. But if you're just dressing up for the fun of it, then it's not. I think it's funny Christians get so freaked out about it.

[Lioness_Aslan]

Well we don't celebrate it here although we still try to stick some things on the wall (class) so that it won't be with the same boring old paint :p Halloween's a great excuse to decorate :D :p

[Queen Swanwhite]

Seriously, little kids in costumes getting treats is not worshipping the devil. It's just a fun thing for kids to do.

If you incorporate Satan worship into your halloween celebration, then of course, it is evil. But if you're just dressing up for the fun of it, then it's not. I think it's funny Christians get so freaked out about it.

It's the idea behind it. The kids are hardly meant to know. It's the fact that dressing up as ghosts or vampires etc. are all....demons in a way. I hope you get what I mean. It's the background. My family and I stay out of it, that's all.

[Samwise Gamgee]

Halloween is stupid and very vial. I hate it and our family really dosen't do it that offten any more. Dad likes to celibrate 'All Sanits day' instead

[Lioness_Aslan]

We do celebrate all saints day here and as most christians/catholics I really can't understand the meaning of halloween. Why and How was it invented?

[Copperfox]

Each Halloween for many years, I have bought gospel tracts, or even made up original ones of my own, and given them out _with_ candy. How often do non-Christian families come up to your door and LET you give them reading material about Jesus?

[inkspot]

Each Halloween for many years, I have bought gospel tracts, or even made up original ones of my own, and given them out _with_ candy. How often do non-Christian families come up to your door and LET you give them reading material about Jesus?
That's a great idea -- I will do that this year.
:)

[Aslan's Son]

We do celebrate all saints day here and as most christians/catholics I really can't understand the meaning of halloween. Why and How was it invented?

To quote OnlyMyStory:


On the Harry Potter thing there are several threads discussing that already.

Now as far the origins of Halloween go, Ged's got a good start. Halloween started with the Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celtic new year fell on November 1 which marked the end of summer and harvest and the start of a winter that was dark and cold. The Celts believe that on the night before the new year the line between the worlds of the dead and the living are blurred. It was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth at this time. The people burned crops and animals as sacrifices. Most wore costumes and attempted to tell each other's fortunes. One other important detail was relighting the hearth fires using the fire from the sacred bonfire. This was a hugely important time for Druids as they prophecied about the future at this time. Those prophecies were a lifeline in the cold winter months.
Interestingly enough, one of those prophecies was one that told of a god who would come to earth to save the world from death. Several other prophecies told about the coming of Christ, (odd for a country that was thousands of miles away from Israel and the Roman empire.)
Around AD 43, most of the Celtic lands were ruled by the Romans. the Romans combined two of their festivals with the Celtic celebration of Samhain. The first was Feralia which is a day that celebrates the passing of the dead. The second is a day for Pomoma (goddess of fruit and trees). Pomona's symbol is the apple. (that's where the bobbing for apples tradition comes in.)
By the 800s, Christianity had spread and Pope Boniface IV made November 1, All Saint's Day. the original middle english word for All Saints' Day is Alholowmesse, from which we get the term All-hallows Eve and then Halloween. so technically Halloween is All Saints' Eve. In AD 1000, the church made November 2, All Souls' Day to honor the dead. People dressed up in costumes as saints, angels, and devils and had bonfires and parades. The 3 celebrations of All Saints Eve, All Saints Day, and All souls Day were called Hallowmas.
So really, both Christians and pagans have celebrated the same idea behind Halloween, a day to honor and remember the dead. Today we have different groups of people who celebrate different aspects of Halloween. With the introduction of a materialistic society, Halloween (the night) has developed into less a celebration of the dead and merely a chance for celebration.


Hope that helps. :)

[Ephinie]

So apparently my roommate and I are going as Mary and Laura Ingalls for Halloween. Vampire Mary and Laura Ingalls, that is.

[Lucy the Marshwiggle]

Do you guys celebrate Halloween?

[Ephinie]

Do you guys celebrate Halloween?We are this year.

I grew up with no Halloween allowed. My Freshman year of college, I went trick or treating with a bunch of other students who were never allowed to growing up. I haven't really done anything for Halloween since then because I've always been busy on that day. This year my roommate and I have a couple of parties to go to, and we're going to go trick or treating in our neighborhood as well.

[Into the Wardrobe]

Thanks Onlymystory for the history part and Parthian King I loved your take on the subject.

Culturally we often see Halloween as a day for kids to dress up be it cute or other and to go get candy. We see it as a day to have fun getting into costumes and a good excuse to have a party. That's understandable and seemingly harmless. There are other factors to take into account though.

1) Most Christians are aware, or should be, that spiritual warfare is real. Satan is just as real as God. God is more powerful, but Satan shouldn't be underestimated as to what trouble can be caused in a person's life. He tempted Jesus and he will tempt us as well. Count on it. He also wants nothing more than to see each individual destroyed and away from God. He's going down and wants to take each of us with.

2) Now more than ever the decorations and propaganda on TV are showing things that would represent evil (witches, ghosts, vampires, etc, etc.) People are dressing up as things that would represent evil. Even if You choose not to focus on that, when trick or treating you can't control others and what you or your family is exposed to. Some people said that they haven't seen it...at least where I live in a huge city, I don't know how one could miss it. It's more common on typically family friendly stations...even Disney channel.

3)People can become desensitized to the propaganda around them. If you see it often enough it won't bug you as much. Some individuals think that everything from decorations to Harry Potter are fine and dandy...but they make things that represent evil look harmless. Spells aren't harmless, demons aren't harmless, Satan isn't harmless. We're commanded as Christians to not let Satan get a foothold. Excuses can be made for it all, but is it our right to possibly cause unbelievers to stumble in coming to know the Lord by our behavior? They see us playing with things that have a conotation of something ungodly...and then wonder if we really believe what we say.

4) The greatest commandment in the Bible is to Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength.(Deut. 6:4, Matt. 22:34-39, Mark 12: 28-29.)

Here's the thing. It doesn't matter what our culture or society thinks. It doesn't matter what seems harmless to us. As Christians we are called to be salt and light to the world around us which means that people should be able to look at our lives and see a difference between us and the world. If anyone is in Christ, then that person is a new creation (2 Corinthians 5: 17)...but can the rest of the world see that this is the case? Regardless...I can't help but think that celebrating a holiday for whatever reason where there are images around in decorations and in propaganda that would in any way promote Satan, anything evil, etc...that it would be a loving act toward God. To me it would seem like a slam in the Lord's face. That's just my opinion...but there it is. Culturally it seems ok...and people will choose to do what they want...but we can't have it both ways. We're in the world, but not of it. We either can serve the Lord wholeheartedly or not. For people who aren't Christians...well, they don't know any better. To those who are, they should. (James 4:4)

I wouldn't dislike at all anyone who does celebrate Halloween...that's between them and God. But, I've heard at length about things that go on that day. Children and animals are still sacrificed anually, things that represent evil are used in decorations showing kids that it isn't as dangerous as it really is...believe me I know that most of yall just want candy or just want to dress up and don't even think about the real gore that goes on...but is it worth it to treat God in a disrespectful, unloving manner? You decide for yourself. It's between you and Him. If you want candy go buy it. If you want to dress up as something cute...take someone's birthday party and make it a cute costume party or something. Dress up for the Prince Caspian premiere. But, as a believer for those who are...Turn off the cultural ideas and Turn on the spiritual ones. Think about what you do before you do it. Think about what the Lord would say about it. Think about how it may effect the eternity of the nonbelievers around you...there are some who may see it as hypocritical and you can't control what they think...only what you do.

I know some may not like my take on this topic...but I believe that believers today need to intentionally think about what they do and how it impacts not only their own lives...but how it impacts the Lord (He does have feelings that can be hurt) and others around them. You may be the only Christian that someone comes in contact with...what will they see in you? We can't control others, but we should be aware of what will cause them to stumble in their faith and then show love and mercy. Apart from just Halloween, we should think about what it means to be loving toward God and then act accordingly. We're called to be set apart. What society thinks is irrelevant in comparison to what God thinks.

Sorry about sounding preachy...I'm a theologian and pastor...force of habbit. I love you all and I care...both about you and even more about God. I don't mean to be judgemental...I just see what I see. Candy and costumes are fun and all...but I can't reconcile it with Halloween. I'd rather do what another suggested (sorry I can't remember who) and hand out Bible tracts...and maybe information about your local church and their kids programs as well. Holidays can be fun...but we need to be conscious of who we are and what we're doing in the midst of it all.

[Sir Benjamin the Lion]

Each Halloween for many years, I have bought gospel tracts, or even made up original ones of my own, and given them out _with_ candy. How often do non-Christian families come up to your door and LET you give them reading material about Jesus?
We do that when they come to our door. :D

[inkspot]

I got my little Christian storybooks today, and I am taping them to the candy treats tonight. I am so excited about Halloween!
:)
I got a little jack o lantern. Sweet.

[Solya]

Happy Halloween to all of you. :) I know many of you do not celebrate this day, but my wishes of joy for all of you in the upcoming year are not any less heartfelt. It's a time to dismiss the negative and accept the positive... not just for pagans such as myself, but also for everyone else. The party has so far been amazing and I hope to feel this enlightened positivity for many days to come!

[Ephinie]

Happy Halloween to all of you. :) I know many of you do not celebrate this day, but my wishes of joy for all of you in the upcoming year are not any less heartfelt. It's a time to dismiss the negative and accept the positive... not just for pagans such as myself, but also for everyone else. The party has so far been amazing and I hope to feel this enlightened positivity for many days to come!Happy Halloween right back.

[Miss Freckles]

i'm also a non-halloween though i'm pro-sweets and pro-dressing up =)

there's a cool (unfortunately german) homepage and every year they have a little clip that you can send via eMail to your friends and that tells you that someone has thrown a pumpkin at you and that october 31st is ... urm ... i'll just call it martin-luther-day (it's reformation day in german)
that's a cool alternative as well!

and today i'm glad i live in a big city cuz it means a lot less kids begging for sweets =)

[Morgan the Traveler]

I don't celebrate Halloween, it's a satanic/pagan holiday. That means I have NOTHING to do with it. No dress up, no jack-o-lanterns, no candy, no nuthin'.

[inkspot]

I don't celebrate Halloween, it's a satanic/pagan holiday. That means I have NOTHING to do with it. No dress up, no jack-o-lanterns, no candy, no nuthin'.
If you look back over this thread, you'll see the roots of Halloween have been discussed, as well as the roots of other holidays. Christmas and Easter, co-opted pagan holiday seasons, and made them Christian. To reject Halloween because of its checquered past is not necessary as long as you aren't actually worshipping Satan.
:)

[Parthian King]

The celebration of the benign aspects of Halloween is for me akin to Paul's injunctions concerning food sacrificed to idols. It is a question of conscience, and if done should be done circumspectfully considering the weaker consciences of others (both Christians and unbelievers). Still, can anyone here imagine eating meat that had been sacrificed to Apollo? Yet Paul said, "The earth is the Lord's and its fullness." In other words, Apollo is a vain thing, and the meat really belongs to God. Why should the pagans get to eat tenderloin while the children of the King go hungry (in those days, all slaughtered meat was sacrificed to something)? Likewise, why should my kids not be able to have some sweets, or see how neat a lit, carved pumpkin looks? That's a cool idea, whoever thought of it.

Personally, I do carve pumpkins for the neighborhood kids. I put a cross in one, and happy faces on the others (nothing scary), with their eyes looking to the side where I put the "cross pumpkin." I smile as I give them candy. They are little kids. (My baby granddaughter is dressing as a daisy this year, purely for fun and photo-ops.) But equally I shun the filth that comes across the TV in the name of Halloween, as I noted earlier.

I used to be a "total ban" guy myself. But I have eased up, even as I have become stricter on myself in other areas. I am not knocking anyone either way for whether they celebrate or don't. I'm just saying Christians have been highjacking pagan holidays for evangelistic purposes from the get go. I want to be known for what I'm for, not just what I'm against.

[Morgan the Traveler]

There is no 'alternative' Halloween. You can pretty it up as much as you want and make it 'fun', but that doesn't mean God would be pleased with it.

[inkspot]

There is no 'alternative' Halloween. You can pretty it up as much as you want and make it 'fun', but that doesn't mean God would be pleased with it.
So, you don't celebrate Christmas or Easter, either, considering those are "prettied up" pagan holidays? I know some Christians who don't, but it seems like you miss out on a lot of the joy of the holidays that way.

For Halloween, I don't take part in the ghoulish aspects of it as PK mentioned, and I agree it is a matter of conscience for Christians ... but like PK said, why shouldn't Christians be able to have some fun, too? When I was a kid, Halloween was grand with the jack o lanterns and costumes, and I never did worship the devil -- I would feel sad to deny my kids that fun. :(

Tonight I have my candy taped to little kids' gospel literature, and I can't wait to see all the little beggars! I hope there are some good costumes...

[Parthian King]

Well, Morgan, it's not an alternative. It's recognizing that the Church for centuries has 1) recognized that people will celebrate at certain times of the year, and 2) that in those celebrations there are both malignant and benign practices. The historical community of faith has long held that there is nothing harmful whatever in "drafting" the benign aspects in order to Christianize a community or society. This is what happened with the pagan celebration of Yule. Missionaries complained they couldn't get their converts to stop celebrating on Dec 25. So the Church said, "Have 'em celebrate Christ's birth then, if they must celebrate." Now, unless you don't celebrate Christmas at all (i.e., no feasting, no sweets, no holly or lit trees, no gifts, and even no use of the date Dec 25th), then you are in fact participating in a "prettied up" pagan holiday (by your definition). Perhaps you don't, I don't know.

Ironically, the same is true of Oct 31/Nov 1. All Saints Day isn't much anymore, but it once was a huge, important feast day. It wasn't the pagans that had the crafty strategy, and did the highjacking, but rather the Christians who highjacked a pagan holiday for their purposes. So the pagans are trying to retake it (or have already). So what? In the tradition of my forebears, I'll keep on plugging away.

Of course, this goes to deeper things. Paul quoted the pagan Greek philosophers in his writings to make a point (ironically, the phrase "bad company corrupts good morals" from 1 Cor 15 is pagan Greek philosophy!). Jesus is painted by Paul and John as the Roman triumphator--the equivalent in our day of "King of the Mardi Gras." Scholars call this "plundering the Egyptians"--taking back from them good ideas, practices, concepts in order to more effectively communicate Christ to them.

Of course, Lewis was all for this, with his free use of Bacchus and other characters from Greek mythology. Has he likewise been guilty of "prettying things up"?

[Lila]

Well, my parents always took us to our church for this festival thingy. It was fun, and it didn't have any scary stuff involved. But we recently changed churches. :( My parents are letting us go trick-or-treating tonight beacuse our friends invited us to go with them, and they are good strong Christians. The good thing is, my parents aren't letting us dress up as witches or ghosts or anything.

My opinion on Halloween is that it's a disgusting 'holiday', but it's a nice thing if you are a Christian and you just want to dress up as something for a night... something other than something scary. :D

[Solya]

Now, unless you don't celebrate Christmas at all (i.e., no feasting, no sweets, no holly or lit trees, no gifts, and even no use of the date Dec 25th), then you are in fact participating in a "prettied up" pagan holiday (by your definition). Perhaps you don't, I don't know.

Actually, the more common date for Yule is Dec 21st. :) It can, however, be celebrated later than this as well. Holly is indeed important on that day because the story goes that the Holly King battled with the Oak King on Yule. The Oak King was victorious and thus brought hope back into the world in the form of all the lit candles. They call Christmas the "Feast of Light" nowadays because Christ came to Earth and brought hope to us as well. I guess Christians in the past saw the parallel between the story and therefore decided to place Christ's birth on this day. Light is brought back to Earth in both of the stories. The difference between the stories is probably that the Pagan holiday tells the tale of the cycle of a year, whereas the Christian holiday is basically a mark for the birth of a new religion.

I don't celebrate Halloween, it's a satanic/pagan holiday.

It alarms me to hear that you use the word 'satanic' in combination with 'pagan'. I personally do not consider myself to be linked to satanic things just because I am a Pagan. It sounds like 'satanic' and 'pagan' are two sides of one and the same coin to you, which couldn't be less true.

[inkspot]

From a Christian viewpoint, any faith which doesn't recognize the Trinity and salvation through Christ (as the Son of God) has to be considered off base or pointing in the opposite direction from God, so in that way, Paganism, like every other "false faith" could be considered satanic, as it turns people away from faith in Christ. This is only from a Christian viewpoint; if you do not follow Jesus as Savior, then of course, this does not apply.

[Solya]

Yes, most Christians would see that as true. :) It doesn't necessarily turn us away from Christ, but it does make us view Christ differently and so I guess my faith doesn't always correspond with Christianity because of that. But it still does irk me gigantically to be named in one breath with Satan because my religion doesn't even acknowledge Satan in the sense of the word Satan. We recognise evil, but don't call it Satan and don't give it the shape of any kind of being. It seems a bit idiotic to compare Satan-worshippers to Pagans. They've got a completely different sense of reality. :rolleyes:

[Parthian King]

Sure, Solya. But as Ink has said, that which denies the exclusive divinity of Christ is considered "antichrist" by Scripture. Furthermore, religions and practices that employ magical arts in anyway are necessarily tied to the spiritual forces of darkness by process of elimination, since it surely isn't the Holy Spirit behind such incantations."Satan" is indeed a Judeo-Christian name given to that spiritual force that stands opposed to Christ and also empowers and drives those who stand opposed to Him.

I am not surprised you are irked by this association. The claim that salvation is through Christ alone, and all others--especially those who practice magical arts--are eternally doomed cannot strike you in a warm and fuzzy way. But as POTW mentioned to me recently in a face to face conversation, there is a whole lot of misconception about what Christianity is floating around out there. It is Christianity, not "Niceanity." Christ is love and truth--not insipidity and negotiation. He is far more interested in telling the truth and embodying the truth as it is than He is with getting folks to like Him. The Cross and its claims by nature are offensive, and if I reframed the gospel in such a way so that it were not, the message would no longer be the gospel.

Therefore, to be true to my Lord, His message, and myself, as well as to be the most charitable (if not sweetly diplomatic) to you, I will speak these truths unvarnished.

[Copperfox]

If we think of "north" as moving toward Christ, then it's true that many Christians oversimplify by saying that anyone not going due north is going due south ("south" being conscious, intentional devil-worship). A pagan (or Hindu, or others) may then say, "No, silly, I'm going east!" On the other hand, it remains true that you can go east or west all your life and never get any farther north--which is a pity if it turns out that the real happiness is to be found to the north.

[Solya]

I know there isn't anything warm and fuzzy about Christianity, just as there isn't anything nice and frivolous about Paganism either. :) We don't always see eye to eye because of our generally different views on what truly defines being a child of God, but don't you think it goes just a tad too far to necessarily tie us to the spiritual forces of darkness because we use stuff you describe as a "magical practice"?

I personally see nothing wrong with asking God and God's angels to help us out right now in the time when the veil between the worlds is thinner. :) Today has been a complete and utter nightmare for me because of the negativity that's slowly seeping through the gaps in the veil, and basically the only thing which stands against it is the combined force of the sacred circle of my religion and the prayers any Christian would be able to use just as much.

Yes, I am irked by the association of my religion with dark forces. I know there's some people in my religion who don't look upon Christianity kindly, but I've personally always kept Christianity quite dear to my heart. I guess I do not always agree with the religion as such, but that doesn't mean I show it any less respect. The thing which strikes me, however, is that I've just spent my day fighting against these dark forces and am then named in one breath with these things.

[Parthian King]

I know there isn't anything warm and fuzzy about Christianity, just as there isn't anything nice and frivolous about Paganism either. :) We don't always see eye to eye because of our generally different views on what truly defines being a child of God, but don't you think it goes just a tad too far to necessarily tie us to the spiritual forces of darkness because we use stuff you describe as a "magical practice"?

Let's remember, for the sake of things, that this thread is about Halloween and its practice. But to quickly answer, I'll say this: 1) I know that as a classic pagan you do not claim to worship Satan and are not a satanist. For purely academic reasons I agree the distinction should be clarified. 2) No, I don't think it goes too far to associate spell casting, divination, or consultation with the spiritual world other than specifically in the name of Christ with spiritual forces of darkness. The Scriptures of my faith do so, and therefore so do I. I am not arguing the point. I am declaring it.

I personally see nothing wrong with asking God and God's angels to help us out right now in the time when the veil between the worlds is thinner. :) Today has been a complete and utter nightmare for me because of the negativity that's slowly seeping through the gaps in the veil, and basically the only thing which stands against it is the combined force of the sacred circle of my religion and the prayers any Christian would be able to use just as much.

Today's world is a nightmare because of human sin, which is rebellion against God and His law. This rebellion takes a variety of forms. That you attempt to bridge the gap between fallen humanity and God is natural, but also makes you like every other religious practioner from scores of other religions. Christianity holds that the only real way to bridge the gap is by God coming to us in the form of Christ. Again, not arguing, but declaring.

Yes, I am irked by the association of my religion with dark forces. I know there's some people in my religion who don't look upon Christianity kindly, but I've personally always kept Christianity quite dear to my heart. I guess I do not always agree with the religion as such, but that doesn't mean I show it any less respect. The thing which strikes me, however, is that I've just spent my day fighting against these dark forces and am then named in one breath with these things.

If you truly hold Christianity dear (and I appreciate the sentiment even as I recognize it as sentiment), then you will appreciate it for what it is, on its terms. Jesus Christ brooks no rivals and takes second place to no one or no thing. He does not ask for favor or affection, but rather commands obedience. He is Lord of all, and is rather in a position to take this posture. That He is absolutely good and kind makes these His commands unburdensome.

The association between your current religion and the forces of darkness is something mentioned in Scripture and faithfully held by all true Christians. It is doctrinal and not personal, since at the same time our faith rejects such practices it also recognizes its practitioners as made in God's image and potential heirs of eternal life in Christ. Me (or anyone else) saying your pagan practices place you in the camp of darkness is a recognition of the futility of a life without Christ--one that we have all experienced and have been delivered from. It is not a judgment upon your motives so much as it is a Scriptural evluation of your condition, i.e., alive in the flesh but separated from Christ through a failure to yield your will to Him and Him alone.

This is Christianity. I could no more change it than I could change my DNA, the color of the sky, or the rising of the sun tomorrow. As the Word says, the gospel is the scandalon--the Rock of offense. We fall upon it and are broken, that He may restore us, or otherwise it falls on us and we are crushed. There is no middle way. I declare, I do not argue.

[Copperfox]

Here's another attempt to help clarify things with an illustration:

In "Star Wars: Attack of the Clones," Jar-Jar Binks did not intend any evil when he made his proposal in the Senate to give Palpatine the authority to institute a clone army. He had been deceived and manipulated by Palpatine, whose true nature he did not suspect. As Mr. Lewis observed, evil could not get anywhere if it could not use elements of goodness.

I'm sure that pagans don't get up in the morning saying "How can I do evil today?" (Prince Rilian in "The Silver Chair," as long as he was under the spell of the Green Witch, sincerely believed her to be good, so that any action he took in her service would not be meant as evil on his part.) But on the Christian view, pagans are deceived, unaware of whose interests their belief-system really serves. Satan doesn't care if you think he's the Earth Mother, or Hern the Horned God, or Odin, or Zeus, or Amaterasu--provided he can prevent you from knowing the ACTUAL Deity. Satan will tell you what he figures you want to hear. Christians will do their best to tell you what you NEED to hear.

[tottyfruitty]

well in my opinion halloween isnt something we should really celebrate. Dressing up as withces and vampires and ghosts and things like that doesnt really seem like a sort of thing a Christian should be doing. celebrating evil spirits and stuff like that. idont celebrate halloween and some may say that dressing up does nit mean you are evil but you are contributing to it and encouraging others saying that it is okay! i dunno really buts thats what i think!

[Skandar's Girl]

my parents hate it but they still let me go! I love halloween it's fun. oh yeah... HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!! :)

[inkspot]

PK has made a good explanation for Christian thought, and Copperfox makes a good point, too -- people who aren't satanists don't want themselves associated with satanists, but from a Christian viewpoint, every religion which puts faith in anyone or anything other than Christ is, de facto, of Satan.

Just because you don't worship Satan by name, from a Christian point of view, you are worshipping him when you worship anyone but the one true God, even if it's worship of your TV or your boyfriend, or nature, whatever -- if you worship it instead of Christ, it is evil for you to do so, from a Christian perspective.

And as long as the devil can keep you from worshipping Christ, he's happy if you go on saying you don't worship the devil -- what does he care?

Not that I think you worship the devil, Solya! I know in your mind, your faith is very far removed from devil-worship. But, if you can consider the Christian viewpoint, it's not such a stretch.

Tottyfruitty, did you never read fairy tales or pretend to be Cinderella or what have you (or read Shakespeare or enjoy the Wizard of Oz)? All those stories are about witches and things, but most people don't consider them Satanic. I wonder why Halloween, in particular, comes in for all the grief? It's just make-believe and treats unless you make something more of it, I think.

[office]

Well Happy Halloween and Reformation Day!

[Crunchine]

Tottyfruitty, did you never read fairy tales or pretend to be Cinderella or what have you (or read Shakespeare or enjoy the Wizard of Oz)? All those stories are about witches and things, but most people don't consider them Satanic. I wonder why Halloween, in particular, comes in for all the grief? It's just make-believe and treats unless you make something more of it, I think.

I completly agree. It is just a day for everyone to dress up, pretend to be someone or something they are not, or wish they were, in my case a silver sparkly faerie *shakes wings* lol. these people get candy, and giving is a major part of being a Christian. As a Christian, I believe that as long as you think of Halloween as just a fun hoilday with costumes and candy, you are fine. We should also stop and thank God for our imaginations that allow us to dream up and be these wonderful characters. :)

[~Grateful * Surrender~]

As a christian how do you feel about Halloween?

seeing how everything about Halloween originated from pagen believes and demon worship I think Christians should stay away from it as much as possible. if anyone would like me to elaborate on what kind of worship and richuals go with what at halloween I will explain.

[The First Joke]

in school, we talked about the halloween traditions and their origins. yes, most have their roots in the celtic culture, however those traditions continued with more modern ireland which is majorly catholic... so i think it's harmless. however some wicca people do weird stuff on halloween

[~Grateful * Surrender~]

in school, we talked about the halloween traditions and their origins. yes, most have their roots in the celtic culture, however those traditions continued with more modern ireland which is majorly catholic... so i think it's harmless. however some wicca people do weird stuff on halloween

you think that all the deco that goes akong with Halloween is fine for those who perfess to loving Jesus?

[The First Joke]

decoration?

[~Grateful * Surrender~]

decoration?
such as skeletons hangng from trees, whitches, gohsts, grim preepers, grave stones I could go on but I think I got my point across.

[The First Joke]

i think it's okay. and so does the priest at my school.

[Aslan's Son]

seeing how everything about Halloween originated from pagen believes and demon worship I think Christians should stay away from it as much as possible. if anyone would like me to elaborate on what kind of worship and richuals go with what at halloween I will explain.

As has been stated before, if you're going to not celebrate Halloween because it originates from pagan traditions, then you might as well stop putting up Christmas trees at Christmas time and having Easter egg hunts. Christmas itself originates from the pagan holiday of Saturnalia, which was a Greco-Roman festival honoring the god Saturn. Many of the holidays Christians celebrate originated from pagan traditions, but the Church changed them to accomodate the Christian faith. I think it'd be wise to read over the thread before making any assumptions. ;)

[Ephinie]

I went trick or treating with my roommate, and we got lots of candy. Mine is almost all gone now, though, because I brought it to work with me. Everyone at my job except for me is a guy... and bringing a bag of candy to a bunch of guys is like letting a two year old loose on Christmas morning.

We dressed up as Mary and Laura Ingalls. It was great. There was this one house that had a giant spider hanging from the tree right above the entrance to the walkway to the door, and it was attached to a long string that was held by a lady sitting on the porch. She would let go of it whenever kids walked by, dropping the spider onto their heads. It was wild. And she was dressed up as a peach because she was pregnant. I thought, "Now that's creative."

[~Grateful * Surrender~]

As has been stated before, if you're going to not celebrate Halloween because it originates from pagan traditions, then you might as well stop putting up Christmas trees at Christmas time and having Easter egg hunts. Christmas itself originates from the pagan holiday of Saturnalia, which was a Greco-Roman festival honoring the god Saturn. Many of the holidays Christians celebrate originated from pagan traditions, but the Church changed them to accomodate the Christian faith. I think it'd be wise to read over the thread before making any assumptions. ;)

I know that many or should I say nearly all the holidays we celebrate are of paganistic origin however Halloween for me holds a much stronger tie to it's beginnings. I have a very strong problem with all the decor that goes up and the fact that Hospitals now provide free X-rays for the candy that children collect to find if it may have needles stuck in it. We brush it off with nearly no thought yet in that we give way to darkness. Halloween is the day of celebrating the dead and it still is in ways so why should we take part in that?

I am very adamant about this for several reasons some of which I already stated others are because I grew up in a very superstitious country where spirits were not uncommon and things that were demonic and dark took place often. They too celebrated the Halloween or The Day of the Dead and on that day a lot seemed to happen. It was not coincidence or chance and it was very real.

[The First Joke]

As has been stated before, if you're going to not celebrate Halloween because it originates from pagan traditions, then you might as well stop putting up Christmas trees at Christmas time and having Easter egg hunts. Christmas itself originates from the pagan holiday of Saturnalia, which was a Greco-Roman festival honoring the god Saturn. Many of the holidays Christians celebrate originated from pagan traditions, but the Church changed them to accomodate the Christian faith. I think it'd be wise to read over the thread before making any assumptions. ;)

that's so true! i say it's tradition and no one is really worshipping false gods.

[Parthian King]

I'm actually somewhat in agreement with both sides here. Grateful Surrender makes some points, because it seems that Halloween has reverted to its pre-"All Hallow's Eve" days and in many ways is once again practically Samhain for many people. It does, in fact and in practice, maintain its pagan roots more strongly than Christmas or Easter do. Grateful Surrender's posture is based on practice.

Previously I have stated (and continue to hold) that when it comes to the concept of Christianizing a pagan celebration, there is solid ground to stand on. That's why I do not have a problem with handing out candy, seeing my grandaughter in a daisy outfit, and carving a pumpkin with a cross in it (along with a couple with happy faces), because these things don't glorify the Enemy and are totally benign. However, if I were to hang a faux corpse from a tree, place macabre music from a window, and answer the door in a Dracula outfit, I think that would be glorifying the Enemy. Forgive the proverbial phrase, but the devil is in the details of how you do it all. if we are going to Christianize it, let's do it. If not, we are merely using the license of Christian freedom to dabble in worldy practices.

[inkspot]

How 'bout those decorations of a witch who flew **SPLAT!** into a tree or the side of a house? Those are pretty funny, cuz, you know, the witch crashed. tee-hee.

I had a bunch of Disney princesses here last night, one bumble bee, a few scary rubber masks, a little devil (who could not have looked less devilish if he tried), a lot of super heroes, a Freddy Krueger who found it too hot to keep his mask on, so he just looked like a kid in a long sweater and porkpie hat ... I thought they were all cute as the dickens.

[Parthian King]

How 'bout those decorations of a witch who flew **SPLAT!** into a tree or the side of a house? Those are pretty funny, cuz, you know, the witch crashed. tee-hee.

I had a bunch of Disney princesses here last night, one bumble bee, a few scary rubber masks, a little devil (who could not have looked less devilish if he tried), a lot of super heroes, a Freddy Krueger who found it too hot to keep his mask on, so he just looked like a kid in a long sweater and porkpie hat ... I thought they were all cute as the dickens.

Um, that provokes a question I've had for a long time: Just who are these dickens that become the standard of relative cuteness, eh? :p

[QA48]

I wasn't impressed at all by the customes that kids wore last night. Some of them didn't even try by saying "Trick or Treat"!

I was disappointed.

Which ones were the worst?

I have to say these to girls that came by dressed as any other urban girl we see on the streets. My mom was like, "Who are you supposed to be?"

They were like, "I'm a diva, and I'm a model" *girls snapped their fingers* :rolleyes:

[inkspot]

OK, I had one group of young teens who were all dressed up with their hair done up and carrying their cell phones -- I assumed they were supposed to be Paris Hilton or something? That was a dumb costume. And one boy just had on a rugby shirt and shorts, knee socks and tennis shoes, and glasses. He said he was supposed to be a nerd -- but I bet it was just what he wore to school that day. That was a bad costume, not even a costume. One little Spider Man had his mum pushing him in a stroller, all the way up to the door, then he got out to ring the bell and beg for candy. I thought that was weak; if he had to have mum push him around, he should at least have walked up the entry way, rather than dragging her all the way to the door! He stood up for a total of three steps, then dropped back into his stroller. This is a four or five year old and that's all the energy he has?!

[Lila]

There was this girl I saw who was dressed up as Hannah Montana and we were chasing her all over the neighborhood. I feel bad for her.

[~Grateful * Surrender~]

I'm actually somewhat in agreement with both sides here. Grateful Surrender makes some points, because it seems that Halloween has reverted to its pre-"All Hallow's Eve" days and in many ways is once again practically Samhain for many people. It does, in fact and in practice, maintain its pagan roots more strongly than Christmas or Easter do. Grateful Surrender's posture is based on practice.

Previously I have stated (and continue to hold) that when it comes to the concept of Christianizing a pagan celebration, there is solid ground to stand on. That's why I do not have a problem with handing out candy, seeing my grandaughter in a daisy outfit, and carving a pumpkin with a cross in it (along with a couple with happy faces), because these things don't glorify the Enemy and are totally benign. However, if I were to hang a faux corpse from a tree, place macabre music from a window, and answer the door in a Dracula outfit, I think that would be glorifying the Enemy. Forgive the proverbial phrase, but the devil is in the details of how you do it all. if we are going to Christianize it, let's do it. If not, we are merely using the license of Christian freedom to dabble in worldy practices.

With you I agree.

[Queen Swanwhite]

I don't want to celebrate Halloween. I grew up never celebrating it, not because I wasn't allowed to, I just didn't. The sad thing is, Halloween is a feast for the devil and a lot of people are celebrating it. I don't agree with it because it is a pagan festival, like Christmas and Easter (who's origins come from Paganism). Halloween is completely wrong, although I don't have a problem really with little kids coming asking for sweets. I just turn them away politely. I don't interfere with people who celebrate Halloween, I keep myself to myself and I have my own reasons for not celebrating it...and besides, I might go home after fireworks with nightmares! lol :D :D jk jk

[The First Joke]

Christmas and Eastes do not have roots in paganism! CHRISTmas (do you know a man named Jesus CHRIST?) mas means day so it's christ's day. easter is commemorating Jesus rising from the dead.

conveniently, halloween occurs before the Catholic feast of all saints (november 1)

[Aslan's Son]

Christmas and Eastes do not have roots in paganism! CHRISTmas (do you know a man named Jesus CHRIST?) mas means day so it's christ's day. easter is commemorating Jesus rising from the dead.

conveniently, halloween occurs before the Catholic feast of all saints (november 1)

The Christian traditions of Christmas and Easter don't originate from pagan traditions, but things like the Christmas tree w/presents and Easter egg hunts do.

[The First Joke]

yeah. same w/ halloween!

[Sunrise]

tortilla flat, read the rest of this thread. The day we celebrate as Christmas was originally celebrated as the winter solstice by pagan cultures. When the Christian church spread the gospel into these cultures, it "Christianized" the celebration in order to make the transition easier for the native people. The day was celebrated long before we started calling it CHRISTmas. Most historians agree that the birth of Jesus probably didn't happen anywhere near Dec. 25th, although it really doesn't matter, of course - the fact that he was born is more important than the date.

Same with Easter. It was originally a holiday celebrating the return of Spring. Hence the whole thing about eggs - a symbol of rebirth, honoring the Goddess figure popular in pagan cultures. Again, the Church, rather than telling people they couldn't celebrate, gave them something real to celebrate about - the resurrection of our Lord.

I think it's a perfect example of Lewis's own philosophy that there were a lot of good things about paganism - the "good dreams" to which he referred. In a sense, the Church redeemed these holidays. The fact that our secular culture has nabbed them back - generally in the service of the great gods of greed and consumerism - is to our own shame.

[ArrowsOfSilver]

There are good things about paganism.
Either that or I'm pure evil.

[Twilight]

I'm fine with it, honestly, as long as it remains innocent, so no witchcraft of anything like that. I've gone trick-or-treating before and most do it just for the candy, right? There's no harm in that, except cavaties. :p

[ArrowsOfSilver]

There is no such thing as bad magic, Twilight. Know that.

[Lucy the Marshwiggle]

If your a paganist, then who do you worship?

[ArrowsOfSilver]

I worship the Mother and Father. (Lady and Lord.)

[Lucy the Marshwiggle]

I worship the Mother and Father. (Lady and Lord.)
You're parents? :confused:

[ArrowsOfSilver]

The ultimate parents.
We come from them, we worship them, and we aspire to be like them.

[waterhogboy]

I used to hate being the only kid in my class who wasn't allowed to go trick or treating on Halloween, but actually I'm glad I was never allowed after all.

The way I look at it, I celebrate Christmas because its the time when Jesus Christ was born into this world to save our sins. I enjoy getting presents eating mince pies and drinking mulled wine too, but thats not the 'basis' for clebration.

If I look the same way Halloween, I may have enjoyed getting sweets from friendly neighbours and perhaps getting up to a little bit of harmless mischief, but I wold have been celebrating the basis of the festival by doing so. The basis being, a time when pagan druids would come round to peoples houses and curse them if they didnt give em what they wanted, and when spirits are wandering around or whatever. Whats to celebrate there!? I would argue nothing, and so I don't celebrate Halloween.

[ArrowsOfSilver]

THAT, sir, is untrue.

Druids merely believed that they could contact departed souls on Halloween, or Samhain, because the veil between the worlds was thinnest.

[waterhogboy]

THAT, sir, is untrue.

Druids merely believed that they could contact departed souls on Halloween, or Samhain, because the veil between the worlds was thinnest.

Oh no, it is true. On Halloween back in the Dark Ages, the druids would go round to peoples houses and ask for stuff (firewood, food etc...) and if nothing was given the household would be cursed. Its where trick or treating originates from!

[ArrowsOfSilver]

I would think the word of a Druid would be more dependable.
That would be impossible for a true Druid, as the Threefold Law forbids harming others, magically or otherwise.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

"Impossible" is an interesting word, when it comes to the human will. "Forbidden", certainly. "Unlikely", perhaps. Even "unheard of" - but "impossible" would be - well, impossible. Even the most well-trained druid could exercise his will and do something against the rules.

The truth is, druidism was an orally maintained religion. Since so little of it was written down, what it was all about was largely lost through the centuries. Most of what people think they know about druidism was actually invented by the Romantics of the 18th and 19th centuries. Of course, they claimed the lore was millenia old, to add a patina of authenticity (and romanticism ;),) but in truth, druidism is as closed a book as Mithraism is.

[ArrowsOfSilver]

In that case, build a bridge!!



'Forbidden,' then, if you perfer.
But still, it forbids it.


Impossibility is improbably, but that creates a chance for it to occur.

[Aslan's Son]

There is no such thing as bad magic, Twilight. Know that.

I thought though that magic had two divisions: white and black, white being the "good" and black being the "malevolent and evil" from what little I know of Wicca and Druidism and such. Of course, correct me if I'm wrong, though. :p

[ArrowsOfSilver]

"Little you know" being the key words.



There is no bad magic, but there is magic used for bad purposes.

[Aslan's Son]

"Little you know" being the key words.



There is no bad magic, but there is magic used for bad purposes.

Well there you go--since it's used for bad purposes, it would be considered "bad" then in that sense, wouldn't it?

[ArrowsOfSilver]

If a dog is made to fight, is the dog bad?

[Solya]

From what I know, the energy of magic itself is neutral. It is the use for which it is applied that makes it either good or bad. :) If it harms others it is usually considered to be "black" and if it helps others it is considered to be "white". Yet, sadly, I've come to realise that this is a rather black/white point of view. ;) There's only ever shades of gray... that's why practitioners of magic always tend to maintain a level of caution. It's not about the words you speak, but about your true intentions behind the use of magic. It can easily go wrong.

The truth is, druidism was an orally maintained religion. Since so little of it was written down, what it was all about was largely lost through the centuries. Most of what people think they know about druidism was actually invented by the Romantics of the 18th and 19th centuries. Of course, they claimed the lore was millenia old, to add a patina of authenticity (and romanticism ;)) but in truth, druidism is as closed a book as Mithraism is.

I agree with you on that. :) The "modern" Druids tend to differentiate between Druidism and Druidry... they, of course, follow the latter. Druidry has maintained certain elements of Druidism, but is yet something new because we know little about the things the Druids did in the past.

As for Druids being forbidden to harm anyone... I have to disagree on that where the Druids of old are concerned, but agree on that when I look at the new Druids. Druids of old actually sometimes used to sacrifice animals or people for the sake of their divination or to please the gods. New Druids tend to want to forget about that vital bit of the lifestyle their own religion is based on.

[PrinceOfTheWest]

There is no bad magic, but there is magic used for bad purposes.Well, here the salient question is where you get your definition of "bad". What would be an example of a spell used for bad purposes (or, if I understand her correctly, what Solya might call "black" (or "really, really gray") magic)? What would be an example of magic used for "good" (or "whiteish") purposes?

[Solya]

Really, really dark gray magic sounds more confusing but is also exactly right. ;)

It's not so easy to decide what use of magic goes into which category. I personally count the rituals/spells which help other people, aren't used for personal gain and do not harm anything in the environment into the categories of light gray/good. The dark gray is the exact opposite of that. Spells/rituals with a bad purpose behind them usually put a level of control on other people, are used for personal gain and bring harm to the natural responses of cause and effect.

Magic used in the negative respect can bring others great hurt and make people feel sick, whereas magic used in the positive respect can raise people up and make them feel better. I have been in touch with both sides (the negative was done to me, the positive is how I responded to the people who used the negative) and that's how I know that sometimes the difference between the two can be small indeed. There's no purely good or purely evil magic, I think, because no person is either completely good or completely evil.

And it all comes down to intention and willpower in the end. The words and movements used in rituals and spells are simply devices through which your true intention and willpower seep out into the world. One might say one thing, and yet mean another. The meaning behind the words is what the energy (magic) you use picks up on and that can cause a spell or ritual to have a completely different result than what you expected. That's why I've always learned to be mindful of the things I feel and think... because I know positive and negative feelings and thoughts always affect my environment and everyone in this environment. That's why Paganism combined with the use of magic is such a difficult path to take. You have to know what you stand for, what you believe and what you really want to do or say.

[inkspot]

What if you had used magic to make Saddam Hussein sick, or dead, so he would stop locking people up and torturing them to death -- would that be a bad use of magic (making someone sick) or a good use (saving his people from torture)?

Just as an aside, from a Christian viewpoint, all magic is bad because it is forbidden in the Bible.

[Parthian King]

All magic is indeed forbidden for the reasons given. But as Lewis points out, God only forbids that which is finally worthless anyway.

While worshipping yesterday it came to me: How futile and absurd are the human attempts which are called magic. For the Christian, their Father is Creator of all and rules over all. Why smack the side of the pinball machine to cheat a few free games out of it when God Almighty wants to give you the whole thing?

[PrinceOfTheWest]

I guess what I'm pressing Solya and ArrowsOfSilver for is where they get their definitions of "good" and "bad". Solya, your explanation sounds very reasonable, but it dodges the main question. YOu say that I personally count the rituals/spells which help other people, aren't used for personal gain and do not harm anything in the environment into the categories of light gray/good.but that's just a personal criterion. What if someone else decided that putting spells on other to control them for personal gain was just fine? Is there some sort of standard to which you could appeal to say, "No, don't do that because the standard says it's wrong"?

I certainly agree that you have to know what you stand for, but where do you, personally, get this standard that you use? Are you the final arbiter of your own definition of what's right or wrong, or is there something greater than yourself which tells you that? And if there is something greater, does that same greater thing apply to others as well? If so, by what authority?

[Solya]

I had originally left this particular issue of personal criteria and standards open for ArrowsofSilver to reply to, but I will answer it now because I don't know how long it will take otherwise. :)

I certainly agree that you have to know what you stand for, but where do you, personally, get this standard that you use? Are you the final arbiter of your own definition of what's right or wrong, or is there something greater than yourself which tells you that? And if there is something greater, does that same greater thing apply to others as well? If so, by what authority?

There is a Law we use in Paganism which most of us do attach some sort of value to. There are some who do not believe in it, of course, but it doesn't change the fact that this particular Law even overrules their disbelief. I cannot define for myself what is right and what is wrong... I'm not God and so I cannot judge this. The Law itself goes as such:

Ever mind the Rule of Three
Three times what thou givest returns to thee.
This lesson well, thou must learn:
Thee only gets what thou dost earn!

Basically, it states that everything you give to others will be given back to you in some shape or form. Some believe that what you give to others will be given back to you thrice as bad/good (hence the mention of three), but I personally see the three in it as an expression of the divinity which applies to the rule.

I personally see magic as a distortion in the general energy flow. You bend the energy flow for your own use and thus change/corrupt the divine motion of all things (I think that's why Christianity advises against the use of it). Naturally, such distortion needs some time to straighten itself out again and when it straightens itself out the user of this energy is "charged" with the remains of the energy he/she has once used. If I bring harm unto others, I will experience harm being brought unto me. If I bring healing and forgiveness unto others, I will experience healing and forgiveness being brought unto me. That's the way it works.

What ultimately defines good and bad with us is much the same as in Christianity. We have a different way of expressing our moral code, but basically I guess you can say that the 10 Commandments are things we abide by as well. God decides what's good and what's bad. We learn what's good and bad through trial and many errors. ;)

[inkspot]

Of course God declared what's good and bad, and so Christians do not have to try to discover it through trial and error -- we just go with what God decided.

[ArrowsOfSilver]

Sorry it took me a while Solya. :p


Yeah... the Threefold Law. Even if we breached out own moral code, it would come back to bite us anyhow. That's how I live my life; I measure out my actions against consequences.