Swearing

[legolas]

Ok, i have this buddy profile for my AIM. The website that u get it from has a chatroom. Well, I look at what they are talking about and then about, the 3rd response someone says the B word. I have NO IDEA what to do, say, or if i should even look in that chatroom again! What should I do!? I need help!

[she-elfwarrior19]

If i were you i'd leave the chatroom,or ask if they didnt have to do that, unless you arent there, but im a buit confused about your problem

[legolas]

OK, my problem is that the people who are on there cuss in almost EVERY sentance. I try to stay out of it, but i have a problem of being nosey. So, I was basiclly spying on them. But later, after i got really annoyed I just told them I hated cussing (I get agravated easily about these things). So, one of the put in the F word 3 times. Well, after that i just Xed out. Does that help, Puddle_Glum?

[inkspot]

Stay out of there, you don't need that.

[legolas]

Ok, thx Inkspot and Puddle_Glum!

[rosymole]

Cussing, or swearing as I'd refer to it isn't everyone's cup of tea- but those who have any social awareness know when to use it (that is if they are disposed to use it anyway) e.g I have be known to swear like a trooper - at home, when out with friends etc, but never when I'm on this site or dealing with people at work- it's about boundaries. I know that if I swore on this site it would offend and insult people and I don't want to do that, so therefore I refrain, but among people I know they don't mind.
And anyway, exessive swearing shows and limited vocabulary and mind!

[waterhogboy]

Thats true - I mean all my friends swear as much as they want - but some of my closer friends know I dont particularly like it so the tone themselves down a bit.

If the people in the chat room arent willing to do that - theyre not the sort of people you wanna be talking to anyway...

[legolas]

Thanks! Well, I go to a Christian school, and I have people who swear! Its pretty awful, although they toned down a bit.

[Kazakhrider]

I agree with Rosymole, I wouldn't ever swear on a site like this. I do drop a few clangers from time to time, though. Funny story: my mum (one of the older generation and a very proper Christian) recently took to saying a swear word that was featured quite prominently on some television ads and I asked her if she knew what it meant, and she said no, and I told her. She didn't believe me, so I told her to look it up and she was ever so embarrassed. But it trickled back into her speech anyway. I think I'm a bad influence on her lol. Swearing is a lot more a part of the Australian culture, although of course there are people who don't swear. But it's pretty accepted, even on tv and radio.

[rosymole]

I'm intruiged as to what the word was Khazakhrider?! It may be one I haven't heard before!

[legolas]

I'm intruiged as to what the word was Khazakhrider?! It may be one I haven't heard before!
lol, that was random!

[she-elfwarrior19]

by the way legolas love your avvie, like mine? lol

[rosymole]

Don't worry Legolas, I wont demand 'the word' be exposed on here, and you're avvie is very cool, and gorgeous!

[Narnian_Blade]

The way I see it this. Personally, I don't swear. Of course since I'm not perfect, I slip from time to time. But swearing doesn't offend me unless it insults me or someone I like. The only reason I don't swear is because I'm a christian, and shouting my own God's name just because I'm mad doesn't seem right after all that he's done for me.

[Kazakhrider]

That's not the kind of swearing I meant, I never take God's name in vain as a matter of principal ;)

Lol Rosymole, I'll PM you :D

[lsipher]

I found that a LOT of people swear in sports...especially in the "beer leagues".
Since I play in some of those, I end up hearing quite a bit of cursing. I don't swear, or think it is very attracive or appropriate for women or children to do so. But I don't criticize or judge men for swearing...as long as it's not done in a "family" environment.

So basically, I just had to realize that I was going to be exposed to quite a bit of it...and do my best not to let any of it slip into my own vocabulary.

But I'm an adult who's never gotten into the habit of swearing...I wouldn't recommend that adolesents be put into that situation.

-Lu

[Kazakhrider]

You realise you'll probably open up a can of worms with that one lol ;)

Why should it make any difference between men and women swearing? :D

[legolas]

Thanks PuddleGlum and Rosymole! I like it, too! lol ;)
And yes I like yours :)

[waterhogboy]

Yeh - I really hate people blaspheming around me, and so they try not to do it. But I dont really mind if its just regular swearing. And I too sometimes slip and swear, but I dont think Ive hardly ever blasphemed.....

[legolas]

I personally, for some reason, get all.... well, it's kind of hard to explain. It just bothers me somehow. There were afew times in my life were I used the Lords name in vain, but thats it. (Although now I regret it.)

[Kazakhrider]

For me it just felt wrong, the odd time or two that God's name did slip out. It felt so disrespectful as well.

You know, there are some fascinating articles out there on the history of swear words lol :D

[Bitter Milton]

As for the whole cussing thing, I'm in agreement with Rosy, especially concerning people who cuss all the time.

But lsipher, what's the difference between men and women cussing?

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

I know this guy that cusses just to make me mad. One time he said, (His words Not mine) I can say whatever the bloody hell I want.

That's just wrong! :mad:

[Euphrates]

The sex/gender of a person who swears does not matter. Not at all.

But swearing is common in the world and it is not a reason, in itself, to flee from a situation. If you don't like swearing, don't do it. You can request that others not swear also, but do not expect them to comply. The only reason you should leave such an environment is if you are very personally uncomfortable with the situation, very young, or easily influenced by others.

I do not swear. Almost all of my friends do. When I moved to California in high school and made new friends they all cussed like sailors (that means "a lot"). I never asked them to not swear, but I never gave in to it either. And now they hardly swear at all, and they attribute it to my constant influence on them.

[she-elfwarrior19]

I dont mind the searing as much as when they use the Lords name in vain. Like "Jesus Christ" in a bad way. Thats really bothers me but im glad that the teachers discipline the people who do that in class.

[lsipher]

You realise you'll probably open up a can of worms with that one lol ;)

Why should it make any difference between men and women swearing? :D

Sorry...I've been on vacation.

Because old customs die hard. It is even still on the books in some areas of the US that a man may not swear in front of women and children.

Not many "ladies" around any more though...which is part of why such things are quickly becoming relics of a past era.


And actually, I really don't have to worry about "worms" too much...white, angelo-saxon females are given free-reign in the press...

...it's the white, middle-class, conservative male that is persecuted, and quickly becoming an endagered species.

Sad, but true. To bad we can't get the "greenies" to pass legislation protecting them as well. ;)

-Lu

Sorry...feeling especially cynical and un-PC today.

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

I'm really mad at the guy. He even makes me want to cuss and I know it's wrong! (Actually, I've been saying crap alot lately) Tsk Tsk to me! :cool:

[Eve'sDaughter]

guys who cuss are certainly not gentlemen. I've had guys appoligize for saying "shoot" in front of me. Awwww! ^_^

[Euphrates]

Not many "ladies" around any more though...
I'm interested to know what your definition of a "lady" would be. And why you think there aren't many around. Is it possible they are just not around the same places you frequent?

...white, angelo-saxon females are given free-reign in the press...First, there's no support for this seemingly racist and sexist claim. Second, no one is given "free-reign" in the press. Third, how do you know which white females are anglo-saxon or not?

...it's the white, middle-class, conservative male that is persecuted, and quickly becoming an endagered species.Some may ask, "How wrong can you be?" The answer: this wrong. Keep your false claims and woeful rants to relevant threads like... well, I guess you'll have to start one.

[waterhogboy]

...it's the white, middle-class, conservative male that is persecuted, and quickly becoming an endagered species.

Here here old lass. Youve hit the nail on its bally old head!!! Top show me gal!!!

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

Ok, I'm NOT a lady! How ladylike do you have to be to be considered a "lady"? Do you have to cross your legs politly? wear very modest clothes? don't say bad words? Don't have, well, you know, before marriage? OK fellows, there are NO LADIES IN THE WORLD! :(

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

Awwww indeed to the gentleman who apologises! The guy that cusses to me, NEVER apologises. Once, he bowed like a British soldior to an elderly lady when I was around, and the lady said, "My, what a gentlman!" I had to hide my furious giggles! That lady is being led the wrong way by him! ;)

[inkspot]

I think there are lots of "ladies" in the world. To my mind, they are women who desire the best for their husbands and children (if they are married), who desire to please God first and family second (if they have families), who understand that bad habits such as cussing and carelessness limit their children's chances for advancement in adulthood (and therefore discourage such habits) and who value themselves enough to desire a non-toxic environment for their own eyes, ears and minds. As such, they don't want to be subjected to foul language, but if they cannot avoid it, they try to ignore it.

God commanded gentlemen to love their wives as Christ loves the church: that is enough to lay down his life for her. If women are that valuable to God, then certainly He wants them, and children, to be protected by men. There is no reason why a gentleman would not want to protect his wife and children from foul language at the very least, and from all dangers at the very most. Men can't always do this, but considering what Christ has charged them to do (lay down their lives), it seems a simple thing to ask them not to cuss.

As for the argument that cussing is everywhere, and perhaps if we hang with the cussers and do not cuss ourselves, it will influence them: that is good for strong people whose habits cannot be influenced by those around them, but in general, we become like those with whom we spend the most time. Jesus ate and drank with sinners, but he spent hours alone with God in prayer, and with His disciples, teaching: He was no doubt demonstrating for us how to keep our motives and hearts pure, through lots of exposure to godliness with limited forays into the sinful world to spread the good news.

[GrayCloak]

This is just a quick not about Euphrates' s post on the last page - I thought it was very rude and nasty at Lu; who was just poking a bit of fun at current day social taboos as well as commenting on a decline of just general courtesy. I know plenty of 'ladies' (and I'm sure Lu would agree that in the circles we run into as Christian woman we're bound to find plenty) it's outside of our own Christian groups, however, that they are disappearing. (Watch a certain commercial with Parris Hilton in it if you don't believe me)

As for the argument that cussing is everywhere, and perhaps if we hang with the cussers and do not cuss ourselves, it will influence them: that is good for strong people whose habits cannot be influenced by those around them, but in general, we become like those with whom we spend the most time.

Well put! I don't mind people swearing - but there was a problem a while back as one of my friends who cussed was doing it around someone else's little brother, and the kid ended up repeating it; I even found myself swearing under my breath without realizing it. Since then I've asked those people I know who cuss to lighten up on it. My friend knew it bothered me, so he stopped immediately - other people have been less enthusiastic, but they still try and comply when around little children.

[Capstick]

First, there's no support for this seemingly racist and sexist claim. Second, no one is given "free-reign" in the press. Third, how do you know which white females are anglo-saxon or not?

Some may ask, "How wrong can you be?" The answer: this wrong. Keep your false claims and woeful rants to relevant threads like... well, I guess you'll have to start one.

Well, Lou, Euphrates seems to have verified your opinion that there's a crucial shortage of gentlemen/ladies in this world...

Euphrates, I think you should apologize to Lou. She was being somewhat facetious, and doesn't deserve this kind of treatment. There use to be a time when someone making those sort of comments to a lady could be arrested (or worse)...


Makes me long for the days when a duel could be fought over a lady's honor...

[Euphrates]

There should be no offense taken to my post if it was in reply to something facetious. You are free to laugh at me because I didn't get it, but not accuse me of not being a gentleman. If it was a joke, I don't find it funny. If I spoke too harshly, even considering the content of lsipher's post, I am sorry. But if someone facetiously posted "Hitler wasn't that bad!" and it was not clear that the individual who posted meant it to be facetious, I would respond in a similar way as I did in this case.

And I'm sure everyone would agree that a simple PM would be preferred to multiple angry and harmful posts.

lsipher, if you were just kidding, I'm happy to remove my post.

[Lunis]

Ok, I'm NOT a lady! How ladylike do you have to be to be considered a "lady"? Do you have to cross your legs politly? wear very modest clothes? don't say bad words? Don't have, well, you know, before marriage? OK fellows, there are NO LADIES IN THE WORLD! :(

Um... I guess I'm a lady than, as are many girls I know, if that is the definition. (Well, I don't sit with my legs crossed [ugh]). (*Thia L.

[Narnian_Blade]

I agree, there are many ladies in this world. Being a lady doesn't mean that she has to be a perfect little angel. However, given the way alot of women, (AND MEN) act in todays society, I am impressed when a women dresses modestly and speaks in an honorable manner.

[inkspot]

I agree, there are many ladies in this world. Being a lady doesn't mean that she has to be a perfect little angel. However, given the way alot of women, (AND MEN) act in todays society, I am impressed when a women dresses modestly and speaks in an honorable manner.
I couldn't agree more, it is very refreshing. Also it is good to see men open doors for their wives and daughters, place themselves on the street side when walking on a sidewalk, giving up their seat to a lady, all that sort of thing. The traits of a gentleman are very nice to see in action.

And I believe there are still many ladies and gentlemen in the world! You young folks shouldn't settle for less.

[lsipher]

Sorry, I've been gone again...


I'm sorry for causing so much trouble.

I had assumed it was clear that I was using a little thing called "sarcasm" in my last post. That's why I mentioned that I was being cynical.

But you know what happens when you assume.

-Lu


ps There are Americans who aren't perpetually facetious??? Wait, did I miss something? Euphrates...aren't on the west coast? Isn't that the first thing you think of when you hear an "off-the-wall" remark? *beginning to doubt her sanity* Am I losing my touch? Dang, I think this insomnia thing is starting to getting to me.

[lsipher]

And, YES, there are still "ladies and gentlemen"...and I have the privilege of knowing several...again...I'm sorry I was just being sarcastic.

-Lu

[Euphrates]

No problems here. I'm also sorry for seeing the sarcasm.

It's really very hard to read sarcasm. Normally someone's tone of voice is what reveals sarcasm. Oh well. That's life, right?

Anyway, swearing is bad. And I never meant to imply that it's a good idea to hang around with those who swear. I just don't think we should abandon them, either.

[Kazakhrider]

Aww, please don't abandon me :( ;)

[tgraveline]

Ok, well i moved this mainly because it just belongs in a new home where we get to talk about things that are not so much about Narnia.

Though one question. In Silver chair, Eustace and Jill call each other an *Ass* Like don't be such an *Ass* So are they just calling each other a donkey or what? I think thats what it is, but its just the same how its used a lot today, but without the hole part, lol.

tg

[rosymole]

'Ass' would be meant in the 'you're being very stubborn/ridiculous/foolish' way in SC.
The similar word that gets joined with 'hole' usually has an 'r' in it, although American don't spell it like wot we do over here, so 'ass' means- Ass like- donkeys etc, and 'ass' could also mean erm, 'bottom'. the meaning do change though, depending on to qwhom you you were talking, and on what terms.

[Smog]

Rosy, doesn't "ass" mean "donkey" while the word "arsssp) refers to the rear end?


And, YES, there are still "ladies and gentlemen"...and I have the privilege of knowing several...again...I'm sorry I was just being sarcastic.

-Lu

Oh, oh! Am I one? Pick me, pick me! Look, look! I'll be good!

~Sorry, had one-too-many cups of coffe this morning~

[rosymole]

Rosy, doesn't "ass" mean "donkey" while the word "arsssp) refers to the rear end?


Yup, didn't that seem clear in my post? All I need are 2 similar sounding words and I get very confused! lol

[Dragon]

It's strange how some words shift meaning into being something considered very bad, like the word "ass." One day, you're talking about a beast of burden and before you know it, the same word is used to refer to someone's buttocks. What next? At this rate, calling someone a computer will be the worst insult. ...if it's not already. In fact, it makes more sense, if the person referred to is slow, can't work right, does what you "ask" but not what you "mean," and will randomly fall asleep.

[waterhogboy]

Its not the same word - Its you naughty Americans that have changed the meaning of the word ass. It still just means donkey over here.

I have actually very little against swearing that isnt blasphemy, as long as it isnt just put in a sentence for no reason.

[rosymole]

I do find excessive comedy swearing to be highly amusing on occassion, and swearing with posh accents makes me laugh too-,WHB I don't if you've seen that TV prog about the Fulford family? it was shown on Channel 4 last for the second time- highly amusing!

[waterhogboy]

No I havent - but if youve seen BB, Craig and Derek make me laugh - cos they are prime examples of the two types you mentioned. What is it with gay people and swearing loads????? :confused:

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

OK yeah, I was just letting out some hot air after running errends and seeing a bunch if weirdo ladies and gents. Yes I know some ladies, but thats all in GS and Choir. ;)

[inkspot]

Yes I know some ladies, but thats all in GS and Choir. ;)
What is GS?
The point I think is that ladies need not be defined by what they wear or what activities they do, but by their attitude toward themselves and others ...

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

GS is a secret. JK Girl Scouts. DUH! Anyway, yes I agree with the fact of not the activities they are in, I wasn't saying that, I was just saying I know some ladies there and I know them from other things as well. Am I making sense? I doubt it so I'd better stop babbling! :D

[jennyjenjen56]

I certainly don't make a habit of swearing and I there are some words I do not ever use. But I'm not perfect and frankly sometimes a swear word is the best descriptive word of someone or of the situation. It's rare with me but I am human and well they are after all words and they have there place just like every other word.

[Bitter Milton]

I think that swearing in excess is bad, but swearing now and then to spice up dialogue is not. However, it is always important to be mindful and respectful of your audience.

[Ithilien]

I personally hate swearing and how stupid it sounds. But of course, I'm not going to abolish them from my vocabulary but save them for an extreme and dire situation when no civilized word can express my feelings.

[jennyjenjen56]

I hardly ever cuss.... its very very rare!

[Dead Rain]

Personally, I greatly dislike it when people swear or say God's name vainly. People do swear, though(obviously). And, even though I don't appreciate it when they do swear, I still love the people. I have friends who swear. And I have friends that don't swear. The friends that I have that do swear and kind enough to not do it around me, thank goodness. Occasially, it slips from them when they are around me. And I don't like it. And normally I go off on them. But hey, I'm not perfect either. I've caught myself swearing under my breath. And I've gotten really REALLY mad at myself for doing it. I try really hard not to swear. Swearing is just not something that I want to be known for.

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

I only cuss, VERY QUIETLY in private, and not really bad words, Just like shoot, or dang, or, very rarely crap, AND THAT IS SO RARE. I think the only time I said it was this morning becuase I woke up at 8:00 and I thought we had piano lessons, and we leave the house at 8:30. We usually do today, but I guess we rescheduled. I could never get dressed, eat, look presentable, and pack my schoolwork in half an hour! :D

[inkspot]

I could never get dressed, eat, look presentable, and pack my schoolwork in half an hour! :D
Aren't you on summer break from school? It is summer in the USA...

[Jene Sai]

Don't you love summer break! Nothing to do but work like a dog and watch all the slack-off teenagers walk around in skimpy clothing acquiring skin cancer...

...Back to the point...
...If I really feel the need to swear, which is not often and usually while driving during rush hour, I usually swear in Italian, it sounds less uncouth.


WARNING-This post may contain sarcasm

[inkspot]

I like your avi, Jene Sai!
I am on dial-up now, too, bleah. If I cussed, I would cuss about that. :(

[GrayCloak]

...If I really feel the need to swear, which is not often and usually while driving during rush hour, I usually swear in Italian, it sounds less uncouth.

Lol, JS, and if Italian doesn't sufice then you can always switch to elven:

Ilie n'vanima ar'lle atara lanneina!

Translanted: You are very ugly, and your mother dresses you funny!

This is why you need to keep geeks occupied; otherwise we start making up curses in made-up languages!

[Smog]

WARNING-This post may contain sarcasm

W()()T, W()()T! lol

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

No, I am not on summer break because I homschool and we started late this year. Uggggg, I'll probobly only get one month off from school. Ah yes, Homeschooling. I know it well. TOO WELL. Been doing it since I was a tot. This is the only year I've had to go into the summer though. Last fall we had all our school books packed cus we were moving into a new house. Didn't start till Late October! :eek:

[waterhogboy]

Please do not discuss Summer Break infront of me, seen as stupid old England doesnt break up for another 4 weeks.......... :(

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

You're lucky! I still have 5! :mad:

[inkspot]

Sorry, Tarkheena and WHB!
The public school kids in the USA have been out for a month! Isn't it summer in England yet, WHB? Sounds like it is, the way Rosy's been complaining about the weather being so hot ...
I always thought home-school would be swell, Tarkheena, with no set schedule and stuff. At least you had a long summer break last year.

[Sojourner]

Excuse me as I gloat....I am all done with school, I am all done with school ;)

I love summer I love summer.......Love all of you guys who still have sometime left. Don't worry it all seems better when you are done.:D

[waterhogboy]

Well yeh - thats England for you. They think its really funny to keep you in school while the weathers hot and sunny - then when it goes bad - ITS SUMMER HOLIDAYS!!....... yay....... :(

[Sojourner]

I have a question...is Bloody really a cuss word in England

[Gymfan15]

I've never been to England but I *think* it is...because I've seen movies where they use that word every other sentence, lol. And not in a nice way.

But then again I dunno...

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

YES IT IS! It is equvalent to the word "f" I didn't say that word. Notice it was in Quotation marks. I know a person so obsesed with Brits, he says Blood, just for fun. Ugggggg.

[waterhogboy]

Whoa!!! Bloody is nowhere near the f word you so kindly mentioned!

Its sort of on the same level as crap - the kind of word that some people would find offensive, but is generally considered ok.

[Sojourner]

Oooh well then...thank you for that discussion right there... :)

[rosymole]

I think Tarkheena it would be best if starred out a certain word in your last post-it's not really family friendly, and some people might get a bit offended by it! :-)

[Thanatos]

exessive swearing shows and limited vocabulary and mind!
Very true.
I dont really care for swearing all that much.....most people (my friends) know not to swear that often...

[Sojourner]

Hmmm many people know not to do it yet they choose to.

[rosymole]

Hmmm many people know not to do it yet they choose to.

I'm one of those people. But then I am old and grizzled, even tho that's no excuse! Swearing is about time, place and common sense.

[Sojourner]

Either that or you just can't stop yourself....like me and Fried Chicken ;)

[rosymole]

I think I have no will power at all, i could eff-and-blind whilst eating fried chicken until the cows come home! love it!!

[Jene Sai]

Could it be possible that the practice of swearing, as long as it does not violate the Moral Law, is accountable only to cultural acceptability or "good taste"...
...Every culture has it's own unique flavor and behavioral practices and what is taboo in one society is perfectly acceptable in another.

-JS

[GrayCloak]

Completely agree with you JS - and as a citizen of one of those cultures, I am subject to find certain words and phrases inappropriate for no other reason then they are taboo.

I think we need to be aware of who's around us, and take into consideration if the people will take offence at something you say. Just because swear words aren't actually 'sinful' doesn't mean we should go around saying them when it could offend our brothers.

[Gymfan15]

I don't swear at all, not even 'small' ones like 'OMG' or 'gee' or anything...just because if you go back far enough, most of these words were derived from 'God', 'Jesus', and other religous names and words for the purpose of slandering them. They arn't really meant that way today but that was their original intent and I intend to stay away from it all.

[Tarkheena_Finduilas22]

Fried Chicken in missouri? How dare they! It's not even in the south! grrrrr. I'm gonna sue bojangles and KFC.

[rosymole]

...Every culture has it's own unique flavor and behavioral practices and what is taboo in one society is perfectly acceptable in another.

-JS

Good point. I've always believed that Australians are far 'rougher' in their speach than other native English speakers..any Aussies can correct me if they wish!

[Sojourner]

Who said anything about Missouri?

[Dernhelm]

I don't swear at all, not even 'small' ones like 'OMG' or 'gee' or anything...just because if you go back far enough, most of these words were derived from 'God', 'Jesus', and other religous names and words for the purpose of slandering them. They arn't really meant that way today but that was their original intent and I intend to stay away from it all.
Yes!!!!!! Same with me! Except, I can't seem to keep "phooy" from slipping out every now and then:(.
Question: Do you go to sunday school? This may seem completly off topic...and it probably is...will you excuse me? but I want to know how close you come to being just like our family.:eek:

[FallOfFingolfin]

Swearing is not a big deal at all.
I say "ass", "****", "Hell", etc with the occasional b and f words.

[glamel]

well that was you, because maybe you grew up with an environment and culture that is used in saying those words,
but if you're not used in hearing those words, its like super really bad,
I am used in hearing those words, and reading them, im open to it, but i don't do it
its just like saying badwords, are not my forte! :D

[inkspot]

Glamel is right, if you grow up hearing coarse language, then of course you have no idea that it is coarse. But if you grow up with an understanding that those things are crude, and in fact that they aren't fit for ladies and chlidren to hear, then it is very shocking to hear ladies and children saying them! :p

[Saruman]

Not just ladies and children, my dear inkspot! There are gentlemen in this world, as well, I may add. And it is certainly atrocious to hear any foul or crude word uttered from the black gutteral abyss of someone who (with no doubt a clear understanding of what sorts of things they say and suggest) is a no-good doer of heinous activities on late Saturday nights! (Not all fall into this category, but clearly you understand what I think of cursing and swearing. :))

[inkspot]

True, gentlemen, too, in my opinion, don't curse. But keep in mind that lots of little people grow up in homes where there is no discretion in such matters and don't even realize that it's inappropriate ...

[waterhogboy]

Hmmmm... no I agree that curseing is wrong... but I'm a bit of a hypocrite really!

My whole family is particularly bad at keeping our words clean, add onto that attending a very 'linguistically colourful' comprehensive school, I find it quite difficult.

However, I never blaspheme - ever!

[unleavened]

I work very hard not to use bad language, but sometimes it's completely apropriate. Sometimes it describes what you mean perfectly. Although even in such cases I avoid it so as not to offend anyone. Alot of words are just crude, and in VERY SPECIAL cases, I understand their use. Blasphamy on the other hand I think is unecessary in all cases.

[Pendelton_the_cook]

mmmmmm, i dunno. i go to a good private school and i mean we swear alot, not only the guys but also the girls, but i think theres a line. sometimes swearing is good to emphasize things but i mean if ur just walking round swearing thats not cool. i guess in society there is alot of swearing, in films songs tv books so its widley used, i just think its not the matter of if its used, just that its used properly and with care.

[marrionette]

basically cussing is bad
thats it,
theres no point of argument here.
its bad. period.
"do not do unto others what you do not want others do unto you."

[inkspot]

i just think its not the matter of if its used, just that its used properly and with care.
I don't think there is any "proper" use for swearing. When a person who should know better resorts to such language in publlic, it is simply an admission that he has no inner resources (to provide better words for what he feels) and no respect for those around him (to assault their ears with garbage). Of course, someone who doesn't know any better and has been raised by people who didn't know any better, that is entirely a different matter, and he cn hardly be held accountable.

[Parthian King]

If I may quote Tolkien, he comments in his notes on translation at the end of The Return of the King:

But Orcs and Trolls spoke as they would, without love of words or things; and their language was actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering, though models are easy to find. Much of the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong.

[inkspot]

Very good, PK! That's exactly it! :)

[Parthian King]

It's difficult to improve on perfection, so why not quote someone who got it so, so right? Speaking of perfection, I might add this:

Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. --Ephesians 5:4

[waterhogboy]

basically cussing is bad
thats it,
theres no point of argument here.
its bad. period.
"do not do unto others what you do not want others do unto you."

True, but my mates call me pretty nasty names all the time as a joke, and I dont mind cos theyre only joking.

[inkspot]

True, but my mates call me pretty nasty names all the time as a joke, and I dont mind cos theyre only joking.
I suppose among boys a fair amount of that goes on, but imagine if they were calling your sister those same names (or equivalent ones that would apply to a female). Then it would be offensive, wouldn't it? But why? Because you love and respect your sister ... but shouldn't you respect your mates, too, enough not to use that kind of language on them/around them? And suppose other youngters hear you? It's just a poor use of your brains and it shows a lack of respect for yourself and others. In my opinion. As I say, if you come from a background where that is accepted and have never been taught that it's perverse, then you can't be held accountable for it. But once you realize that what you say with your voice has a power for good or ill, you owe it to yourself and those around you to be careful what you say ... I think. :o

[unleavened]

What I mean by swearing is language society has labeled as "crude." Most of these words are refering to things we don't need to be talking about or thinking about. Their not edifying. Especially sexual slang terms. However, some words are labled "crude", and yet have very valid meaning or expressive power. I personally try to avoid using even these, but a select few have their place in conversation. Plus it depends on the culture around you. Some places these words are considered worse than in others. However, I don't like how guys to around calling eachother names like they do. I think Satens got them just where he wants them and it's contradictory to scipture. Just b/c it's widely excepted doen't make it ok.

[Basilides]

Wow, Parthian King, I loved the Tolkien and Pauline references. How right you are.

In my own conversation, God lets me get away with nothing...I'm convicted at the slightest hint of a curse word or faux curse word.

But in the conversations around me, I take a cue from Lewis, who said in one of his books (maybe Miracles) that you could show the existence of the supernatural by the fact that men tell course jokes. He means this: If we are simply organisms, why should we find bodily functions so funny? Why do we laugh at all at dirty jokes? Humor occurs when we sense incongruity, something that is but shouldn't be.

People find dirty humor funny because... I mean, here we are, immortal spirits destined for eternity, created in the very image of God, and we pass smelly gas (and so on). It is simply ridiculous.

But if there were no Supernatural, if people did not have an innate sense that all these bodily functions are so incongrous to us as spiritual beings, thre would be no bad jokes...and no curse words to make explitives out of the same bodily functions and so on.

So, if someone curses around me on purpose, knowing that I am a Christian, I happily point out that they are proving the existence of God and explain why. Funny, they never curse around me again.

:)

[Aslan the Wise one]

I do not mind it that moch......

[Parthian King]

Right on, Basilides, that is right on the money. And, of course, it goes not only for cursing but other forms of self-destruction aka sin. Sin is, in fact, one of the more powerful proofs for the existence of spiritual sinlessness that there is, just as, paradoxically, genuine goodness and order are more difficult for the hostile skeptic to explain away than it is for a theist to explain the presence of evil in a universe created by a all wise and benevolent God.

[Pendelton_the_cook]

I do not mind it that moch......

yeah i must admit im with aslan on this one, i really dont mind swearing but if i see a kid running around screaming cuss words, kinda makes me think less of them its their choice though so i really dont see that others can tell them not too :)

[inkspot]

yeah i must admit im with aslan on this one, i really dont mind swearing but if i see a kid running around screaming cuss words, kinda makes me think less of them its their choice though so i really dont see that others can tell them not too :)
If a kid is running around swearing, there is certainly someone who can tell him not to: his parents. The problem with swearing for Christians is that the Bible forbids us to let any unwholesome talk come out of our mouths. The problem with swearing for non-Christians is, to my mind, that it shows a lack of respect for yourself and those around you: if you have to assault the ears of those nearby with nasty language, how can you possibly have any respect for them? If you kiss your mother with the same mouth that you use to vomit verbal garbage, how can you have any respect for her? If you and your friends "don't mind" having filthy language seeping through your ears and getting lodged in your brain for time and eternity, how can you have respect for yourself? The things you listen to do have an impact on you, and the more you hear them, the greater the impact. Think about yourself in 20 years with a young lifetime of nastiness lodged in your brain, your ears and on your tongue ... then you are going to pick up and hold close your precious newborn baby with that kind of filth all over you? How can you do that? It makes my skin crawl. Not because it's a sin, but because it's nasty. But that's just me ... :o

[LadyEm]

Well, those scriptures are subject to interpretation, and cultural and social interpretations.
In order to properly interpret it, you need to look in the context of where it was written, what it is refering to, who it was written to and what the issue was at the time.
Then we need to recognize a few things about the way we view these things according to our culture and time.
In our Western Christian culture we have many things that are "cultural sins" not "Biblical sins."
Cultural sins are those things that your society says are sinful, not what the Bible says is sinful, or that nothing about the topic is mentioned.
A few of these things in our North American society are: no drinking, no smoking no swearing...these types of things.
The Bible does speak that we ought to be careful what comes out of our mouths. However, back when the Bible was written I don't think there was the same society concept of "bad words" nor was there the vast vocabulary that some person has deemed bad.
It is true we ought to keep our speech pure, however we should not be worried that if we do have a habit of swearing, it isn't sinful.
It might not be appropriate but it is not sinful.
The Bible also says we should also temper everything with balance...we shouldn't over eat over drink, and this should carry out into all aspects of our lives.
The Bible does not abjectly say "Thou Shalt Not Swear" and only touches on watching what we speak...what comes to mind is things dirty and smutty sort of conversations, things that could lead us into sin.
Swear words are only deemed bad words by people in our society who have come before us, for whatever reason. They may not be necessary and are distasteful, and I am not advocating swearing like a trucker.
However, though I do not usually swear personally, I don't mind it unless it delves into the areas of using Jesus, Christ or God improperly, for example, or hugely depraved conversation.
We can sensitize ourselves according to what is around us. If we don't watch TV for awhile, we find it absolutely fascinating when we turn it on again.
It's human behavior.
If you don't like swearing and it bothers you I am not saying that that is wrong. We all have different levels of sensitivity, and that is fine. However, some people, including Christians swear all the time and they are still amazing Christians and God still uses them amazingly.
However I would say that our focus should be on being someone of soft words rather than harsh words.
If we start judging that as a sin, or a person's level of integrity, that delves towards extreme religiosity.
That granted, it is good of course to teach our children that it isn't good to swear.
I'd say in regards to that chatroom, it's good to stay away from it if it bothers you. I'd also say that saying things like "please don't swear I don't like it" to the room, probably really provoked them.
It's like in some Christian chatrooms, where someone comes in saying they are SATAN or something and starts swearing. He gets pounced on, and though I admit that is an extreme example and that you're heart is and was entirely different than that person's intentions, it's going to rile people up.
:)

[waterhogboy]

I dont like it when people say 'scripture is open to interpretation', it makes me wonder what they're gonna go onto say - lol!!

But yeh. I think the main thing about keeping your mouth and words clean is so as not to offend people. I think wit me and my mates, we're not gonna offend one another by calling em names. And with my sisters - I dont use as strong names, but I call em marginally dirty words from time to time. But theyre used as affectionate (lol) and they take em that way.

I think its the meaning BEHIND the words, rather than the word themselves. A bit like talking about sex in biology isn't wrong at all, because its in a sensible and educational manner....

[inkspot]

Obviously the Scriptures say, "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen" (Ephesians 4:29). If there is an instance of filthy language that is "wholesome" then I will allow that using filthy language isn't sinful. There's no real interpretation needed here.

But as I mentioned, it's not even the sin part of it that is disconcerting to me (although of course you can't laugh that off), it's the nastiness of it, the lack of respect for yourself or others that you show when you cuss, and the demonstration of your own lack of inner resources that you have to resort to expletives to express yourself.

[Parthian King]

I'm with WHB and Inkspot here. "Open to interpretation" doesn't mean "it can mean whatever I'd like it to." If you mean that profanity changes according to culture and generation, then to a point, yes, that's right. Apparently several centuries back "swiver" was the dirtiest thing you could say in English. Who uses it now? But we know what dirty talk is for sure, even among young secularists who use it casually precisely because it is profanity, and the opening post of this thread was a complaint along that line. If it isn't something you would use in conversational prayer under any circumstances, better not to say it.

[glamel]

"Watch the way you talk. Let nothing foul or dirty come out of your mouth"
(Ephesians 4:29, The Message).

"If you think you are being religious, but can't control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and everything you do is useless"
(James 1:26, CEV).

Cussing is a dirty, unclean and unwholesome words with no good purpose at all. it cheapens the meaning of what we really wanted to say. and it hurts other people too. plus the fact that it doesnt help us with our relationship to God.

[LadyEm]

Um...ok I think my meaning was lost in my choice of words at the beginning.
I said "subject to interpretation" not "open to interpretation."

I was not suggesting that it is open for any sort of assumption or interpretation that people have.
I was merely saying that in the interpretation of scripture, when dealing with verses that aren't completely specific, you need to look at other factors, and you should *always* interpret within the context of when the scripture was written, the whole book, who the book was written by, who it was written to, the purpose of the writing, what the issue was that was being addressed, and the culture that was being addressed.
That is all.

[Parthian King]

Agreed. Didn't mean to seem like I was jumping on you.

[unleavened]

Ok, I'll do some clarifying of my own. I don't condone swearing at all, but when people use the words in instances where they are expressing strong feelings, I don't rebuke them. I do wince. I don't like it, but I'm not as offended by it. Maybe I'm just messed up. I am strongly opposed to casual uses of crude words or any unpresidented use of the Lord's name. The latter especially b/c, like someone said, It cheapens it. His name holds extaordinary power. When we over use it, it becomes ordinary.

[Eve'sDaughter]

I fully agree with that.
Overall foul language gives me an impression of people that I'm sure they don't want me to have. But there you are. Most don't care. I cannot STAND it when I hear someone curse or swear. Even with words from other countries that don't sound as bad here in the US. (ex: "Bloody") Because I know what it is akin to in that other country. it irks me so much.

Then there's the whole name calling thing..........*sigh*

[Starkist]

Nobody will care, but I'll throw in my two cents.

I believe that cursing and swearing is more cultural than moral. It depends on the company you're in. In the end, it is just words. I personally do not swear, because it is not a part of my personality. Yet I do not really condemn those who do. This is one place where relativity reigns. For example, I occasionally say some words that I do not consider profanity, but other more conservative folk may. I remember a Dilbert cartoon where an old lady gets offended when a guy says "bullfeathers". The idea is that the offense of profanity is based on those who hear the words. In some circles, cursing like a sailor is just part of the dialogue, in fact some people don't take you seriously if you don't curse every other word. (Anyone seen Star Trek 4?)

I guess my view is this: If someone takes God's name in vain, swearing by God without actually making a true vow, then it is wrong. If someone uses the 's' word, then it's not really a problem. It's just another word that means excrement. I mean, how is saying "Oh s***!" any different from saying "Oh poopy!" ? Same difference. (Actually, what offends me most about people using profanity is that they do not use it correctly. Curse words, especially the 's' word, but the others too, start getting thrown into every sentence. I saw this one website listing the difference usages of the 's' word and there were literally hundreds. I dislike the butchering of the English language moreso than profanity itself.)

I mean, the so-called 'a' word is mainly used in America to refer to one's posterier. However, the word really means a donkey. The word for posterier is actually a similarly spelled word from England. We Americans are just lazy and make words mean whatever we want.

I do not believe most profanity is necessary. A truly linguistic person can speak their mind without resorting to words that may possibly offend the people around them. (Not as if many people care for the people around them.) However, they are just words. If you don't like it, don't be around people who talk that way. If people do, just ignore it.

[waterhogboy]

Nobody will care, but I'll throw in my two cents.

I believe that cursing and swearing is more cultural than moral. It depends on the company you're in. In the end, it is just words. I personally do not swear, because it is not a part of my personality. Yet I do not really condemn those who do. This is one place where relativity reigns. For example, I occasionally say some words that I do not consider profanity, but other more conservative folk may. I remember a Dilbert cartoon where an old lady gets offended when a guy says "bullfeathers". The idea is that the offense of profanity is based on those who hear the words. In some circles, cursing like a sailor is just part of the dialogue, in fact some people don't take you seriously if you don't curse every other word. (Anyone seen Star Trek 4?)

I guess my view is this: If someone takes God's name in vain, swearing by God without actually making a true vow, then it is wrong. If someone uses the 's' word, then it's not really a problem. It's just another word that means excrement. I mean, how is saying "Oh s***!" any different from saying "Oh poopy!" ? Same difference. (Actually, what offends me most about people using profanity is that they do not use it correctly. Curse words, especially the 's' word, but the others too, start getting thrown into every sentence. I saw this one website listing the difference usages of the 's' word and there were literally hundreds. I dislike the butchering of the English language moreso than profanity itself.)

I mean, the so-called 'a' word is mainly used in America to refer to one's posterier. However, the word really means a donkey. The word for posterier is actually a similarly spelled word from England. We Americans are just lazy and make words mean whatever we want.

I do not believe most profanity is necessary. A truly linguistic person can speak their mind without resorting to words that may possibly offend the people around them. (Not as if many people care for the people around them.) However, they are just words. If you don't like it, don't be around people who talk that way. If people do, just ignore it.

I very much agree with Starkist. He is completely right.

[LadyEm]

Yes, I agree too.

[Saruman]

Nobody will care, but I'll throw in my two cents.

I believe that cursing and swearing is more cultural than moral. It depends on the company you're in. In the end, it is just words. I personally do not swear, because it is not a part of my personality. Yet I do not really condemn those who do. This is one place where relativity reigns. For example, I occasionally say some words that I do not consider profanity, but other more conservative folk may.

I guess my view is this: If someone takes God's name in vain, swearing by God without actually making a true vow, then it is wrong. If someone uses the 's' word, then it's not really a problem. It's just another word that means excrement. I mean, how is saying "Oh s***!" any different from saying "Oh poopy!"

I mean, the so-called 'a' word is mainly used in America to refer to one's posterier. However, the word really means a donkey. The word for posterier is actually a similarly spelled word from England. We Americans are just lazy and make words mean whatever we want.

I do not believe most profanity is necessary.

You are confusing me! I think you are wrong and right. Instead of saying "most," I should think "all" profanity is unnecessary; no, it's not okay to think that the s-word or the a-word, or any other of the like, is just another "word" that one ought to use freely.

You are right in pointing out that "oh poopy" is just as dirty and vulgar as the use of the s-word. As far as cursing being more cultural than moral, I think it goes hand-in-hand with both. "Morality" dictates that one have a sense of true propriety. The use of foul language of any sort, and even of innuendos, is not only inappropriate, but, as someone else mentioned above, it gives one an impression of someone that is not pleasant and perhaps that person would not want to give to others. I don't think highly of anyone who chooses to use dirty language.

The use of vile language by anyone, whether poor or rich, is not only distasteful, but it makes that person a part of the dregs of society, a low and base form of life. I am compelled to believe there are other, more appropriate ways for one to express their thoughts and views.

So there we are! :)

[unleavened]

Scripture does tell us not to use the Lord's name in vain, and also to do what we can to live at peace with other Chistians. If it's going to offend some one, I choose not to use the word. We're supposed to edify eachother. However, like I said, I don't (generally) rebuke people that do who aren't Christians b/c that's not the issue. What good is teaching morals w/o the foundation of salvation? My conviction is not to say things that offend my brother in Christ or ruin my tesimony and I believe swearing will do that.

[Starkist]

You are right in pointing out that "oh poopy" is just as dirty and vulgar as the use of the s-word. As far as cursing being more cultural than moral, I think it goes hand-in-hand with both. "Morality" dictates that one have a sense of true propriety. The use of foul language of any sort, and even of innuendos, is not only inappropriate, but, as someone else mentioned above, it gives one an impression of someone that is not pleasant and perhaps that person would not want to give to others. I don't think highly of anyone who chooses to use dirty language.

The thing is, someone with a good command of the English language can tear someone down for more hurtfully without using profanity than another who just throws out an 'f you' or something. If I curse you out, I'm sure you'll be offended. However, if I viciously tear into your friends, your family, your childhood, your parentage, the things you hold dear, and explain in no uncertain terms that you are worse than the dirt beneath my feet, then you will probably be deeply hurt. Which is worse?

Why I said that it is more cultural than moral is because if I went into a bar and started cursing, nobody would be offended, nobody would be made uncomfortable (save me, perhaps, since it just would not sound right for me to use those words.) As I said, it all depends on the listener. They are just words, and they can be used however one chooses. It is the listener - society as a whole - that decides what is profane, and what is not.

It is all about context as well. I remember a friend of mine who showed dogs. In the world of showing dogs, the so-called 'b' word is not profane, it is a necessary term for describing a female dog of a certain status. However, outside of this context, it becomes a profane word used to put down another person.

When I was a child I used to think that uttering any of the so-called cuss words would call destruction down upon me. Now I know that they are just words. They are perhaps not the most polite words to use, but there are far worse things one can say with one's mouth, far worse ways to tear someone down.

One note on the Lord's name. That is the one area I'm a stickler, because it is expressly written in the Bible that taking the Lord's name in vain is wrong. Every time a person says 'oh my G-d' they are really swearing by the name of the Lord. When the president, or a jurist, says 'So help me G-d' they are making a legitimate promise with the Lord God as a witness. Most people just say it as a matter of course. Additionally, when people say the word '****' they probably do not know that these are the words of a curse, asking God to destroy the subject of the curse. 'Hell and damnation' are not subjects to be taken lightly.

I always wonder why nonbelievers swear by the name of God. They should find their own god.... (Ideally they should find God, of course.)

[PrinceOfTheWest]

I've been following this thread, and haven't said anything yet, but would like to chip in with some of my own experience. When I left home to join the service, I was an earnest young man seeking to serve Christ and follow Him with my whole life. However, the service is a coarse and profane environment, and since I was disoriented and impressionable, I began to pick up the vile language that bombarded me all my waking hours. I never used the Lord's Holy Name in vain, but began to adopt all manner of profanities as part of my regular vocabulary.

It wasn't long before the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart with a simple question: "Is this language honoring Me?" That brought me up short, and with His help I managed to expunge all that vileness from my speech (which wasn't hard, since it had not been a habit for long.) But the lesson didn't stop there - the Lord wanted me not only to avoid saying crude things, but to make my speech a tool for good and blessing in the lives of those I touched. I learned the value of gentle speech, of avoiding abusive humor and jokes at the expense of others. I learned the virtue of kind and encouraging words, and of not grousing or complaining but of speaking in ways that honored everyone around me. I didn't do it perfectly - in fact, most of my learning was from my failures - and it certainly wasn't a matter of speaking "Jesusese" (i.e. sprinkling my speech with religious catchphrases - you can imagine how well that would have gone over on a military vessel!) It was learning how to use my tongue to honor God.

The most amazing thing was that over time, my speech became my greatest witness in that environment. Not only did everyone know that I didn't curse or swear myself, but it got to the point where people would avoid swearing in my presence - and even at times apologized to me if they did! This was not because I explicitly disapproved (I was not such a fool as to think anything odd about sailors swearing!), but rather because the speech the Lord taught me was itself a witness to them.

I think this is the point to keep in mind, at least for those of us who follow Christ. The question is not, "how much profanity can we fold into our speech before we're 'really' sinning?", but rather, "How can every word I speak, even if I'm calling for a pizza, honor Christ?" If you read the Scriptures, particularly St. James, you'll see the clear call is for our speech to be used for great good. Perhaps an even better question to ask is, "If I'm seeing profane patterns in my speech, what is influencing my words?"

[Saruman]

I agree with you, Starkist, concerning the use of the Lord's Name (no matter which word you choose, it is too awful to use His Name in vain and it is painful to hear it - from an unbeliever, it is natural; but to hear it from brethren even at church is too much for me).

All in all, concerning what I wrote earlier, I wish to clarify that it is not my intent to condemn anyone, for how much more guilty am I, having been born a sinner? Yet I will not be persuaded to believe that the use of certain words to express anger or frustration, or even just to use them for no particular reason whatsoever (which is often the case), is in any way, shape or form appropriate or necessary.

[inkspot]

Let me agree with Curumo that I am not condemning anyone, either. And let me say to Starkist and others who believe "If you don't like that language, don't listen to it" that I try not to. Let me agree with PoTW that the point of our speech, if we are Christians, should be in line with biblical admonitions to glorify God and encourage others, and cursing can do neither.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:35-37, "The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

Brothers and sisters, it is clear that every word we speak will have to be defended before God -- do you really want a bunch of those to be swear words?

But for Christians or non-Christians: if you are aware of what the curse words mean, and if you have been taught that such words are coarse, crude or rude, and you choose to keep using them, you are showing your disregard for yourself and the people around you by spewing garbage out of your mouth. It doesn't matter what society or the culture says: you have chosen to trash-up the ears of those around you with filth. You may not mean to do so, you may otherwise be a very nice and good person, but in this area, you are showing that you have no respect for those around you. The fact that there are millions of such people in the world doesn't mean that it's okay. It just means you're not even that original in your choice to assault your listeners with filth.

See, if you wouldn't say it to your mother and father, or your little brother or sister, don't say it to anyone else, because everyone is someone's mother or father or little brother or sister ... :o

[Starkist]

My point that seems to be missed is that so-called cuss words are just words. Offense depends on who is listening, and how they are used. Careless words, profane speech, these things can be said without using profanity. I can say "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries" without cussing. Is saying "...you're stupid..." any worse than saying "...you're f-ing stupid..." ?

I'm not promoting profanity. As I said, I don't use it. However, I think it earns an exorbant amount of negative attention. We should watch all our words, instead of just the so-called bad words. I am more concerned with the meaning of speech than the words used.

[pacifiquesea]

So then where do you draw the line? I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this is a re-iteration. Does this mean that Christians shouldn't say "crap," do you think? Or even "oh man" etc.

[Starkist]

Everyone draws the line differently, that is the problem. Would you be offended if you were around a new parent, who said "I have to change the baby's diaper, it smells like s***." ? What if he said ""I have to change the baby's diaper, it smells like crap." ? Would "I have to change the baby's diaper, it smells like poop." be more acceptable? Perhaps "I have to change the baby's diaper, it smells like excrement." would be the better word to choose.

They all mean the same thing. For whatever reason some of the words are considered 'bad' and some are not.

[Saruman]

Try this one: I have to change the baby's diaper; it smells terrible - or, I have to change the baby's diaper; it smells awful.

Those are excellent ways of expressing that the baby's diaper does not smell very pleasant at all, without the use of vulgar words.

We have not missed your point. You believe that profane words are just ordinary "words." Then what does the Bible talk about when it tells us (as PrinceoftheWest and inkspot, for example, have mentioned) to refrain from such crudeness? It is just not appropriate for anyone to do. If we are able (and if we can easily do so), then let us hold ourselves to higher standards. Is it really all that difficult? Must we blend in with the rest of the world?

[Starkist]

You say the bible demands we refrain from profane speech. I am saying, who decides what speech is profane? One man's normal talk is another man's garbage. How do you decide?

[Saruman]

Are we to be void of understanding, that we do not plainly recognize that which is vile? Let's say one is having a conversation with someone about a very sensitive topic, i.e. sex. In perhaps describing certain aspects of said sensitive topic, the f-word comes up suddenly, and it is used in place of a more appropriate way of describing the topic. To use a word that is often used mindlessly by others in their daily conversations, like "--- that!" or "What the ---?", not only demonstrates that the word itself is vile and used baselessly, it is also socially accepted as being a word that we wouldn't want our children to hear from our mouths. But even aside from the "social standards," is it truly edifying to refer to something that frustrates us as being a "piece of ---"? How about, "This car isn't working very well anymore. I think it's time to replace it." Did I have to go and say, "Oh you piece of ---!!!!!"? Absolutely not. I think that many of those who regularly use such foul language in such a way should attend anger-management courses, to help them to learn to calm down and be more civil.

We also decide upon a moral and cultural basis. Sadly, it is now acceptable to use these words for no particular reason in conversation, whether angered or not. As far as the Bible is concerned, is it edifying to use the f-word in conversation? Will it help build up someone? "Oh, hi Tom! Yeah, I went to church...had an f--in' good time, too. Hoo yea, h--l, it was great, yo!" How ridiculous and - yes, well - stupid!

So in this way we have a standard: not through society, not through "morality," but in God's own Word. What is edifying? Ask yourself this question.

[Gondor Knight of Narnia]

I shall say something i have heard....Cuss words ARE curses!(that's why it's called cursing...) The power of life and death are in the tongue. Something to think about.

[Johan 72109]

One thing I need to point out is that Paul used swearwords in his letters. Hehe, just playing devil's advocate here... When he says, referring to his past works 'I consider them rubbish ' - this is in fact a mistranslation. The original Greek uses a word that accurately translated would best read sh**...

I don't think that swearwords are really necessary, essentially. I myself use them often - sometimes too much, and then I have to remind myself that in fact all I'm doing is sounding stupid... :o But I don't think that they are really wrong either. They can add humour to books - not referring to anything innapropriate, but because of wordplay; a character who normally speaks in a very regal tone and with a medieval vocabulary suddenly letting out a swearword, for example, can be hilarious if done properly.
I personally agree that swearwords are part of the cultural landscape - for example, the words 'cul de sac' are in fact swearing in French, yet they are simply used to describe part of a road network, with no offence meant or taken by saying them. But on the other hand, we must make a good witness - if someone would think badly of you for swearing, don't.

[inkspot]

For Christians, the issue is not really what offends us, but what offends God and what God has asked us to do. His Word calls us to speak only what is wholesome and encouraging to others. Swear words never can be wholesome.

I agree with Curumo that it is easy for us to know which words are swear words and which are acceptable -- in the examples he gave, he showed that there is always a way to express your feeling without using a crude word. If you cannot do so, and you are a believer, you need to surrender your thoughts and words to Christ, and allow Him to speak through you.

If you aren't a believer, I still wish you wouldn't cuss. It fouls up the aural atmosphere.

[Starkist]

Joe Carter speaks of this very topic today at his weblog "Evangelical Outpost" - http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/001712.html

Eric Rigney gives what he called "Bad Reasons Not To Cuss" and "Good Reasons Not To Cuss" in this article - http://www.internetmonk.com/articles/C/cuss2.html - and they address a lot of what has been brought up here.

Anyway, both Inkspot and Curumo seem to presume certain words are unacceptable. My question would be, what is the basis for such a presumption?

[inkspot]

For believers, this is easy. The Scriptures say, "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen" (Ephesians 4:29).

So, any word that cannot be classified as wholesome for building others up would be a word you shouldn't say. Any number of off-color words would fall in this category. Okay, somewhat I am leaving this up to the speaker to judge for himself, but any believer who understands the meaning of the word wholesome would certainly know whether or not the word he had chosen was wholesome?

As for non-believers, can common courtesy not play a role?

[Starkist]

The problem is that you are using extra-biblical sources, in this case, personal judgement, to qualify a biblical verse. My entire point is that certain words are taken differently by different people, so what is "unwholesome" may be different to different people. It seems to me that you are asking everyone, believers and nonbelievers alike, to subscribe to your standards.

[Saruman]

inkspot, it would be folly to continue to write to Starkist on the issue. It would appear that he has convinced himself that, if it appears to be okay and right for someone, then let them do it. It falls in that very large and broad category of "do what feels good and/or right." He has not assayed to pay attention to what I've written earlier on the subject, so it goes without saying; else he might consider where we are coming from on the matter. He negates what the Scriptures [plainly] speak concerning "corrupt communication."

Let me wrap it up in one simple statement: it is not only a question concerning the Christian and how they ought to speak, but it is for any decent person who wishes to carry on cordial conversation. The uses of vile and crude words (whether socially acceptable or no), innuendos, and any and or all other words thereof, and those yet to come into existence, and those of the past (which have carried on to this present time), are exemplary of a crass and vulgar person. It is not right for anyone to do, because it mars pleasant and gentle speech and deeply offends, very much like raw and raunchy sewage.

Consider Jesus in all your ways: would He commence to use the f-word in any of His conversations/sermons? Hmm...

[Parthian King]

Curumo! Bravo, sir, bravo! I consider it an honor to dialogue with someone of your calibre, and I mean this most sincerely. Very well put.

[Starkist]

Curumo: Since you started it, I have to ask is it very Christ-like to be condescending, and talk about someone as if they are not present?

Read the links I posted. Paul used what would have been considered crass language, it's in the Bible itself. Respond to my points. You do not do that, you just keep repeating yourself. Neither you nor inkspot have answered my question about what determines what is unacceptable. You just keep repeating that we should refrain from unacceptable speech.

The Bible does not say "here is a list of words that are forbidden". You are taking biblical sources and extrapolating them into legalism, which Paul in fact preached against.

EDIT: I just have to add, you are also being very disingenuous in your dialogue here. You are misrepresenting my point, creating a strawman argument with which to put me down. You accuse me of moral relativism when I believe in nothing of the sort. Just because I dare to question your legalistic stance on the use of language, you write me off as worse than an unbeliever. That's just not nice.

My point all along has been that words in and of themselves are nothing. It is the meaning espoused by the speaker and interpreted by the hearer that determines the value of a word. You on the other hand insist that some words are intrinsically bad, or even evil. My only question, which you have thus far refused to answer, is how do you decide what words are bad and what words are good?

Here is a hypothetical situation to help you out, since you seem to be having trouble answering me. Say you are in church, and the pastor asked you to read in front of the church from Numbers chapter 22. You open the Bible at the pulpit and it is the King James Version. Do you read the words as written, or do you change them, fearing to utter a so-called 'bad word' ?

I have said several times that I do not engage in so-called profanity in my own speech. Yet I have never demanded anyone, especially a nonbeliever, to adhere to my own standards. This is exactly what you are doing. It is the very definition of legalism - using your own judgement to define what is acceptable, and then demanding others follow your lead.

[inkspot]

Oh, no one is demanding anyone adhere to anything here.

I think we are pleading that believers consider what is wholesome when they decide what to say.

No one has suggested there is a list of words that can and can't be said. We have just said that believers should consider what is Christlike when they decide what to say.

Starkist, I understand your point perfectly: you are saying that I could raise a child (foolishly) and substitute the word sh*t for "milk" every time I talk to him, and to his ears, the word "sh*t" would be no more offensive than the word "milk." See, I understand what you say: words derive their offensivenesss or acceptability from the context and the reaction of the one who hears the words.

But isn't it facile to suggest that because some people are raised in the gutter, no one can have any standards as to what qualifies as acceptable speech? I am not asking you to observe MY standards ... I am just asking you, if you are a believer, to consider what builds someone up and what tears them down before you decide what to say.

In fact, even if you aren't a believer, I am asking you to obseve the rules of common courtesy.

If you are saying that because a word means only what you intend it to mean that there can be no rules of common courtesy, then there is little I can say to change your mind. But I feel that your life is bound to be the worse for it, because you've left yourself no right to ask others to treat you with courtesy and respect.

No one is denying that even if you don't use profanity, you can certainly talk in an un-Christlike way and wound someone terribly. In fact, that is why I am saying the standard for beleivers should be the biblical one I mentioned before: what is wholesome and what builds others up. That rules out both profanity and non-profane but rude/mean speech. See?

I understand you, and I agree that if you want to be Christlike, you have to allow Him to speak gentle words through you, and that you can hurt people with non-curse words as badly a you can hurt them with curse words. I agree with you!

What I don't agree with is the idea that because some words mean different things to different people, then in some cases profanity/curse words are acceptable. They may be widely used, the people who say them may not understand what they are implying, but in fact, they are not wholesome and do not encourage others, so they are not acceptable -- not according to me, but according to the Bible.

Also, I read Numbers 22, and I find no profanity in it, so I am not sure what that part was in your post?

No one meant to step on you at all, Starkist. Sorry if I offended you. I certainly don't think anyone has to uphold my standards, which are poor at best. We're all, if we're believers, to uphold Christ's standards, which are perfect.

We are doomed to failure in upholding those standards unless we surrender totally to Christ Himself, who will then live perfectly through us. If anyone has a problem with cussing and you feel badly about it, that's because as a believer cussing is no longer part of your nature -- your old cussing nature was crucified with Christ, and it is just fooling you into thinking it is still alive! Surrender your lips and mouth to the Savior, and let Him speak through you ... He will set you free!

If you're not a believer, and you don't mind cussing one bit, that's fine, but just remember, there are ladies and children around, and they don't deserve to be polluted by your potty mouth. :o

[Johan 72109]

Hehe... As ever, Inkspot is courteous and cordial to everyone. Thank you. :) I think perhaps both sides could maybe pull back and relax a little... Argh, now I'm going to be sounding condescending, which I don't mean to be, as I do the same thing frequently myself... :o I just think some of us are getting a little stressed out about this topic. One side appears to think the other side's legalists, one side appears to think the other side's moral relativists. To be honest, I don't think either is true.
When people think that swearing is okay in certain circumstances, they are certainly not subscribing to the idea that if something feels right, you should do it. To them, they're not swearing 'because it feels right', any more than you could say someone's calling a box a box 'because it feels right'. To them, (including me I guess...) words are used because they fit. You may disagree, but it isn't moral relativism.
Likewise, I don't think disagreeing with swearing is legalism. People believe that passages in the Bible say they should not swear, and while others may disagree on the meaning of those passages, it still doesn't mean their fellows are legalists - they're just following what they believe the Bible tells them to do, and incidentally practicing self-discipline at the same time, which is perfectly valid.
To be honest, I don't think it makes you a Satanist to swear, nor do I think it makes you a Pharisee to think it's wrong. So, in the cosmic scheme of things, maybe this isn't overly important...? :o
Sorry... getting off the podium now... Like I said, this isn't meant to be condescending at all. Heck, you're all my intellectual superiors by quite a way (darn this teenage ignorance :mad: ) so I'm probably, as ever, horribly wrong on a number of counts...

[waterhogboy]

No Johan - you're wrong!!! You're ALWAYS wrong!!!!!!!! ALWAYS!!!!!!! :mad:

[inkspot]

To be honest, I don't think it makes you a Satanist to swear, nor do I think it makes you a Pharisee to think it's wrong. So, in the cosmic scheme of things, maybe this isn't overly important...?
Johan is right! Don't be so mean, WHB.

Anyway: Johan is correct that swearing won't send you to hell, and not swearing won't get you to heaven. Your faith in Christ (or lack of faith) is the key to where you spend eternity.

[Saruman]

I am at present reading through the articles that Starkist has posted on the website, and will respond more later. Although, I must say, it was not my intention to be condescending to you, Starkist; I was merely making an observation concerning your thoughts and posts. Still you continue to look past our arguments when we have answered your thoughts about "unacceptable" and "drawing the line," even giving you Biblical examples.

Firstly (from your website about legalism/cussing):

'I have three things I'd like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a sh*t. What's worse is that you're more upset with the fact that I said sh*t than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.'

The man made a poor assumption concerning the thoughts of his congregation. Who is he to presume to say that they didn't care that 30,000 kids died in the previous night? It was absolutely and totally unnecessary for him to have used the curse word that he did. There was no basis for it. And it would not be legalistic for his congregation to think, "What did he just say????" Why did he have to say it that way? That liberal gentleman could have said, "And [I presume] that most of you don't even care!"

Furthermore, concerning Paul using curse words (I have no idea if the Greek term, as Johan was pointing out earlier, actually was, for those days and times, a curse word to describe feces), I believe that Paul of Tarsus was a man. The Bible may include the words and phrases of others, but it's not necessarily that those "others" were right. In your article, Starkist, there is talk of Saul, first King of Israel, calling his son Jonathan a "stupid son of a whore," of course being a nicer translation of something else. Does this mean because the Bible includes cursing (in said fashion) that it is automatically okay and acceptable?

Secondly, I categorized you in the line of moral relativism because you wrote this:

The problem is that you are using extra-biblical sources, in this case, personal judgement, to qualify a biblical verse. My entire point is that certain words are taken differently by different people, so what is "unwholesome" may be different to different people. It seems to me that you are asking everyone, believers and nonbelievers alike, to subscribe to your standards.

For this reason I said it was pointless in resuming discussion with you. You have convinced yourself that that which is "...'unwholesome' may be different to different people." This clearly implies that you believe it is okay for anybody to speak as they decide and choose, and that there is no wrong way of phrasing something, even if I say I had a good "f---" last night! Does it take rocket science to convey that the use of such words is pointless and offensive?

[Starkist]

I thank you for my response, but you have still failed to answer my one question: What makes a word inherently bad? My claim that certain words may be wholesome to some and unwholesome to others is not making a case for moral relativism. Words are words, it is their meaning in context that determines their wholesomeness. Using your example, why is it ok to read the biblical passage that said "Adam knew his wife" but not ok to paraphrase it as "Adam f***** his wife" ? I don't mean to be crude, but you brought it up. Words are just words. Someone, somewhere, has decided that certain words are profane. In my example, both phrases are euphamisms for the same action. Who decides that one is acceptable and one is unacceptable?

As I said before, the Bible does not give us a list of unacceptable words. Therefore, any determination of the "badness" of certain words is not biblical, but personal judgement. You cannot go to the Word of God and find a passage that says "thou shalt not utter the f-word".

Speaking of biblical passages, you did not answer my challenge about Numbers 22. Inkspot: I specifically referred to the King James Version. In fact, as long as nobody has any qualms about posting Bible verses on this forum, I will do just that.

And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side.
And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again.
And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.
And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.
And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay.
Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times:
unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive. (Numbers 22:21-33 KJV)

Would you read this passage aloud in church?

[inkspot]

See, is it the word "ass" you are thinking is a cuss word? Because it's not, obviously it is a donkey. So, as I said, there is no profanity in Numbers 22? You could of course read this in church if it had some relevance to the service, although many people prefer another version of the Bible that has more modern forms of speech.

I think I said I agree with you that there is no list of words you can say and list of words you can't say -- we are saying that before you say anything, it is best to judge if what you are going to say is wholesome and useful for encouraging others. If it isn't, then it's best to re-phrase.

Just because the connotations of some words change over time doesn't mean that we are children who can't tell when a word is a cuss word. Surely you know very well that the f-word is profane and the idea that "Adam knew his wife" is not.

If you are contending that there are no bad words, only bad listeners, how do you explain the fact that you know it is acceptable to write out "Adam knew his wife" but that you must bleep out "Adam f****d" his wife? The very fact that you know there is a distinction makes the distinction clear. If there were no such thing as profanity, the Bible need not have given us directions to avoid filthy talk.

But we still aren't communicating, I see, on the over-arching issue that for believers, the question should not be, "How much can I cuss without sinning?" but rather, "How can my speech convey the life of Christ?" Jesus said we would have to give an account for every idle word spoken (Matthew 12:36), and that it isn't what we put into our bodies that defiles us, but what comes out of our mouths (Matthew 15:18), and the Scriptures say the power of life and death is in the tongue (Proverbs 18:21).

God is concerned with what we say, and in the Bible He gave us guidelines for our speech: "Watch the way you talk. Let nothing foul or dirty come out of your mouth. Say only what helps, each word a gift" (Ephesians 4:29).

This is the standard you are asking me to define. How do I know a word is unacceptable? If it is foul or dirty, and if it does not help the listener. This applies to cuss words, and to any speech that would harm someone else.

It's too difficult for us as humans to guard every word, all the time. But when we cease our human striving to control our tongues and surrender fully to Christ, then He can speak through us.

Non-believers, of course, do not have to wrestle with any of this. The only reason I can ask them not to cuss around me and my children is that I am a woman deserving of respect, and my children are deserving of protection. If you grant them permission to cuss all they want because you don't believe there is any such thing as profanity, I think you are giving away a little bit of your respectability, but that is just my opinion. :o

[Starkist]

Thank you also for your reply. However, I still ask, what makes a word profane? The only answer you gave was "Surely you agree..." but that in itself is not an answer. What is the standard for separating good words from bad words? A non-cuss word used to harm someone is surely much more unwholesome than a cuss word used to build someone up. Bono once said, on TV no less, "That is f****** brilliant!" Is that not just a bit more wholesome than, say, "That is really stupid!" ? You still make the claim that certain words are inherently bad. Yet you make an exception for the word "ass" used in context in the biblical reference. Is it not possible for the other cuss words to have their own proper context?

The reason I censor the words when I type is twofold: First, because as I have said over and again, I do not use that type of language. Second, because this is a Christian oriented sight, where moderators have closed topics that are simply "too controversial" I fear I would raise their ire if I filled a post with words they have deemed bad.

EDIT: Just two more things to add. First, my point that words are just words is borne out by a scenario in which someone speaks a different language than another. If the hearer does not understand any words the speaker says, they are all nonsense in the end. Regardless of whether or not the words are cuss words. Second, along those same lines, what is your belief regarding the concept of speaking in tongues in church?

[Basilides]

First, because as I have said over and again, I do not use that type of language

Why in the world not?

[TimmyofOz]

a lot of what we say is a cuss word depends on a lot of things. My mom really only had a strick rule on saying "sh*t-*p" (* being u). I have a habit of saying "Jimminy Cricket". When I was in the Navy is swore a lot but not off the ship. As soon as I stepped off the ship I would never swear. It was just the environment. Same as in high school. :o

[Starkist]

Why in the world not?

For the same reason I do not use those horrid little internet acronyms like "lol", "brb" etc. - It is not a part of my personality.

I believe that language is a tool with which to create works of art. All artists have their preferred pigments and colors, while leaving some unused. So it is with words. In none of my posts here am I fighting for my own right to speak as I would. I am merely saying that words alone are neutral, and it is not biblical to judge certain words unacceptable.

If you go back to my first post, I make the point that I do not believe it is best to use so-called bad words in every situation. My point at the beginning was that the usage of language was a cultural and social more, not a black and white moral issue. Like the author of one of the articles I posted said, it may not be polite to pass gas loudly in the presence of others, but it is not necessarily a sin. I put the usage of cuss words in the same catagory as table manners: There are certain social expectations depending on the group of people you are surrounded by, but it is not sinful to break those expectations. Just impolite, rude even.

[Basilides]

For the same reason I do not use those horrid little internet acronyms like "lol", "brb" etc. - It is not a part of my personality.

I don't understand. I mean, I now understand why you do not use little internet acronyms (they are horrid to you), and saying horrid things is apparently not in your personality. I do respect that. But you have been saying all this time that so-called cuss words are not horrid.

Besides, internet acronyms can all be grouped into a reasonable category - namely that they are acronyms. But if your premise is true, that cuss words are no different than other words, what groups them into a category that it is in your personality to avoid? In other words, I can think of a half dozen cuss words (and I'm sure there are many more) and several of them have nothing to do with each other either grammatically, phonetically, or by definition. So how is it that it just so happens that not one of them is in your personality to use on a regular basis? It cannot be because they are "cuss" words, because you have asserted that this category really doesn't exist?

So, what is it that causes these words not to be a part of your personality, and in what category do they belong?

All artists have their preferred pigments and colors, while leaving some unused.

If what they are trying to paint does not contain said pigments, they will not use them. Good point, but not in favor of your argument, I think. The words we use definitely paint a picture of how we view the world.

I am merely saying that words alone are neutral, and it is not biblical to judge certain words unacceptable.

Excepting, of course, internet acronymns, right?

My point at the beginning was that the usage of language was a cultural and social more, not a black and white moral issue.

This is where I think you have gone wrong. You have, very reasonably in this day and age, bought into the idea that if something is a cultural or social more then it has no objective moral basis. But from where do you think social and cultural mores derive?

[inkspot]

I am merely saying that words alone are neutral, and it is not biblical to judge certain words unacceptable.
Jesus said, "Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill" (Matthew 5:22, The Message). It seems to me it is very biblial to judge certain words as unacceptable. If words were neutral, why all the biblical commands to be so careful of our speech? "The simple moral fact is that words kill," according to the Savior.

There are indeed "bad" words, and you know exactly what they are when you say them, I can't tell you a list because there is no list. It is in your heart to know, if you are a follower of Christ, what is acceptable speech and what is not. This is what I have been saying: when you allow Christ to express His life through you, you will find wholesome speech flows naturally from you.

I grant you, and I think I granted it in several previous posts, that words can be used in different ways and mean different things. At the dog show, b*tch is an acceptable term. When arguing with your mama, it's not. So what? The point is that wholesome speech is what is acceptable, and you demonstrate through your own sensibility that you understand what is wholesome and what is profane.

If you actually thought the compliment Bono paid was acceptable speech for children and ladies, you wouldn't have bleeped it, and you wouldn't understand why it needed to be bleeped. If you can sense it, why do you argue so hard that such a distinction doesn't exist?

We are at logger-heads, though, so unless some new insight hits me, I will bow out of this. I am just saying the same thing I have already said, and you are asking the same questions you have already asked, Starkist.

I do understand and agree with you that words are just words, but I do not think this negates the fact there is profanity. If there weren't any profanity, the Bible wouldn't have had to command us not to use it. :)

One of the most important reasons that I argue against using profanity, whether it is sinful or not, is an increasing need for us humans to show repsect to each other. There are too many ways that we demonstrate our disregard already. Deciding that it is okay for everyone to cuss at everyone is a further erosion of the respect we should show each other. I am going to continue in my belief that my family and I, and the people around us, deserve civility and courtesy, and as much as I can, I will insure that we give others the same.

[Johan 72109]

Social and cultural morals are related originally to religion, and more specifically, the rule of God. Extras, however, are added all the time. For example, some people consider it rude to talk to someone with your hands in your pockets. Is that from the Bible? In Saudi Arabia, it is considered polite to belch after a good meal. Is that from God?

Likewise, I think that swearwords are according to social and cultural morals. For example, in the mid nineteenth century, it was considered most innapropriate to use the word 'bottom' in high society in Britain. Now, were a teenager were to use the word 'bottom' they'd sound a bit idiotic. All teenagers now use either the word 'a***', or the word 'bum', and either is accepted, though bum is falling out of use. In teenager circles, a*** is not a swearword (however, I'm starring it out because I know that some people on this site would view it as such). Within a few generations, no one in Britain will consider it a swearword, most likely, just as bottom is no longer considered a swearword. Likewise, the word prat (or pratt) used to be thought of as a swearword, but most people use it freely, and it's quite a polite insult now, (well, if used as a joke. No insult is polite if it is meant).

Thus, I still feel that if a word is socially and morally unacceptable, then it is not helpful to use it, and you are not spreading the love of Jesus. But if a word is accepted, there is nothing wrong with using it.

I agree Inkspot, we do have to make sure everything we say is edifying to Christ. But are most of the things we say? Suppose I discuss a TV programme with a friend. This isn't exactly a Christ-centred conversation, but it isn't sinful either. I'm not shouting out the message of the Gospel from the rooftops, but I'm still acting in a polite and courteous way. If I hobble into a room full of teenaged friends and say 'That kills, I just fell on my a***!' with a self-deprecating laugh, then that isn't sinful. I'm still acting in a polite and courteous way, and I'm making a joke out of the thing. Where is the harm in that?

However, I appreciate that one has to have boundaries, depending upon where one is. I would not do the same thing in a room full of pensioners, since it would be thought of as disrespectful language, and so would not be polite and courteous.

[pacifiquesea]

I have become all things to all people that by all means I might save some.

[inkspot]

"If you lived on the world's terms, the world would love you as one of its own. But since I picked you to live on God's terms and no longer on the world's terms, the world is going to hate you." (John 15:19)

[Saruman]

I have become all things to all people that by all means I might save some.

Unless I have misunderstood your interpretation, does this mean that I can become a homosexual in order to save a homosexual? If you apply this to say that it's okay to cuss if it will be a means to save someone, then I believe you've missed the point of this passage entirely. Didn't you read on in I Corinthians 9? (I Cor 9:27): "But I keep my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

When speaking of "being as a Jew under the law" and "being without law," it is not to say that Paul was compromising his faith in any way. He witnessed to those people from where they were at and where they were coming from in life: if they were Jew, then he preached Christ, doing this by preaching concerning the law (remember how Paul made a public example of Peter, who, out of fear for the Jewish company, refused to eat what the Jews considered to be "unclean"? He had no qualms about correcting his brother in Christ, who indeed had compromised his faith among the Jewish brethren).

So if you are applying this to say that I can go ahead and cuss if it will open a door for me to witness, then - I'm sorry - you're dead wrong. If not, could you explain your position?

[Starkist]

Thank you Johan.

Jesus said, "Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill" (Matthew 5:22, The Message). It seems to me it is very biblial to judge certain words as unacceptable. If words were neutral, why all the biblical commands to be so careful of our speech? "The simple moral fact is that words kill," according to the Savior.

In the King James Version, the same verse reads thus: "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." That "simple fact" quote is nowhere to be found in other translations, just your paraphrase. Anyway, the thing is, words change. As Johan pointed out, what are considered profanity today were not yesterday; what is considered polite today may be profane tomorrow. Words change, but intents and meanings do not.


I do understand and agree with you that words are just words, but I do not think this negates the fact there is profanity. If there weren't any profanity, the Bible wouldn't have had to command us not to use it.

Show me where the Bible says "Thou shalt not use words that have been judged by present society to be profane."


If you actually thought the compliment Bono paid was acceptable speech for children and ladies, you wouldn't have bleeped it, and you wouldn't understand why it needed to be bleeped. If you can sense it, why do you argue so hard that such a distinction doesn't exist?

I bleeped it because this is a family friendly site, remember? I do not think Bono was being respectful of his audience when he spoke. I do not believe he was being polite. However, I would not go as far as to accuse him of sin.

For those who continue to believe I am a moral relativist, let me persuade you that I am not. I am one of the biggest believers in the black and white nature of morality. I believe that if the Bible says something, then that is the way it is. I reject modern notions of feel-good morality, and everything is permissible as long as it doesn't hurt others. That said, I also reject legalistic interpretations of the Bible that take verses out of context, apply them using social and cultural mores that have only grown up in the last hundred or so years, and call it a command of God.

[inkspot]

We are at logger-heads, though, so unless some new insight hits me, I will bow out of this. .
A new insight hit me! Starkist is longing for someone to cite chapter and verse where in the Bible it says "Thou shalt not cuss," so then it will be clear the Bible condemns cussing, and barring that, we can say the Bible allows cussing!

But as believers in Christ, we can't look at it that way, because we are dead to the law and alive to love -- to Christ! The law is there to tell us what our lives would look like if we were perfect, and it is also there to condemn us for failing to keep it. What an awful taskmaster the law is! It tells us what not to do, offers no help for how to avoid doing it, then condemns us for doing it.

Thank God, we are no longer subject to the law. As followers of Jesus Christ, we are dead to the law and alive to grace, so even if I drag up all kinds of commands (thou shalt not) that show cussing to be sinful, those commands mean nothing! No, our task is not to follow the law (an impossible task) but to express the life and spirit of Christ!

So the proscription on profanity that Starkist wants isn't to be found in the Bible, and even if it were, it wouldn't apply to us ... because our newer, better standard is that of allowing the Spirit of God to speak and act through us.

So yes, yes, yes, Starkist, if you find that using [what others deem] profanity expresses the life of Christ in you, then cuss, cuss, cuss. As long as you are allowing the Spirit to speak through you for God's glory, then whatever you say is right; how could it not be? This whole debate, as far as believers go, is off-target. It's not the behavior of speaking profane words that matters to God, but the question of whether you are totally yielded to Christ and saying and doing only what He expreses through you. As long as you are totally desiring of honoring Jesus and allowing Him to express Himelf through you, only good will come out of your mouth.

Glory to Him!

(If you're not following Christ, I won't be able to trust Christ in you for gentle speech, so I will ask you to control your own tongue and not cuss around me or my kids. Thank you.)

[WhiteWitchMeeka]

Oh I hate cursing. I work with a guy that all he does is curse and it annoys me. First off it's not nice and second for a woman to curse is just wrong.

I do curse yes, but I been working on it alot. This fellow does not help matters. He says he is a christian too. I begin to wonder.

[inkspot]

I do curse yes, but I been working on it alot.
I feel like you, I don't like to hear it. But see my previous post ... the thing to do instead of working on it and struggling on your own not to curse, is to surrender totally to Christ and focus totally on being with Him, abiding in Him. The closer you get to Him, the more you will be like Him, and His life will be expressed in you, so you will find that you aren't compelled to say words that don't glorify Him. Don't focus on "I want to stop cussing" but instead focus on "I want Christ to express his life through me." It's a much more pleasant topic, much easier, and will accomplish the same thing. :)

[Basilides]

So yes, yes, yes, Starkist, if you find that using [what others deem] profanity expresses the life of Christ in you, then cuss, cuss, cuss. As long as you are allowing the Spirit to speak through you for God's glory, then whatever you say is right; how could it not be? This whole debate, as far as believers go, is off-target. It's not the behavior of speaking profane words that matters to God, but the question of whether you are totally yielded to Christ and saying and doing only what He expreses through you. As long as you are totally desiring of honoring Jesus and allowing Him to express Himelf through you, only good will come out of your mouth.

Inkspot, that was so cool.

[Starkist]

Again, I am not arguing in favor of speaking profane words. You are building a strawman, debating it, and declaring yourself the winner, when my point is nowhere to be found. I am arguing against the social labeling of certain words as 'bad'. When it comes to surrendering one's life to Christ, choosing what word to use to describe your feelings when you hit your finger with a hammer is much less important than how you live through your actions and your relationships. So many Christians get caught up on one or two words that they forget everything else. The quote earlier about the speaker in the church who compared peoples' reactions to him saying that 30,000 kids died, and him saying a so-called bad word, sum it up quite well. Show me a person living for Christ and giving everything to serve others, and I will not care what word he uses to refer to his posterior.

[FallOfFingolfin]

The use of vile language by anyone, whether poor or rich, is not only distasteful, but it makes that person a part of the dregs of society, a low and base form of life. I am compelled to believe there are other, more appropriate ways for one to express their thoughts and views.

That is a terrible, terrible thing to state. I don't think I've ever been so offended in my life. I'm certain, of course, that nearly everyone on earth, many of whom you have never met, are a low form of life, merely because of their language choice. Yes, now that you mention it, that makes complete sense. Thank you for helping me to see the light. :mad:

[Saruman]

I would never apologize for this statement. People are always bound to be offended, particularly if they feel convicted about something. No, I see no need for foul language of any sort. Don't you believe there are better ways to communicate with someone, other than using unnecessary, foul language?

[Starkist]

Do you not think that you should judge people by the content of their character rather than their particular dialect? Log in your eye, you know.

You really are sounding like a legalist. You have in your mind a list of words that you call "unnecessary" and you put down people who use those words. You state that people should not use those words. That is the essence of legalism.

[Saruman]

Firstly, it is not for me to judge anyone. Secondly, when people use "their particular dialect," as you choose to phrase it, it says a great deal about their person and their character, much like someone pointed out earlier, an image they may not want someone else to have of them.

To call me legalistic is a just a little too off-beat. I believe your definition of the so-called essence of legalism is incorrect. In no way does my putting down of the use of crude words define an example of legalism. If anything, it demonstrates a freedom to increase one's self and to better one's person, to explore a great variety of wholesome speech with which to communicate effectively with and to others. I do not quite follow why you seem to believe that my stance is legalistic. I do, however, fully understand that it is no longer necessary for me to discuss this topic with you. As I have observed, you have already convinced yourself that it is quite well and good for someone to use inappropriate words, and that it all really does not matter one straw, and that anyone can use whatever words they choose, because it all does not matter and it neither encourages nor offends.

Perhaps you are correct. One's actions may speak louder than their words, but their words are examples of the thoughts and passions of their heart. Perhaps I was too harsh on people who use curse words (my mother and father fall into that category, too, but it does not mean that I do not love them - I just believe they can improve themselves. I might add that they recognize this, also, and realize the use of said crude words is unnecessary and - before God - even wrong.) Yet I will not change my view on people who use socially offensive words and choice phrases. It is loathsome to the ear.

In the King James Version, the same verse reads thus: "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." That "simple fact" quote is nowhere to be found in other translations, just your paraphrase. Anyway, the thing is, words change. As Johan pointed out, what are considered profanity today were not yesterday; what is considered polite today may be profane tomorrow.

So I imagine it therefore becomes correct and right to use the f-word nowadays, because you (unless I mistake you) believe these words now become invalid, and refer to something of the past? Just because the Bible does not specifically state a certain word does not mean that Jesus' words therefore suddenly become passé. Socially, people understand that the f-word is used in all sorts of ways to describe crude sexual activity, frustration, or simply to be used in a meaningless conversation, for no particular reason whatever. It is not edifying, and I do not believe Jesus would utter such a crude word.

As I always maintain, you have the right to believe and behave as you wish. You are your own person. If cursing and swearing, and using crude words, is a way for you to witness and to feel good about yourself, then have it your way. Maybe you should pray in this fashion...from the way I understand you, I trust our Lord would approve of such language.

EDIT: I also wish to add one more thought to the matter: aren't we Christians supposed to be separate from this world? Why would we choose to do as the world does (the world heartily approves, and seeks to use, these so-called harmless words)? I will never be able to see it as you do, Starkist. It goes down like a bitter pill; it is something out of place and extraordinary.

I have finished with my thoughts and opinions.

[Starkist]

It is not edifying, and I do not believe Jesus would utter such a crude word.

Look over your own life. How many things do you say and do that are not edifying? How much of your life is spent doing things that other Christians may think is wrong and un-Christian? You are focusing here on one specific issue - language - and acting as if it is the number one issue for Christians, the number one indicator of one's walk with God.

Again, I have no issue with you leaving certain forms of speech out of your vocabulary. I do the same. However, my issue is that you are extrapolating a rule that is not in the Bible and demanding it be applied to people everywhere. You talk like you are better than people who use so-called bad words. You say your mom and dad use them, and could therefore improve themselves. Since you do not use them, are you better than they? I think that is pride alongside legalism.

[inkspot]

Again, I am not arguing in favor of speaking profane words. You are building a strawman, debating it, and declaring yourself the winner
No, I was declaring you the winner: remember, I was saying that cuss words are A-OK for believers as long as they are expressing the life of Christ in you.


I am arguing against the social labeling of certain words as 'bad'.
And I am again agreeing with you: you cannot say a bad word if you are allowing Christ to express His life through you, because He is perfect, so you will be perfect.

You are the winner in this debate, as it regards believers. There are no "bad" words. As the Apostle Paul said (I will use King James because you seem to trust it more than The Message -- despite its being a few centuries removed from us, back when King James and his ilk actually believed there was such a thing as profanity! :) ): "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any" (1 Corinthians 6:12). All things are lawful for believers, even cussing. As long as it is Christ at work in you who says them, those words are just fine.

(But that applies to everything a believer says or does: as long as it is Christ expressing Himself through us, it is good -- if it our own human effort and will, it is bad.)

[Kyle]

Cussing, or swearing as I'd refer to it isn't everyone's cup of tea- but those who have any social awareness know when to use it (that is if they are disposed to use it anyway) e.g I have be known to swear like a trooper - at home, when out with friends etc, but never when I'm on this site or dealing with people at work- it's about boundaries. I know that if I swore on this site it would offend and insult people and I don't want to do that, so therefore I refrain, but among people I know they don't mind.
And anyway, exessive swearing shows and limited vocabulary and mind!

I totally agree with you. i'm constantly around someone with a sailor's mouth; at school, at work, at home, and sometimes even myself. recently, though, i've been trying to lent curse words from my vocabulary. i've definetly seen an improvement, and am now a lot more aware of those who do curse. whenever i hear a foul word i just let it go. i figure Jesus forgives, and so should we, and he would also put his faith into the person to not do it again. but if it gets to the point where it just seems unnecessary, i'll totally just block the conversation from my mind.

[Kate12whisper13]

I think this is disgusting swearing and sometimes people do have to swear but I hate hearing those awful words!
Does anyone agree with me? I have never sweared in my life *Honest*!

[Wendygirljp]

Good question - profanity, many times, is for "shock value" - to appear "adult". Many of the American comedians use it to "shock" their audience. For me, I find that a shame. It means they may not be creative enough to be funny with actual humor.

There are some who find it a release of some sort or another, which again, I do not understand. But then again, I come from a culture where the feelings of others are considered first, usually, before acting - except on the train during commute time.

[Kate12whisper13]

Good question - profanity, many times, is for "shock value" - to appear "adult". Many of the American comedians use it to "shock" their audience. For me, I find that a shame. It means they may not be creative enough to be funny with actual humor.

There are some who find it a release of some sort or another, which again, I do not understand. But then again, I come from a culture where the feelings of others are considered first, usually, before acting - except on the train during commute time.

I know, hosts of shows do swear alot and I think it is becasue they find it funny or they are not cut out for humour so they swear!
I was walking down the street about a month ago and clearly I remember in my head a man walking down the street coming towards me with a baby around fivish who was blabbering along like babies do and he sweared at the baby the most RUDEST words how he talked to much!

[Solya]

A man from up the street can be heard swearing at everything in sight. It doesn't matter what time it is but he just screams and swears at everything that goes wrong. I find it rather pathetic, especially because his oldest son (he's about seven now) tries to be more and more like him, and I just don't like to hear that many swearwords. :rolleyes:

I sometimes use them when I'm really angry or when something surprises/shocks me. They just fly out at times like that, but I do like to keep my swearing down to an absolute minimum. I must also say that I swear a lot more online than in real life, because my parents don't tolerate it like my friends do. :) I don't mind to hear others swear but they shouldn't do it every time they open their mouths...

[LifeMaiden]

I think this is disgusting swearing and sometimes people do have to swear but I hate hearing those awful words!
Does anyone agree with me? I have never sweared in my life *Honest*!


I agree that there is far too much of it. Someone here on the forum has this fantastic signature with a moving 'sign' that is supposed to be God talking, and one of the sentences was

TAKE MY NAME IN VAIN, AND I'LL MAKE RUSH HOUR LONGER.


I almost fell over laughing when I saw that.



But these days vulgarity is just everywhere. You turn on the tv and they allow words they never would have some years ago. What happened to movies where the word 'D**N' considered awful ...remember GONE WITH THE WIND?" the ban against swearing had to be lifted for that word.


I don't need to hear people cursing, although I don't admonish them ( friends and family) for it because I sometimes slip myself. But cursing is done because people want to appear tough, more 'adult,' to shock, as Wendygljp says. And it also is used in music far too much. It degrades women by calling them all kinds of names, and just things in general. And cursing is also done because a person cannot find the right words to say. Better to be silent at the moment than let loose a string of curses!

[Ephinie]

I swear, but not very often... and ONLY when I am speaking to certain people who I know for a fact do not find it offensive. (like broken.)

Until after I came to college, I had never said a single swear word in my entire life. It was basically an unpardonable sin in my house to do so. If you wanted to get someone in trouble, accuse them of swearing. So... I never EVER swore so that whenever I was accused of it, I could honestly say,

"I've never said a swear word in my life!" Of course, my parents never believed me back then. Also, my mom considers words such as, "dang," or "gosh" to be every bit as vile swear words as things such as the "F" word. That complicates matters considerably.

In general, however, I do think that people swear too often. I enjoyed hearing President Bush's little "slip," though, because it was so well-placed.

[anna.the.gentle]

same here, kate. i never did too!

[anna.the.gentle]

well, fine, i do swear! but not that much or my mom would kill me. no 1 in our family ever swears.

[♣Teh Deviant♣]

I've only sworn out loud about 5 times in my whole life, seriously.

Swearing is kinda like smoking and drugs; it's considered cool, I think, mainly cause you are taught not to, and it's rebelling, which is all that I stand for..:D BUT, I just dont swear, cos, I dunno, even typing...it makes me feel guilty. Not cause I was taught that it was bad (god knows I dont listen to adults) but cos..yeah, I have no clue.

I dont take offense from swearing at all, especially if it's for comedic purposes. But when it's used in vulgarity, then I KNOW its wrong; I take offense.

Some of my best friends swear all the time, and its one of their 'thaangs' which make them unique :D I dont take offense.


EDIT: omg me and icemaiden both mentioned vulgarity, yay...taht was..interesting.

[*Cher*]

i always swear. always. come to think of it, i just swore a few minutes ago! i swore to anna! oops... :o

[EveningStar]

There is nothing that you need to say that can't be expressed without profanity, so it offends me deeply when people consider "freedom of speech" or even "freedom of expression" some sort of right to swear.

A marriage counselor can even discuss techniques of intimacy without using profanity. You can go to war and shoot up your enemies to bits and pieces without profanity. God brought light into the dark universe without profanity. It is never necessary.

The Spartan General stopped outside the gates of Athens during a seige and sent in a messenger with this note: "Surrender now. If we break through your walls we will slay all your men and sell your women and children into slavery." The Athenian general replied with one word. And it wasn't S---. It was "IF!" What a great response. And by the way the Athenians won.

I like what Bill Hillcourt used to say. "When you work and play the dirt on the outside is a badge of accomplishment and it washes off easily. But avoid at all costs the dirt on the inside for it does not yield to soap and water. With resolve and prayer, however, it can be made to go away."

[Aslan's Son]

I swear myself, though I'm ashamed of it and hate that I do it. My parents are total hypocrites when they say my siblings and I can't do it, yet I hear them do it every five minutes. But then again, whenever I tell people not to swear (funny how I find it offensive, yet I do it >_<), then that makes me a hypocrite too.

On other things, I HATE it when people say words like "freaking," "crap," "sucks," "darn," and "heck" are swear words. It's mostly from people of the Church of God denomination (no offense to anyone intended; those are just the main people I get hounded by whenever I say those particular words). Those words are NOT swear words, and I get into arguements with people when they tell me those are. I've asked several people their opinions and they all agree with me (I mainly get hounded for it by my art teacher).

And for other things, I've heard of people who think words like "h*ll," "d*mn," and "p*ss" aren't swear words, and I personally find all of them to be ("p*ss" too). It's better just not to say anything at all, so nobody gets offended.

[Yahtzee]

i used to swear but i stopped cause it was stupid no point

[PeterC]

In real life, im insane.I swear more then you can imagine.Seriously.

I don't care what other people say about it, it's what I do.It's a part of my life.

[-Daughter of Eve-]

I swear sometimes....mostly when I get angry.

[♥Green Eyed Goddess♥]

I'm telling te truth, I've never sworn in my life. Ijust don't stand for it. I hate it!!

[Per Sempre]

I think this is disgusting swearing and sometimes people do have to swear but I hate hearing those awful words!
Does anyone agree with me? I have never sweared in my life *Honest*!Bad grammar! It's swore. Nobody uses correct grammar anymore! Anyways,people get mad,they lose their temper,they don't think about what their going to say next. They only think about their anger,it clogs up their brain.

[inkspot]

iMerge with an older thread on this subject. I personally do not like swearing and feel we can all express ourselves without resorting to it, if we apply our brains to the situation.
:)

[pacifiquesea]

I use the word when it fits the situation.
What constitutes swearing? If the intent behind the word is the same, "darn it" is just as bad as its non-Christianized equivalent. If someone who speaks an obscure island dialect says the f-word, are they swearing? I really think it comes from the intent, in which case saying "Poo!" is the same as the s-word.

[PeterC]

Bad grammar! It's swore. Nobody uses correct grammar anymore!
OMG YOU R WRITE OMG WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA![/CRY]

...Anyways.

No matter what you say, people will still do it.

[inkspot]

I use the word when it fits the situation.
What constitutes swearing? If the intent behind the word is the same, "darn it" is just as bad as its non-Christianized equivalent. If someone who speaks an obscure island dialect says the f-word, are they swearing? I really think it comes from the intent, in which case saying "Poo!" is the same as the s-word.
There is a lot to be said for that: I happen to think (like me mum) that even the soft swear words like dang and gosh are still swear words. For me it is an issue of respect. If I have respect for myself, and for those around me, I don't assault our ears with any unseemly words, whether they are kiddie swear words or real swear words.

At least I try not to! I cannot say I am perfectly godly in all I say, but I try.
:)

[Malacandra]

The Spartan General stopped outside the gates of Athens during a seige and sent in a messenger with this note: "Surrender now. If we break through your walls we will slay all your men and sell your women and children into slavery." The Athenian general replied with one word. And it wasn't S---. It was "IF!" What a great response. And by the way the Athenians won.


Nice story, wrong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconic_phrase) attribution. Gotta teach these kids right, y'know.

The Spartans had a way of saying much with few words. Xerxes the Persian had 600,000 men, Leonidas 300 Spartans and some few hundred auxiliaries. On being told to order his men lay down their weapons and surrender, Leonidas retorted "Come and take them!", or in Greek, "Molon labe!" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe).

I'll just **** off now. :D

[office]

i might have sworn once in my life. but i always try not to swear.

[Of Mice and Narnia]

For the person who has come to Christ, who is being formed into his image by the Holy Spirit, the "intent" behind the swear word he/she uses is not the question. The question for the believer is what is acceptable in the Savior's eyes. Since the scripture speaks so much on giving "an account of our words" and "our speech being seasoned with salt", I feel our words have much to do with our testimony for Christ. My foul language was the first thing "to pass away" when the old things became new. And I am so grateful to God for that.

I shouldn't make it difficult for any one to know that I am a new man in Christ.

[echoscot]

I must very ashamedly admit that I have used foul words, with foul intent. I am not proud of it and I find it offensive even coming from my own mouth. Being in the Navy I made it 5 of my 6 years before I used one and everyone stopped and stared at me. I was so ashamed.

That confession out, I have to say that I have observed in myself and others that foul language can become like a disease. If it goes unchecked it will eat up and destroy your entire vocabulary, and that is such a shame because that destroys your ability to communicate effectively.

[♣Teh Deviant♣]

I must very ashamedly admit that I have used foul words, with foul intent. I am not proud of it and I find it offensive even coming from my own mouth. Being in the Navy I made it 5 of my 6 years before I used one and everyone stopped and stared at me. I was so ashamed.

That confession out, I have to say that I have observed in myself and others that foul language can become like a disease. If it goes unchecked it will eat up and destroy your entire vocabulary, and that is such a shame because that destroys your ability to communicate effectively.

Actually, I have a friend who's been doing it for about 7 years, and he's the smartest person I know!

[LifeMaiden]

Yes I've heard amazing streams of cuss words from my mouth in the past and recent past....but I'm very conscious of that now. I just don't want to be vulgar and unladylike or unpolite in public. If I say a curse word under my breath and I am by myself, I don't feel so self-conscious. But I often hear people cursing around me and I feel like that's just vulgar in public, especially around kids, their parents, and elderly people you don't know.

[LifeMaiden]

Nice story, wrong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconic_phrase) attribution. Gotta teach these kids right, y'know.

The Spartans had a way of saying much with few words. Xerxes the Persian had 600,000 men, Leonidas 300 Spartans and some few hundred auxiliaries. On being told to order his men lay down their weapons and surrender, Leonidas retorted "Come and take them!", or in Greek, "Molon labe!" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe).

I'll just **** off now. :D




HAHAHAAAA!! That last line was great!! And I liked reading about the laconic phase.


Oh ****! I have to go to sleep or I won't be able to wake up at 9am!!!!

[Malacandra]

HAHAHAAAA!! That last line was great!! And I liked reading about the laconic phase.


Oh ****! I have to go to sleep or I won't be able to wake up at 9am!!!!

I may have confused you. *My* **** stood for "push". (Of course, yours may have stood for "dear".) :D

[echoscot]

Actually, I have a friend who's been doing it for about 7 years, and he's the smartest person I know!


I didn't say anything about being smart or not, what I said was that it eats up your vocabulary. Certain words then become adjectives, nouns and every other part of speech. The f word in particular eventually becomes used to describe everything good or bad.